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Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Pedrophile posted:

Looks like the stories of mercenaries being paid with gold are somewhat true, a video of supplies and such taken:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRcDnxKM4VY&feature=youtu.be

The gun at 0:46 is a Mark 19 40mm grenade launcher, which is frankly surprising because its an American-made weapon, manufactured by General Dynamics. I'd have thought these guys would be using those 30mm Russian auto-grenade launchers.

Also, that's a lot of scoped FN FALs. I can only imagine that these were sniper weapons.

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OwlBot 2000
Jun 1, 2009
His name has been thrown around a lot in this thread, but who is Nato, anyway?

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Young Freud posted:

The gun at 0:46 is a Mark 19 40mm grenade launcher, which is frankly surprising because its an American-made weapon, manufactured by General Dynamics. I'd have thought these guys would be using those 30mm Russian auto-grenade launchers.

Also, that's a lot of scoped FN FALs. I can only imagine that these were sniper weapons.


That's some pretty decent firepower for the rebels to get their hands on, no doubt those tall building in Misarata now have rebel snipers sat in them.

Pedrophile
Feb 25, 2011

by angerbot

Brown Moses posted:

That's some pretty decent firepower for the rebels to get their hands on, no doubt those tall building in Misarata now have rebel snipers sat in them.

If you think that's decent check out what some rebels managed to get their hands on:
http://twitpic.com/4p6uww

FN2000 with attached grenade launcher, a pricey weapon.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

That's one lucky rebel.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

Brown Moses posted:

That's one lucky rebel.

Dude musta killed one of those elite enemies to get that drop.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

According to Gaddafi's spokesman there should have been a zerg rush by 60,000 tribesmen on Misarata by now, but that doesn't seem to have materialised. I think the "we withdrew on purpose" story he was spinning can be safely filed under "bullshit". Gaddafi's forces got hosed in Misarata, plain and simple.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

From the Guardian:

quote:

AP has more on the situation in Deraa:

"We need international intervention. We need countries to help us," shouted a witness in Deraa, who said he saw five corpses after security forces opened fire on a car. He spoke to The Associated Press by telephone.

Another witness said people were using mosque loudspeakers in Deraa to summon doctors to help the wounded as busloads of security forces and troops conducted house-to-house searches, causing panic in the streets.

"They are entering houses, they are searching the houses," he said. "They are carrying knives and guns."

The news agency also reports that security forces have opened fire in Jableh, near Banias, for a second consecutive day:

Also Monday, witnesses said Syrian security forces had opened fire in the coastal town of Jableh, where police and army units fired from rooftops over the weekend even though there were no apparent threats and no protests in progress.

On Monday, witnesses said security forces in camouflage uniforms some with their faces covered and masked gunmen dressed in black were roaming the town's streets.

"Jableh is surrounded by security forces," the witness said, speaking by telephone. "The dead are in the mosques and the houses. We can't get them out.

quote:

Syrian Jasmine, part of a network of Syrian cyber activists, has emailed an account of what happened in Deraa, based on contact with people in Syria. It says the shooting is continuing. We have no way of independently verifying the report:

An Army and security forces raid on the city of Daraa took place at 4.15am (2.15am BST) on 25 April 2011, including approximately 4000 to 5000 of heavily armed soldiers and seven T-55 tanks.
[There was] Indiscriminate shooting on houses by anti-aircraft.

The forces occupied Bilal al-Habashi Mosque, Abu Bakr Mosque and the martyrs graveyard. Snipers were located on the houses and high rise buildings' rooftops.

Five officers (two captains and 3 lieutenants) and nine soldiers split from the army because of their sense of responsibility and they are from Tartous, Homs and Lattakia (including Issa Abdul-Rahman and Shady Shaaban)

More than twenty five martyrs passed away but no one could get close to them because of the heavy brutal shooting. Seven of the martyrs could have been pulled from the scene and they are:

1- Anas Almahamid
2- Firas Almikhal Almasalmah
3- Ahmad Alshaqran
4- Ayman Alshaqran
5- Mohammad Alshaqran (the father of Ahmad and Ayman Alshaqran)
6- Shadi Ayyash
7- Ahmad Mohammad Shahadah

Kamal Ayyash the commander of III Corps and the citizen of Daraa was arrested because he protested against the killing and events. The shooting is still going on.

quote:

Syrian American academic Mohja Kahf tweets that Syrian TV is offering a very different version of events in Deraa than that being reported by residents of the city:

Here what #Syrian tv is reporting:"fundamentalist Muslims are declaring a caliphate in #Dara & establishing its Emir in the Omari Mosque"

quote:

In an article for Comment is Free, one of the Guardian's Middle East experts, Brian Whitaker, writes that the Syrian government's time-honoured methods of responding to protests may not work this time:



The spectre of a new Hama massacre was raised again on social networks as troops and tanks moved into Deraa around dawn on Monday. While there is little doubt that the regime has launched a major offensive in the city, what exactly is happening there is still unclear.

But what worked for the regime in 1982 will not necessarily work today. As Rania Abouzeid points out in an article for Time magazine, "the regime is still ruthless, but this time the rebellion is not restricted to one city or one sect". The current uprising is spread far more widely across the country and includes a broad spectrum of disaffected citizens.

It is also far more difficult to suppress news of the latest killings than it was in 1982. Even with phones and electricity cut off in Deraa, amateur videos from the city had begun appearing on YouTube within a few hours of the troops' arrival ...

It is also debatable whether intensified repression will have the effect the regime seeks. The evidence from the last five weeks is that far from intimidating people it is simply making them more angry. For every death there is a funeral, which creates another opportunity to protest. Aware of this, the regime in some cases appears to be withholding bodies – thus delaying or preventing funerals and the protests that accompany them.

quote:

Assaults have been carried out on a number of places in Syria other than Derraa, writes Katherine Marsh:

Information trickling out of Douma suggests tanks and heavy weapons were - and possibly still are being - used there too. Several smaller towns, including Moaddamiyeh and Saqba close to Damascus, have also seen gunfire and been raided whilst activists are reporting that Daraya, another small town in the rural band around the capital, is being closed off now.

Radwan Ziadeh, a US human rights activist from Daraya, said: "I heard there were checkpoints but the tanks were 2km from Daraya, near to Moaddamiyeh. But I am now hearing that the internet is cut and roads are being closed."

There are also unconfirmed reports of security forces firing at people in towns close to Bosra, a tourist city with a Roman ampitheatre in the southern area close to Jordan.
Syrian activists in Damascus are watching today's vicious crackdown with dismay and outrage. "They believe they can finish it once and for all," said one, who asked for anonymity. "It is unbearable."

quote:

Al-Jazeera reports that the borders between Syria and Jordan are definitely closed, despite the Syrian denials.


Al-Jazeera's Dima Khatib tweets:

Syria had denied it . But AlJazeera went live from Jordanian side of the border and confirmed borders are sealed from the Syrian side #syria

quote:

The crackdown in Syria has led to more opponents of the regime going underground, Katherine Marsh writes:


Activists and critics tell me they are feeling increasingly targeted. Many already work under pseudonyms or in hiding and this week several prominent people have joined them, including writer Yassin Haj Saleh, who wrote a piece for the New York Times a couple of weeks ago, and, internet reports say, Haytham al-Maleh, the prominent lawyer who was Syria's oldest political prisoner until he was released last month. Some activists also allege that their colleagues have been targeted in raids and shootings in Douma and elsewhere today.

Opposition apparently accepting GCC deal in Yemen, with some youth groups violently protesting.

Contraction mapping
Jul 4, 2007
THE NAZIS WERE SOCIALISTS

A ILL BREAKFAST posted:

All I can think of is Liberia, Sudan, and other similar African countries where supposed freedom fighters have committed inhumane slaughter for years.. But in these particular ME countries it does seem to be more "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore" rather than "Let's slaughter this tribe with these sweet AKs we bought from the Russians/Americans/Chinese/French/Pirates etc."

Official Theme Song of the Arab Spring

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Dude musta killed one of those elite enemies to get that drop.

From way earlier in the thread, but those weapons, along with other Fabrique Nationale guns like the P90s and Five-Seven, were linked to an "counter-terrorist" battalion inside the Khamis brigade. If Khamis' brigade, possibly the elite of the elite in the Libyan army, was routed out of Misurata, no wonder Qaddafi isn't speaking a whole lot about them anymore.

Ace Oliveira
Dec 27, 2009

"I wonder if there is beer on the sun."

Young Freud posted:

Also, that's a lot of scoped FN FALs. I can only imagine that these were sniper weapons.

There's just a shitload of FALs in general, both in rebel hands and in Loyalist hands. I've also seen a shitton of FN LARs alongdside the FN FALs in rebel hands. They both have been in general issue with the Libyan army since the 1970s, which explains how so many of them are turning up. Apparentely, Gaddafi had so many of them, he actually gave a big number of them to the Provisional IRA in the 1980s.

No wonder they called the FAL "The Right Arm of the Free World" back in the Cold War.

BCR
Jan 23, 2011

Ace Oliveira posted:

Is there any chance things will blow up in Syria now that Assad is outright murdering people? This is the same sort of poo poo that happened in Libya back in february.

In the past they leveled a town called Hama and killed 20,000 when the Muslim Brotherhood challenged the Syrian government. The government is likely to do everything to keep in power. They're Alawites and a minority in Syria and minority's aren't popular in the Middle East. Going against Israel was their main justification of being in power. If they can't contain the rebellions conventionally, I can see them using chemical weapons.

Rex Deckard
Jul 15, 2004

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

Dude musta killed one of those elite enemies to get that drop.

If this is a reference to what I think it is, I love you.

Kenning
Jan 11, 2009

I really want to post goatse. Instead I only have these🍄.



BCR posted:

In the past they leveled a town called Hama and killed 20,000 when the Muslim Brotherhood challenged the Syrian government. The government is likely to do everything to keep in power. They're Alawites and a minority in Syria and minority's aren't popular in the Middle East. Going against Israel was their main justification of being in power. If they can't contain the rebellions conventionally, I can see them using chemical weapons.

Oh hush. There's no evidence of any sectarian aspect to the Syria situation. You don't know anything.

BCR
Jan 23, 2011

I was using a past example that the Syrian government when it feels threatened will go all out to crush all opposition. You're not going to get any civil war where the government divides. You've got the security services made up of one tribal group that has kept its boot firmly on the face of a whole country. It'll be the government against the people.

They've already started.

http://tinyurl.com/5trc4r2

http://tinyurl.com/3fq9qz9

http://tinyurl.com/6hv42ht

BCR fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Apr 26, 2011

Redgrendel2001
Sep 1, 2006

you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.

Kenning posted:

Oh hush. There's no evidence of any sectarian aspect to the Syria situation. You don't know anything.

True, but their being essentially Shi'ite and the ruling class is why they're the Iranian satellite state. Syrian instability will probably be more influential for the next several years of the Pan-Arab world than any of the other revolts, even Egypt.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

I was reading this article about Misarata from a couple of days ago, and came acros this section:

quote:

The uprising began on 19 February, a small demonstration called in support of the people of Benghazi in the east, whose own protests had been crushed by the government. For 14 days the people of Misrata controlled the city. Some say it was the greatest time of their lives. People flooded the streets, crying with joy. But they knew Gaddafi's forces would come back. And they were prepared. When a large convoy of Gaddafi tanks and armoured vehicles reached the city on 6 March, they met no resistance and were drawn into the city centre.

Hundreds of young men were waiting on the roofs of buildings, armed with petrol bombs and "gelatinas", tiny bombs made with TNT.

The mobile phone network was still working then, and once the order was given the homemade bombs rained down on the convoy. Gaddafi's forces were humbled. Many died, others retreated. Inside some of the destroyed tanks rebels found cakes and juice; the troops had been so convinced that they would retake the city they had prepared for a party.

I thought I'd have a look at what I had posted on that day, to see if the reports I posted matched up with the above events:

quote:

LibyanYouthMovement tweets: "We are getting reports from Misrata that the city is free and they have captured some of the pro gaddafi forces #Libya #Feb17."

quote:

And LibyaInMe also tweets: "CONFIRMED: #Gaddafi's men backed out of Misrata. 10 killed incl. a 2 yr. 10 of Gaddafi's men have been detained. #feb17 #libya."

quote:

Now Reuters is quoting a resident of Misrata as saying the rebels have repelled an attack by regime forces on the town.

quote:

A resident in Misrata gives more details to Reuters of the rebels' success in driving back government forces saying: "The revolutionaries captured 20 soldiers and seized a tank. The town is now fully in the control of the youths."

quote:

This video has emerged onine in the past few hours, and claims to show the city of Misurata after opposition fighters saw off attacks by Gaddafi's troops. It shows shell-damaged buildings and burnt out tanks. It's on Facebook, so we can't embed it here. To watch it, you'll have to click here. Like the other videos we've been sent via third-party sites, we've got no way of independently verifying its veracity.

quote:

We're getting reports from Misurata that 16 Gaddafi soldiers, and 18 armed anti-Gaddafi fighters, were killed in today's fighting. There are at least 71 wounded, and nine in critical condition, we understand.

Four 4x4 vehicles with mounted rifles were reportedly captured, and one tank destroyed.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Ace Oliveira posted:

Where's Nasufa? I haven't heard anything about that city.

Just to come back to this, Nasufa is a western mountain region that's currently under heavy attack by Gaddafi's forces. Probably the most significant areas are the town of Nalut, population of about 100k, and the Tunisian/Libya border crossing that's about 10-15km to the west, that you might remember was recently captured by the rebels after Gaddafi's troops fled across the border. Here's the map of the region.

The main thing to understand about that area is it's very moutainous, and there's alot of cave networks that the people of the region are very familiar with, and are using as shelter from Gaddafi bombardments. From all the reports I've seen the fighting is less focused on the towns in the area, and there's been plenty of fighting outside of cities, and if Twitter is to be believed Gaddafi's forces are struggling to control the area.

Just for an example here's a couple of recent Tweets from the region:

quote:

50 #Gaddafi forces were killed, and many others surrendered in #Nalut

quote:

Gaddafi forces are using boy soldiers. A 15 yr old was captured in Emjabra today and has been taken in by a local family.

quote:

14 men from a #Gaddafi brigade were captured by freedom fighters in Emjabra today and taken to a POW camp.

quote:

in solidarity with their fellow Libyans of #Nafusa, Libyans abroad sent convoys of medical and fuel supplies to #Zintan

Again, it's Twitter, so it can't be verified.

What's changed today is a Al Jazeera English reporter has managed to reach the region, and just posted this video report on the AJE site:

quote:

Further west in the Nafusa mountains of Libya, an area that has remained largely inaccessible to journalists, rebels have been under siege from Muammar Gaddafi's forces for two months.

The area is home to the Berber minority and the fighting has forced thousands to flee across the border to Tunisia.

Anita McNaught went there and met a community that says NATO's first-ever air strikes in the area has helped them gain ground against Gaddafi's forces.

So to think of this conflict to be focused around just Benghazi in the East and Misarata in the West is really rather misleading, especially as it feeds into the arguement that Libya will end up split in two once Misarata falls. There's at least one of major region in the west where there's heavy fighting, so to think that Misarata is the beginning and the end of the conflict in the West is just wrong.

[edit]
There's unverifiable rumours on Twitter that violence has erupted in Zawiyah again, but with no reporters allowed anywhere near there it's impossible to verify.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Apr 26, 2011

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Live Blogs April 26th
AJE Syria
AJE Libya
Guardian
LibyaFeb17.com

Misarata

quote:

Xan Rice, our colleague who is in Misrata on a surprisingly good line, says there has been a lull in the intense shelling of the only rebel-held city in western Libya.

quote:

There was a lot less shelling last night and I haven't heard any this morning so far, which is a big contrast since I arrived on Wednesday. The Gaddafi forces have been removed from the city centre and been pushed back beyond the highway, which is a big defeat for them. But residents have not rushed back to their homes as there still may be one or two Gaddafi soldiers hiding out, there is also the danger from unexploded ordinance and lots of homes have been destroyed. While people are pleased about Gaddafi forces being pushed out, there is not a sense that it's over. The rebels managed to drive government forces out by cutting their supply lines and battering them day after day. The snipers could not be resupplied with food or ammunition. The tanks were taken out by RPGs or were blocked as rebels cut streets off with shipping containers. But there much frustration with Nato. The rebels are saying: 'They're hitting us with artillery from 12 miles away, they must be in the open, why isn't Nato attacking them."

quote:

Xan has just been back on the line to say that he's hearing that Nato might have taken out some of the Libyan government artillery, which explains the lull in today's shelling. So rebel frustration at Nato has eased considerably.

The WFP put out this press release detailing aid delivered to Misarata and beyond:

quote:

CAIRO – A ship chartered by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) has delivered more than 500 metric tons of food assistance, three ambulances, medical supplies and other relief items on behalf of humanitarian partners to the Libyan town of Misrata. This is the second time this month that a WFP-chartered vessel has delivered food and relief to the people of Misrata.

* The ship delivered 350 metric tons of wheat flour on 23 April - enough to feed 23,000 people for one month. It also offloaded 150 metric tons of mixed food including pasta, rice, potatoes; 84 metric tons of bottled water; 12 metric tons of medicines and three ambulances on behalf of UNICEF, and other international aid organisations.
* An earlier WFP shipment to Misrata on 7 April carried more than 600 metric tons of food assistance - enough to feed 40,000 for one month - for distribution to the civilian population trapped by the ongoing fighting. Local partners on the ground such as the Libyan Red Crescent are distributing the food mainly to hospitals and to the most vulnerable civilians - especially women and children.
* WFP has recently opened a new supply route to western Libya. On Monday 17 April, a first convoy of 9 trucks loaded with 240 metric tons of wheat flour and 9 metric tons of High Energy Biscuits crossed to western Libya from Ras Jedir on the Libyan Tunisian border. The food supplies are being distributed through WFP’s partner, the Libyan Red Crescent, to crisis-affected populations, particularly women and children in Tripoli, Zintan, Yefrin, Nalut, Mezda, Al Reiba and Al Zawia. Further deliveries of humanitarian assistance to these areas are currently being prepared.
* In eastern Libya, WFP has now reached more than 200,000 people - mainly internally displaced people, foreign migrants and other vulnerable groups with more than 665 metric tons of food assistance and pre-positioned more than 17,500 metric tons of food stocks inside the country and across the region, as part of a three-month, US$42 million emergency operation that will provide food assistance to more than 1 million people in Libya and neighbouring countries.
* WFP has deployed experts on the ground in Libya to coordinate and strengthen logistics and telecommunications for the humanitarian community as part of Special Operations costing US$4 million. Emergency Telecommunications experts have been deployed to Benghazi to provide data and voice services, and reduce disruptions amid power cuts.
* WFP is concerned about access to food for people stranded in areas heavily affected by the fighting, internally displaced people, third country nationals and vulnerable groups.
* WFP is also concerned about food security and the future of the public food distribution system in Libya as food stocks in the country are being consumed without replenishment. The longer the conflict lasts, the more likely that the number of those in need of food assistance will increase. A recent inter-agency mission found that food stocks in the eastern parts of the country are not being replenished at normal rates and the current stocks are enough for up to two months only. Libya is a net food importing country and if the import capacity is not restored quickly, this could lead to a massive food availability problem for the entire population of eastern Libya.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

quote:

A Nato attack on a compound used by Gaddafi caused an "amazing scene" of destruction, our colleague, Harriet Sherwood, reports from Tripoli.

"The building, which officials here claim was a civilian office building housing a library and archive, was completely flattened. Nato says it was a command and control centre - it was a legitimate target. The Libya government here are saying very explicitly it was an attempt to assassinate Gaddafi and an act of terrorism."

Meanwhile, fuel queues are mounting, Harriet says.

"Huge petrol queues have sprung up again in Tripoli and surrounding towns. I went to a town quite close to the Tunisian border called Zuwarah. There were massive queues of cars, five or six cars deep, and maybe half a kilometre long. And this was for petrol stations that were closed. I spoke to two guys who said they had both been waiting for five days. If Libya is running out of fuel that is a huge symbolic blow... People are very attached to their cheap fuel. That would have a big impact on morale."

It'll be interesting to see what effect that has, whether it'll lead to more unrest among Libyans, or harden their attitude towards the rebels and NATO. It'll be interesting to know if the Libyan army are having the same issues with fuel supplies as well.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

I'm starting to wonder if Western nations might use the situation in Syria to as leverage with Turkey, seeing as Turkey has had strong diplomatic relations with Syria, and would see itself as a natural leader in the resolution of the conflict.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Seems Gaddafi got his hands on some fuel :

quote:

Libya imported gasoline from Italian refiner Saras in early April, taking advantage of a loophole in United Nations sanctions that permits purchases by companies not on a UN list of banned entities.

Three shipping sources with direct knowledge of the transaction told the Reuters news agency the cargo was delivered via ship-to-ship transfer in Tunisia before sailing to Libya.

Italian-flagged tanker Valle di Navarra arrived at the Tunisian port of La Skhira on April 3 and then transferred its cargo onto the Libyan vessel Anwaar Libya for shipment to Gaddafi-controlled western Libya, the shipping sources said. Saras declined to comment.

The shipment is legal under UN sanctions against Gaddafi's government because the buyer, Libya's General National Maritime Transport Company (GNMTC) which owns the Anwaar Libya, is not on a UN blacklist.

Libyan efforts to import fuel may be raised at a meeting in Washington on Tuesday when UK defence secretary Liam Fox meets his US counterpart, Robert Gates.

Hopefully that'll be nipped in the bud during the meeting.

Other news from Libya, via the never reliable Twitter:

quote:

@alextomo Off coast of Misrata - thud of shelling clearly audible across calm, deserted waters #c4news

All from ChangeinLibya in the last 20 minutes:

quote:

Misrata: Revolutionary commanders say that they are being bombarded by Gaddafi's LUNA-M missile launchers based in Zlitn 50-60km away

quote:

550kg with a range of up to 80km I think... there were at least 3 craters that are 5 metres deep and 15m wide in city

quote:

Misrata: Confirmed: NATO jets have been bombarding Gaddafi forces in the outskirts of the city for over an hour & flying low

These are Luna Missiles.

quote:

@LibyaAlHurra UNCONFIRMED REPORT VIA Military Information Council of Mount #Nefusa: Freedom Fighters capture mercenaries in #Majabrp and other Gadafi forces raised white flags and surrendered. It appears that among those who surrendered were officers and soldiers from the Air Force who said that Gadafi's offensive experienced a substantial shortfall in the ranks of ground forces. This seemed to be further validated by the Gaddafi using his Navy for fighting in the desert, mountains and sand [instead of sea], the report said.

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

I remember hearing in World War 2, the Germans ended up pulling the same tactic of making up whatever absences in manpower in their ground forces by bringing in Kriegsmarine sailors and having them act as soldiers.

It didn't work out well for them either.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

News from Egypt:

quote:

Habib al-Adly, Egypt's ex-interior minister, has gone on trial in Cairo for the second time.

He is accused of having ordered the shooting of demonstrators during protests that toppled the former regime.

Adly has been charged along with six former aides, the state news agency reported on Tuesday. His case has been adjourned until late May.

He is also being held responsible for insecurity that prevailed after police disappeared from the streets of Cairo in the early days of the protests.

According to an official toll, 846 people were killed and several thousand wounded during 18 days of massive nationwide street protests that forced president Hosni Mubarak to quit on February 11.
He faces the death penalty.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Afternoon summary from the Guardian:

quote:

• Syrian security forces have shot dead at least 400 civilians in the crackdown against pro-democracy protesters, says the Syrian human rights organisation, Sawasiah. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said security police arrested a prominent rights campaigner Qassem al-Ghazzawi in his home city of Deir al-Zor in eastern Syria. Residents say there was gunfire in Deraa, the focal point of protests, this morning.

• Britain is working with the UK, France, Germany and Portugal on a draft statement on Syria which is being circulated at the UN, where Syria is to be discussed today. Foreign Secretary William Hague called on President Assad to "respond to the legitimate demands of his people with immediate and genuine reform, not with brutal repression".

• A Nato attack on a compound used by Muammar Gaddafi caused an "amazing scene" of destruction. The building, which officials here claim was a civilian office building housing a library and archive, was completely flattened.

• There has been a lull in shelling of the western city of Misrata, surrounded by Gaddafi forces on three sides. Rebels say the respite may have followed Nato air raids.

Also from Twitter:

quote:

Tripoli: Gaddafi State TV says that NATO destroyed the main submarine fiber optic cable connecting the capital's networks to Sirte's

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

The Channel 4 reporter Alex Thomson has just posted a blog from an aid ship that's arrived in Misarata from Benghazi in the past few hours:

quote:

We left Benghazi last night and are due to dock in Misrata shortly.

We’ve currently dropped anchor approximately 12 miles off Misrata. Even at this distance the thud of shelling is clearly audible across the calm and deserted waters.

According to the ship’s owners we’re staying here because they have been told the port itself may be under attack.

As Mediterranean cruises go this is one of the more surreal. The Red Star ferry is more used plying its trade between Albania and Italy.

She’s loaded with containers of medical supplies and food desperately needed by the people of Misrata.

They will be exchanged for around a thousand passengers, some of whom will be gravely injured – others simply want to get out.

Below the deck the doctors have already prepared places for treating the large number of trauma casualties they know they will be taking abroad.

One of them has come all the way from the Midlands, using three weeks of his holiday to treat the wounded in Misrata’s one remaining hospital.

He can’t be identified because his family are living in Tripoli, but he says he feels he must come and do what he can.

Like all doctors, he has taken the oath to treat anybody, civilian or soldier, rebel or Gaddafi – whoever needs medical attention.

In the city itself the rebels pushed Colonel Gaddafi’s forces from the town, but yesterday Misrata came under the most intense shelling for several days.

Colonel Gaddafi’s forces have concealed batteries of Grad rockets and 155mm artillery which they appear to be raining down on Misrata indiscriminately, according to people in the city.

When we dock, the doctors need to head to the hospital to make their triage assessments as fast as they can before transporting people back on board for the 20-hour trip to Benghazi and safety. There is not much time.

AreWeDrunkYet
Jul 8, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

Libya imported gasoline from Italian refiner Saras in early April, taking advantage of a loophole in United Nations sanctions that permits purchases by companies not on a UN list of banned entities.

Three shipping sources with direct knowledge of the transaction told the Reuters news agency the cargo was delivered via ship-to-ship transfer in Tunisia before sailing to Libya.

Italian-flagged tanker Valle di Navarra arrived at the Tunisian port of La Skhira on April 3 and then transferred its cargo onto the Libyan vessel Anwaar Libya for shipment to Gaddafi-controlled western Libya, the shipping sources said. Saras declined to comment.

The shipment is legal under UN sanctions against Gaddafi's government because the buyer, Libya's General National Maritime Transport Company (GNMTC) which owns the Anwaar Libya, is not on a UN blacklist.

Libyan efforts to import fuel may be raised at a meeting in Washington on Tuesday when UK defence secretary Liam Fox meets his US counterpart, Robert Gates.

(nevermind, missed the part about it being an explicit loophole in the sanctions)

Seems like Saras would be a good target for a boycott for that stunt. Does Italy have enough spare refining capacity that fuel distributors could take their business elsewhere?

AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 26, 2011

LITERALLY MAD IRL
Oct 30, 2008

And Malcolm Gladwell likes what he hears!

Brown Moses posted:

Just to come back to this, Nasufa is a western mountain region that's currently under heavy attack by Gaddafi's forces. Probably the most significant areas are the town of Nalut, population of about 100k, and the Tunisian/Libya border crossing that's about 10-15km to the west, that you might remember was recently captured by the rebels after Gaddafi's troops fled across the border. Here's the map of the region.

The main thing to understand about that area is it's very moutainous, and there's alot of cave networks that the people of the region are very familiar with, and are using as shelter from Gaddafi bombardments. From all the reports I've seen the fighting is less focused on the towns in the area, and there's been plenty of fighting outside of cities, and if Twitter is to be believed Gaddafi's forces are struggling to control the area.

Nafusa was one of the earliest centres of resistance in the West during the colonial period. Sulayman al-Baruni's rebel government was based there until the Italians defeated him in 1913.

For that matter Misrata was a pretty important too. The Italians were forced out of the city in 1915 and the Tripolitanian Republic was declared there in 1918.

Not sure if there's any significance to the fact that these are the major rebel areas in the west today but it's interesting to see some of the historical echoes.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Latest news from Twitter is that Gaddafi's forces are throwing everything they've got at the port in Misarata, and hitting the refugee camp nearby as well.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Save the Children UK has put out this press release:

quote:

Save the Children receives reports of child rape in Libya
There are reports of children being raped in war-torn Libya, Save the Children said today.

Families who have fled Misurata, Ajdabia, and Rus-Lanuf and are now in temporary camps in Benghazi, told Save the Children staff that children as young as eight had been sexually assaulted - sometimes in front of their families.

In one reported case mothers told of a group of girls being abducted, held hostage for four days and raped. When they were released they were unable to speak.

Some children said they had witnessed their fathers being murdered and mothers raped before they themselves were violently beaten.

Michael Mahrt, Save the Children's Child Protection Advisor who is currently conducting the assessment, said: "The reports of sexual violence against children are unconfirmed but they are consistent and were repeated across the four camps we visited.

"Children told us they have witnessed horrendous scenes. Some said they saw their fathers murdered and mothers raped. They described things happening to other children but they may have actually happened to them and they are just too upset to talk about it - it's a typical coping mechanism used by children who have suffered such abuse.

"What is most worrying is that we have only been able to speak to a limited number of children - what else is happening to those who are trapped in Misurata and other parts of the country who do not have a voice?"

Mr Mahrt said that some children are showing signs of physical and emotional distress; they are withdrawn, refuse to play and wake up crying in the night.

He added: "Whenever some children hear a gun being fired they re-live the terrible ordeal they have been through. It is clear that for many of them, their suffering is far from over."

Save the Children is calling for the international community to ensure that all parties respect children's right to be protected from violence and abuse.

Save the Children, together with other agencies, is conducting a 13-day assessment with families in the Benghazi area. To date the aid agency has talked to 200 children and 40 adults.

Save the Children is urgently scaling up its child protection work in Benghazi including training social workers to provide children with psycho-social support.

pwnyXpress
Mar 28, 2007

Brown Moses posted:

Save the Children UK has put out this press release:

This makes me want to kill everything. Ugh, why couldn't we have all just died in a large-scale nuclear war during the cold war?

Lustful Man Hugs
Jul 18, 2010

Brown Moses posted:

Save the Children UK has put out this press release:

drat, that is really sobering. I don't think we can ever hope to measure the full extent of the damage caused by CQ's tyranny. We can only hope that it ends very quickly.

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

ChaosSamusX posted:

drat, that is really sobering. I don't think we can ever hope to measure the full extent of the damage caused by CQ's tyranny. We can only hope that it ends very quickly.

Terrible as it is, such atrocities are usually committed by both sides in any war.

The X-man cometh
Nov 1, 2009
I wonder how many of the Syrian protesters are veterans of the wars in Lebanon in the 80s? Does that experience mean that the Syrian Army's better at urban warfare than the Libyans? Where does Hizballah stand in all of this?

Sorry for all the questions, I hope the Syrians in Deraa can fight back the same was as Benghazi did, but there are so many differences between the 2 countries.

Jut
May 16, 2005

by Ralp

Save the Children posted:

The reports of sexual violence against children are unconfirmed

The cynical part of me wouldn't be surprised if StC are reporting hearsay as an opportunity to draw attention to their work.
I hope nothing like what they report is happening over there though:(

TriggerHappy
Mar 14, 2007

Jut posted:

The cynical part of me wouldn't be surprised if StC are reporting hearsay as an opportunity to draw attention to their work.
I hope nothing like what they report is happening over there though:(

That sounds more like optimism to me.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Couple of things from Twitter. First of all it seems two aid ships are waiting outside of Misarata, unable to dock because of intense Gaddafi shelling of the docks. NATO aircraft are flying overhead, but it's hard to tell if they are making a difference.

William Hague also UK foreign minister, has all but said the UK government recognises the NTC as the government of Libya, at the same time sticking to his "we recognise states not governments" line.

Brown Moses
Feb 22, 2002

Jenan Moussa of Arabic Al Aan TV from Dubai is Tweeting a very annoying development:

quote:

BREAKING: 20 car aid convoy from #egypt extremist salafites, now at #salloum border, ready 2 cross into #libya.Libyans want convoy stopped.

quote:

Angry #libya(n) citizen called me from border: "salafites should stay away. Nobody in rebel held #Libya wants these pple."

quote:

Convoy is carrying extremist banners and some #libya(ns) r trying to convince group not to enter #libya.

quote:

Just spoke to source again @ #egypt border:"#egypt(ian) salafites refuse to listen, refuse to put down banners, refuse to turn back."

And some good news (if true) just posted by Libyan Dictator:

quote:

NATO destroys Gaddafi forces of about 30 cars coming in from South East of city heading for port.

Change in Libya also posted this:

quote:

UNCONFIRMED reports that NATO jets targeted a very important figure in Gaddafi's army today on road from Tripoli to Zawiya

Also another of the weapons recovered in Misarata, any ideas what it is? http://twitpic.com/4pt9xm

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 26, 2011

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

Jenan Moussa of Arabic Al Aan TV from Dubai is Tweeting a very annoying development:

What are these Sulafites?

Brown Moses posted:

Also another of the weapons recovered in Misarata, any ideas what it is? http://twitpic.com/4pt9xm

Bolt-action sniper rifles like this are difficult to identify. For instance, that stock and the sight rail may be an aftermarket modifications.

I tried looking up the one that appeared in the Misarata video a few pages back and ended up wasting an evening. There's a lot of rifles that have those features but none I could find that looked like it.

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DELETED
Nov 14, 2004
Disgruntled

Young Freud posted:

What are these Sulafites?


Bolt-action sniper rifles like this are difficult to identify. For instance, that stock and the sight rail may be an aftermarket modifications.

I tried looking up the one that appeared in the Misarata video a few pages back and ended up wasting an evening. There's a lot of rifles that have those features but none I could find that looked like it.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to tell without seeing the other side of the gun or the bore. It's definitely not a Dragunov as posted in the comments, though.

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