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Pedrophile posted:Looks like the stories of mercenaries being paid with gold are somewhat true, a video of supplies and such taken: The gun at 0:46 is a Mark 19 40mm grenade launcher, which is frankly surprising because its an American-made weapon, manufactured by General Dynamics. I'd have thought these guys would be using those 30mm Russian auto-grenade launchers. Also, that's a lot of scoped FN FALs. I can only imagine that these were sniper weapons.
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 22:09 |
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# ? May 12, 2024 05:18 |
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His name has been thrown around a lot in this thread, but who is Nato, anyway?
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 22:34 |
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Young Freud posted:The gun at 0:46 is a Mark 19 40mm grenade launcher, which is frankly surprising because its an American-made weapon, manufactured by General Dynamics. I'd have thought these guys would be using those 30mm Russian auto-grenade launchers. That's some pretty decent firepower for the rebels to get their hands on, no doubt those tall building in Misarata now have rebel snipers sat in them.
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 22:38 |
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Brown Moses posted:That's some pretty decent firepower for the rebels to get their hands on, no doubt those tall building in Misarata now have rebel snipers sat in them. If you think that's decent check out what some rebels managed to get their hands on: http://twitpic.com/4p6uww FN2000 with attached grenade launcher, a pricey weapon.
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 22:54 |
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That's one lucky rebel.
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 22:57 |
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Brown Moses posted:That's one lucky rebel. Dude musta killed one of those elite enemies to get that drop.
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 23:00 |
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According to Gaddafi's spokesman there should have been a zerg rush by 60,000 tribesmen on Misarata by now, but that doesn't seem to have materialised. I think the "we withdrew on purpose" story he was spinning can be safely filed under "bullshit". Gaddafi's forces got hosed in Misarata, plain and simple.
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 23:08 |
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From the Guardian:quote:AP has more on the situation in Deraa: quote:Syrian Jasmine, part of a network of Syrian cyber activists, has emailed an account of what happened in Deraa, based on contact with people in Syria. It says the shooting is continuing. We have no way of independently verifying the report: quote:Syrian American academic Mohja Kahf tweets that Syrian TV is offering a very different version of events in Deraa than that being reported by residents of the city: quote:In an article for Comment is Free, one of the Guardian's Middle East experts, Brian Whitaker, writes that the Syrian government's time-honoured methods of responding to protests may not work this time: quote:Assaults have been carried out on a number of places in Syria other than Derraa, writes Katherine Marsh: quote:Al-Jazeera reports that the borders between Syria and Jordan are definitely closed, despite the Syrian denials. quote:The crackdown in Syria has led to more opponents of the regime going underground, Katherine Marsh writes: Opposition apparently accepting GCC deal in Yemen, with some youth groups violently protesting.
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# ? Apr 25, 2011 23:52 |
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A ILL BREAKFAST posted:All I can think of is Liberia, Sudan, and other similar African countries where supposed freedom fighters have committed inhumane slaughter for years.. But in these particular ME countries it does seem to be more "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore" rather than "Let's slaughter this tribe with these sweet AKs we bought from the Russians/Americans/Chinese/French/Pirates etc." Official Theme Song of the Arab Spring
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 00:20 |
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Dude musta killed one of those elite enemies to get that drop. From way earlier in the thread, but those weapons, along with other Fabrique Nationale guns like the P90s and Five-Seven, were linked to an "counter-terrorist" battalion inside the Khamis brigade. If Khamis' brigade, possibly the elite of the elite in the Libyan army, was routed out of Misurata, no wonder Qaddafi isn't speaking a whole lot about them anymore.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 00:37 |
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Young Freud posted:Also, that's a lot of scoped FN FALs. I can only imagine that these were sniper weapons. There's just a shitload of FALs in general, both in rebel hands and in Loyalist hands. I've also seen a shitton of FN LARs alongdside the FN FALs in rebel hands. They both have been in general issue with the Libyan army since the 1970s, which explains how so many of them are turning up. Apparentely, Gaddafi had so many of them, he actually gave a big number of them to the Provisional IRA in the 1980s. No wonder they called the FAL "The Right Arm of the Free World" back in the Cold War.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 01:46 |
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Ace Oliveira posted:Is there any chance things will blow up in Syria now that Assad is outright murdering people? This is the same sort of poo poo that happened in Libya back in february. In the past they leveled a town called Hama and killed 20,000 when the Muslim Brotherhood challenged the Syrian government. The government is likely to do everything to keep in power. They're Alawites and a minority in Syria and minority's aren't popular in the Middle East. Going against Israel was their main justification of being in power. If they can't contain the rebellions conventionally, I can see them using chemical weapons.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 03:56 |
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Dude musta killed one of those elite enemies to get that drop. If this is a reference to what I think it is, I love you.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 04:18 |
BCR posted:In the past they leveled a town called Hama and killed 20,000 when the Muslim Brotherhood challenged the Syrian government. The government is likely to do everything to keep in power. They're Alawites and a minority in Syria and minority's aren't popular in the Middle East. Going against Israel was their main justification of being in power. If they can't contain the rebellions conventionally, I can see them using chemical weapons. Oh hush. There's no evidence of any sectarian aspect to the Syria situation. You don't know anything.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 04:37 |
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I was using a past example that the Syrian government when it feels threatened will go all out to crush all opposition. You're not going to get any civil war where the government divides. You've got the security services made up of one tribal group that has kept its boot firmly on the face of a whole country. It'll be the government against the people. They've already started. http://tinyurl.com/5trc4r2 http://tinyurl.com/3fq9qz9 http://tinyurl.com/6hv42ht BCR fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Apr 26, 2011 |
# ? Apr 26, 2011 05:51 |
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Kenning posted:Oh hush. There's no evidence of any sectarian aspect to the Syria situation. You don't know anything. True, but their being essentially Shi'ite and the ruling class is why they're the Iranian satellite state. Syrian instability will probably be more influential for the next several years of the Pan-Arab world than any of the other revolts, even Egypt.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 07:46 |
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I was reading this article about Misarata from a couple of days ago, and came acros this section:quote:The uprising began on 19 February, a small demonstration called in support of the people of Benghazi in the east, whose own protests had been crushed by the government. For 14 days the people of Misrata controlled the city. Some say it was the greatest time of their lives. People flooded the streets, crying with joy. But they knew Gaddafi's forces would come back. And they were prepared. When a large convoy of Gaddafi tanks and armoured vehicles reached the city on 6 March, they met no resistance and were drawn into the city centre. I thought I'd have a look at what I had posted on that day, to see if the reports I posted matched up with the above events: quote:LibyanYouthMovement tweets: "We are getting reports from Misrata that the city is free and they have captured some of the pro gaddafi forces #Libya #Feb17." quote:And LibyaInMe also tweets: "CONFIRMED: #Gaddafi's men backed out of Misrata. 10 killed incl. a 2 yr. 10 of Gaddafi's men have been detained. #feb17 #libya." quote:Now Reuters is quoting a resident of Misrata as saying the rebels have repelled an attack by regime forces on the town. quote:A resident in Misrata gives more details to Reuters of the rebels' success in driving back government forces saying: "The revolutionaries captured 20 soldiers and seized a tank. The town is now fully in the control of the youths." quote:This video has emerged onine in the past few hours, and claims to show the city of Misurata after opposition fighters saw off attacks by Gaddafi's troops. It shows shell-damaged buildings and burnt out tanks. It's on Facebook, so we can't embed it here. To watch it, you'll have to click here. Like the other videos we've been sent via third-party sites, we've got no way of independently verifying its veracity. quote:We're getting reports from Misurata that 16 Gaddafi soldiers, and 18 armed anti-Gaddafi fighters, were killed in today's fighting. There are at least 71 wounded, and nine in critical condition, we understand.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 08:57 |
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Ace Oliveira posted:Where's Nasufa? I haven't heard anything about that city. Just to come back to this, Nasufa is a western mountain region that's currently under heavy attack by Gaddafi's forces. Probably the most significant areas are the town of Nalut, population of about 100k, and the Tunisian/Libya border crossing that's about 10-15km to the west, that you might remember was recently captured by the rebels after Gaddafi's troops fled across the border. Here's the map of the region. The main thing to understand about that area is it's very moutainous, and there's alot of cave networks that the people of the region are very familiar with, and are using as shelter from Gaddafi bombardments. From all the reports I've seen the fighting is less focused on the towns in the area, and there's been plenty of fighting outside of cities, and if Twitter is to be believed Gaddafi's forces are struggling to control the area. Just for an example here's a couple of recent Tweets from the region: quote:50 #Gaddafi forces were killed, and many others surrendered in #Nalut quote:Gaddafi forces are using boy soldiers. A 15 yr old was captured in Emjabra today and has been taken in by a local family. quote:14 men from a #Gaddafi brigade were captured by freedom fighters in Emjabra today and taken to a POW camp. quote:in solidarity with their fellow Libyans of #Nafusa, Libyans abroad sent convoys of medical and fuel supplies to #Zintan Again, it's Twitter, so it can't be verified. What's changed today is a Al Jazeera English reporter has managed to reach the region, and just posted this video report on the AJE site: quote:Further west in the Nafusa mountains of Libya, an area that has remained largely inaccessible to journalists, rebels have been under siege from Muammar Gaddafi's forces for two months. So to think of this conflict to be focused around just Benghazi in the East and Misarata in the West is really rather misleading, especially as it feeds into the arguement that Libya will end up split in two once Misarata falls. There's at least one of major region in the west where there's heavy fighting, so to think that Misarata is the beginning and the end of the conflict in the West is just wrong. [edit] There's unverifiable rumours on Twitter that violence has erupted in Zawiyah again, but with no reporters allowed anywhere near there it's impossible to verify. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Apr 26, 2011 |
# ? Apr 26, 2011 09:22 |
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Live Blogs April 26th AJE Syria AJE Libya Guardian LibyaFeb17.com Misarata quote:Xan Rice, our colleague who is in Misrata on a surprisingly good line, says there has been a lull in the intense shelling of the only rebel-held city in western Libya. quote:Xan has just been back on the line to say that he's hearing that Nato might have taken out some of the Libyan government artillery, which explains the lull in today's shelling. So rebel frustration at Nato has eased considerably. The WFP put out this press release detailing aid delivered to Misarata and beyond: quote:CAIRO – A ship chartered by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) has delivered more than 500 metric tons of food assistance, three ambulances, medical supplies and other relief items on behalf of humanitarian partners to the Libyan town of Misrata. This is the second time this month that a WFP-chartered vessel has delivered food and relief to the people of Misrata.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 10:09 |
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quote:A Nato attack on a compound used by Gaddafi caused an "amazing scene" of destruction, our colleague, Harriet Sherwood, reports from Tripoli. It'll be interesting to see what effect that has, whether it'll lead to more unrest among Libyans, or harden their attitude towards the rebels and NATO. It'll be interesting to know if the Libyan army are having the same issues with fuel supplies as well.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 10:37 |
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I'm starting to wonder if Western nations might use the situation in Syria to as leverage with Turkey, seeing as Turkey has had strong diplomatic relations with Syria, and would see itself as a natural leader in the resolution of the conflict.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 11:42 |
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Seems Gaddafi got his hands on some fuel :quote:Libya imported gasoline from Italian refiner Saras in early April, taking advantage of a loophole in United Nations sanctions that permits purchases by companies not on a UN list of banned entities. Hopefully that'll be nipped in the bud during the meeting. Other news from Libya, via the never reliable Twitter: quote:@alextomo Off coast of Misrata - thud of shelling clearly audible across calm, deserted waters #c4news All from ChangeinLibya in the last 20 minutes: quote:Misrata: Revolutionary commanders say that they are being bombarded by Gaddafi's LUNA-M missile launchers based in Zlitn 50-60km away quote:550kg with a range of up to 80km I think... there were at least 3 craters that are 5 metres deep and 15m wide in city quote:Misrata: Confirmed: NATO jets have been bombarding Gaddafi forces in the outskirts of the city for over an hour & flying low These are Luna Missiles. quote:@LibyaAlHurra UNCONFIRMED REPORT VIA Military Information Council of Mount #Nefusa: Freedom Fighters capture mercenaries in #Majabrp and other Gadafi forces raised white flags and surrendered. It appears that among those who surrendered were officers and soldiers from the Air Force who said that Gadafi's offensive experienced a substantial shortfall in the ranks of ground forces. This seemed to be further validated by the Gaddafi using his Navy for fighting in the desert, mountains and sand [instead of sea], the report said.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 12:42 |
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I remember hearing in World War 2, the Germans ended up pulling the same tactic of making up whatever absences in manpower in their ground forces by bringing in Kriegsmarine sailors and having them act as soldiers. It didn't work out well for them either.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 12:48 |
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News from Egypt:quote:Habib al-Adly, Egypt's ex-interior minister, has gone on trial in Cairo for the second time.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 13:02 |
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Afternoon summary from the Guardian:quote:• Syrian security forces have shot dead at least 400 civilians in the crackdown against pro-democracy protesters, says the Syrian human rights organisation, Sawasiah. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said security police arrested a prominent rights campaigner Qassem al-Ghazzawi in his home city of Deir al-Zor in eastern Syria. Residents say there was gunfire in Deraa, the focal point of protests, this morning. Also from Twitter: quote:Tripoli: Gaddafi State TV says that NATO destroyed the main submarine fiber optic cable connecting the capital's networks to Sirte's
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 13:09 |
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The Channel 4 reporter Alex Thomson has just posted a blog from an aid ship that's arrived in Misarata from Benghazi in the past few hours:quote:We left Benghazi last night and are due to dock in Misrata shortly.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 13:56 |
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Brown Moses posted:Libya imported gasoline from Italian refiner Saras in early April, taking advantage of a loophole in United Nations sanctions that permits purchases by companies not on a UN list of banned entities. (nevermind, missed the part about it being an explicit loophole in the sanctions) Seems like Saras would be a good target for a boycott for that stunt. Does Italy have enough spare refining capacity that fuel distributors could take their business elsewhere? AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 26, 2011 |
# ? Apr 26, 2011 14:24 |
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Brown Moses posted:Just to come back to this, Nasufa is a western mountain region that's currently under heavy attack by Gaddafi's forces. Probably the most significant areas are the town of Nalut, population of about 100k, and the Tunisian/Libya border crossing that's about 10-15km to the west, that you might remember was recently captured by the rebels after Gaddafi's troops fled across the border. Here's the map of the region. Nafusa was one of the earliest centres of resistance in the West during the colonial period. Sulayman al-Baruni's rebel government was based there until the Italians defeated him in 1913. For that matter Misrata was a pretty important too. The Italians were forced out of the city in 1915 and the Tripolitanian Republic was declared there in 1918. Not sure if there's any significance to the fact that these are the major rebel areas in the west today but it's interesting to see some of the historical echoes.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 14:31 |
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Latest news from Twitter is that Gaddafi's forces are throwing everything they've got at the port in Misarata, and hitting the refugee camp nearby as well.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 14:41 |
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Save the Children UK has put out this press release:quote:Save the Children receives reports of child rape in Libya
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 16:05 |
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Brown Moses posted:Save the Children UK has put out this press release: This makes me want to kill everything. Ugh, why couldn't we have all just died in a large-scale nuclear war during the cold war?
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 16:12 |
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Brown Moses posted:Save the Children UK has put out this press release: drat, that is really sobering. I don't think we can ever hope to measure the full extent of the damage caused by CQ's tyranny. We can only hope that it ends very quickly.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 17:32 |
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ChaosSamusX posted:drat, that is really sobering. I don't think we can ever hope to measure the full extent of the damage caused by CQ's tyranny. We can only hope that it ends very quickly. Terrible as it is, such atrocities are usually committed by both sides in any war.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 17:36 |
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I wonder how many of the Syrian protesters are veterans of the wars in Lebanon in the 80s? Does that experience mean that the Syrian Army's better at urban warfare than the Libyans? Where does Hizballah stand in all of this? Sorry for all the questions, I hope the Syrians in Deraa can fight back the same was as Benghazi did, but there are so many differences between the 2 countries.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 17:36 |
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Save the Children posted:The reports of sexual violence against children are unconfirmed The cynical part of me wouldn't be surprised if StC are reporting hearsay as an opportunity to draw attention to their work. I hope nothing like what they report is happening over there though:(
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 17:47 |
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Jut posted:The cynical part of me wouldn't be surprised if StC are reporting hearsay as an opportunity to draw attention to their work. That sounds more like optimism to me.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 17:52 |
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Couple of things from Twitter. First of all it seems two aid ships are waiting outside of Misarata, unable to dock because of intense Gaddafi shelling of the docks. NATO aircraft are flying overhead, but it's hard to tell if they are making a difference. William Hague also UK foreign minister, has all but said the UK government recognises the NTC as the government of Libya, at the same time sticking to his "we recognise states not governments" line.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 18:24 |
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Jenan Moussa of Arabic Al Aan TV from Dubai is Tweeting a very annoying development:quote:BREAKING: 20 car aid convoy from #egypt extremist salafites, now at #salloum border, ready 2 cross into #libya.Libyans want convoy stopped. quote:Angry #libya(n) citizen called me from border: "salafites should stay away. Nobody in rebel held #Libya wants these pple." quote:Convoy is carrying extremist banners and some #libya(ns) r trying to convince group not to enter #libya. quote:Just spoke to source again @ #egypt border:"#egypt(ian) salafites refuse to listen, refuse to put down banners, refuse to turn back." And some good news (if true) just posted by Libyan Dictator: quote:NATO destroys Gaddafi forces of about 30 cars coming in from South East of city heading for port. Change in Libya also posted this: quote:UNCONFIRMED reports that NATO jets targeted a very important figure in Gaddafi's army today on road from Tripoli to Zawiya Also another of the weapons recovered in Misarata, any ideas what it is? http://twitpic.com/4pt9xm Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Apr 26, 2011 |
# ? Apr 26, 2011 18:38 |
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Brown Moses posted:Jenan Moussa of Arabic Al Aan TV from Dubai is Tweeting a very annoying development: What are these Sulafites? Brown Moses posted:Also another of the weapons recovered in Misarata, any ideas what it is? http://twitpic.com/4pt9xm Bolt-action sniper rifles like this are difficult to identify. For instance, that stock and the sight rail may be an aftermarket modifications. I tried looking up the one that appeared in the Misarata video a few pages back and ended up wasting an evening. There's a lot of rifles that have those features but none I could find that looked like it.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 18:55 |
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# ? May 12, 2024 05:18 |
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Young Freud posted:What are these Sulafites? Yeah, it's kind of hard to tell without seeing the other side of the gun or the bore. It's definitely not a Dragunov as posted in the comments, though.
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# ? Apr 26, 2011 18:57 |