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Gomi Pile posted:only three hodge trophys? sanderson is a chump. Actually he has 4 Edit- I'm wrong he has 4 outstanding wrestler awards. Maybe this is why I can't crush an apple with one hand like a real man. Mardragon fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 13:28
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imtheism posted:I train with a dude named Trevor Smith, who went to Iowa State, and was a training partner of Cael Sanderson. He's a super nice guy, strong as a gorilla, weighs 225 of pure muscle and has hips like a 145 lber, hits moves that don't even exist, and is absolutely impossible to get off the bottom on. I've trained with a couple of OK state wrestlers and this is basically my experience. The worst was a lighter guy that decided he needed a good guard, so he worked that for awhile, becoming invincible.
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Mar 15, 2011 15:47
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Maybe wrestlers should stop ruining everyone's good time in our gay pajamas manhugging sport.
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Mar 15, 2011 16:28
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Wrestlers ruin everything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxK9NTC4Xhg (NWS if your boss doesn't like bullies being thrown in the air)
Pooned fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 16:44
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I was checking the lineage of my head instructor recently just because I was curious. So he received his Blackbelt from Fabio Holanda, who received his from "Brazillian Top Team". I'm guessing this means he got it from Busta or Ze Sperry or both?
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Mar 15, 2011 17:40
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I'm pretty sure Holanda got his black belt from Busta.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:45
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Mardragon posted:Actually he has 4 Stephen Neal won it Sanderson's freshman year. He was a returning champion who also won freestyle worlds. He was so athletic that after he retired from wrestling he was invited to the Patriot's training camp even though he hadn't played football since High School. He's now a pro bowl caliber guard and has been their starter for years.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:56
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but seriously, sanderson is like america's karelin. why have i never heard of him?
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Mar 15, 2011 18:13
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Gomi Pile posted:but seriously, sanderson is like america's karelin. why have i never heard of him? Because you are Canadian and more people watch that weird rear end Dogshow they have every year than wrestling. A sad state of affairs.
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Mar 15, 2011 18:15
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Thoguh posted:Stephen Neal won it Sanderson's freshman year. He was a returning champion who also won freestyle worlds. He was so athletic that after he retired from wrestling he was invited to the Patriot's training camp even though he hadn't played football since High School. He's now a pro bowl caliber guard and has been their starter for years. he also beat Lesnar. and Ricky Williams in HS... drat they're like 70 pounds apart now. I'd love to see his trophy case: "ya here is my best wrestler in the country trophy, my 3 super bowl rings, you know just general stuff."
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Mar 15, 2011 19:04
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Xguard86 posted:he also beat Lesnar. Lesnar was a decent wrestler who was just huge and strong as hell. He was able to dominate pretty much everybody because there were very few guys who could compete against his strength. There were a few smaller guys, like Wes Hand from Iowa, that were sufficently better at wrestling than Lesnar that they split their matches. But a guy like Neal who was both an incredibly good wrestler and had sufficent strength to at least hold his own against Lesnar would beat him every time. It's just that there were very few guys who were strong enough to overcome Lesnar's sheer strength.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:16
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can I C/P this every time Brock's wrestling credentials come up?
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Mar 15, 2011 19:18
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Why would his strength and size be any less of an asset in MMA wrestling?
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Mar 15, 2011 19:23
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Thermos H Christ posted:Why would his strength and size be any less of an asset in MMA wrestling? Because he can get punched and submitted. Not a jab at Lesnar but there are areas of mma that he just won't be as good at and a technical deficiency means his physical assets will be harder to put to use.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:29
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more along the lines of TUF where the debate was that he would be a lovely coach because 'be a genetic freak" is not a teachable skill. My POV is that even if Lesnar was technique wizard, he will be a lovely coach because he is an introverted person with no real interest in any kind of team.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:43
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Xguard86 posted:more along the lines of TUF where the debate was that he would be a lovely coach because 'be a genetic freak" is not a teachable skill. And as has been pointed out multiple times, how good a coach Brock is will be more or less irrelevant because he's bringing in excellent coaches that are going to do all the actual coaching
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Mar 15, 2011 19:46
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First couple Weight Classes, I'm extra busy today, will finish this evening or tomorrow morning. My apologies. 125 lbs - A weight that is pretty wide open, the guys at the top are pretty established and one of which has a gimmick that is pretty hard to train against. I'd pretty confident you will see the #2 or #3 seed out of the bottom, who knows about the top of the bracket. #1 Anthony Robles Arizona State, Sr. - So we'll start with the most interesting story, and one that will sweep over the country if he wins. Anthony Robles is a one-legged wrestler, and a two time All-American. He has the upper body of a 185 lbs wrestler, which he uses to control opponents because of his inability to reliably stand. His style is unique to say the least, he hasn't lost this year, and is a tremendous human interest story. He presents a unique challenge to any of his opponents because of his unconventional style. #2 Matt McDonough, Iowa, Soph. - Last year's NCAA champion, very fast and solid defense, he in the finals he beat the guy who beat Anthony Robles out of the winner's bracket. I'm not sure if he's wrestled Robles, but I don't believe so. #3 Brandon Precin, Northwestern, RS Sr. - Redshirted last year, previously he was a 2 time all-american defeating...Anthony Robles on the way to 3rd place in the 2009 championships. He has wrestled McDonough 3 times this year, going 1-2, McDonough was the victor in the last match in the finals of the Big Ten Tournament. 133 lbs - The number one seed has beaten the number 2 seed but the number 3 seed is last years NCAA runner up. It's a pretty top heavy class but the #3 and #4 seeds haven't wrestled either of the 1 or 2 seeds yet, so if this goes chalk it could be very interesting. #1 Jordan Oliver, Oklahoma State, Soph. - Was the top recruit in the country 3 years ago, 4th place at last years NCAA's. Is lightening quick with really slick takedowns, fun to watch wrestle. #2 Andrew Hochstrasser, Boise State, RS Sr. - Old, very old, was a freshman in 2005, last year took a medical redshirt and the year before he was an All-American. Oliver soundly lost to Oliver in the last dual meet of the season. #3 Andrew Long, Penn State, Soph. - Followed Cael Sanderson to Penn State this year after wrestling for Iowa State last year where he was the runner up at 125 lbs. Lost in a big 10 dual meet, hasn't faced either Oliver or Hochstrasser.
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Mar 15, 2011 20:21
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Xguard86 posted:more along the lines of TUF where the debate was that he would be a lovely coach because 'be a genetic freak" is not a teachable skill. you can't teach genetics, but you can teach someone how to bust their rear end in the weight room.
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Mar 15, 2011 20:43
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"weightlifting" is more useful for MMA than "brazilian jiu-jitsu" as evidenced by lesnar/mir II.
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Mar 15, 2011 20:46
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Gomi Pile posted:"weightlifting" is more useful for MMA than "brazilian jiu-jitsu" as evidenced by lesnar/mir II. Didn't Mir actually weight-train for like the first time in his life for that fight, bulking up to a little over 165? or was that for his fight with Carwin? EDIT fatfingers, of course I really meant 265 fawker fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 20:53
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fawker posted:Didn't Mir actually weight-train for like the first time in his life for that fight, bulking up to a little over 165? or was that for his fight with Carwin? Over 165??  Surely he must have been on roids.
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Mar 15, 2011 20:57
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Gomi Pile posted:"weightlifting" is more useful for MMA than "brazilian jiu-jitsu" as evidenced by lesnar/mir II. counterpoint: "brazilian jiu-jitsu" is more useful for mma than "weightlifting" as evidenced by Lesnar/Mir II. Where Frank Mir spent his time gaining 30 pounds, and Brock spent it learning how to pin Mr in half-guard and beat him into a coma.
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Mar 15, 2011 21:06
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Mardragon posted:#1 Anthony Robles Arizona State, Sr. - So we'll start with the most interesting story, and one that will sweep over the country if he wins. Anthony Robles is a one-legged wrestler, and a two time All-American. He has the upper body of a 185 lbs wrestler, which he uses to control opponents because of his inability to reliably stand. His style is unique to say the least, he hasn't lost this year, and is a tremendous human interest story. He presents a unique challenge to any of his opponents because of his unconventional style. Wow, that's awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlbIrQALq8Q 
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Mar 15, 2011 21:11
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The one legged wrestler is super cool and I just had like 3 coworkers crowd around my desk to watch one of his matches. Also, I have started keeping a training journal, after insisting I did not need it for years. I now highly recommend it, my memory and execution of new moves has really shot up since I started keeping notes. Usually, I really don't even have to reference my notebook, writing it down just crystallizes the ideas in my mind. I recommend it to everyone. VVVV I put my book and pen in a bag hanging on my gi's coathanger, so they always come together. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Mar 15, 2011 |
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Mar 15, 2011 21:51
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Yeah that's one of those things that seems like a good idea every time I see somebody with one but then never ends up making the trip to the gym, probably should. And thanks for the wrestling write-ups Mardragon, Robles' pin attempts are the coolest thing.
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Mar 15, 2011 21:56
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fawker posted:Didn't Mir actually weight-train for like the first time in his life for that fight, bulking up to a little over 165? or was that for his fight with Carwin? I think it was the Kongo fight where he seriously weight trained for it.
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Mar 15, 2011 22:23
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Xguard86 posted:counterpoint: "brazilian jiu-jitsu" is more useful for mma than "weightlifting" as evidenced by Lesnar/Mir II. Where Frank Mir spent his time gaining 30 pounds, and Brock spent it learning how to pin Mr in half-guard and beat him into a coma.
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Mar 16, 2011 00:11
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There is some speculation that they stacked the one side of the 125 bracket and ranked Robles #1 over the returning NCAA champion to give a clear shot for Robles for ESPN. Edit - apple crushing power! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QWp7AhK3E Mardragon fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 16, 2011 |
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Mar 16, 2011 01:03
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 Talk about meat hooks. I have big hands, but those are just silly.
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Mar 16, 2011 02:26
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Mardragon posted:There is some speculation that they stacked the one side of the 125 bracket and ranked Robles #1 over the returning NCAA champion to give a clear shot for Robles for ESPN. That's just because Iowa fans are horrible people that are incapable of believing that, just maybe, the seeding committee didn't think their guy deserved the #1 spot. So it has to be a conspiracy...
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Mar 16, 2011 02:29
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Mardragon posted:There is some speculation that they stacked the one side of the 125 bracket and ranked Robles #1 over the returning NCAA champion to give a clear shot for Robles for ESPN. How is seeding determined? I take it it's not just by record?
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Mar 16, 2011 07:41
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dokomoy posted:How is seeding determined? I take it it's not just by record? There's a committee made up of shadow people and illuminati that meets to determine seeding and at large bids. Actually I believe it's made up of some ex-coaches and AD's, similar to the basketball, each conference has a number of automatic qualifiers plus some at large bids. http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/2011-02-23/ncaa-qualifier-allocations-announced There's one weight class where the top 3 seeds are all undefeated, so I have no idea how you work out which one of them should be ranked what, probably the coaches poll or intermat rankings. In terms of the 125 rankings, Robles is undefeated, McDonough has one loss that he has avenged twice. But McDonough is the returning champion in that weight class and frankly wrestled a much harder schedule than Robles. That aside, the further question is why is Precin ranked 3 and not 4? The #4 seed James Nicholson is 31-0. Precin has a couple wins over Robles...just saying. Also they are using the same logic differently in the same weight class, if current record is more important than past performance then the seeding should be Robles, Nicholson, McDonough, Precin. But it seems like they are using half record and half performance in selective cases within that weight to set up a possible outcome that ESPN would eat up. Mardragon fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Mar 16, 2011 |
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Mar 16, 2011 16:01
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Mardragon posted:Also they are using the same logic differently in the same weight class, if current record is more important than past performance then the seeding should be Robles, Nicholson, McDonough, Precin. But it seems like they are using half record and half performance in selective cases within that weight to set up a possible outcome that ESPN would eat up. Given how few people outside the wrestling community care about the sport a little fan-friendly exposure is not a bad thing, especially when we're talking about 4 essentially equal guys at the top having their seeding just messed with a bit.
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Mar 16, 2011 16:24
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ya seeding kind of loses meaning when the top 3 guys have perfect records. I cannot imagine being so good that I am competing at the top of a sport and have still not lost. Not dropped one match because my dog died, or felt sick and lost to another super good dude. It's just crazy. ...Then I think about doing that with one leg and my head spins.
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Mar 16, 2011 17:33
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Adding to the NCAA Tournament talk, the entire tournament will be streamed live on ESPN3. The schedule is below, all times Eastern. Thursday, March 17 (Round 1) 11 a.m. Thursday, March 17 (Round 2) 6:30 p.m Friday, March 18 (Quarterfinals) 10:30 a.m. - Also will be broadcast on ESPNU Friday, March 18 (Semifinals) 7 p.m. - Also will be broadcast on ESPNU Saturday, March 19 (Medal Round) 11 a.m. - Also will be broadcast on ESPNU Saturday, March 19 (Finals) 7:30 p.m. - Also will be broadcast on ESPN I'm not sure if they will be including the conselations, or only the championship brackets. Note that the Quarterfinals and on will be on ESPNU as well, and the finals will be on ESPN on Saturday night.
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Mar 16, 2011 18:18
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Since I'm an Iowa State fan, here's my take on the five guys we qualified Chris Drouin (141) - A former All-American at Arizona State, he transfered to ISU this year after a coaching change at ASU. He was doing pretty well until he got a concusion back in January and missed almost the entire dual season. Since coming back he has been decent, but nowhere near as good. He actually did pretty badly at the Big XII championships but was given a wild card berth. He drew the #9 seed for the first round. It's possible he'll catch fire and AA, but it is more likely he'll go 1-2 or 2-2 and not even make the round of 12. Stretch for Drioun is low level AA. Sucks because before the injury he was looking like a lock for Round of 12 at least. Jon Reader (174) - Iowa State's only #1 seed, he is undefeated and very rarely been challanged this year. He has majored decisioned a number of ranked guys and has a win over another one of the top 4 seeds. He's AA'd twice but was upset in the first round last year. Reader is on a mission and I think he'll be the National Champion this year. Barring an injury, I can't see him getting lower thaan 3rd at worst. Richard Shafer (184) - A walk-on who got shoved into the line-up this year after the fallout from Cael Sanderson leaving for Penn State, he isn't exactly a world-beater, but has improved greatly throughout the season and beat a ranked guy to get his spot in Philly. He got extremely lucky with the draw and has a 22-14 guy from Arizona State in the first round, a very winnable match. I see him going 0-2 or 1-2 and not placing, but hopefully scoring a few team points. Stretch for Shafer is to go 2-2 Jerome Ward (197) - Seeded 11th. Jerome is the most frusterating wrestler in the world to watch. He'll beat a top ranked guy one night and then lose to a scrub the next. Also, his matches almost all end up being 3-1 nailbiters no matter who he's up against. I don't really have a prediction for Jerome because he could go 0-2 just as easily as he could end up being an AA. All I know is he'll cause coach Jackson to have a stroke before the tournament is over. Kyle Simonson (285) - Unseeded, Simonson is small for a heavyweight and that costs him a lot of matches. He drew the #7 seeded guy from Iowa in the first round. Rasing won by 1 point when they wrestled at the begining of December, but both have improved greatly since then. Also, Simonson injured his back about a month ago so I'm not sure how healthy he'll be. I predict he'll go 1-2 or 2-2. As a stretch he might reach the round of 12 is he gets lucky with his pairings. Iowa State was in position to be top 10 this year, but then our second best wrestler injured his elbow right before the tournament, and his back-up (who is no slouch) sprained his ankle very badly at the Big 12s. So losing two AA caliber guys at 165 killed our chances. So all our hopes just ride on Reader making it to the top of the podium. Next year will be much better as the effects of Cael Sanderson leaving (and our subsequent loss of 1.5 recruiting classes) begin to deminish.
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Mar 16, 2011 18:40
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141 lbs. - Five out of the top 6 seeds are from the Big 10, and the number one seed has beaten each of the other Big Ten guys two or more times, and also the number 3 seed once. But he didn't dominate them every time, there were some close calls. The bottom of the bracket is wide open, anyone and everyone could come out to the finals. #1 Kellen Russell, Michigan, RS Jr. - An All-American two years ago who has beaten the competition already this year. With wins over the next 5 seeded wrestlers he is the unquestionable 1 seed. Has a very good top game, which has led him to plenty of back points and pins this year. #2 Michael Thorn, Minnesota, RS Sr. - An All-American last year, his father was a former All-American as well, he trains jiu-jitsu, I posted a video of him pulling guard in a wrestling match last year, I don't really have time to find it but he pulled guard at the end of the period to prevent the other guy getting points. #5 Montell Marion, Iowa, Junior - Last year he came into the tournament in the same place, a mid-seed who hadn't even started for Iowa the whole season. He had an unbelievable tournament, and was the runner-up in a hard fought final. He will get a shot at Kellen Russell early, let's see if he's as tournament savvy as he was last year. 145 lbs. - I hate the way they seeded this bracket, ideally they would have kept the two former champions on different sides of the bracket but they didn't and so the match-up everyone wants to see is in the semi's. #1 Darrion Caldwell, NC State, RS Senior - A hero of the people, sort of like Flash Gordon but a little faster. Two years ago we were forced to watch montage after montage about Iowa's Brent Metcalf and how amazing he was and what a hard worker. In typical ironic fashion the person that ESPN did a montage on lost in the finals. Darrion Caldwell not only beat Brent Metcalf, he destroyed him, dominated the match from start to finish and as the match ended he did a backflip and that little punk Metcalf pushed him out of the air. But Caldwell was a hero to everyone (except Iowa fans), unfortunately he had shoulder surgery last year so we never got to see him beat Metcalf last year but he's back this year. #4 Kyle Dake, Cornell, Soph. - Last year's NCAA champion at 141 lbs. Has struggled at times this season but he's a fantastic scrambler with really solid defense, it's a shame he's not in the bottom bracket but cest la vie. The bottom bracket - Frank Molinaro from Penn State and Kevin LeValley are solid wrestlers but not without holes in their game, I wouldn't be shocked if the bottom bracket was one big upset filled mess, which would be awesome. 157 lbs. -None of the top 3 seeds have faced each other, and all 3 are undefeated, the number 4 seed is a former NCAA runner up, one of the most exciting weight classes to watch. #1 Adam Hall, Boise State, RS Sr. - An All-American last year, was #2 going into the tournament but lost early and battled his way back to third place. #2 Steve Fittery, American, Junior - A former Division II two time runner up, Fittery won the very tough Midlands tournament this year by winning all 5 matches with bonus point wins in every match. #3 David Taylor, Penn State, RS Freshman - The top rated recruit in the country last year so far has not failed to impress, a Big 10 champion this year and a 8 time state champion in Ohio for high school (I don't know how that works, maybe you can compete from middle school?) #4 Bubba Jenkins, Arizona State, RS Sr. - Bubba was kicked out of high school for getting a blow-job in the parking lot, when he was recruited by Penn State he wrestled Joe Paterno. In his first two years wrestling at Penn State he was an NCAA runner up and the overall #2 seed. Things Bubba likes - Speed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ORoo6xMQcg and scoring points early. Things Bubba doesn't like - endurance and hard work. A superior athlete with a little bit of a work ethic problem in the past he is looking to dial it up for his senior season. 165 lbs. - Two former champions on different sides of the bracket, hopefully they are both healthy and able to make it to the finals, they met in the finals of the Midlands tournament with Burroughs winning. #1 Jordan Burroughs, Nebraska, RS Sr. - The "Unstoppable Force" won the most loaded bracket in the NCAA's two years ago, beating at least one former champion. Burroughs had a season ending injury last year but is back this year. He is an explosive scorer with probably the fastest single leg I've ever seen. #2 Andrew Howe, Wisconsin, Junior - The "Immovable Object" is last year's champion and was the runner up two years ago as a freshman. Howe is a grinder, a defensive nightmare that wears opponents down with his defense. He has opened up the offense a little more this year but he is also perfectly fine winning a match 2-1. Had a knee injury in mid January and his only other loss was against Burroughs, prior to that Howe had a 51 match winning streak and is a very highly rated freestyle wrestler. 174 lbs. - The top seed hasn't lost this year but I think this is one of the most wide open weight classes, multiple all-americans in the mid-seeds, I would be surprised if this went straight chalk. #1 Jonathan Reader, Iowa State, RS Sr. - A two time All-American who failed to reach the podium last year, hasn't lost this year #2 Edward Ruth, Penn State, Fr. - Very highly recruited out of High School, he has already beaten most of his competition this year including last year's #2 and #3 place winners. #3 Mack Lewnes, Cornell, Sr. - Last year's runner up Lewnes took forth place his freshman year and was the number 1 seed 2 years ago. Has lost a couple matches #5 Chris Hentrich, Virginia, Sr. - Last year's third place winner he is the first two time All-American in UVA history. 184 lbs. -This weight class must have been hell to seed after the top seed, the 2-7 seeds all have 2 or 3 losses and they ranked last year's runner-up 11. There are 2 all Americans in the entire bracket? May as well pick a name out of a hat. #1 Chris Honeycutt, Edinburo, Jr. - Undefeated this year but is unproven in NCAA tournaments. #2 Robert Hamlin, Lehigh, So. - I wasn't going to write about anybody in this weight but this guy goes to Lehigh, and I've never met him but I'm sure he's a scholar and a gentleman as well as a very solid wrestler. #11 Kirk Smith, Boise State, Sr. - Last Year's NCAA runner up, he has been injured this year, but he may be healed enough to run at the title. 197 lbs. -You probably could have switched around the 1-4 seeds and nobody would have objected. All 4 are former All-Americans. #1 Cam Simaz, Cornell, Jr. - An All-American last year who has come on strong this year. Will he be the Cornell wrestler that doesn't live up to his seed? There's always one. He lost to Dustin Kilgore earlier in the year. #2 Clayton Foster, Oklahoma State, Sr. - An All-American last year but had a disappointing tournament by placing 6th, while watching the wrestler he beat in the Big 12 finals take the title. Has not lost this year. #3 Trevor Brandvold, Wisconsin, RS Sr. - Has been injured for part of the year, since returning from injury he has not lost. All-American last year. #4 Dustin Kilgore, Kent State, Sr. - All-American at 184 last year, has beaten Cam Simaz in a tournament this year. Was ranked #1 for much of the season. 285 lbs. -Always the best weight class, the top seed was pretty dominant all year but he lost in the finals of his conference tournament. Every single year anything can happen at Heavyweight, for some reason these guys go to overtime in matches quite a bit. #1 Zach Rey, Lehigh, Jr. - Words that can be used to describe Zach- Big, huge, giant, all of 285 lbs. He is agile as a cat though, and has beaten all of the other top guys in the weightclass this year, oftentimes in sudden victory. Was third at last year's NCAA tournament. Look for pictures of him, he's a big strong dude. The other guys - After Rey the competition is pretty wide open, they have beaten each other up and it will be a scramble to see who makes it. Sorry if this isn't edited well, I rushed it a bit, I'm psyched for this year's tournament, it has quite a few weight classes which are not dominated by someone. Also it is the exception, not the rule, that the top seeds make it to the semis. So you never know.
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Mar 16, 2011 18:41
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If you only watch one session other than the finals, I'd reccomend the "Round of 12", which is the losers of the quarterfinals against the guys who have fought through the conselation bracket. This tends to be some of the best wrestling of the tournament as these guys are fighting their asses off since the winners have assured themselves All American status and the losers go home.
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Mar 16, 2011 18:45
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Thoguh posted:If you only watch one session other than the finals, I'd reccomend the "Round of 12", which is the losers of the quarterfinals against the guys who have fought through the conselation bracket. This tends to be some of the best wrestling of the tournament as these guys are fighting their asses off since the winners have assured themselves All American status and the losers go home. I'd say that or the consolation semi's and medal rounds. They are back to back and pretty brutal. Also the best thing about the NCAA's is that anything can happen (not sure which one of those work it's blocked at work): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRB6m4VdeJQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoS5kDBGPiw
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Mar 16, 2011 18:50
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Mardragon posted:#2 Michael Thorn, Minnesota, RS Sr. - An All-American last year, his father was a former All-American as well, he trains jiu-jitsu, I posted a video of him pulling guard in a wrestling match last year, I don't really have time to find it but he pulled guard at the end of the period to prevent the other guy getting points. This is, this is my horse in the race. Go Guard Pulling Gophers! Question: how much weight do these guys typically cut? Like if I weigh 155-165 what weight class is closest to my size?
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Mar 16, 2011 19:51
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