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Little update from ChangeInLibya:quote:Misrata: Revolutionaries block a Gaddafi attack from the east and @NATO jets are striking Gaddafi in the outskirts now quote:Clarification of Misrata curfew: Being imposed on families by freedom fighters so that they can defend and guard streets at night Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 18:34 on May 1, 2011 |
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May 1, 2011 18:32
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Namarrgon posted:The funny thing is that even if it's all true and Gaddafi murders everyone in Misrata there'd still be people in this very thread arguing against intervention! If he uses chemical weapons despite a month of airstrikes, then the only thing that's going to stop him is a ground invasion. Call me evil, but I'd rather the nation I live in doesn't embark on a third ground war in 10 years.
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May 1, 2011 19:42
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Wait with 'intervention' I mean what we're doing right now. Is there a double meaning I'm unaware of?
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May 1, 2011 19:49
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It is entirely in the realm of possibility that the rebels could be fabricating or exagerrating claims of napalm bombs and gas masks in response to the claim that Gadaffi's son has been killed. There's very much a propaganda war going on here, and NATO tends to react depending on what the rebels are communicating.
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May 1, 2011 19:56
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At least it'll be pretty obvious if it's true or not in the next 24 hours because of the amount of foreign journalists in Misarata.
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May 1, 2011 20:05
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VikingSkull posted:If he uses chemical weapons despite a month of airstrikes, then the only thing that's going to stop him is a ground invasion. Call me evil, but I'd rather the nation I live in doesn't embark on a third ground war in 10 years. Maybe the euros can curtail some of their nice social programs to pay for some more ammo if it comes to that. Instead of pointing fingers at us to do something, while simultaneously laughing about how backwards we are with no health care and homeless people everywhere. Meanwhile the Italians seem to be primarily concerned only about keeping refugees out, mistreating or repatriating the ones who have actually made it, and begging for money to compensate them for what little aid they have actually given.
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May 1, 2011 20:07
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Pedrophile posted:If Gadaffi just happens to be next to a radar dish or a missile launcher or something that could be possibly used to murder a Libyan well then that's just collateral damage. USAF_Rules_of_Engagement.txt
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May 1, 2011 20:19
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Claims on Twitter that an aid ship was hit by Gaddafi in Misarata's port, killing two people.
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May 1, 2011 21:00
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Baddog posted:Maybe the euros can curtail some of their nice social programs to pay for some more ammo if it comes to that. Instead of pointing fingers at us to do something, while simultaneously laughing about how backwards we are with no health care and homeless people everywhere. You sound bitter.
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May 1, 2011 21:04
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Well if we end up putting forces on the ground anyone want to join me in starting a portable shitter company and grab a few contracts over there?
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May 1, 2011 21:09
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Well since Gadaffi covered the guy with a green tarp it can either mean two things: 1, that the body really isn't his son 2, there is a very big hole in the guy's face he doesn't want us to see
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May 1, 2011 21:14
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Pedrophile posted:Well since Gadaffi covered the guy with a green tarp it can either mean two things: Or maybe he doesn't want his dead kid on display like a trophy, or maybe a combination of that and 2, or maybe he is doing like any culture in the world and wanting to cover him out of respect?
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May 1, 2011 21:19
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shotgunbadger posted:Or maybe he doesn't want his dead kid on display like a trophy, or maybe a combination of that and 2, or maybe he is doing like any culture in the world and wanting to cover him out of respect? Considering how much bullshit Gaddafi and his regime like to make up for propaganda usage, there's no reason people shouldn't be suspicious about these things. Gaddaffi did the same sort of thing in 1986 when we bombed his house.
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May 1, 2011 21:24
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Ace Oliveira posted:Considering how much bullshit Gaddafi and his regime like to make up for propaganda usage, there's no reason people shouldn't be suspicious about these things. Gaddaffi did the same sort of thing in 1986 when we bombed his house. Except the whole 'the bombing of my home killed my baby' isn't the most insane claim and was never really proven wrong other then 'well it's Gaddafi!' I'm not saying it's definitely true but there's no reason to believe or disbelieve it yet really.
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May 1, 2011 21:28
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shotgunbadger posted:Except the whole 'the bombing of my home killed my baby' isn't the most insane claim and was never really proven wrong other then 'well it's Gaddafi!' 'Well it's Gaddafi!' is a pretty solid reason to disbelieve this latest claim seeing as the guy's been constantly lying to the world ever since the first protests started. Don't forget that the regime's made claims about supposed casualties before and they were pretty transparently false. Crameltonian fucked around with this message at 22:05 on May 1, 2011 |
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May 1, 2011 21:56
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Crameltonian posted:'Well it's Gaddafi!' is a pretty solid reason to disbelieve this latest claim seeing as the guy's been constantly lying to the world ever since the first protests started. Pretty sure his argument is that "I don't believe that" and "I disproved that" are two very different things.
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May 1, 2011 22:08
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evilweasel posted:Pretty sure his argument is that "I don't believe that" and "I disproved that" are two very different things. Yea it's totally cool if you don't believe it, yea the dude is not a great source, especially in matters of 'poo poo the west has done to him' and it's just fine to look at him and go 'nope, not into that story', but acting as if it was disproved or something is silly.
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May 1, 2011 22:13
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If Gadaffi didn't want to put his family in harm's way then he should have stopped shooting civilians. Edit: also thank your local service member for taking part in the intervention Pedrophile fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 1, 2011 |
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May 1, 2011 22:14
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Pedrophile posted:Well since Gadaffi covered the guy with a green tarp it can either mean two things: 3.One of the bodies is Gadaffi himself! Pedrophile posted:If Gadaffi didn't want to put his family in harm's way then he should have stopped shooting civilians. 
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May 1, 2011 22:20
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Brown Moses posted:If he uses gas in Misarata on a large scale then it'll be such an awful crime that I doubt his pals in Russia will be unable to turn a blind eye to it. It's a little unlikely, assuming that the army acts rationally - nerve gases (or other gas weapons) are highly unuseful weapon, as it depends so greatly on air currents, which especially in a city can be highly unpredictable, and likely most defenders taking refuge inside buildings would be only slightly harmed. Meanwhile an attack force in air tight overalls (or just gas masks for less lethal gas weapons) will exhaust themselves very quickly in a desert climate at this time of year. It would, though, help a force to enter through defensive lines inside BMP's because those have overpressure systems to provide ABC protection. But I don't know if that would be really worth it.
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May 1, 2011 22:21
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Pedrophile posted:If Gadaffi didn't want to put his family in harm's way then he should have stopped shooting civilians. I'll thank no soldier for anything.
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May 1, 2011 22:38
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Nenonen posted:It's a little unlikely, assuming that the army acts rationally - nerve gases (or other gas weapons) are highly unuseful weapon, as it depends so greatly on air currents, which especially in a city can be highly unpredictable, and likely most defenders taking refuge inside buildings would be only slightly harmed. Meanwhile an attack force in air tight overalls (or just gas masks for less lethal gas weapons) will exhaust themselves very quickly in a desert climate at this time of year. It would, though, help a force to enter through defensive lines inside BMP's because those have overpressure systems to provide ABC protection. But I don't know if that would be really worth it. As much as I hope you are right I seriously wonder if Gaddafi is listening to his generals or not. I haven't really tracked his campaign so far and can't really tell if the loyalist forces are being intelligent or acting like they are just a extension of Gadaffi waving his arms around crazily. *edit* The example I am drawing from is Hitler near the end of WWII. Just food for thought. Deverse fucked around with this message at 22:44 on May 1, 2011 |
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May 1, 2011 22:42
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The fetishization of the armed forces is the last thing any sane person should be doing.
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May 1, 2011 22:43
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I can't imagine anything more mutually uncomfortable then randomly thanking a soldier for killing dudes. Like I can at least get the general 'thanks for your service' types, kinda, but I don't get how thanking him for a specific involvement would not just make us both very uneasy.
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May 1, 2011 22:55
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Deverse posted:As much as I hope you are right I seriously wonder if Gaddafi is listening to his generals or not. I haven't really tracked his campaign so far and can't really tell if the loyalist forces are being intelligent or acting like they are just a extension of Gadaffi waving his arms around crazily. It is of course not something that we can tell in advance. Nevertheless, if we look at an Arab dictator that DID under specific circumstances try checmical weapons, Saddam Hussein, but in much more dire situations didn't, we might assume that it's a tactic that simply wouldn't be worth it. Of course this doesn't rule it out, but still it's unlikely.
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May 1, 2011 23:02
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Well for me personally I think it would be hypocritical of myself to not show any appreciation for the people deployed in a humanitarian mission that I support.
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May 1, 2011 23:53
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Pedrophile posted:Well for me personally I think it would be hypocritical of myself to not show any appreciation for the people deployed in a humanitarian mission that I support. Well, they're still killing people. I mean, it's good that they're fighting Gaddafi's soldiers so they don't burn down the entire country, but they're still killing people.
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May 2, 2011 00:11
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:It is entirely in the realm of possibility that the rebels could be fabricating or exagerrating claims of napalm bombs and gas masks in response to the claim that Gadaffi's son has been killed. There's very much a propaganda war going on here, and NATO tends to react depending on what the rebels are communicating. I'm certain I ran across this video a few days earlier than the 28th under another Youtube account with most of the comments and the post in Arabic. Possible Napalm, or perhaps just liquid fuel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5dtDcjQMFo shotgunbadger posted:Except the whole 'the bombing of my home killed my baby' isn't the most insane claim and was never really proven wrong other then 'well it's Gaddafi!' This article on the 1986 incident was linked to in an Al Jazeera English blog post: http://www.aim.org/aim-column/nbc%E2%80%99s-mitchell-regurgitates-gaddafi-lies/
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May 2, 2011 00:28
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I love the whole concept of "humanitarian" missions that involve killing a shitload of people. Why can't we call it what it is. At least pedrophile is correct that if you support such doublethink missions, you should show some appreciation for the people who actually have to go do them. Instead of being creeped out that you are standing next to someone who might have actually killed some people because he was ordered to.
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May 2, 2011 00:29
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shotgunbadger posted:Or maybe he doesn't want his dead kid on display like a trophy, or maybe a combination of that and 2, or maybe he is doing like any culture in the world and wanting to cover him out of respect? But putting his dead kid on tv is kind of already doing that. I mean if it really happened might as well show everyone the dead body without any covering on it if you're already willing to broadcast the image of it with a tarp on. I don't think I'm very smart, so I'm surprised this isn't obvious to you as well. Such cases I suppose.
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May 2, 2011 01:33
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Ace Oliveira posted:Well, they're still killing people. I mean, it's good that they're fighting Gaddafi's soldiers so they don't burn down the entire country, but they're still killing people. And Gaffy is sniping people from 100 yards in the head that protest and shooting AA into locals. Call it even I guess.
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May 2, 2011 02:31
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President Obama to make a statement at 10:30PM - it could be about Libya, it could be about Syria, it could be about the status of cheese production in Wisconsin. My guess is - Qaddafi is dead.
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May 2, 2011 03:07
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MaoistBanker posted:President Obama to make a statement at 10:30PM - it could be about Libya, it could be about Syria, it could be about the status of cheese production in Wisconsin. People can't keep secrets like that in Washington. If it was anything important it'd have leaked.
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May 2, 2011 03:12
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That's 10 30 et right? Does anyone have a stream? edit- found one http://www.whitehouse.gov/live
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May 2, 2011 03:19
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automatic posted:That's 10 30 et right? Does anyone have a stream? Gotta love the government, HD too!
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May 2, 2011 03:29
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Whitehouse.gov and CSPAN.Org are loving awesome. Here's another that's currently running with commentator analysis. http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/ automatic fucked around with this message at 03:33 on May 2, 2011 |
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May 2, 2011 03:31
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So this is about OBL?!? loving awesome. Glad that motherfucker is dead, but I hope this doesn't overshadow Libya too much. automatic fucked around with this message at 03:53 on May 2, 2011 |
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May 2, 2011 03:41
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Just heard the news, guessing this probably warrants a thread of its own given that it's Osama. Assuming that it's true of course
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May 2, 2011 03:57
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evilweasel posted:People can't keep secrets like that in Washington. If it was anything important it'd have leaked. Apparently they can
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May 2, 2011 05:42
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evilweasel posted:People can't keep secrets like that in Washington. If it was anything important it'd have leaked. Can I be among the first to say: lol
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May 2, 2011 05:56
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