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The Gunslinger posted:I might have missed it but does he ever go into more detail on what happened to the last son of Euz? Bedesh I think his name was. While we're at it, who the gently caress is Shenkt? I feel like I should know this.
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May 13, 2011 15:29
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:While we're at it, who the gently caress is Shenkt? I feel like I should know this. He's the first(?) apprentice of Bayaz, and the husband of Vitari. Like Yoru Sulfur, he's an Eater. Unlike Yoru Sulfur, he realized Bayaz was a tremendous rear end in a top hat and turned against him. I don't think he was mentioned until BSC, though I might be wrong and there may be a passing reference to him in TFL. I thought the Shenkt plot was probably the best written part of BSC. You spend most of the book reading about how he's out 'for vengeance' and since he's an assassin and a badass you figure he's hunting Monza for some unknown reason. In your head you're thinking the big reveal is going to be him facing Monza down and telling her why he's seeking revenge against her, probably something to do with her being the Butcher of Caprile, which is an incident we don't really get the story on until the last book. Plus he's an Eater so he's got to be a bad guy, right? Then he's randomly Vitari's husband and then there's the big twist, about him being Bayaz's old apprentice. Really well done, I didn't see it coming. HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 15:47 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 15:41
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:I thought the Shenkt plot was probably the best written part of BSC. You spend most of the book reading about how he's out 'for vengeance' and since he's an assassin and a badass you figure he's hunting Monza for some unknown reason. In your head you're thinking the big reveal is going to be him facing Monza down and telling her why he's seeking revenge against her, probably something to do with her being the Butcher of Caprile, which is an incident we don't really get the story on until the last book. Plus he's an Eater so he's got to be a bad guy, right? Then he's randomly Vitari's husband and then there's the big twist, about him being Bayaz's old apprentice. Really well done, I didn't see it coming. For me, the Shenkt plot was probably what I enjoyed least from the book. Every single one of Abercrombie's characters have weaknesses and flaws, which is probably why I enjoy the books so much. I didn't really see this with Shenkt though. I thought he was too perfect, everything he did was badass and nothing ever got the better of him.
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May 13, 2011 17:29
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Hughmoris posted:For me, the Shenkt plot was probably what I enjoyed least from the book. Every single one of Abercrombie's characters have weaknesses and flaws, which is probably why I enjoy the books so much. I didn't really see this with Shenkt though. I thought he was too perfect, everything he did was badass and nothing ever got the better of him. Vitari is pretty fuckin squishy, compared to Shenkt. If I wanted to hurt him, I'd hurt her, and if I wanted to hurt her, I'd hurt her kids. Your complaint is perfectly valid if you look at BSC as the stand-alone book it's billed as, but really, it's not a stand-alone book and I don't think I'd have enjoyed it nearly as much as I did if I read it that way. It's a side-story, maybe, but not stand-alone. Shenkt will be back, and he will be hosed with. I doubt Joe's gonna let him stick his finger through Bayaz's eye quite as easily.
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May 13, 2011 21:04
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keiran_helcyan posted:They say next to nothing on him, I know because I was wondering the same thing. We know he's the one who specialized in talking to spirits but that's about it, so at the very least he was still around when the seed was stored. I think someone asked Joe about it once and he played coy. I strongly suspect that Ninefingers is either one of his descendants or that of one of his acolytes without even realizing it. The Magi serve Jeuvens and get magic, the Adepti serve Kanedias and get technology, and somehow Ninefingers can talk to spirits. He's obviously linked to the third brother in some way.
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May 13, 2011 22:18
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Burned through all five of these books in the last month and holy poo poo what a ride. Why do you hate love, Joe Abercrombie?  Another thing, I am unsettled by everything Ishri does. Can she please die satisfyingly, Joe?
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May 13, 2011 22:22
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keiran_helcyan posted:They say next to nothing on him, I know because I was wondering the same thing. We know he's the one who specialized in talking to spirits but that's about it, so at the very least he was still around when the seed was stored. I think someone asked Joe about it once and he played coy. Bedesh works with Shenkt, calling it now. Note that I said 'works with' not 'commands.'
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May 13, 2011 23:05
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Bedesh works with Shenkt, calling it now. Note that I said 'works with' not 'commands.' He does not kneel.
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May 13, 2011 23:15
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I just finished TFL. 'No one gets what they deserve' indeed. Sigh. Still, I enjoyed the ride. Anyway, my favorite exchange in the whole trilogy is probably 'The worst? You sure? What if Bethod does come, and his Carls kick your wall over like a pile o' turds and kill every last on of us?' 'True. That is worse. You got a fast mind, lad.'
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May 14, 2011 03:42
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Megaflare posted:I just finished TFL. 'No one gets what they deserve' indeed. Sigh. Still, I enjoyed the ride. That was the end of Laffa!
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May 14, 2011 04:51
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Lots of spoilers here: I just finished the main three books. I was really pretty disappointed. The most successful thing was that I wanted to keep reading and was entertained while reading. It avoided the dragging that a lot of fantasy tends to do, think Robert Jordan introducing 300 main characters or R.R. Martin talking for two pages about different houses' banners. What it failed at for me was being anything far beyond "a bunch of cool fight scenes". All the background and character development felt almost like the minimal amount needed to make you care during the fight scenes. I'm not saying this series was objectively bad, just that it failed to go where I wanted it to. When I was starting on the first book, I was hoping for the backstory of Juvens' et al. to have a serious impact on the story or at a minimum for all the stuff they touched upon with that to be fleshed out at least significantly more than it was. I just remember when I was like 70% through the second book thinking "Okay... I just realized that this series is mostly just fight scenes and the stuff I was hoping to have answered is probably only going to get touched on in a minor way". Just stuff like... what does it actually mean to have knowledge and magic together? Why is that really necessary? Why could Kanedias make stuff like he did, yes I know his father "gave him that gift" but that is all the explanation we got. I realize this wasn't the point of the book, but I found these ideas he created much more interesting than "the bloody nine" killing a bunch of poo poo over and over or 100 pages dedicated to a single battle etc. The eaters were an interesting idea, why didn't he have a main character that was an eater? The way it ended up, the 100 words felt like some kind of non-threat because they just kind of appeared at the very end of the book and were wiped out near effortlessly. There were too many one dimensional characters like the two generals that argued with each other, the navigator, Ladisla and his staff, and a good amount of some other characters. I think he was trying to make these caricatures more than anything, which he succeeded in doing, but it didn't make the book any better and to me it just made the world less believable. Even some of the main characters lacked depth. Ferro never really went anywhere, she started off so bitter she literally hissed at everyone she saw. She barely evolved past that point during the whole three books and I never really felt much attachment to her. Logan's gimmick of "the bloody nine" really put me off. All it did for me was think "He is never going to lose in a fight and I'm going to have to read several pages of over the top violence every time he comes near losing in a fight". If you remove that aspect he's just kind of a normal person trying to do the right thing. The only reason he ever "does the wrong thing" is because this random and unexplained thing happens to him that makes him kill people. It doesn't create a believable conflict to me, it's just like a nice guy who turns into someone else beyond his control. Another thing that started to grate on me was that it would be one thing if this series were just a glorified collection of fight scenes, but trying to add literary merit onto it was getting tiring. You don't need to make a character repeat their "theme" over and over, it just feels like poor writing. "Why do I do this?", "Can a man really change?", "Will vengeance fill the hole?" Most writers don't explicitly have the characters just say over and over what kind of theme the author is trying to convey with them because it comes off as ham-fisted and lazy. Maybe he's trying to leave room for a sequel, but the ending did not work. What happened with Ferro? Yes she went south for vengeance, but obviously there is more going on than that. The main antagonist is still alive and was never even shown in the book. Bayaz was hinted at throughout the series as being less than "good", but I feel like the end just suddenly revealed much too quickly a lot about how Bayaz really is. Showing the full extent of Bayaz' control over everything should have been revealed more gradually, or at least his attitude toward controlling everything. I guess he did a good job showing the characters all go through a big transition but largely not learning their lesson and staying on the same course that they began on, which is kind of clever and if that was his total goal he did it. He could have done this better and more effectively with less/shorter fight scenes. All the fighting seriously felt like padding to me. I remember thinking many times "Seriously... another battle?" During the last book I remember thinking "Great another battle has started so this character is tied up for 100-200 pages". angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 15:04
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systran posted:You thought there were too many battles? Weird, I was thinking we didn't get to see the main characters fighting enough. As for Logen going all Bloody Nine, he did that, what, four times in the entire trilogy? wellwhoopdedooo fucked around with this message at 16:02 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 15:31
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You might want to shove that entire post in spoiler tags.systran posted:The only reason he ever "does the wrong thing" is because this random and unexplained thing happens to him that makes him kill people. It doesn't create a believable conflict to me, it's just like a nice guy who turns into someone else beyond his control. It's stated pretty plainly that Logen was a tremendous rear end in a top hat whose bloodthirstiness pushed Bethod into his conquest. He spends all book blaming Bethod for turning the North into a war-torn mess but in the end you learn its really his fault. That didn't have anything to do with the Bloody Nine. You spend most of the book thinking Logen was a good guy who got a raw deal but in reality he was a bad guy trying to deceive himself. He's not even much of a 'good guy,' he just presents himself as one by spouting 'advice,' mostly in the form of trite platitudes. quote:Maybe he's trying to leave room for a sequel, but the ending did not work. What happened with Ferro? Yes she went south for vengeance, but obviously there is more going on than that. The main antagonist is still alive and was never even shown in the book. Bayaz was hinted at throughout the series as being less than "good", but I feel like the end just suddenly revealed much too quickly a lot about how Bayaz really is. Showing the full extent of Bayaz' control over everything should have been revealed more gradually, or at least his attitude toward controlling everything. There have been two semi-stand alone 'sequels' with more in the works. You know that, right? Several characters return in one or both of Best Served Cold and The Heroes. The whole arc was never meant to be resolved in The First Law. I think that's one of the main problems, that it was never made clear that The First Law was supposed to be the stage-setter and not a conclusion. For what it's worth (BSC spoilers) an important POV character is an Eater in Best Served Cold and the next book Abercrombie is writing is going to take place in the South. While I understand a lot of your complaints, I feel some of them are mired in traditional literary thinking. You need hints or clues or what have you. Abercrombie doesn't really do that. Everyone could see one particular twist (Jezal becoming king) coming. Others come a lot faster and harder. While you might think it's poor writing, I think it's realistic; life doesn't always drop clues for its big twists. We get a very narrow view of the story through six flawed (except the Dogman, he's awesome) individuals, rather than through an omniscient narrator. Also your thing about battle scenes is a lot of hyperbole. The Dark Elf Trilogy this is not. HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 15:48 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 15:43
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I finished the Heroes a couple of weeks ago, and I really love Calder's resolution. There's something about older/younger brother plots that get me all 
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May 16, 2011 15:54
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:
Spoilers again in this response... sorry I don't want to have to tag every single thing that is a potential spoiler, I never read threads like this until I finish the book, I don't understand why someone would read past the OP if they still hadn't finished the book. If you haven't finished the first three, don't read this: Sure you can argue that I'm exaggerating, but for me personally there were way too many battles, many of which did little to nothing to advance the plot. The worst one for me was when Ferro and Logan fought under the city and they even fought a randomly huge monster thing that appeared out of nowhere for no reason. What was the point of Fenris the Feared other than as a "battle enemy". His character seriously did nothing. I mean it's okay to do this, but for me I don't care about characters that only show up in battles. Most of the northmen aside from Dogman struck me the same way. They were just paper thin characters that were there for fight scenes. For me personally, there were too many fight scenes and they didn't add enough to the plot. I am aware there were other books, but since they specifically were mentioned as "stand alone" I assumed that the trilogy would also be stand alone. If you have to read the "stand alone" books to finish the plot of the three books, then I would argue that the stand alone books are not stand alone but actually essential. I disagree about Logan; the author made him extremely likable and the way he was portrayed throughout the whole series was as a likable person. Everyone he talked to that wasn't prejudiced against him ended up finding him likable. The things that he actually did throughout the whole series were largely good, he just TALKED a lot about how "he was not good". You were basically seeing a complete disconnect between what he was saying about himself and how he was acting. I don't think this was so much some deep idea but rather poor writing. There was just like an exposition dump near the end talking to Bethod where it showed that yes, in the past, Logan was a dick. As far as I saw from his behavior throughout the series (aside from the Bloody Nine), he was not that bad of a person. Compare to someone like Glokta where I feel like the author was successful. Glokta says he is a bad person and acts like a bad person, but when he occasionally does good things it feels realistic and adds depth to the character. "Traditional literary thinking" is based on things that make sense and have developed over a long time based on what works well and what doesn't. You can break from the mold when you have a good reason or know what you are doing, but if you don't do it right it will feel off and that's what happened here. For example Brother Longfoot did not just seem unrealistic because of "flawed narrators" but rather because his dialogue was absolutely terrible and in no way realistic at all (same with Poulder and what's his name). Why was Longfoot even in the book?
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May 16, 2011 17:18
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systran posted:I am aware there were other books, but since they specifically were mentioned as "stand alone" I assumed that the trilogy would also be stand alone. If you have to read the "stand alone" books to finish the plot of the three books, then I would argue that the stand alone books are not stand alone but actually essential. Yeah. In this thread we all pretty much say the same thing. The 'stand-alone' novels don't really stand alone. The trilogy does, but the other novels are connected, and not just tangentially. The problem is portraying them as such; a lot of people pick up one of them (especially The Heroes because it was a bestseller) and then like it and intend to read TFL and BSC... but they've already ruined some of the biggest plot points in the 4 earlier books by reading The Heroes first. It's an issue, and I don't quite understand why it's been marketed the way it has. Likely it's about book deals. quote:I disagree about Logan; the author made him extremely likable and the way he was portrayed throughout the whole series was as a likable person. Everyone he talked to that wasn't prejudiced against him ended up finding him likable. The things that he actually did throughout the whole series were largely good, he just TALKED a lot about how "he was not good". I actually don't think he did too much on the moral scale over the course of the book, aside from minor things like being nice to Jezal. "Likable" and "morally good" are two completely different things. quote:For example Brother Longfoot did not just seem unrealistic because of "flawed narrators" but rather because his dialogue was absolutely terrible and in no way realistic at all (same with Poulder and what's his name). Why was Longfoot even in the book? Yeah, Longfoot was one of the series' weaker characters. On the other hand, it's worth nothing that you only see Poulder and Kroy through the lens of their subordinates or people not used to dealing with a highly rigid military institution. Kroy receives significantly more characterization in The Heroes, where there's a POV character who is significantly closer to him. But it's far from unrealistic that generals squabble. HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 17:52
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Just finished Best Served Cold, and loved it. I had to read around here a bit to figure out what was going with Shenkt, but it does make things much more interesting. Starting The Heroes tonight! And I read an interview with Abercrombie in which he says his next book after that will be a western-ish type book.
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May 16, 2011 19:31
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keiran_helcyan posted:They say next to nothing on him, I know because I was wondering the same thing. We know he's the one who specialized in talking to spirits but that's about it, so at the very least he was still around when the seed was stored. I think someone asked Joe about it once and he played coy. I know this was from the last page but I wanted to point something out. At some point someone asked Bayaz what he would have done if he never found Logen or if Logen had died and he said he had other options for speaking with the dead. It made me think that he might have done something with/to Bedesh or what ever his name is. I am going to try and locate the exact line. I think he was actually talking to Logen at the time. Edit: for wellwhoopdedooo's mental health. Clinton1011 fucked around with this message at 19:13 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 15:33
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ok, that's two of you now, my OCD will not allow this. It's Logen.
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May 17, 2011 18:44
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Clinton1011 posted:I know this was from the last page but I wanted to point something out. At some point someone asked Bayaz what he would have done if he never found Logen or if Logen had died and he said he had other options for speaking with the dead. This reminded me of another of the little things I liked about the books. You think of Logen as a barbarian, a berserker, defined by his talent for fighting. But his skill for speaking with the spirits is arguably much rarer -- yes, he's one of the best fighters on the planet, but there are many others who are nearly as good... but there are NOT many others who can talk to the dead. And yet, Logen never makes a big deal of this ability, and you only gradually realize how singular it is. In most books, the "magical" abilities are reserved for "wizards" or "shaman" or whatever, but somehow the approach here felt more "real" (for, you know, fantasy novel values of "real"). I feel like I'm having trouble articulating this... did it strike anyone else similarly? I can't decide whether I'd be happy to see whatever spirit the "Bloody-Nine" was show up again (if, indeed, it was a separate spirit), or not... probably not, probably the mystery is good, but dammit I want to *know* what was really happening with Logen.
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May 17, 2011 19:45
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Okay, just started The Heroes... can anyone remind me who Jalenhorm was? It's been a while since I read the trilogy. Was he just one of Jezal's random friends who showed up every so often?
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May 18, 2011 00:35
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Jalenhorm was one of the guys who Jezal used to beat at cards back when he was training to be a fencer. They went to war when Jezal went on his adventures, and Jalenhorm is the guy who West sent back with the message that he was getting owned by northmen. not gonna put this in spoilers because it spoils literally nothing.
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May 18, 2011 00:46
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Yeah, he was a lieutenant in Jezal's regiment at the start of The Blade Itself.
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May 18, 2011 01:04
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So, Bloody Nine. I believe there was some talk about how people thought it was some kind of demonic possession due to the icy feeling and how that's associated with the Other Side. Couldn't it actually be his possible demonic heritage asserting itself? He doesn't feel pain during and while I have to go back through the parts where he's berserk to see for sure, I don't think there is any mention of color in any of them. He can talk to the spirits, the gift given to the third of Euz's children (I think), but there is no mention as to why he can do it or how he learned. Learning that the spirits thing was one of Euz's children's gifts combined with the other things we learned from Ferro about what having demonic blood means... seems like the perfect sprinkling of hints as to what is going on with Logen. Maybe even subconsciously affected Ferro's feelings towards him. After all, they're only together for the first time after she sees him berserk. Biggest thing wrong with this is why the Magi couldn't sense it like with Ferro. If it's true then it's obviously not as prominent in him as her so maybe they would only know if they were around while he was 'changed'. Doesn't make much sense but then again, Demons. I don't think he's ever around the Seed either so no help there.
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May 20, 2011 00:05
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Maybe Bayaz could sense it, but didn't need to state it explicitly by asking questions like with Ferro because it doesn't seem to be any real mystery that Logen can talk to spirits.
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May 20, 2011 01:03
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I hate to do the wall of spoilers poo poo but I just finished the whole series last night so obviously spoilers on that below: - he ends Logen's story perfectly. Perfect symmetry given what we learn about him during the journey. Dogman's confrontation with him towards the end of Last Argument of Kings really showcases how much Logen's character deceives himself about his intentions. - Ferro's resolution I thought left a bit to be desired. Just heading down south to randomly hunt Eaters/Khalul/whatever doesn't seem terribly realistic given that she already fled there once because she lacked the power to fight them. - Longfoot was terribly uninteresting and unnecessary throughout. He seemed to serve no purpose despite having a very specialized role in the narrative. I think Abercrombie needed to do a little more show and little less tell with him. - Jezal's character seemed odd at the end. Throughout the series we see Jezal show courage or at least attempt to face obstacles head on. I just don't buy the whole cowardly puppet king role despite what Bayaz does to him near the end. - Bayaz was amazingly well written. I loved his character transformation, it was downright chilling at times. - Glokta was likewise so well written that I could have done with an entire book of his escapades with Frost and Severard. I think my biggest disappointment with the series was their betrayal. You knew it was coming at some point because of the nature of the story but it still hits you.
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May 20, 2011 14:41
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The Gunslinger posted:
Ferro is superpowered or 'changed' now due to her encounter with the Seed. She overpowers the first of the eaters one on one (though he's probably a little weakened and missing an arm). Basically she was affected like Tolomei but probably to a lesser degree since her blood was more diluted. I didn't much like her resolution either but I think you missed that bit.
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May 20, 2011 16:16
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I always just assumed that's because of the damage he sustained but fair enough, perhaps I didn't read enough into that encounter.
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May 20, 2011 16:22
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The Gunslinger posted:I always just assumed that's because of the damage he sustained but fair enough, perhaps I didn't read enough into that encounter. Yeah, she has changed. I included the telling part below: quote:
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May 20, 2011 17:30
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Ahh thanks, I must have glossed over it.
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May 20, 2011 17:37
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I totally agree with you about the whole thing with Jezal though, Jezal could have been a puppet strung along many ways but cowardice didn't strike me as one of them. Its like Abercombie just wanted an excuse wanted the King Arther parallel to wind up as one last minute and undid all character development regardless of rhyme or reason. Or because he hates him as much as the cast does.
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May 20, 2011 19:35
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Jezal was always a bitch though. He thought he was making some progress for awhile, but was it really a surprise that when push came to shove he reverted back into being a bitch?
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May 20, 2011 19:48
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edit: why I double-posted 11 minutes apart from each other I will never know
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May 20, 2011 19:59
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True, But it still comes off kinda weak. Its been like a year or so from beginning to end through the whole trilogy and Jezal HAD made little progress through out when it came to him becoming something other an inept spoiled rear end. West and Audree drove him to actually take the war and life seriously, hence why he became a good fencer and actually felt guilty about trying to bone Audree since West was his friend. Logen despite the fact outside of battle gave useless, vague slogans for Jezal to live by actually taught not be such a bigot as well...and drove him further into actually deciding to take action and do something. By time the third book comes around, it seemed like Joe realized he goofed a bit and the way he was acting Jezal was acting now meant the book couldn't end the way he needed it too. Jezal despite bitching about it did take a mace wound to the head and was still willing to fight afterwards. He was ready to go to war over a man he hated, because he couldn't delude himself as to what it would signify despite his rather limited intelligence. Getting shocked and being forced to poo poo himself by Bayaz seems kinda weak to do that character development. Bayaz shaped him into an overly romantic, trusting ninny that actually buddied up with Glokta just because he helped solve his martial problems, despite how loving ominous the circumstances of it where. Likewise Joe should have taken two months or so to re write Jezal part of the Last Argument to just make the Bayza keep power the same way. Keep up the old kindly grandfather act in front of him now that it would actually work, even if it was half hearted out of disdain.
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May 20, 2011 20:10
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Jezal was always a bitch though. He thought he was making some progress for awhile, but was it really a surprise that when push came to shove he reverted back into being a bitch? Considering numerous characters say that he's a brilliant card player I was confused as to why he was such an idiot. Card players are generally good at reading people and I was expecting him to pull off some masterstroke against Bayaz. I guess he didn't because it would've been too uplifting. Looking above I think someone touched on a very good point; the main cast were very well written but the supporting cast were paper-thin and the Northmen and Union armies were just caricatures. On one side you have a battle hardened people hardened by years of hard fighting, and on the other side you have an army that contains every ineffectual stereotype, all of them in command. Poulder and Kroy seemed to serve no purpose other than to show everybody how small-minded the Union is. There was one point where I realised this in LAoK: Logen is describing the Gurkish to the Northmen and says "Hard men by all counts". For god's sake is there any group of people other than the Union who aren't hard fighters? Also I agree that the fight underneath Aulculus was very jarring, to be honest it read like a mindless computer game: Kill numerous small enemies Kill bigger more dangerous enemies (with cool combos like throwing them into lava) Kill boss creature (never referenced before or after) Plucky Brit fucked around with this message at 20:23 on May 20, 2011 |
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May 20, 2011 20:12
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I just started reading The Blade Itself, I'm 17% through it according to my Kindle. I'm really liking it so far, never read anything else by Abercrombie before. I picked it up off a goon recommendation. The dark humor really gets me, and I've found myself chuckling quite a few times.
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May 21, 2011 03:48
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Plucky Brit posted:
Haha I totally agree, I originally was going to say this same thing but I didn't because I felt like I was being critical enough already. Glad I wasn't the only one that thought this while reading this scene.
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May 21, 2011 04:07
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I didn't catch myself thinking that in that scene but it's a part of the book that I've completely forgotten. I know that SOMETHING happened there but couldn't tell you what without specifically looking up the book. I also agree that Longfoot and Ferro are pretty weak characters, and I agree that the Union Army is made up of shorthand caricatures in the First Law trilogy. I didn't mind that, though - it seemed pretty obvious that caricature was what Abercrombie was going for in that case. The Heroes provides a lot of depth to those very same characters, since they're serving a completely different role in the story now.
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May 21, 2011 10:04
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John Charity Spring posted:I also agree that Longfoot and Ferro are pretty weak characters, and I agree that the Union Army is made up of shorthand caricatures in the First Law trilogy. I didn't mind that, though - it seemed pretty obvious that caricature was what Abercrombie was going for in that case. The Heroes provides a lot of depth to those very same characters, since they're serving a completely different role in the story now. The Heroes provides some depth to Kroy, while also introducing three new incompetent generals. The over-eager and incompetent one, the cavalier one who dies while doing something reckless, and the one who thinks he's methodical but causes blunder after blunder. Sound familiar? At any rate I have the same criticism of the northmen; I think one of the reviews says "A squadron of Terry Blackstool's deadliest cliches sprang their trap." That's pretty much my stance about the Northmen, and no I don't think that one throwaway line about how Dow used to be a potter counts as character development. I don't really think it's possible to develop so many characters over one book, but if so I don't think he should've introduced so many. \/\/\/\/ I don't want to get into a massive argument, so I'll just state my opinion. Jalenhorm: Advances far too fast, is caught off guard, and has a third (or more) of his division destroyed. The rest of the division is saved by Gorst's (badass) charge. He also takes the children thanks to Gorst. The guy on the left: Spends a morning failing to break through on the bridge (only works when Gorst arrives), sends people onto a fast stream and most drown. Is caught completely unprepared by Calder's nighttime attack, then sends all his cavalry to their deaths because he didn't get the ground checked. The guy on the right: Keeps nobody in reserve (ignoring Finree, understandably) which means he gets killed. I can't think of any good move or strategy done by any of them. If you can then I'll gladly concede the point. Plucky Brit fucked around with this message at 12:16 on May 21, 2011 |
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May 21, 2011 11:09
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 10:41 |
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Characterising all the Union generals in The Heroes as 'incompetent' is reductive and inaccurate, I think. They're not as broadly archetypical as you make out, either.
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May 21, 2011 11:31
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