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quote:Forces loyal to Colonel Gaddafi have been driven out of Benghazi by anti-government troops, a rebel spokesman told Reuters. "We revolutionaries have taken control of four tanks inside Benghazi. Rebel forces have pushed Gaddafi's forces out of Benghazi and are combing the western gate area for Gaddafi's troops," Nasr al-Kikili, a lawyer who works for the rebel media centre in Benghazi, said. Earlier, hundreds of residents were seen on the streets firing guns in the air to celebrate the reported rebel successes. One tank with about a dozen of people on top of it toured round on a victory parade in the city."We are victorious, we are victorious," they chanted. quote:Reuters is reporting a source which says the first wave of military action against Libya involving the international community could start as soon as the Paris meeting ends. Earlier it was said the meeting is expected to end at 14:00 GMT. The first air strikes against Libya will be French, British and Canadian, Al Arabiya quotes a French official Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 13:46
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Brown Moses posted:That's in 1 hour. I was wondering when in the hell they were going to start enforcing the NFZ.
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Mar 19, 2011 13:58
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The Danish foreign minister just said that the attack will start before tonight. But what does she know...
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Mar 19, 2011 14:00
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e;fb
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Mar 19, 2011 14:03
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quote:1304: Libya's state TV says Libya's green national flag has been hoisted in most neighbourhoods of Benghazi.
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Mar 19, 2011 14:07
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5ive posted:I was wondering when in the hell they were going to start enforcing the NFZ. Does Gaddafi even need jets in order to obliterate the towns? I mean, lobbing artillery into the towns isn't effected much by a NFZ. The international folks need to poo poo or get off the pot. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand, why are we not acting at this point? VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Cartouche fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 14:20
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/\/\/\/\/\ Thats what the "any measures to protect civilians" clause was for. Making any military forces indiscriminately attacking civilians or bombarding towns fair game for destruction.Vir posted:Not the most dependable source though. The report is perfectly correct. They just left out the detail that the flag also has black and red bars in addition to the green. 
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Mar 19, 2011 14:22
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Cartouche posted:Does Gaddafi even need jets in order to obliterate the towns? I mean, lobbing artillery into the towns isn't effected much by a NFZ. The international folks need to poo poo or get off the pot. Gaddafi's heavy artillery is really the difference maker for him. Neutralizing his batteries would have a bigger effect than taking out his jets.
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Mar 19, 2011 14:24
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New Division posted:Gaddafi's heavy artillery is really the difference maker for him. Neutralizing his batteries would have a bigger effect than taking out his jets. Would be awesome if we were actually doing that, rather than having yet more "emergency meetings". And by "we", I am talking about France, Denmark, etc.
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Mar 19, 2011 14:38
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Intersting.... FMC is picking up Heavy encrypted SATCOM traffic 252.6375 MHz http://twitter.com/fmcnl
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Mar 19, 2011 14:46
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Didn't a few people in the thread say they were going to start operating in a few minutes from now, though?
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Mar 19, 2011 14:47
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Yeah, news reports said the meeting in Paris would be ending in about 10 minutes from now, and military action would start soon afterwards. Sad news for the rebels: quote:BREAKING: Libya Alhurra TV is reporting that its founder Mohammed Al Nabbous is critically injured. This is devastating as we were watching and Mo this morning and tweeting his news. We ask God to heal him and ease his tribulation. Ameen quote:Mohammed Al Nabbous founder of Libya Alhurra TV on livestream has passed away. May God accept him from amongst the martyrs and give his family patience and steadfastness. Ameen Also, some other info on the NFZ: quote:The four Arab countries to take part in military operations revealed as UAE, Qatar, Jordan, Morocco. I believe the UAE, Qatar and France have done joint military practise in the past. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 14:49
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I'm glued to twitters and reading the news as they come along. So glad this is going down on Saturday. Really surprised that European powers are cutting straight to the chase by drawing up target lists with an intent of bombing them. Despite the infuriatingly glacial pace they're skipping bunch of steps and getting to the meat. Silver lining, I guess.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:11
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BBC reporting that US aircraft have arrived at Prestwick airport to refuel. I assume that means its F-22's as Stealth Bombers anyone would recognise, and anything else wouldn't be coming direct from America. My guess they are going for a major attack to neutralise Gaddafi's anti air assets.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:14
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Is that PM Harper in france? e: haha, they called him Ben Harper. Oh Stephen, you'll never be taken seriously.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:17
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French, British, Canadian, UAE, Qatar, Jordan, Morocco... tiny countries to the rescue! Except for Canada, but that's an honorary tiny country.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:20
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From BBC: BFM, a French TV station, is reporting French fighter jets are over Benghazi enforcing the no-fly zone. http://www.bfmtv.com/
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Mar 19, 2011 15:20
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SatanX posted:From BBC: The "Le Direct" tab is the live stream for the TV, though it's in French.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:24
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I'm a little skeptical about Abdel Fatah Younes' claims. He's on the right side, but I think lots of statements attributed to him are possibly propaganda.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:25
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Probably the unpopular opinion but i'm with Gaddafi on this one. Its an internal affair and certainly doesn't warrant international military action. This is just the United States removing an enemy from power. If they were truly doing this for humanitarian reasons then they would of also passed a resolution against Bahrain...oh wait can't piss off the Saudis now..
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Mar 19, 2011 15:29
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kalonji posted:Probably the unpopular opinion but i'm with Gaddafi on this one. Its an internal affair and certainly doesn't warrant international military action. This is just the United States removing an enemy from power. haha, this is the worst post.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:31
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XCPuff posted:haha, this is the worst post.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:32
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kalonji posted:Probably the unpopular opinion but i'm with Gaddafi on this one. Its an internal affair and certainly doesn't warrant international military action. This is just the United States removing an enemy from power. Are you loving kidding? I get that the west is hypocritical but Bahrain so far isn't slaughtering thousands of it's civilians with bombing runs and anti-aircraft weaponry. That doesn't mean what they're doing okay but Libya has really pushed it to an entirely different level. In a perfect world we should be helping every country with lovely governments and rulers who are murdering civilians for protesting, but gently caress I'd prefer us doing something for one country than nothing at all.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:33
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BFM (French television) reports that the French are already sending reconnaissance aicrcaft to Lybia. Edit: My French is a little bit rusty, but I understood correctly, these aircraft are not authorised to attack Gaddafis forces at this time, but will defend themselves if attacked.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:34
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NoneSuch posted:Are you loving kidding? I get that the west is hypocritical but Bahrain so far isn't slaughtering thousands of it's civilians with bombing runs and anti-aircraft weaponry. That doesn't mean what they're doing okay but Libya has really pushed it to an entirely different level. Granted what Gaddafi is doing is brutal and bordering on war crimes. But this happens quite often in dictatorships. Where was the no fly zone over southern sudan, why didn't they bomb Omar Bashir. This is not about the Libyan people its about Gadaffi. Pure and simple.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:36
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Heh, while pretty much every representative left all business-like, Hillary stopped to smile and wave. Also, saying you're against the West rather than with Gaddafi would probably be better worded, and it's true we are hypocrits when you consider the situation in other countries. The French planes flying over Benghazi are Rafale on a recon mission from the Saint-Dizier base. pylb fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 15:36
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kalonji posted:Probably the unpopular opinion but i'm with Gaddafi on this one. Its an internal affair and certainly doesn't warrant international military action. This is just the United States removing an enemy from power. I'd say you're probably the only one with that opinion. You cannot be sufficiently informed about the situation and still consider Gaddafi as a sane individual in this conflict. He's a butcher who will stop at nothing to take back the cities. This is the international community trying to prevent a genocide beyond what has transpired in last 5 weeks. Saudi King Abdullah has more legitimacy than Gaddafi at this point.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:37
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kalonji posted:Probably the unpopular opinion but i'm with Gaddafi on this one. Its an internal affair and certainly doesn't warrant international military action. This is just the United States removing an enemy from power. Hello Mr. Chomsky, what up?
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Mar 19, 2011 15:37
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kalonji posted:Probably the unpopular opinion but i'm with Gaddafi on this one. Its an internal affair and certainly doesn't warrant international military action. This is just the United States removing an enemy from power. While I don't agree with you it is certainy extremely hypocritical to have a handful of arab dictatorships cooperate with Western nations in this operation. The moral weight of it all is roughly at the same level as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's condemnation of the Bahraini monarchy's beat-down of opposition protestors. It's all extremely problematic and may have severe popular political consequences.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:37
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kalonji posted:Granted what Gaddafi is doing is brutal and bordering on war crimes. But this happens quite often in dictatorships. Where was the no fly zone over southern sudan, why didn't they bomb Omar Bashir. They aren't bordering on War crimes. I'm pretty sure turning protesters in to bloody chunks of meat with weaponry which is designed to shoot down aircraft counts as a war crime. You're right it's wrong we don't get involved with crap which is happening over the world but politics is difficult. You're right that Gadaffi is a big reason why we can interfere - he's pretty much proven that he's utterly insane and nobody wants to support him. Still no matter the motivation if it gets rid of Gaddafi and stops people in Libya getting slaughtered? I'm all for it. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 15:41
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Hello Mr. Chomsky, what up? Nah, even Chomsky gave credit where credit was due, that was just the worst post.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:42
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kalonji posted:Granted what Gaddafi is doing is brutal and bordering on war crimes. But this happens quite often in dictatorships. Where was the no fly zone over southern sudan, why didn't they bomb Omar Bashir. It's true that we don't live in a just world, and powerful people will look the other way in the face of atrocities if they think they can profit by doing so (or decide that intervening would be too expensive). That said, the fact that realpolitik will inevitably lead to crimes being ignored is not justification for *never* stepping in. Yeah, it would be bad if we just stormed in there with a flimsy pretense a la Iraq. Which is why the UN waited until everybody in the region was basically screaming for them to intervene, and the US is explicitly letting other people take the lead on this one.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:43
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kalonji posted:This is not about the Libyan people its about Gadaffi. Pure and simple. You're trolling hard, so I'll try not to feed you much but... not about the Libyan people? They only went balls out revolution to the point they'll all be massacred if Gadaffi wins. It's a pretty serious situation. And who's to say other dictatorships won't fall? They're on a roll, but it takes patience, this is not the easiest thing in the world.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:43
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Thundarr posted:It's true that we don't live in a just world, and powerful people will look the other way in the face of atrocities if they think they can profit by doing so (or decide that intervening would be too expensive). That said, the fact that realpolitik will inevitably lead to crimes being ignored is not justification for *never* stepping in. Sort of funny that you think the UN did anything on purpose and that their delays and time-wasting is intentional.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:45
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killing_fields posted:Sort of funny that you think the UN did anything on purpose and that their delays and time-wasting is intentional. Eh, that came out badly. You're right that "waited" is the wrong word. Either way, if France and the UK had flown in and started blowing poo poo up the moment things started getting bad, that would likely have generated much more serious problems.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:49
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Sarkozy's speaking right now : http://www.itele.fr/direct e : Man, that was short. Points : * French planes are flying over Libya to prevent any attacks over Benghazi * Ready to intervene vs Gadaffi armerd vehicules. * Gaddafi still can avoid the worst by respecting the UN resolution "without delay" * "Diplomacy's door will reopened when agressions stop" Blue Demon fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 15:50
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Spiky Ooze posted:You're trolling hard, so I'll try not to feed you much but... not about the Libyan people? They only went balls out revolution to the point they'll all be massacred if Gadaffi wins. It's a pretty serious situation. And who's to say other dictatorships won't fall? They're on a roll, but it takes patience, this is not the easiest thing in the world. Someone has an opinion that runs contrary to a thread they are automatically a troll. gently caress you, I guess we should just all agree to circlejerk. Now to address what you're saying, it will be a cold day in hell before the United States supports any military action in the Gulf. Purely because of oil interests. So no its not a process, its a targeted attack against a long time enemy under the guise of protecting the Libyan people. If the United Nations truly gave a poo poo about the Libyan people, Gaddafi would of been deposed by force two decades ago. They don't and many more people have died under dictatorships in the last ten years than Libya with nothing more than strongly worded press statements. kalonji fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Mar 19, 2011 |
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Mar 19, 2011 15:50
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I hope I'm wrong, but part of me is still expecting the UN Security Council to be slow or lax in doing anything...I'm envisioning Benghazi burning for another day accompanied by pages' worth of posts like "Cmon your planes are right there bomb him already!"
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Mar 19, 2011 15:51
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Svartvit posted:While I don't agree with you it is certainy extremely hypocritical to have a handful of arab dictatorships cooperate with Western nations in this operation. The moral weight of it all is roughly at the same level as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's condemnation of the Bahraini monarchy's beat-down of opposition protestors. It's all extremely problematic and may have severe popular political consequences. Ahmedinejad's protest has everything to do with the Sunni/Shia split and trying to destabilize Sunni regimes.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:53
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kalonji posted:Someone has an opinion that runs contrary to a thread they are automatically a troll. gently caress you, I guess we should just all agree to circlejerk. Either a) a troll, b) an idiot, c) a sociopath or d) a genuinely evil person. It's very simple, intervening is less evil than not intervening. It would be even better if there was interference in Bahrain as well, but that is not likely. So helping Libya and not Bahrain is better than helping neither. That's really logic a four year-old should be able to grasp.
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Mar 19, 2011 15:55
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