|
evilweasel posted:People can't keep secrets like that in Washington. If it was anything important it'd have leaked. woops!
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 06:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 22:13 |
|
|
With Usama dead, I'm going to guess that the name Saif Al Arab is only ever going to show up again in history books of the Libyan Civil War.Al Jazeera posted:
Misrata Rumor posted:attack coming to misurata from the airport...they are not being allowed to retreat or they will be shot by their own side, Wow, because throwing tanks and soldiers at Misrata has been such a clever and successful plan. I'm suprised they have any combat units left to throw in there. It sounds like those are the very last operational tanks in the area too. Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 12:52 on May 2, 2011 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 12:42
|
|
|
Deverse posted:Well if we end up putting forces on the ground anyone want to join me in starting a portable shitter company and grab a few contracts over there? Kenny's already submitted a tender... Kenny posted:
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 13:23
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:At least it'll be pretty obvious if it's true or not in the next 24 hours because of the amount of foreign journalists in Misarata. Oh yes, we can certainly rely on those US/EU/Arab League associated journalists to get to the bottom of this. Maybe 6-12 months after Gaddafi is dead and buried, we'll get an accurate review (if someone calls them on their poo poo).
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 15:49
|
|
|
Unknowing posted:Oh yes, we can certainly rely on those US/EU/Arab League associated journalists to get to the bottom of this. Maybe 6-12 months after Gaddafi is dead and buried, we'll get an accurate review (if someone calls them on their poo poo). I'd rather rely on them than the twitter bullshit mill.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 16:29
|
|
|
Unknowing posted:Oh yes, we can certainly rely on those US/EU/Arab League associated journalists to get to the bottom of this. Maybe 6-12 months after Gaddafi is dead and buried, we'll get an accurate review (if someone calls them on their poo poo). By that metric there's no such thing as an accurate source anyway, so might as well take what we have.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 16:31
|
|
|
Unknowing posted:Oh yes, we can certainly rely on those US/EU/Arab League associated journalists to get to the bottom of this. Maybe 6-12 months after Gaddafi is dead and buried, we'll get an accurate review (if someone calls them on their poo poo). Do you really think that all journalists that cover US conflicts are in favor of them? You must be really sheltered.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 17:53
|
|
|
Unknowing posted:Oh yes, we can certainly rely on those US/EU/Arab League associated journalists to get to the bottom of this. So the straight-shooters are the Chinese and Iranians?
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 19:10
|
|
|
Few bits of news:quote:Reuters Residents say the besieged town of Yefren say there is a dire need for food, drinking water and medical supplies. Young children are especially vulnerable and if help doesn’t arrive soon, there will be a large number of casualties in the next few weeks, a refugee said. quote:Reuters Gaddafi forces halted their bombardment of Misrata after NATO conducted air strikes, but the port is still closed. “There were strikes by NATO on the outskirts of the city today at around midday (1000 GMT),” a spokesman, called Reda, told Reuters by telephone. “The port is still closed. Gaddafi’s forces bombarded it earlier today. The bombardment has now stopped.” quote:NATO 2 of the 3 sea mines that were laid by Gaddafi forces in the port of Misrata have been destroyed. NATO minesweepers are still searching for a third drifting mine that is preventing aid supplies to the city. The mines were small and hard to detect but capable of doing serious damage to shipping. From what I heard an aid ship unloaded in port yesterday, so it might be more of a case that aid ships have to decide to take a risk when unloading, especially as it was said the aid ship from yesterday was unloading while under fire.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 19:17
|
|
|
el samayo grande posted:So the straight-shooters are the Chinese and Iranians? Don't forget Russians, especially that wholesome young lad Putin.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 19:38
|
|
|
Here's a photo of one of the mines: http://i.imgur.com/syPKF.jpg Friday morning a french frigate guided by a recon plane intercepted some boats going towards Misrata at high speeds. When they didn't stop, it fired warning shots; a number of the boats turned around while another one sunk. On closer inspection they found this mine, then two others. (I know nothing of naval warfare - did the french "miss" one of the warning shots and sink that boat ? And how hard is it to catch a drifting mine once it's been localized ?)
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 20:10
|
|
|
Pureauthor posted:By that metric there's no such thing as an accurate source anyway, so might as well take what we have. To be totally fair that is a valid point to bring up since both sides are so heavily entrenched in propaganda wars as well. Of course, he put it in a totally douchey way that just came off as 'so gently caress everything I'mma listen to random twitters!' so that sure didn't help.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 20:14
|
|
|
More tweeting. cjchivers CJ Chivers Misrata port closed tday to all shipping. Qad forces' attacks there have denied access, threaten to cut off city from sea. 10 minutes ago It was retweeted by another user that I saw in just a minute, I'm just hoping to see more original information instead of retweets...
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 20:29
|
|
SoroScrew
|
pylb posted:Here's a photo of one of the mines: There was mention earlier in one of the news feeds that they had purposely sank 3 of the inflatable rafts with mines in them as a deployment method. I'm betting the frigate interrupted Gad's troops just as they were starting n' ran them off. And floating mines aren't easy to find from what I understand. The current is probably tossing them around haphazardly, making retrieval difficult and it's hard to spot something the size of a basketball in a large body of water. thiswayliesmadness fucked around with this message at 20:34 on May 2, 2011 |
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 20:30
|
|
|
pylb posted:Here's a photo of one of the mines: would have expected them to be painted blue if he wants them hidden.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 20:48
|
|
|
Xandu posted:Do you really think that all journalists that cover US conflicts are in favor of them? You must be really sheltered. There is certainly a strong and consistent bias among the mainstream media. Most of the ostensiblity unbiased accounts are written such as to allow the authors to hedge their bets and cover their asses if and when their reports later come into question. Yes, some smaller outlets and humanitarian organizations do provide less biased reports, when able, but it's hardly easy (especially without an abundance of free time to seperate the wheat from the chaff). Safe to say the best way to do that is not to follow the Times, Guardian, or AJE. Given that most posters are taking any and all accusations levied against "Mad Dog" Gaddafhi at face value. It'd be better not to follow the news at all than to stick your face in the trough and eat what poo poo is offered to you.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 21:21
|
|
|
Jut posted:would have expected them to be painted blue if he wants them hidden. Sea water tends to be greenish in colour - that clear blue is what you get in parts of the Mediterranean. My bet is that those mines are made in Russia, China or the US, which would mean that they're intended for Atlantic or Pacific use. Also, what the hell? Small, free-floating contact mines? Those would be virtually uncontrollable. The only use I could see is spreading them out in a harbour or major shipping lane and telling the world "gently caress y'all". Then again, that sounds like Gaddafi...
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2011 23:16
|
|
|
Unknowing posted:Yes, some smaller outlets and humanitarian organizations do provide less biased reports, when able, but it's hardly easy (especially without an abundance of free time to seperate the wheat from the chaff). No, really. EDIT: Emphasis on the "able" there. Chortles fucked around with this message at 08:42 on May 3, 2011 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 06:15
|
|
|
The Guardian has this article about the situation in Misarata:quote:Muammar Gaddafi's forces have bombarded Misrata with missiles and tank fire, preventing ships carrying humanitarian aid from entering the port for a fourth straight day. NATO really needs to help out the rebels with protecting the port, it's essential they keep it open. Did anyone hear anything about ground combat in Misarata in the last couple of days?
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 08:42
|
|
|
NATO should Berlin airlift Misrata.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 09:13
|
|
|
automatic posted:NATO should Berlin airlift Misrata. That would solve the supply problem, but I doubt they could land considering the state of affairs near the airport. In other words, evacuating wounded and non-combatants wouldn't be feasible. Plus, there's always the chance of a misdrop, and thus supplying Gaddafi's troops. If I had to guess, though, NATO is probably working on something right now. Gonkish fucked around with this message at 10:16 on May 3, 2011 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 10:10
|
|
|
Gonkish posted:That would solve the supply problem, but I doubt they could land considering the state of affairs near the airport. Plus, there's always the chance of a misdrop, and thus supplying the Gaddafi's troops. If I had to guess, though, NATO is probably working on something right now. Yeah to give NATO credit they are quick to react to these situations that have appeared since the start of the intervention. There are simply factors we aren't aware of that inhibit instant solutions. People were quick to jump on them when they weren't wiping out armour outside Benghazi (if I remember correctly) but the situation on the ground was NATO could not target the land forces due to extreme dust storms.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 10:13
|
|
|
From what I can tell the shelling of Misarata stopped some time last night, and it's been a quiet night for the residents of the city. Not sure if it started up again in the morning.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 10:22
|
|
|
With the world's press focused on Bin Laden there's not much news coming from non-Twitter sources today. Here's NATO's report of their Monday strikes:quote:On May 2nd, NATO airplanes flew 158 sorties, 56 of which were intended as strike sorties. Key targets included in the vicinity of Misrata: 12 ammunition storages, 3 self-propelled artillery pieces. In the vicinity of Sirt: 2 armoured personnel carriers. In the vicinity of Ras Lanuf: 1 multiple rocket launcher. In the vicinity of Brega: 1 truck-mounted gun, 3 multiple rocket launchers. In the vicinity of Zintan: 1 ammunition storage. Key engagements are not intended to give a complete account of all targets which were engaged.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 10:34
|
|
|
After shutting down there embassay, Turkey's President gave a speech today which has a significant shift in tone after they tried to mediate between Gaddafi, the rebels and NATO:quote:Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has issued a clear call on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi to leave power immediately, saying he had turned a blind eye to Turkey's advice to stop bloodshed and appoint a new political leader to peacefully end an uprising against his rule. Hopefully this means that Turkey's opposition to NATO's actions in Libya have eased, and they will be willing to offer more than humanitarian assistance.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 12:46
|
|
|
ChangeInLibya is posting some interesting but unverifiable stuff:quote:Ajdabiya: Freedom fighters have strict orders to defend and hold positions 40kms west of the city but not to advance any further.. These orders are from the military command, as well as NATO. NATO is bombarding all supplies to Gaddafi troops in Brega. That's a reasonable explanation for why it's been so quiet in the East, and there's apparently been military analyists on AJ Arabic over the past week saying they believe Gaddafi's forces in the East are isolated and running low on supply, so it's slightly lower on the bullshit scale then some of ChangeInLibya's other Tweets.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 13:56
|
|
|
automatic posted:NATO should Berlin airlift Misrata. Nobody was shooting at Berlin during the Berlin airlift.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:01
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:Nobody was shooting at Berlin during the Berlin airlift. True, but the logistics involved are not impossible. We have complete air superiority. If we can't get ships in and we don't want boots on the ground it's pretty much our only option at this point.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:22
|
|
|
automatic posted:True, but the logistics involved are not impossible. We have complete air superiority. If we can't get ships in and we don't want boots on the ground it's pretty much our only option at this point. The berlin airlift involved landing cargo planes and unloading them, not parachuting supplies. Doing that in a city doesn't just require air superiority, it requires control of the ground to make sure the airplanes don't get blown up on the ground by artillery. Given the current Misrata situation that's not the case.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:25
|
|
|
I understand that the we are not literally going to recreate the Berlin airlift but there are only three options on the table. Establish a landing zone or a drop zone, clear the harbor or abandon the city to CQ. I think short term precision air drops until we can do something better seem to be the only way we can keep the rebels from getting starved out or outgunned.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:32
|
|
|
I'm also unclear if the rebels have cleared the airport of Gaddafi troops, if they can defend it well enough to prevent any planes being attacked on the ground, and if the airport is even functional at this point.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:33
|
|
|
I thought one of the things that has been established is that Gaddafi forces have no effective ground-to-air capabilities? (Neither do the rebels, but recently they're not the ones needing it.)
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:35
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:The berlin airlift involved landing cargo planes and unloading them, not parachuting supplies. Doing that in a city doesn't just require air superiority, it requires control of the ground to make sure the airplanes don't get blown up on the ground by artillery. Given the current Misrata situation that's not the case. Is parachuting supplies a bad idea? Especially now that we could track them via gps seems like it would be quite easy to pull off.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:40
|
|
|
Pureauthor posted:I thought one of the things that has been established is that Gaddafi forces have no effective ground-to-air capabilities? Gaddafi's forces still have access to anti-air weapons, and there's reports from NATO of a couple being destroyed each day, but they aren't capable of preventing the enforcement of the no-fly zone. The problem is, if you know a large cargo aircraft is either landing supplies or dropping them in one location on a regular basis over a long period of time it's pretty easy to move one of the few remaining AA vehicles to that location and shoot them down.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 14:41
|
|
|
automatic posted:I understand that the we are not literally going to recreate the Berlin airlift but there are only three options on the table. Establish a landing zone or a drop zone, clear the harbor or abandon the city to CQ. I think short term precision air drops until we can do something better seem to be the only way we can keep the rebels from getting starved out or outgunned. So seriously, do you think the CQ will go 'oh they're dropping supplies, well we better not go fire rockets at that area, that'd be MEAN' or something? Like, not only is that insanely dangerous for the pilots, it's going to get a poo poo ton of rebels gunned down while trying to feed their family.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 15:48
|
|
|
Ok so we let them starve to death and run out of ammo? I have confidence that billions of dollars worth of air to ground planes and missiles coupled with gps equipped precision drops can at least get some relief to the transitional government. If it is so easy for CQ to take out planes why aren't more dropping like flies? JPADS seem like a good idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_precision_airdrop_system#Operation What do you suggest? automatic fucked around with this message at 16:12 on May 3, 2011 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 16:09
|
|
|
automatic posted:Ok so we let them starve to death and run out of ammo? I do recall that NATO performed airdrops during Bosnia and I think that was prior to a no-fly zone. They simply flew above an danger altitudes but their precision was real lovely, with cases where people were getting crushed by aid drops. I think the only problem is that, regardless of how accurate we can have with airdrops, they still need large open areas for any type of air drop and Misarata doesn't really have a whole lot of those. Any large open areas are on the outside of the city and those are still filled with Qaddafi forces.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 16:20
|
|
|
automatic posted:Ok so we let them starve to death and run out of ammo? It's a lot easier to hit a low-flying cargo plane that's slowed down to landing speed than to hit an attack jet cruising overhead. It's probably a lot cheaper and easier to clear out the port again. Besides, one ship can carry so much more stuff than a plane, at a much lower cost. That's why almost all the food and supplies we export in general are transported by ship, not plane.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 16:25
|
|
|
The mustard gas rumour has started bouncing about Twitter again, with claims that a defected soldier has told the rebels Gaddafi plans to use it in the next 1-2 days.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 16:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 22:13 |
|
|
Brown Moses posted:The mustard gas rumour has started bouncing about Twitter again, with claims that a defected soldier has told the rebels Gaddafi plans to use it in the next 1-2 days. Between that, Justin Beiber (JBEIB!!), and everything else I've been hearing as of late on twitter, I'm not sure who to believe anymore...  (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2011 17:17
|
|
