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Smaller fighters do have the advantage of more points though. If more of those are spent on skill, they do have a good chance of ending up with superior stats, which can make the difference against a large opponent.
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Aug 1, 2011 03:24
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Aren't stats normalized now though, so you wouldn't get higher stats from a higher skill? (And needless to say, Tantrum Spiral is pissed with this result)
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Aug 1, 2011 03:32
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Vox Nihili posted:A few of the little guys so far also had fairly weak builds. I wouldn't count them out as a whole quite yet. The only close one we've seen is the human vs serpentman, right? The goblin/yeti was a huge size difference, and the dude with an adamantine weapon was sort of a waste of points. If Sir Hiss can beat a dwarf, which I really doubt, then my serpentman may have a good chance to pass more than one round.
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Aug 1, 2011 03:47
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Ramc posted:Aren't stats normalized now though, so you wouldn't get higher stats from a higher skill? How much weapon skill did you have, anyway? You parried nearly every shot.
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Aug 1, 2011 03:52
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Spermy Smurf posted:The only close one we've seen is the human vs serpentman, right? The goblin/yeti was a huge size difference, and the dude with an adamantine weapon was sort of a waste of points. A serpent man can definitely stand up to a dwarf. The size difference is such that in the case of charges, both fighters tend to go to the ground. Add to this that serpent men are faster and have 100 more points, and you've got an extremely balanced match. quote:If more of those are spent on skill, they do have a good chance of ending up with superior stats This isn't true anymore. All fighters generate with average stats for their race now, which is ultimately good for the little guys, since they will always get the first strike. They do need the superior skill levels though, because if they can't land a solid hit on their first few strikes, they probably won't get many more chances.
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Aug 1, 2011 05:32
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Vox Nihili posted:
So would a highly skilled Gremlin theoretically have a fighting chance against a Yeti if he had awesome stats?
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Aug 1, 2011 20:58
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Jimmy4400nav posted:So would a highly skilled Gremlin theoretically have a fighting chance against a Yeti if he had awesome stats? Actually, it's less of "a fighting chance" and more "guaranteed victory". I just run around a dozen or so battle with a Gremlin that had 1900 in every attribute that would affect battle, against a Yeti that had only 1000 in each attribute. Both of them would have steel long swords, and were otherwise unskilled. The Gremlin won every single battle, and didn't lose until I had two Yetis on a team against the little guy, and even then it was incredibly close. I think there was a battle in the last tournament where a guy spawned with fantastic attributes, and killed his opponent (who I'm pretty sure was a couple sizes larger than him) in one hit. Arrhythmia fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 21:24
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Arrhythmia posted:Actually, it's less of "a fighting chance" and more "guaranteed victory". I just run around a dozen or so battle with a Gremlin that had 1900 in every attribute that would affect battle, against a Yeti that had only 1000 in each attribute. Both of them would have steel long swords, and were otherwise unskilled. The Gremlin won every single battle, and didn't lose until I had two Yetis on a team against the little guy, and even then it was incredibly close. Was it the same gremlin, or did you reset every time? Because creatures learn EXTREMELY quickly in the arena, so if he survived the first couple matches intact, he was probably quite skilled by the end of it, as compared to the fresh opponents being brought in.
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Aug 1, 2011 21:35
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Oh, so physical attributes are randomly generated? Good to know.
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Aug 1, 2011 21:36
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No, they used to be, but with the latest version, they are always the average for that race.
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Aug 1, 2011 21:39
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FebrezeNinja posted:How much weapon skill did you have, anyway? You parried nearly every shot. The build was Hammerskill 6, Fighting 3 along with the plat hammer and iron mail.
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Aug 1, 2011 22:17
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Bad Munki posted:Was it the same gremlin, or did you reset every time? Because creatures learn EXTREMELY quickly in the arena, so if he survived the first couple matches intact, he was probably quite skilled by the end of it, as compared to the fresh opponents being brought in. That's a wonderful point. Yeah, I used the same gremlin every-time. I re-ran it, and out of thirty matches between a gremlin with 1900 in every attribute and a yeti with 1000 in each, both armed with steel long swords, the gremlins won twenty four of the matches. So, with the odds at five out of six for the gremlin, it's not a guaranteed win as I said earlier, but attributes make a massive difference. Most of the battles went the same way, with either the gremlin breaking the yeti's bones until it passed out, or the yeti would gain a lucky hit off the bat that would knock off on of the gremlin's limbs causing it to bleed out really quickly. It's also worth noting that I'm (mostly), using the vanilla raws, so a broken bone is a death sentence, but I think my point of "attributes are really, really important" still stands.
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Aug 1, 2011 23:18
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Definitely true. I just know I made the same mistake early on in one of the other tournaments, testing a build I thought was amazing, but it turned out that the amazing part was just that it survived round one, became awesome at everything, and then stomped all over the competition I provided. (No, I'm not referring to gently caress Rogers, although I wish I had that excuse.)
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Aug 1, 2011 23:32
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For everyone who tried to use the site to create a fighter with an apostrophe or quotation marks in its name, I've found the culprit that was causing all of the backslashes to appear. There were a couple of settings on my web host that were different than on my development server; I had fixed the obvious issue but just now fixed the less-obvious issue. Anyway, the gist of it is that quote marks and apostrophes in fighter names should work now, going forward.
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Aug 1, 2011 23:48
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I crave BLOOD!!!. When shall the next match commence? I wait with baited breath for the next results.
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Aug 2, 2011 03:41
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I'm not sure when the next match will start, but here's something you might enjoy in the meantime. Site members may now view their own betting history here. A link to this is also available under the "Manage User Account" link. And since betting information is public, you may also view others' betting histories from the betting leader board.
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Aug 2, 2011 03:44
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I don't know if it's possible, but if you want to try to ingest the historic betting records for the previous tournaments, I can certainly provide them. Otherwise, PM me and fill me in on your DB layout and I'll produce some sql myself. Just thought it might be fun to have the old stuff added in for history. 
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Aug 2, 2011 03:47
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Bad Munki posted:I don't know if it's possible, but if you want to try to ingest the historic betting records for the previous tournaments, I can certainly provide them. It's certainly possible. On that note, I still need to load the skills and items history for the second tournament, which Vox provided me the data for nine months ago...  Anyway, I'll send you the latest version of the data model.
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Aug 2, 2011 03:53
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A quick question, I placed a bet and won (admittedly I placed a bet for the other person that same round). did my winning and losing cancel each other out, or did I win some funds, because I was going to use any potential winnings to bet on more matches. If this was in the instructions, sorry if I missed it.
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Aug 2, 2011 04:10
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Jimmy4400nav posted:A quick question, I placed a bet and won (admittedly I placed a bet for the other person that same round). did my winning and losing cancel each other out, or did I win some funds, because I was going to use any potential winnings to bet on more matches. It looks like you're talking about the first match, Ko the Bold vs. Goobert. You came out ahead on this one, since you bet the same amount on each fighter, and the fighter that had the smaller amount of total money bet on it won the fight. I could probably add a "Payout" column to the View Player Bets and View Match Bets screens that would make this sort of thing clearer for bets on completed matches. Your newly-won funds will become available for betting, but not until the start of the 2nd round. This is how we've been doing bets in the past, and it's how it was implemented on the site. On the one hand, this makes for a very long wait up front, since half of the matches in a single-elimination tournament take place in the first round. On the other hand, the bets will get bigger and more exciting in the later rounds, as there are fewer matches for each player to divide their funds across. VVVVVV edit: Ko actually lost, but the way that I had laid out the Player Bet History charts, I actually made it look like the opposite had happened. I've changed the column order to be a bit more intuitive. VVVVVV Jazzimus Prime fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 04:20
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e: f;b, however it was Ko that won, and Ko had the greater amount of money on him, making for a net loss. Unless the total amount of money on each fighter was precisely the same, and your bets were both the same, you did not break even. The calculation for how much you win is as follows: (amount you bet on fighter / total amount bet on fighter by everyone) * total amount bet on fight It looks like you bet $50 on each guy. The amount on each fighter in that fight was 2865 and 1797, for Ko and Goobert, respectively. That means you lost the $50 on Goobert, and won ($50 / $2865) * 4662 = $81. So that bet alone made you a profit of $31, but you spent an additional $50 for a net loss of $19. That is to say, you put $100 into that fight, and came away with $81 in your pocket.
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Aug 2, 2011 04:23
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Okay, thanks for clearing up my confusion.
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Aug 2, 2011 04:30
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Furthermore, if the underdog (as determined by crowd favorite based on betting) had won, you would have walked away with about $130. Of course, the optimal course of action is to just pick the winner outright. 
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Aug 2, 2011 04:33
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Jazzimus Prime posted:VVVVVV edit: Ko actually lost, but the way that I had laid out the Player Bet History charts, I actually made it look like the opposite had happened. I've changed the column order to be a bit more intuitive. VVVVVV Huh, weird. Okay then, good job, Jimmy, you gained $30 for straddling the fence. Also agree re: showing the payoff on the player/match bets pages. That would be hugely useful.
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Aug 2, 2011 04:38
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Bad Munki posted:Also agree re: showing the payoff on the player/match bets pages. That would be hugely useful. Done, for the player bets! I'll try to put it in the match bets tomorrow. EDIT: Okay I lied... I got match bets to show payouts tonight as well! http://arenachallenge.com/dwarffort/view_match_bets.php?257 And now I'm done writing code for the night... Jazzimus Prime fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 05:08
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Jimmy4400nav posted:I crave BLOOD!!!. When shall the next match commence? I wait with baited breath for the next results. I worked late tonight, but I'll try to get through a match or two to placate the masses. If not, I will be able to run a bunch tomorrow.
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Aug 2, 2011 07:12
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Vox Nihili posted:I worked late tonight, but I'll try to get through a match or two to placate the masses. If not, I will be able to run a bunch tomorrow. Awesome, can't wait, I'm just happy whenever a match runs.
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Aug 2, 2011 07:13
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Vox Nihili posted:I worked late tonight, but I'll try to get through a match or two to placate the masses. If not, I will be able to run a bunch tomorrow. Oh god please run two, please. I'm so nervous about my match
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Aug 2, 2011 07:14
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Locomotive breath posted:Oh god please run two, please. I'm so nervous about my match Seeing as how the larger fighters are undefeated so far this season, you shouldn't be too worried.* *As they say in all of the mutual fund prospectuses (prospecti?), past performance is no guarantee of future results.
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Aug 2, 2011 08:35
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Vox Nihili posted:I worked late tonight, but I'll try to get through a match or two to placate the masses. If not, I will be able to run a bunch tomorrow. What time zone are you in? I'm wondering if your "tomorrow" is my "later today".
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Aug 2, 2011 09:15
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 Round One, Match SixMatch Six, Horza (Goodchild) vs. Tsundere Lamia (Albedo) Horza the troll is unarmed but heavily armored. Altogether, he has a copper helm, leather armor, iron mail, copper greaves, and copper high boots. Tsundere Lamia the serpent woman espouses an entirely different philosophy, ignoring armor entirely in favor of a silver war hammer and oak shield. Again, a mid-sized hammer user comes up against a heavyweight brawler- will Lamia fare better than her predecessors?  The warriors quickly engage, and though Lamia scores the first hit, her hammer fails to make any real impression, and Horza immediately knocks her to the ground with a solid headbutt.  Now, the beating begins in earnest, and when a troll is dishing it out, it's never pretty. Between tuskings and gorings, Horza finds the time to deliver a bone-shattering punch to Lamia's arm. The serpent woman holds herself together well, but now that she's at a disadvantage, it's unlikely she'll be able to get upright for more than a few seconds at a time.  Suddenly, though, Lamia puts on a burst of speed! She dodges one strike, then scrambles away from another. Back up on her tail, she leaps away from the on-rushing troll in time to avoid being brought down! Before she can rally a proper counter-attack, though, Horza strikes again, knocking the valiant serpent woman down with sudden ease ease. What follows is particularly gruesome.  At this point, Lamia should be, for all intents and purposes, disabled. But somehow she rallies enough strength to get back in the fight, getting up and avoiding another charge with a quick burst of energy! She swings her hammer at her mighty foe with great vigor- but misses entirely. Annoying, Horza rushes the smaller snake woman again- but Lamia manages to launch herself away in time yet again, and scores a bruising hit on Horza's torso as she passes!  Of course, Horza only charges again- but Lamia evades it even now!! She bashes the flustered troll directly in the back with her hammer, but again, the hit is cushioned by thick layers of armor and flesh, and does not significantly impact the troll's well-being. Horza, now completely incensed, charges once more, but Lamia is no where to be seen as the troll blitzes forward! Is the serpent woman untouchable?? No! In Horza's next charge, she crushes Lamia's weapon hand with her fist and launches the now-crippled serpent woman back into the dust! The next punch embeds bits of Lamia's skull into the arena tile.  Combat Log
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Aug 2, 2011 10:00
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Serpentman eyeballs are a delicacy in some fortresses, I hear. 
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Aug 2, 2011 10:11
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Ok, I am not wrestling a troll either.
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Aug 2, 2011 10:21
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Trolls seem pretty powerful. Wonder how they'll stack up in the later rounds as the points get away from them.
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Aug 2, 2011 10:24
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Larger fighters improve to 6-0 on the tournament, and Serpent Men fall to 0-4 all time in one-on-one arena matches. Klokwurk profits handsomely for betting heavily on Horza. I'm starting to believe that a small fighter with a blunt weapon is just not a winning build, especially now that broken bones aren't nearly as incapacitating as they have been in previous tournaments. However, if a little guy with a hammer can somehow manage to make it to the later rounds, I just might be proven wrong, considering all the points they'll have.
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Aug 2, 2011 10:52
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Yeah, I'm screwed.
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Aug 2, 2011 10:53
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Adus posted:Yeah, I'm screwed. No, you're fine. Totally fine. You are so fine there are not words for how fine you are. Except for the words, You're Fine.
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Aug 2, 2011 10:56
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Adus posted:Yeah, I'm screwed. For whatever it's worth, Dwarves have been extremely successful fighting races larger than their own, going 14-8 in such matches! Only Tigermen have a better winning percentage in this particular scenario, going 2-1 in an extremely small sample size of three such matches, all of them against Minotaurs. However, you can't really draw conclusions from previous tournaments, since the rules change each time. And a Dwarf has never fought a Werewolf before, so there's no precedent for this particular match. We'll see what happens tomorrow!   I like to think of myself as the Elias Sports Bureau of Dwarf Fortress Arena Challenge.  
Jazzimus Prime fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 11:33
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Great posts so far, Vox. While I'm impatient for my own gladiator's fight I think just one fight at a time is fine if it makes for regular updates. I'm surprised by the total dominance of the bigger critters so far, but it could just be a statistical anomaly. I sure hope so! On the other hand, all my betting has been exclusively on the basis of "which combatant is larger". My biggest bet is on my own opponent 
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Aug 2, 2011 13:21
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Examining my betting has proven I'm kind of awesome! Of course, with a betting strategy of "the biggest and the one with the coolest name" how can you go wrong!
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Aug 2, 2011 22:13
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