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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:From now until the end, things just get realer and realer. Come back and read that post when you're through (and then again when you read BSC and The Heroes, since some of the plot threads are left dangling) and you'll have a laugh. Ahahaha I just read Glokta's proposal to Ardee. All I can say is, loving brilliant. And that he pulled it off in a believable way ... man it sucks that this is almost the end, this trilogy is amazing. The best part is, I have no idea what to expect. Of course, there's a side of me that says he only wrote what I spoilered to give some sort of hope for a semi-bright future for Logen and the gang, just so there's something to take away at the end. He's never been hesitant to be a cocksucker to his characters before...
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Apr 15, 2011 21:25
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It does sting a bit when it's all over with. It's one of those things you wish will go on forever and ever and ever... Luckily, the man is a loving book writing machine, and he seems to be in love with his own universe, so you still have plenty to look forward to. Onward to "Best Served Cold" and "The Heroes"!
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Apr 16, 2011 06:57
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Somehow or another I utterly missed the existence of Best Served Cold. I think I thought it was in the First Law trilogy and just outright skipped it. Just finished the Heroes yesterday. Since I have no desire whatsoever to read a book when I know what happens after it (strange quirk of mine, I know, but it bugs me), can somebody give me a basic plot summary of the book in spoiler? I know someone already put in the important bits, I'd just like a quick overview. And was I the only one that thought that Gorst would end up with the Father of Swords, especially since he lost both of his other swords? Also, I have a feeling that he'd have been better off going north. I think yanking him from the formalized politics of the Union entirely would help in the long run. Maybe cause him to gain some balance.
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Apr 19, 2011 20:08
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Best Served Cold plot summary (from memory, apologies if I missed or botched anything): A Styrian mercernary general named Monza is betrayed by her employer and almost killed (her brother WAS killed). She's kinda deformed and angry and embarks on a journey to get revenge on the 6 or 7 people who were in the room when she was betrayed. Shivers comes from the north to Styria to try to make a better life for himself and become a good person. He needs money, so he hooks up with Monza and helps her on her journey for a quick paycheck. Shivers starts the book as a happy-go-lucky guy trying to do right and be a better person, but slowly gets worn down to a bitter rear end in a top hat, just like Black Dow from the trilogy, I'd say. Monza starts the book (well, after her betrayal) as a bitter angry person seeking revenge, but slowly softens up and actually DOES become a better person. This is interesting because Shivers spends much of the book trying to make Monza a better person while she tries to 'corrupt' him. They end up trading places by the end of the book. I think by the end, Monza gets her revenge and becomes the grand duchess of Styria or whatever, while Shivers just gets sent back to the north in much worse state than he started in.. EDIT: Oh, and we get a detailed introduction to Cosca, who was the mercenary general that originally recruited Monza. He's a lovable, funny drunk who seems hyper competent at what he does, only when he applies himself. He's a pretty important part of the story too. syphon fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 19, 2011 |
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Apr 19, 2011 20:45
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Akrabbim posted:Somehow or another I utterly missed the existence of Best Served Cold. I think I thought it was in the First Law trilogy and just outright skipped it. Just finished the Heroes yesterday. Since I have no desire whatsoever to read a book when I know what happens after it (strange quirk of mine, I know, but it bugs me), can somebody give me a basic plot summary of the book in spoiler? I know someone already put in the important bits, I'd just like a quick overview. Seriously- get over your loving quirk. It has almost no bearing on "The Heroes" other than you know Shivers is going to survive, you know something happens to Gorst (which takes place over the course of like 5 loving pages, big whoop), and Monza is mentioned once or twice in "The Heroes". It is meant as a stand-alone in the same world, just like "The Heroes". READ IT!
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Apr 19, 2011 21:45
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While I recommend reading Best Served Cold, there's some other information that was missed in the above point that relates to the grander story. 1) Styria was basically a proxy war between Bayaz and Khalul 2) Bayaz had a second Eater apprentice named Shenkt, who turned his back on Bayaz; Shenkt is the father of Vitari's children and a tremendous badass and really hates Bayaz 3) Shenkt becomes an advisor to Monza as Duchess of Styria and has her turn away offers of aid and alliance from both the Union and the South, making Styria under Monza a nation independent of the machinations of the apprentices of Juvens HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Apr 20, 2011 |
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Apr 20, 2011 23:20
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:While I recommend reading Best Served Cold, there's some other information that was missed in the above point that relates to the grander story. 5) Shivers gets an eye burned out with a hot poker by people torturing him for information because they don't believe that he is telling them the truth. He then goes absolutely crazy and eventually just replaces his burned out eye with a steel ball. 6)A random Styrian noble likes piss play
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Apr 20, 2011 23:22
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Bizob posted:
Welp, glad I stopped reading a quarter into Last Argument of Kings
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Apr 21, 2011 15:05
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It's a throwaway joke, from what I remember. It's not some sort of Gurmish wank fantasy.
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Apr 21, 2011 15:27
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A relatively important character tells the main character that he likes strong women and asks if she'd piss on him. She just walks out. It's done more for comedic effect than anything, and nor is it much of a spoiler.
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Apr 21, 2011 16:08
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John Charity Spring posted:It's a throwaway joke, from what I remember. It's not some sort of Gurmish wank fantasy. I like to imagine Monza's incestuous relationship with her brother was a shoutout to GRRM.
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Apr 21, 2011 22:56
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:A relatively important character tells the main character that he likes strong women and asks if she'd piss on him. She just walks out. It's done more for comedic effect than anything, and nor is it much of a spoiler. Does she walk out? I kind of thought the scene cuts out at a point where she goes "well.....". Anyways, its a totally unimportant detail that I threw in there as a joke.
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Apr 21, 2011 22:58
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Bizob posted:Does she walk out? I kind of thought the scene cuts out at a point where she goes "well.....".
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Apr 22, 2011 01:29
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keiran_helcyan posted:I like to imagine Monza's incestuous relationship with her brother was a shoutout to GRRM. If said relationship actually happened. Shivers hears rumors from people who have a stake in spreading bad rumors about Monza (if I remember correctly), and you can certainly read it that way, but I think there was a lot of ambiguity there. Monza never explicitly denies it when Shivers accuses her, but she also never explicitly says it or even thinks it either. It's certainly not like GRRM, where it unquestionably happens. Bizob posted:Does she walk out? I kind of thought the scene cuts out at a point where she goes "well.....". Yeah I think reflir just wanted to smugly announce he quit the series halfway through for whatever reason
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Apr 22, 2011 09:43
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Yeah I think reflir just wanted to smugly announce he quit the series halfway through for whatever reason Yep, that's about right. I actually stopped reading because I didn't like the second book as much as the first (which I liked a lot) (with the exception of all the parts in the Old Empire, which were awesome), and the third seemed to be the second minus the Old Empire parts so there was really no point to it. Bayaz as a kingmaker isn't nearly as cool as Bayaz as a tour guide.
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Apr 22, 2011 11:16
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That's not what Bayaz is. But, eh, you're not going to go back to it.
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Apr 22, 2011 12:38
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John Charity Spring posted:That's not what Bayaz is. Hah, yeah, no kidding.. You missed some amazing stuff, there, reflir...
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Apr 23, 2011 04:58
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:If said relationship actually happened. Shivers hears rumors from people who have a stake in spreading bad rumors about Monza (if I remember correctly), and you can certainly read it that way, but I think there was a lot of ambiguity there. Monza never explicitly denies it when Shivers accuses her, but she also never explicitly says it or even thinks it either. It's certainly not like GRRM, where it unquestionably happens. I'm entirely sure there's a chapter from Monza's perspective where it's pretty blatant that she was in a sexual relationship with her brother
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Apr 24, 2011 06:39
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I just started with Joe Abercrombie after reading (and giving up) 3000+ pages of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. I sure hope I am not wasting my meager reading time again. So far so good.
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May 2, 2011 16:20
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hellvis454 posted:I just started with Joe Abercrombie after reading (and giving up) 3000+ pages of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. Abercrombie's better, and I say that as a Malazan fan.
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May 2, 2011 16:27
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I finished Best Served Cold two weeks ago, after picking it up on a whim to read on the plane. I'd heard about Abercrombie earlier, but boy am I glad I finally got around to him! Completely bleak but still comedic, despicable yet likeable characters... yeah, that was a pretty good read. Grabbed the First Law books right after I finished that, and unsurprisingly The Blade Itself is pret-ty good so far too, haha.
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May 4, 2011 05:30
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hellvis454 posted:I just started with Joe Abercrombie after reading (and giving up) 3000+ pages of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. I too gave up on Malazan and I love the First Law trilogy. I don't think you will be dissapointed.
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May 4, 2011 11:38
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hellvis454 posted:I just started with Joe Abercrombie after reading (and giving up) 3000+ pages of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. As long as you don't throw the books away again if you are disappointed. 
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May 6, 2011 10:05
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Decius posted:As long as you don't throw the books away again if you are disappointed. Rest assured brother, although trash should be throw into the proper paper recycling bin, a few 100 pages are (almost always) enough to know if I am reading garbage or not. Regarding the now-thrown-in-the-garbage Malazan books, I never could get into them. I ended reading 3000 pages of it, because, generally, I trust advices from goons in TBB. Cheers.
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May 6, 2011 15:43
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Crosspost from The Bad Thread:SammyWhereAreYou posted:Here's video of my boy Joe Abercrombie interviewing GRRM. Seeing these two side by side is kinda funny on its own.
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May 9, 2011 00:43
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I'm about a third of the way into Best Served Cold by now; how many years after the trilogy does it take place? There are a lot of familiar faces, but a decent amount of time seems to have passed. And how's The Heroes?
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May 9, 2011 18:53
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The Heroes is awesome like every other Abercrombie book.
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May 9, 2011 20:12
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Chamberk posted:I'm about a third of the way into Best Served Cold by now; how many years after the trilogy does it take place? There are a lot of familiar faces, but a decent amount of time seems to have passed. BSC takes place about 3 years following the end of TFL, and I believe The Heroes is about 5 years after the end of BSC (so about 8 years after the end of TFL). I'm not 100% sure on the timeline because I'm not sure exactly how long TFL and BSC take. TFL is definitely over a year, probably closer to 2, while BSC is probably around a year.
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May 9, 2011 20:30
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The Heroes is probably Abercrombie's strongest and most assured book yet - it doesn't have the scope and intricate plotting of the trilogy but it's a brilliant dissection of a single battle. Thematically very satisfying, and just very well written.
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May 9, 2011 23:41
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Awesome - the library near me has a copy, so I'll probably pick it up soon. The fact that it's all about one battle is kinda worrying, but Abercrombie writes great battles. If anything, I'm just worried that it might be a retread of that last battle up north in Last Argument of Kings.
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May 11, 2011 02:59
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Chamberk posted:Awesome - the library near me has a copy, so I'll probably pick it up soon. I think, if it were something like R.A. Salvatore's battles and their page-long descriptions of footwork, you'd be justified in being worried. What I especially like about Abercrombie is that he recognizes everything drives character, even fighting. So his battles aren't so much a break from characterization, but merely a continuation. I mean, remember when Shivers went nuts at the end of BSC?
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May 11, 2011 04:30
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Well, I'm still halfway through BSC. The siege at Visserine is pretty rad, though; Abercrombie does an awesome job with large-scale combat.
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May 11, 2011 15:04
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Finally finished the trilogy after picking the whole thing up for $6 (my local used bookstore hates trade paperbacks and hardcovers unless they're best-sellers or literary fiction). I was fairly impressed, especially for not being well-versed in fantasy outside of some Robert E. Howard and Michael Moorcock. Anyone else come out of the trilogy thinking Glokta was the most sympathetic of the main characters? I mean, he's pretty rotten, but he seems to know his place and have the best grasp on the big picture. Outside of Bayaz, I guess, but anyone that could sympathize with him is probably a sociopath. Maybe it's the way Glokta was written, with all of the sarcastic inner dialog. I really liked the inversion of character tropes, wherein the guy who looks like the hero is really ineffectual in the grand scheme of things, the guy who acts like the hero turns out to be a shitbag, and the rear end in a top hat ends up in the position that most closely resembles the hero's ending. The main flaw with the books, I felt, was all of the backdrop mythology. I dunno, maybe it comes to fruition in one or both of the other books, but in the trilogy it feels underdeveloped to the point that it works more as filler than anything else. Maybe it's because I read late at night and didn't give it my full attention, but I couldn't tell you much of anything about any of the gods Bayaz rambles about, or much about the Eaters, for that matter.
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May 12, 2011 05:54
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I thought it was weird that Euz just left. That's how it is in Byaz' story anyways, guy gave his sons the 3 disciplines of magic and left. Then there's also the last son of Euz still out there probably.... I dug the backdrop mythology, but it made me do a double take with the realization that not all of the mythic characters had been killed off.
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May 12, 2011 06:22
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Huh, and here I absolutely loved the mythological back-story and thought it tied well into the present day story. A lot of the back-story seemed to exist to set up the fact that Bayaz was following the same destructive path as Glustrod with the seed. Also it serves in the end to establish that Bayaz has always been a power-hungry rear end in a top hat whose achievements do little more than borrow from the much greater works of Juvens and Kanedias.
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May 12, 2011 07:10
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A very good article by Alex Preston at Salon Futura, regarding The Heroes and the nihilism of violence in novels. Preston is almost entirely unfamiliar with the fantasy genre but was very impressed by The Heroes.
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May 12, 2011 11:25
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keiran_helcyan posted:Huh, and here I absolutely loved the mythological back-story and thought it tied well into the present day story. A lot of the back-story seemed to exist to set up the fact that Bayaz was following the same destructive path as Glustrod with the seed. Also it serves in the end to establish that Bayaz has always been a power-hungry rear end in a top hat whose achievements do little more than borrow from the much greater works of Juvens and Kanedias. Frankly that was my favourite part with Logen (excluding Bloody Nine awesomeness), when he call Bayaz out on his 'achievement': "The results seem pretty much the same, except you wrought a touch less careless slaughter, and ruined a smaller part of a smaller city in a smaller, meaner time.
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May 12, 2011 13:01
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My mate is reading book 3 of First Law right now that I gave him a lend of. I've been receiving text messages as he's started into the back half of the book pretty much at 30 minute intervals. "Woah this is hosed." 30 minutes. "What the gently caress!?" 30 minutes. "WHAT THE gently caress" Now he hates Bayaz and hates me for making him read this depressing book. "Gandalf's gone bad!" Speaking of Bayaz when he steps out of the tub stark naked and dripping wet then blows that dude to poo poo with Art I couldn't stop laughing for about five minutes. J Bjelke-Postersen fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 04:24
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I might have missed it but does he ever go into more detail on what happened to the last son of Euz? Bedesh I think his name was.
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May 13, 2011 14:33
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The Gunslinger posted:I might have missed it but does he ever go into more detail on what happened to the last son of Euz? Bedesh I think his name was. They say next to nothing on him, I know because I was wondering the same thing. We know he's the one who specialized in talking to spirits but that's about it, so at the very least he was still around when the seed was stored. I think someone asked Joe about it once and he played coy.
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May 13, 2011 15:25
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