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a medical mystery posted:There were missions that pretty much required some bullshit strategies, though. I think there was one I literally could not complete unless I parked my tank right in an anime girl's face. By far the best mission in the game is right around the half-way point when you're setting up an ambush for a gigantic gently caress off tank. To start off with, this thing enters the field and will without hesitation absolutely tear any exposed person to shreds. Mix in that the only way to hurt it is to destroy its smaller guns and run a guy up its sides (it will 1hit KO anyone it runs over) to destroy an annoyingly tough core three times and you have a dragged out fight. That, of course, doesn't take into account that the Tank will reach the game-over target unless you are constantly moving people out of safety to dump rubble in its way. All the while it advances on foot support spawns in and runs to harass you. Did I mention the game doesn't bring up the "knock rubble into its way" until the tank is far enough up that moving people will be suicide? Its okay though, because once you get that down pat the level gets bad. You see at a certain point an enemy leader arrives on the map and brings a huge wave of infinitely spawning reinforcements. The enemy leader is invincible and she can one shot most characters from sniper distance. The second she appears if you are not mopping up the last bit of the tank, you are going to lose people. Hell, even if you're mopping up the tank you're probably going to lose people. Did I mention none of this is foreshadowed so you are probably 100% going to fail or at best, lose tons of your guys on the first try? There's another mission later where the solution to beating it is to ignore you given objective, move your tanks to an arbitrary point on the map, max out turn points, and then complete your objective. Absurdly tough enemies will spawn in, but since you're behind them with tanks and have a ton of turns saved up you can obliterate them in a single turn. Didn't do that? Enjoy dying to infinitely spawning enemies executing a pincer attack with their heavy support while in the middle of a completely indefensible location.
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Jun 9, 2011 00:56
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I thought people said VC was basically the Scout game. How much of it is true.
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Jun 9, 2011 01:05
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Tae posted:I thought people said VC was basically the Scout game. How much of it is true. Scouts can break the game, as most levels have as an objective to capture the enemy base, and so you can just send scouts around and past enemies to do this.
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Jun 9, 2011 01:10
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The game also tries to pretend scouts have crappy firepower, but in most situations they're actually just as good if not better at killing stuff than shock troopers, thanks to their longer range. The second game fixes that, mostly. Scouts are still good, but the smaller maps make close-quarter classes more useful.
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Jun 9, 2011 01:36
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Barudak posted:By far the best mission in the game is right around the half-way point when you're setting up an ambush for a gigantic gently caress off tank. To start off with, this thing enters the field and will without hesitation absolutely tear any exposed person to shreds. Mix in that the only way to hurt it is to destroy its smaller guns and run a guy up its sides (it will 1hit KO anyone it runs over) to destroy an annoyingly tough core three times and you have a dragged out fight. When I did this mission there was no infinite spawning infantry or anything. Just a handful in both phases that I quickly killed. And I did it like 2-3 weeks ago. The leader is annoying but she can't damage your tank so I just set it up so my infantry could use it as cover. She actually just chills with the large tank and only attacks anyone too close so what you do is when the cores come up you use your scouts to multi-move and hit the core and get away all in the same turn. She'll ignore all your infantry this way... as long as you get them out of the way when she is first getting to the tank. Seemed pretty simple to me. 'annoying tough cores'... yeah, lob a grenade into them. Instant kill. Don't shoot them. There's a wall/ramp type thing that is pretty ideal cover for your lancers to take out the little guns as well as an ideal path to get a lancer up top where he can destroy all the rubble points. Unsmart fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jun 9, 2011 |
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Jun 9, 2011 02:39
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Cake Attack posted:There's only the one really difficult mission, which is pretty manageable once you know what to do (admittedly, knowing what to do isn't easy). If anybody ends up getting VC, I'd be happy the walk them through how to get past that mission. Care to indulge me then? That mission alone is the one reason why I dread making any sort of real progress in VC, despite enjoying what I've done so far.
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Jun 9, 2011 03:06
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Megaflare posted:When I did this mission there was no infinite spawning infantry or anything. Just a handful in both phases that I quickly killed. And I did it like 2-3 weeks ago. The leader is annoying but she can't damage your tank so I just set it up so my infantry could use it as cover. She actually just chills with the large tank and only attacks anyone too close so what you do is when the cores come up you use your scouts to multi-move and hit the core and get away all in the same turn. She'll ignore all your infantry this way... as long as you get them out of the way when she is first getting to the tank. Wait grenades worked on the cores? AGWUASHASHSD Scouts Uber Alles.
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Jun 9, 2011 03:08
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AG3 posted:Speaking of games and release dates, how far off is Chantelise now? We'll be spewing forth more words about Chantelise after the E3 furor dies down - we wanted to get to it BEFORE E3, but now we gotta wait so we don't get eclipsed. All but guaranteed to land this month, though.
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Jun 9, 2011 03:40
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It's still scheduled for a June release, I hope?
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SpaceDrake posted:We'll be spewing forth more words about Chantelise after the E3 furor dies down - we wanted to get to it BEFORE E3, but now we gotta wait so we don't get eclipsed. All but guaranteed to land this month, though. Is Chantelise the SRPG? because I wasnt very interested in the premise of your first game but I will buy the poo poo out of an SRPG by you guys
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Jun 9, 2011 03:58
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niggapolis posted:Is Chantelise the SRPG? because I wasnt very interested in the premise of your first game but I will buy the poo poo out of an SRPG by you guys It's Recettear 0.5, more or less.
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Jun 9, 2011 04:01
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sexual rickshaw posted:Care to indulge me then? That mission alone is the one reason why I dread making any sort of real progress in VC, despite enjoying what I've done so far. Yeah sure, I'll see what all I can get across in text. First of all, you want mainly bring lancers, with along with Alicia and Rosie for extra Command Points. An engineer would probably be helpful as well. You want to start of with using your lancers to take out the turrets on the tank. There should be two lancers near where the tank is; using them you should be able to take out around 2 of the turrets. I can't guarantee anything, but using the button that changes targets to aim rather than auto-aiming seems to give better accuracy. Over the next couple of turns you should focus on using your lancers to take out all the turrets. If one or two die, it's no big deal, just try to get a unit next to them so they can retreat instead of permanently dying. While you're doing this, you should also be focusing on keeping the Edelweiss safe. It's hard to get down exactly, but I think you want to be parallel to the Batomys, with your rear around at the middle of the Batomys. Whenever you end up moving the Edelweiss, take the chance to shoot down one of the ruin walls. Anyways, once you get all the turrets and the Batomys exposes it's radiators (I think this should happen at around the same time, or you'll get the turrets first if you're making good pace) use Alicia, Rosie or your engineer and get them to climb onto the tank, and throw a grenade into the radiator. The game tells you to use lancers, but a grenade does it in one shot. You can only take down one radiator a turn, so use your spare Command Points to do the following: Keep the Edelweiss in a safe position, use an engineer to repair any damages the Edelweiss has sustained, move all your units to the trenches on the far side of the map/shoot any ruin walls still standing. (The last stretch of land before your home base). You should get all three radiators and stall the Batomys right in front of the camp in what I think is the bottom-left corner of the map. Selvaria should have showed up by now, so use the Edelweiss to block her fire (the layout of the map where the Batomys stops lets you pretty much entirely block her from your units using the Edelweiss and the Batomys as a wall. Then, take all your lancers that are hiding in the trenches and get the to move up and shoot at the Batomys until you win. If text isn't doing a good job of conveying this, I think there's an LP of the game you could look at, or turn by turn youtube walkthroughs, if you're still interested.
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Jun 9, 2011 04:03
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niggapolis posted:Is Chantelise the SRPG? because I wasnt very interested in the premise of your first game but I will buy the poo poo out of an SRPG by you guys
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Jun 9, 2011 04:17
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SpaceDrake posted:We'll be spewing forth more words about Chantelise after the E3 furor dies down - we wanted to get to it BEFORE E3, but now we gotta wait so we don't get eclipsed. All but guaranteed to land this month, though.  You have no idea how much I'm looking forward to this!
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Jun 9, 2011 05:11
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I always thought the aforementioned "tank pincer" mission was loads harder than the big tank mission, gently caress that one so hard 
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Jun 9, 2011 05:25
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amaranthine posted:I always thought the aforementioned "tank pincer" mission was loads harder than the big tank mission, gently caress that one so hard People don't complain as much about that one because there's a fairly obvious way to beat the level, if you're willing to suck up your pride.
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Jun 9, 2011 05:32
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niggapolis posted:Is Chantelise the SRPG? because I wasnt very interested in the premise of your first game but I will buy the poo poo out of an SRPG by you guys Chantelise is the action-RPG thing EGS made prior to Recettear - not as deep as Rec but it's still a lot of fun (and has a plot that is surprisingly involved for how short it is). Territoire is the strategy game-thingie, and that... is still a ways on the horizon, even in Japan. Lemme put it this way: it's sufficiently far away that EGS won't be releasing at the upcoming Comiket 80 event, and that's in August.  We likely won't really get to it until next year.We do have two other projects in the hopper after Chantelise, though, both of which I am retardedly excited about but sadly I still have to be mysterious about them. Especially Project Four, which has a ton of nasty NDAs attached to it. 
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Jun 9, 2011 05:52
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Not to sound overeager (which is hard, because I am), but how soon could you start on Territoire's translation once it's done? Will you get a release day copy, or a bit sooner? Sorry for the tone; some things just don't transmit over the Internet. Looking forward to your next projects too- I don't suppose any of them come from companies that aren't EGS, I assume?
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Jun 9, 2011 06:37
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Project Three and Project Four do involve us branching out from EGS titles, in fact - it's a small part of the reason I'm so excited for what's coming. I do wish I could words endlessly about them already, but especially with Project Four, that'd involve snipers removing my head with a bullet. And there's a small chance Four might be a wash in the end, but we'll have to see how that pans out. The earliest we could reasonably get to Territoire would be when the game goes to print in Japan - any earlier than that and changes might go into the final game that negate previous work. That's one of the reasons you so rarely see multi-lingual releases of games at the same time; you don't want the dev team straightjacketed by the loc teams, and you don't want to be forcing the loc team to throw out their work every month because someone decided a few scenes needed changing. So, yeah, we won't be able to get to TT for a while yet, even if our slate was totally clean.
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Jun 9, 2011 06:47
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Ah, right then, thanks. Mind if I also ask when you'd be able to talk about Projects 3/4? You don't have to answer that.
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Jun 9, 2011 07:01
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Hello lovely RPG players. I have a question(s) for you, it might seem a bit odd but I would really appreciate your input as you're most suited to talk about such things. The question is: What do you think are the 'class' archetypes that are most important to have represented in a multiplayer or singleplayer RPG? It doesn't have to be MMO style rock, paper, scissors type stuff but I'd like to know the kinds of characters you enjoy playing. What is it about their abilities that makes you love any given class?
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Jun 9, 2011 15:17
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Hello lovely RPG players. You can't go wrong with the basic warrior, mage, and healer archetypes. I have never found much use for the thief type, but those three are essential.
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Jun 9, 2011 15:21
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Would you break them down any further WoW style or do you find it best to stick with the more traditional, catch all class?
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Jun 9, 2011 15:25
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On the broadest level you would be able to define archetypes which are simple able to do everything - the standard versions used are, however, basic do-everythings with varying proportions of 1) Actor - Have the ability to further main aims of the character 2) Antagonist - Have the ability to hinder main aims of characters opposing the character 3) Aid - have the ability to disrupt or redress the hindrances produced by archetype 2 On a more real-world level this fits the classic fantasy "get the loot, kill the baddies, save the entire planet" archetypes of 1) People who get the loot and kill the baddies -- damage dealers 2) The baddies - do bad things to (1) -- monsters with big fangs 3) Save (1) indirectly - healers etc but can be applied to almost any bizarre RPG you can devise (random wiki page used to create a ludicrous example) The East Portland Branch, Public Library of Multnomah County role playing game 1) People frantically applying the dewey decimal system 2) Evil book shufflers 3) People who loudly go shh, tax payers, book producers, efficiency analysts It also works in non conflict based rpgs, since the passage of time, logistical issues etc are all possible examples of the antagonist archetype. Or were you after something more practically applicable ? In that case each genre varies a bit in the descriptions but the roles remain.
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Jun 9, 2011 15:35
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ChuckDHead posted:You can't go wrong with the basic warrior, mage, and healer archetypes. I have never found much use for the thief type, but those three are essential. For an opposing viewpoint, I tend to go for the Thief classes first. They tend to have to ability to get the most loot and unlock the most dialogue options.
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Jun 9, 2011 15:46
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To give further info I'm knocking around a few ideas for an rpg that will make use of the connectivity between handheld gaming platforms (PSVita, 3DS, WiiU) and their parent consoles to employ the more traditional adventurers/dungeon master dynamic. However I want to give players more choice than that found in WoW and as someone who hasn't played much DnD or 'heavy' traditional RPGs I wanted to know what you guys and girls like to play. After all it's aimed at you.
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Jun 9, 2011 15:50
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In that case you can pay me to licence the "The East Portland Branch, Public Library of Multnomah County role playing game" Thief and fighter are essentially the same actor/protagonist archetype and as such are always going to be among the more popular on offer. Your classic mage type fits either aid or actor, but the poor old healers have been generally pigeonholed as aid for an absolute age. As such they are part of an archetype which is always the equivalent of a supporting cast actor in a play and will be less fun for many folk to play. Maybe one day there will be a "World of Healcraft" where folk laugh at the fighters and thieves for only having crappy bandages and having to do menial labour rather than getting the big bucks from healing like a god. Or maybe that's just real-life.
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Jun 9, 2011 15:58
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Monster w21 Faces posted:To give further info I'm knocking around a few ideas for an rpg that will make use of the connectivity between handheld gaming platforms (PSVita, 3DS, WiiU) and their parent consoles to employ the more traditional adventurers/dungeon master dynamic. I've played a few games where the character's class didn't fit neatly into the warrior/mage/healer/thief mold and it was awesome. Nothing wrong with the classics but unless you have a really creative way to use them it might be more worthwhile to try something new to make your game stand out. I guess the main example I can think of is the Etrian Odyssey series. The traditional tank, warrior, etc. are usually there but the rest of the classes are often a bit hard to define. I still haven't entirely figured out the "Ninja" class in EO3. But even in those games you can generally loosely classify each class as "damage-dealer" or "support (healing, buffs, debuffs)."
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Jun 9, 2011 16:06
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I think that's done on purpose though. No one REALLY wants to be the healer, but they'll play one if it's beneficial for the group because that's the kind of person they are. Also if you make the healer kick rear end then everyone is going to play as one and you get an unstopable heal train going. HondaCivet posted:I've played a few games where the character's class didn't fit neatly into the warrior/mage/healer/thief mold and it was awesome. Nothing wrong with the classics but unless you have a really creative way to use them it might be more worthwhile to try something new to make your game stand out. I want to play with the source of characters abilities in the setting. I've settled on the idea of different classes gaining attributes based on material they consume much like herbalism or...the game a boy and his blob. For example one class is the 'Vinegar Witch' who uses acidic foods, extracts and fluids to fill the DoT and debuff role traditionally attributed to 'Warlock' types. Monster w21 Faces fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jun 9, 2011 |
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Jun 9, 2011 16:06
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Old Hanz posted:So I'm playing though The Last Remnant on the PC. Jesus gently caress that game is one big ?????. I wouldn't mind the confusing mess of mysterious character skills and item crafting if the story was any good, but it's pretty drat terrible 14 year old fan fiction.
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Jun 9, 2011 16:20
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When it comes to class archetypes, I like the pre-DnD 4 where you didn't have the horrible MMO-trinity of Tank/DD/Healer. In DnD 2e, pretty much everyone is a DD, just in a different way. Clerics could dish out some serious damage in melee, if not as much as Fighters, while also calling down miracles and healing themselves/party. Fighters where the most versatile when it came to weapon types and such, thieves could be sneaky and back-stab, Mages were great at range but had only a limited number of spells, rangers could do lots of damage from far away or dual-wield and be awesome that way, etc. I personally enjoy the party structure in something like Baldur's Gate so much more than the modern holy trinity.
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Jun 9, 2011 16:57
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Monster w21 Faces posted:To give further info I'm knocking around a few ideas for an rpg that will make use of the connectivity between handheld gaming platforms (PSVita, 3DS, WiiU) and their parent consoles to employ the more traditional adventurers/dungeon master dynamic. Traditionally in single player games, you have a few options but really it's rare as hell that the generic dungeon crawler archetypes fail (tank, damage, healer). A problem with classic archetyping is that your end game balance gets really out of wack if you follow the standard physical vs magical conventions. Take a look at Etrian Odyssey 3 sometime. It had a very good class system that's been refined over 2 generations of that game and it's usually very tricky to get dual classing systems working well (although theirs has some problems too but it's probably one of the best in recent memory). HondaCivet posted:I still haven't entirely figured out the "Ninja" class in EO3. As for generic ninja subclassing, it's a skill multiplier due to the clone ability. Strap it to pretty much any DPS class that may benefit from cloning, or a support class if you need more support. Use your imagination on this one, it has a lot of uses, and you can further synergize by picking up some of the other ninja skills (increased evasion for survivability, etc). Rascyc fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jun 9, 2011 |
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Jun 9, 2011 17:14
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:For an opposing viewpoint, I tend to go for the Thief classes first. They tend to have to ability to get the most loot and unlock the most dialogue options. Yeah, for whatever reason I rarely like to go with one of the "holy trinity" simply because their roles are so vaguely defined. I loved Thief/Rogue classes because they get to do some damage, but usually in an interesting way. They also usually get to do cool things outside of combat. quote:Take a look at Etrian Odyssey 3 sometime. It had a very good class system that's been refined over 2 generations of that game and it's usually very tricky to get dual classing systems working well (although theirs has some problems too but it's probably one of the best in recent memory). I'd like to play this game, but how grindy is it compared to EO1/2, and do you still have to draw your own map? Because while I love putting notes on maps, having to draw walls always felt tedious to me.
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Jun 9, 2011 17:16
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Less grindy, you're still drawing the map. Totally the best of the trilogy though, hands down.
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Jun 9, 2011 17:19
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Monster w21 Faces posted:The question is: What do you think are the 'class' archetypes that are most important to have represented in a multiplayer or singleplayer RPG? For me, a good mix of antipodal, mixed or odd classes. I like playing a class that specializes in vampiric healing, or a ranged magic user that isn't a caster, or a very strong mixed close range fighter. But then again, I also play my mages as utility swiss knives, eschewing powerful direct damage for debuffs, buffs, traps and other such things. It feels better, to me, to be able to mix and match playstyles to have a character who isn't pigeonholed into one role or another.
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Jun 9, 2011 17:21
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Considerably less grindy. Some people even say it's a touch too easier compared to past Etrian Odyssey titles. Post-game EO3 is still pretty challenging and may require a FAQ if you don't want to be arsed to learn the patterns of some bosses. EO3 is a great game in all honesty. One of my favorite DS titles.
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Jun 9, 2011 17:22
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Did they reprint Dragon Quest V on the DS or something? It's $20 new on Amazon now. Pretty awesome. You couldn't touch a used copy for under $50 while it was out-of-print.
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Jun 10, 2011 07:19
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I've run into a bit of a problem. Since I learned to read, RPGs have been my favorite genre of game. I love the choices you can make with your characters as well as a good plot to keep you playing. The issue, is that I'm becoming disillusioned with my favorite genre. Time and time again, I will start an RPG and then abruptly quit. Usually, I find myself losing interest because of one of two things. The first is that the character customization isn't there. I've tried playing several of the FF games but find that I often run into the problem of "here's your character, this is his class, level him up to 100." During that time, the player really has no influence on the direction their character is developing, just mindlessly leveling them up. The second, and the biggest problem, is that the story just sucks. When I was little, collecting crystals to send the devil back to hell was cool but I can't sit through that poo poo anymore. Some of my early favorites were The Illusion Of Gaia (part of what kept me playing was wondering what that second dude I was gonna eventually transform into would be), Super Mario RPG, Shin Megami Tensei and other greats. It's been years between RPGs I've actually been able to finish now that I'm older. Persona 3 was amazing and, even though it took me 70 plus hours, I came back time and time again for the intrigue of the story, and the awesome persona fusing. For whatever reason, Persona 4 didn't hold my attention. The World Ends With You surprised the poo poo out of me and gave me enough variety in playstyle both via the unique combat system and the pin collecting to keep me playing. As far as DS games go, DQIX had an awesome skill/armor system, but just fell into a big grind. I'm generally a sucker for monster raising RPGs but only the most recent Pokemon kept my attention through the credits. Can't bring myself to play the endgame stuff. Maybe I've just done the same thing too many times at this point. So, basically, I'm just wondering if anyone has something to recommend. I love the class system in EO3 but don't feel there's enough of a story to keep me playing it. The story in Tactics Ogre for the PSP is fascinating but the gameplay drags way too slow for my tastes. All I'm looking for is a game that allows me some control over my main character, be it through choices in plot or skills/class branching stuff (preferably both). And a story I haven't seen a thousand times. I have a DS, PSP, PS2, Wii and a (broken) 360 available if that narrows things down. I know this all sounds finicky and dumb, but I just want to enjoy my favorite type of game again. I'll try pretty much anything once.
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Jun 10, 2011 08:50
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Try a translated rom of Der Langrisser for the SNES. It has branching classes for all of your playable characters and branching story paths that go in 3 or 4 different directions. Its a strategy RPG where you control strong generals that are surrounded by lumps of soldiers that are buffed if they stay near you. If you ever played Warsong on the Genesis, this is actually Warsong 2.
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Jun 10, 2011 09:20
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Any chance you can fix your 360 to play Dragon Age: Origins? I'm in the same boat, can't finish RPGs anymore, they don't hold my attention, but DAO was so well presented and paced that I got lost in it. The plot isn't as silly as most jPRGs, there's a fair amount of class customization that's possible too.
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Jun 10, 2011 09:31
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HondaCivet posted:Did they reprint Dragon Quest V on the DS or something? It's $20 new on Amazon now. Pretty awesome. You couldn't touch a used copy for under $50 while it was out-of-print. I paid $40 for it used. gently caress. Oh well.
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Jun 10, 2011 13:57
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