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I'm going into the tournament blind, I know it might be prudent to test, but I want it to be a surprise to see if my idea for a build will work.
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Jul 24, 2011 07:34
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With 128 fighters I imagine the rate of gladiator abandonment is going to be a bit higher than it was for the last tournament, due to the time it will take in the early rounds to get back to each guy. The adoption/reclaim system seemed to work pretty well last time though, so hopefully it's all good. If someone does adopt a gladiator, do they get assigned control of them on Jazzimus' site? And can this take them past the 4-gladiator-per-person limit on there?
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Jul 24, 2011 09:28
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Maugrim posted:If someone does adopt a gladiator, do they get assigned control of them on Jazzimus' site? And can this take them past the 4-gladiator-per-person limit on there? Yes and yes. We'll send an e-mail alert and give players advance notice if they are holding up the start of a round due to their fighter not having been updated, but once Vox decides to move forward with the next round, he'll probably allow fighters to be adopted in this thread by other players, with preference given to players who either couldn't join the tournament, or who have already had their fighters get eliminated. That's how it has worked in the past, anyway. Also, 105 spots claimed, only 23 open spots left!
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Jul 24, 2011 09:34
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One thing I noticed in testing is that wrestlers sure like to hold onto someone's arm then let it go without doing anything twenty times in a row while being slashed by their enemies other arm.
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Jul 24, 2011 14:05
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That's something that should be fixed for this tournament, as fighters will take advantage of crippling moves. And boy do they go for the kill.  Out of curiosity, I plopped in a 3d human model and stuck a volume calculator on it to try and get a more accurate representation of the races in this battle. Apart from the dwarf and the molemarians, I didnt alter the proportions, so the oddly limbed races are probably off. The calculation also assumes that everyone is the same density. I got this:  Yeti on the left, gremlin on the right. Not a stark size difference that the previous 2D analysis gave us the impression of. Synthbuttrange fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 14:08
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This looks like it could be fun! Gonna try to make a fighter that will be the best fighter there ever was!
Eastbound Spider fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 14:51
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Applebee123 posted:One thing I noticed in testing is that wrestlers sure like to hold onto someone's arm then let it go without doing anything twenty times in a row while being slashed by their enemies other arm. Yeah, wrestling has always been somewhat out of whack when controlled by the ai. If they do manage to grab a breakable limb, though, they tend to attempt a break if they can. The problem is they seem to pick targets to grasp at random, unlike the current striking ai, which is improved from pure random attacks. It's something that could really stand to be fixed, and also something I looked into fixing myself, to no avail. For now, wrestling-based fighters are stuck being less than dependable.
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Jul 24, 2011 19:22
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It might be worth pointing out that stranglers (and presumably ant women as well) having four limbs can actually wield almost all (if not all) weapons four handedly. They can for example use halberds four-handedly, certain weapons might be 3 handed, but I'm not sure.
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Jul 24, 2011 20:04
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Shorter Than Some posted:It might be worth pointing out that stranglers (and presumably ant women as well) having four limbs can actually wield almost all (if not all) weapons four handedly. They can for example use halberds four-handedly, certain weapons might be 3 handed, but I'm not sure. The game will actually let you cram as many giant weapons into creatures' hands as you tell it to. I'm not sure if the code actually considers using more than two hands to hold a weapon at this point. The weapon tags, anyway, only mention size requirements for single hand and two-handed use. Either way, for tournament purposes, I don't want stranglers wielding halberds and such- I don't think their frame could reasonably handle such large, unwieldy weapons. They're free to carry a ton of smaller items, though, if that's their thing. They also get the coveted bow plus shield combo. By the way, I did change things to allow dwarves to wield mauls and great axes this time around. They just seem too dwarfy to deny their use. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 20:37
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Vox Nihili posted:The game will actually let you cram as many giant weapons into creatures' hands as you tell it to. I'm not sure if the code actually considers using more than two hands to hold a weapon at this point. The weapon tags, anyway, only mention size requirements for single hand and two-handed use. Either way, for tournament purposes, I don't want stranglers wielding halberds and such- I don't think their frame could reasonably handle such large, unwieldy weapons. They're free to carry a ton of smaller items, though, if that's their thing. They also get the coveted bow plus shield combo. Ahh OK I was just testing my strangler and I wondered what would happen if I gave him a weapon which was designated as larger than two handed for him, I assumed it was just because he had four arms but I just checked and yeah a gremlin will still use a halberd.
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Jul 24, 2011 20:44
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Something I kept considering during the last tournament was a dual-spear ant woman. I'm almost tempted to give it a shot, but I suspect the results would be. . .well, messy.
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Jul 24, 2011 20:58
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Hey everyone, I just did some testing with regard to creature speed and found out that not everything is well. Minotuars, for example, were going way faster than they should be. Turns out that they had a bunch of powerful built-in attribute boosts that I failed to remove when initially modding them. They have now been fixed. This means that I will be posting a new set of raws for everyone and that any testing involving minotaurs up to this point has been terribly flawed in their favor. I will be investigating the speed of other creatures to make sure that things are looking good elsewhere, and updating everyone as I go. Ant women also seem to be moving somewhat slowly, but this may be due to their insectoid bodies and "working as intended" (they get other big boosts to compensate due to the lack of breakable bones.) If anyone is interested, the testing I'm doing involves spawning the creature in question in the arena, assuming direct control, and looking at their movement speed. Minotaurs were getting, I believe, 1072, which was way too high for them. Vox Nihili fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 21:07
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Orv posted:Something I kept considering during the last tournament was a dual-spear ant woman. I'm almost tempted to give it a shot, but I suspect the results would be. . .well, messy. How is dual wielding at the moment? Is it still you get parries but no attacks with the offhand? If so is there a way to guarantee which hand is the primary? So for example you don't buy a steel sword that never gets used.
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Jul 24, 2011 21:14
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Shorter Than Some posted:How is dual wielding at the moment? Is it still you get parries but no attacks with the offhand? If so is there a way to guarantee which hand is the primary? So for example you don't buy a steel sword that never gets used. Those were my main concerns in the matter, meaning I'd get little-to-no active defensive ability. And I honestly don't know what the situation is there currently, so I couldn't say. Maybe Vox can tell us. . .  V - Well then, I might have to swap my fighter. . .something to consider before we get going. Orv fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 21:25
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Orv posted:Something I kept considering during the last tournament was a dual-spear ant woman. I'm almost tempted to give it a shot, but I suspect the results would be. . .well, messy. The only problem with this concept is the cost of paying for two decent spears. Otherwise, or if you're willing to gamble with one or both made of cheap material, this is quite a decent set-up. Ants are a pretty good race, and I think spears may be their best choice as far as edged weapons. Shorter Than Some posted:How is dual wielding at the moment? Is it still you get parries but no attacks with the offhand? If so is there a way to guarantee which hand is the primary? So for example you don't buy a steel sword that never gets used. Okay, this is going to be a little complex. Your gladiator, assuming he has more than one weapon in his hands, picks which one he's using semi-randomly. Most of the time, a gladiator with decent weapon skill with one option and less/none with another will pick his best option. So if a spearman had a dagger in his offhand, he would favor the spear most of the time. I'd say 'all' the time, but once I saw this reverse itself, out of say a dozen tries. Not sure what was different there. Now, if you have several weapons that all use the same skill--say a wooden short sword and an adamantine longsword--the one he favors using seems to be random. It doesn't line up to what order you give them to the fighter or any other variable I can seem to control. However, off-hand weapons (all but the one randomly favored one) still count for two things: they all get their own parry chances, I'm pretty sure, and if a random chance for an attack comes up they'll use them then. If you're testing and you see a gladiator mix up his normal attack with bites and punches, that's these random chance attacks; an off-hand weapon can be used as well. So two weapons of the same skill but different materials/types is inherently a gamble. Two identical weapons is an expensive but interesting proposition. A good weapon and some off-hands of a different skill (and one you have less ranks in) is an alternative to a shield that gives you more offensive chance at the expense of more points and less defensive power, especially against bows.
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Jul 24, 2011 21:51
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ZeeToo posted:Useful Info
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Jul 24, 2011 22:18
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Shorter Than Some posted:Thanks, why would you say spears are the best edged weapons? They're the best edged weapon for defeating armor, generally, though against unarmored or poorly armored targets they do less damage than axes, swords, etc.
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Jul 24, 2011 22:47
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Shorter Than Some posted:Thanks, why would you say spears are the best edged weapons? They aren't for everyone. Edged weapons have to balance point costs versus contact area and strength versus weapon's power. If it costs too much, you don't have enough to buy your other useful things. Contact area is a double-edged sword; the smaller the contact area, the more likely you are to do some damage through armor, and more so as you have more strength. Small contact areas, though, don't injure the enemy as much; one knife hit isn't as likely to debilitate as a halberd hit. Large contact areas are worse against armor but a clean hit can lop off necessary bits of the body. Ants are very strong for their size, but they're small and their weapon options are limited. Their best options for edged weapons probably are a toss-up between spear, battleaxe, and longsword, and of those I've seen best results with the spear. I'd lean other ways for other races.
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Jul 24, 2011 22:55
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Vox Nihili posted:Hey everyone, I just did some testing with regard to creature speed and found out that not everything is well. Minotuars, for example, were going way faster than they should be. Turns out that they had a bunch of powerful built-in attribute boosts that I failed to remove when initially modding them. They have now been fixed. This means that I will be posting a new set of raws for everyone and that any testing involving minotaurs up to this point has been terribly flawed in their favor. I'll be sure to update my Creatures_arena.txt when you update that.
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Jul 24, 2011 23:05
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Just finished some testing of my own, the results of which were "Minotaurs are loving dangerous". Good to know they'll get something of a nerfing.
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Jul 24, 2011 23:24
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The tournament is now more than 90% full! Only 11 spots are still open!
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Jul 24, 2011 23:55
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By the way, since it looks like we'll get at least 128 interested participants, I'm reserving the 128th slot for a potential small preliminary free-for-all if we get a few extra interested people.
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Jul 25, 2011 00:08
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Vox Nihili posted:Minotuars, for example, were going way faster than they should be. Turns out that they had a bunch of powerful built-in attribute boosts that I failed to remove when initially modding them. They have now been fixed. Were these built-in attributes just "faster than normal" or was strength/endurance/toughness/etc affected too?
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Jul 25, 2011 02:58
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VladTheEater posted:Were these built-in attributes just "faster than normal" or was strength/endurance/toughness/etc affected too? There were a ton of large bonus attributes, so they were tougher in other ways as well. Sorry if anyone's testing has suffered as a result.
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Jul 25, 2011 03:01
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Vox Nihili posted:There were a ton of large bonus attributes, so they were tougher in other ways as well. Sorry if anyone's testing has suffered as a result. Oh, no, not at all...  *grin* Any idea when the new raws will be posted, then?
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Jul 25, 2011 03:04
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VladTheEater posted:Oh, no, not at all... Hopefully tonight! Tomorrow morning at the latest.
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Jul 25, 2011 04:15
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At this rate it's starting to look like the tournament make fill up before he releases the raws. We're only seven away!
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Jul 25, 2011 04:35
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Everyone  and let's get this started!
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Jul 25, 2011 04:41
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So we don't get our points yet, right?
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Jul 25, 2011 04:52
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Halloween Jack posted:So we don't get our points yet, right? As soon as the tournament is full, everyone gets their points. I'll probably change that for the next tournament. I had originally set it up this way so that Vox could make last-second changes to item or skill costs if he needed to.
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Jul 25, 2011 04:54
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If you're a goony tryhard min-maxer like me, you might enjoy this arena.txt edit that I made real quick. It replaces everything on every Z-level with row after row of identical test arenas. With some simple macros, you can set up hundreds of fights in mere minutes!   Just copy/paste it into Data/Init http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JKU5PGE7
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Jul 25, 2011 06:01
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Metamucil posted:If you're a goony tryhard min-maxer like me, you might enjoy this arena.txt edit that I made real quick. It replaces everything on every Z-level with row after row of identical test arenas. With some simple macros, you can set up hundreds of fights in mere minutes! I shall enjoy watching werewolves die for my amusement.
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Jul 25, 2011 06:04
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 ONLY TWO GUARANTEED* SPOTS LEFT IN THE TOURNAMENT! Enter your fighter NOW if you haven't already! *It is possible that the 128th spot will need to be earned in a Battle Royale, if there continues to be interest after the tourament is full. Jazzimus Prime fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 06:20
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Metamucil posted:If you're a goony tryhard min-maxer like me, you might enjoy this arena.txt edit that I made real quick. It replaces everything on every Z-level with row after row of identical test arenas. With some simple macros, you can set up hundreds of fights in mere minutes! You could've made those arenas tessellating diamonds with the correct number of x-spaces between starting corners and doubled the number of tests you can run!
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Jul 25, 2011 07:53
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Can we sell equipment between rounds to recoup some cost or are we stuck with it after we buy it? Sorry if this was answered before but I could not find it in the OP.
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Jul 25, 2011 08:08
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Bozikek posted:Can we sell equipment between rounds to recoup some cost or are we stuck with it after we buy it? Sorry if this was answered before but I could not find it in the OP. Yes, you may sell equipment between rounds for half the original purchase price.
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Jul 25, 2011 08:18
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Jazzimus Prime posted:Yes, you may sell equipment between rounds for half the original purchase price. Thanks much, now all I have to do is survive a round...
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Jul 25, 2011 09:02
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The speed values I came up with were pretty strange:quote:gremlin 1103 Even with minotaurs "fixed," a lot of values are off of what I would prefer. For example, kobolds are fairly slow, and stranglers are somehow quick. Trolls, yetis, and minotaurs are also faster than I had intended. Looking at the creature values, I can't find any other "mistakes" like there were for minotaurs. Perhaps it has to do with size and some really obscure tokens? Edit: Found some mistakes where physical attributes I added somehow had the mental attribute tag, which fixes things for the overly quick big guys mostly. I'll probably still want to make some slight changes before I'm satisfied with the speed, since it's such an important aspect now. New game file and a list of any changes will come tomorrow- for now, sleep.
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Jul 25, 2011 11:08
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Vox Nihili posted:The speed values I came up with were pretty strange: My only real problem with the list is that somehow Trolls are faster than Kobolds, yet they supposedly have the (-- agility) tag whilst Kobolds have (++ agility). It seems that pretty much all of the larger races need a bit of modding so they don't sweep the rest of the competition.
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Jul 25, 2011 11:15
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Is speed definitely the same thing as agility?
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Jul 25, 2011 11:16
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