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So if they've got air support now, I guess we don't have to worry about a No Fly Zone?
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Mar 15, 2011 16:00
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The rather depends of the definition of "warship" and "air force". I heard reports that oil tankers and cargo vessels were being used as artillery platforms, so maybe that's what they've destroyed.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:01
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Brega has been totally retaken by Gaddafi forces, sounds like the rebels are making a last stand in Ajdabiyah. After that it's 90 miles to Benghazi.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:04
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Al-Saqr posted:SAUDI ARABIA UPDATE:
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Mar 15, 2011 16:05
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I hope the EU likes having their own North Korea on the other side of the Med, because that's the way it's going.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:18
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Brown Moses posted:I hope the EU likes having their own North Korea on the other side of the Med, because that's the way it's going.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:29
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Meanwhile in New York the UN is debating what sanctions they should place on Libya. They haven't said what they want, just that they want sanctions.Yaos posted:It would be more like Iraq. Despite defeating the military years ago there's still plenty of fighting going on in Iraq. The military hasn't been really been defeated though - they're spread out, but with the current regime still in charge, Gaddafi will begin rebuilding his forces. He won't be able to get western weaponry, but as long as he's selling oil he'll be able to find someone to supply him with a whole bunch of new toys. I've been wondering for awhile now, does anyone know why Germany is so against the NFZ in Libya? My understanding is that they won't be participating in it directly, it will be mostly English, French and US forces enforcing it. I can understand Russia not being on board, but what does Germany have to lose, or hope to achieve? Narmi fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 16:36
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Sounds like there is a massacre happening in Bahrain. There are reports of doctors at hospitals being machine gunned and pictures of people with blown-apart heads.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:45
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Narmi posted:Meanwhile in New York the UN is debating what sanctions they should place on Libya. They haven't said what they want, just that they want sanctions.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:48
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Brown Moses posted:The rather depends of the definition of "warship" and "air force". I heard reports that oil tankers and cargo vessels were being used as artillery platforms, so maybe that's what they've destroyed. It's also not sure how accurate the report is. Air forces generally overestimate the effectiveness of their strikes, because it's hard to assess correctly from a fast moving aircraft how much damage the strike did. But regardless of what the results were, being capable of doing such attacks is already something that Gaddafi can hardly ignore. Bet he'd give his right testicle to blow those fighters onto their airstrip.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:51
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Recent video from Syria, having trouble finding much context for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFmM2o5OrwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNeFs0nQXo0
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Mar 15, 2011 16:53
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Slantedfloors posted:Knowing the UN, the totality of their proposed sanctions against Ghadaffi will be officially declaring him a "poopy-head". And it will get voted down. There are current UN sanctions already in place that have frozen tens of billions in assets and prevented him and his family from travelling or obtaining more weapons. The debate is on more sanctions.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:55
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Twitter is going crazy with reports of the military massacring protesters in Bahrain. Some very nsfw video, one from the street and one from a hospital: http://twitpic.com/49q9o7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tkG7jkUYTg&feature=youtu.be&oref=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitterfall.com%2F&has_verified=1 There are reports that the military is entering hospitals and killing doctors, but nothing has been verified as far as I know. It probably goes without saying, but this is all very sad.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:01
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what would this mean for Saudi Arabia? what has Obama said about Saudi Arabia and Bahrain? since we're already "proven" through Iraq/Afghanistan that we're aggressively promoting democracy. Is the White House gonna jam its finger into its ears and yell LA LA LA LA?
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Mar 15, 2011 17:04
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the walkin dude posted:what would this mean for Saudi Arabia? The US Government didn't criticize them when their nationals flew a couple planes into buildings in New York, we sure as gently caress aren't going to criticize them over brutalizing their own people/people of the GCC. That's dangerous for the bottom line.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:06
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Brown Moses posted:I hope the EU likes having their own North Korea on the other side of the Med, because that's the way it's going. I think that's a very apt comparison. I'm seriously angry at our European leaders, they're such loving cowards. The benefits of toppling the Qaddafi regime suddenly and leaving just as suddenly with no complications are so many. Friendship with a democratic Libya, if you present it correctly also friendship with Egypt, Tunisia probably and there you have a possible resolution to an immigration problem that is ravaging France/Italy/Greece/Spain and consequently everyone else. Also local ties (seriously north africa is so close) that can easily extend to economic development, work in rebuilding Libya for people, work in oil for people, oil for Europe, democracy leading to a more free economy bringing growth in North Africa that will trigger much needed growth to weak European economies that will be able to get into the game since they helped. gently caress, it's not that hard, and so many countries have invested so much money in weapons that they NEVER use, well poo poo here's an opportunity to use their toys for once for a good reason and the cowards are afraid of intervening like this is Iraq or something. They don't have to stay there or make sure that anything happens, just take out the regime and I'm absolutely certain that Libyans will be grateful and will become allies of Europe instead of a North Korea-like crazy bloodthirsty state threatening EU stability all the time.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:07
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The Danish foreign minister has just pledged to send four Danish F16s to support the latter stages of a NFZ. I'm wondering if it's just a way to score cheap political points, since, at this point, there doesn't seem to be much hope of it happening before it's too late.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:26
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I haven't seen anything about this. It's Dutch so you'll have to take my word for the translation. "Gaddafi feels betrayed by his European Friends". Apparently he thinks "mister Sarkozy has a mental illness" and he doesn't want to supply oil to Europe any more until the 'opposition of those countries comes into power' whatever the gently caress that means. And the rest is just standard Al-Qaeda and IT IS ALL LIES talk.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:45
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Al-Arabiya is apparently reporting that Qatari troops have also entered Bahrain.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:47
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the walkin dude posted:what would this mean for Saudi Arabia? The White House is openly in support of Bahrain's monarchy. laughterhouse five fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 17:51
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Well if these dictators have learned anything it is that foreign soldiers won't defect if they aren't shooting at their own people.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:51
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Slantedfloors posted:Knowing the UN, the totality of their proposed sanctions against Ghadaffi will be officially declaring him a "poopy-head". And it will get voted down. Xandu posted:There are current UN sanctions already in place that have frozen tens of billions in assets and prevented him and his family from travelling or obtaining more weapons. The debate is on more sanctions. Sorry, should have been more clear - I meant extra sanction in addition to the ones already in place. For example, Lawrence Cannon (Canada's Foreign Minister), had this to say: quote:Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon took a cautious approach Monday as some of Canada's allies demanded tough military action to halt the advances against rebels by Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's forces. source Notice how the emphasis is placed on "stronger" sanctions - this is pretty much the line countris like Germany and Russia and every other one except France and Britain have adopted. I'm not sure what else they can do to Libya before the people themselves start to suffer though - are they going to block all imports (Libya is a huge importer of food to meet its needs), ban investments in Libyan oil, what exactly?
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Mar 15, 2011 18:19
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Oh, and as a Canadian, I would like to clarify that any Canadian contributions to a NFZ would be: - Launching outdated Attack Helicopters from a very small warship - Cheering on France and the UK from a nearby Anti-Submarine Warfare Frigate - Taking a shot every time a Rafale/Eurofighter takes down an enemy Aircraft or Missile Installation
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Mar 15, 2011 18:23
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More odd and possibly false reports:quote:Further reports from the twitter community. @LibyanDictator tweets Confirmed: Gordabiya military base in Sirte bombed by Libyan people’s air force quote:News in the twitter community that there are confirmed reports of explosions and gunfire in Tripoli. Some are saying that the source is from within Baab Al Aziziyah, others saying that they are celebratory due to the retaking of Brega and moving closer to Benghazi
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Mar 15, 2011 18:54
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ChaosSamusX posted:Oh, and as a Canadian, I would like to clarify that any Canadian contributions to a NFZ would be: I thought Canada had a wing of "gently used" F-16s from the 80s?
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Mar 15, 2011 18:58
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Some other unconfirmed news coming out of Libya:quote:Almanara Media confirms the following: Baab Al Aziziyah is Gaddafi's main base in Tripoli, and probably where he's hiding at the moment.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:16
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Forgive me if I'm not too optimistic about the accuracy of the feats of the Free Libyan Air Force. That said, if true, this would make a great Will Smith movie.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:18
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It makes me wonder why they are being used now, instead of before. Is it part of some grand strategy, or an act of desperation?
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Mar 15, 2011 19:20
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Brown Moses posted:It makes me wonder why they are being used now, instead of before. Is it part of some grand strategy, or an act of desperation? Fuel limitations? Lack of experienced maintenance? Fear of having the few planes you do have shot down by Qaddafi?
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Mar 15, 2011 19:23
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el samayo grande posted:I thought Canada had a wing of "gently used" F-16s from the 80s? We have some CF-18s, and they were used in the 90s, but I'm not sure how they're doing now. There was a plan by the Conservatives to buy some new F-35s, but that's most likely going to fall through since it'll cost about $35 billion to purchase and maintain, which is significantly more than we were initially told they would cost. Also, I just looked it up and apparently the F-35s isn't suited for patrolling the Arctic, which is a pretty big issue in Canadian Sovereignty in the north.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:24
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Patter Song posted:Fuel limitations? Lack of experienced maintenance? Fear of having the few planes you do have shot down by Qaddafi? Maybe the rebels have purposely retreated to stretch Gaddafi's supply lines, and make them more vunerable? If it's true then who knows what else the rebels have been holding back.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:26
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Brown Moses posted:It makes me wonder why they are being used now, instead of before. Is it part of some grand strategy, or an act of desperation?
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Mar 15, 2011 19:26
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el samayo grande posted:I thought Canada had a wing of "gently used" F-16s from the 80s? We have CF-18's actually. Regardless, I highly doubt we would be able to do anything with them without an Aircraft Carrier (and we haven't had one for decades).
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Mar 15, 2011 19:27
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Brown Moses posted:It makes me wonder why they are being used now, instead of before. Is it part of some grand strategy, or an act of desperation? Two thoughts: 1) They have some really impressive people behind the scenes that is directing their movements and are exposing Ghaddafi's throat and ego, and/or... 2) They have some heavy financial backing that so far has remained hidden, possibly from someone sympathetic or in a liberated country. In either case, we discounted the rebels far, far too readily. These guys are not loving around.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:33
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An Arabic speaking poster on the LibyaFeb17.com forums is saying a couple of Libyan websites have "confirmed" that's Gaddafi's resident in Tripoli has been hit by an airstrike.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:34
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This seems awfully out of left-field. I wonder whats going on? Do we even know what aircraft these FLAF "Fighter Jets" are? Some of the MiG-23s the Rebels captured early on? Defected Su-22s or Mirages? Probably not the Mirages since Gaddafi forces only had one or two left. Very interesting development, and while I'd like for it to be mostly true, I'm rather skeptical.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:39
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quote:BREAKING from Almanara Media The huge fire that has erupted inside Baab Al Aziziyah was due to a martyr mission using a fighter jet to crash into the compound
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Mar 15, 2011 19:39
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Brown Moses posted:It makes me wonder why they are being used now, instead of before. Is it part of some grand strategy, or an act of desperation? Or maybe it's just made up, either by the regime who want to create the impression a no-fly zone is not needed or by someone on Twitter who has wants to create some good news for the rebellion. Sinking two warships with an airstrike is extremely hard, especially for an outdated air force like the Libyan one. It's the same outcome as the 'battle' with the US navy in 1986 who had a vastly more powerful airforce and navy.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:39
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Brown Moses posted:An Arabic speaking poster on the LibyaFeb17.com forums is saying a couple of Libyan websites have "confirmed" that's Gaddafi's resident in Tripoli has been hit by an airstrike. That's really impressive. They flew from Benghazi to Tripoli (and back?) without getting shot down and successfully struck the highest-value enemy target. Mashallah, Free Libyan Air Force.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:39
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:Two thoughts: Anybody know where they got their planes from and how many there are? It seems odd that there's been no mention of them until they suddenly destroy some warships and bomb Tripoli.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:39
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