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The thing that get me about the cannon is that as far as I can tell the thing can't adjust it's direction, at all. It just points out towards the Wutai continent, which it could concievably hit but I don't believe it could actually hit the only town on the continent.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:06
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Cicadalek posted:The thing that get me about the cannon is that as far as I can tell the thing can't adjust it's direction, at all. It just points out towards the Wutai continent, which it could concievably hit but I don't believe it could actually hit the only town on the continent. Well, you'd only need a few degrees of lateral motion to be able to cover a wide arc at the range that thing's expecting to shoot from. I mean even half a degree left at 700 miles range is a BIG change in target. Alternately, it follows some trope about looking cool and impractical and therefore shut up, or something. I dunno.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:19
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I could swear that there's a FMV of it changing elevation and adjusting laterally.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:26
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tarepanda posted:I could swear that there's a FMV of it changing elevation and adjusting laterally. There is, the big thing it sits on has a big piston and can rotate to adjust the cannon. Not a huge range of fire, but probably enough to blast invading ships that are picked out far away by choppers.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:35
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I imagine that when you're building a massive cannon to shell a specific location and only that location, you don't really need it to be able to adjust directions too much.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:35
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kafziel posted:I imagine that when you're building a massive cannon to shell a specific location and only that location, you don't really need it to be able to adjust directions too much. Probably, yeah. Only enough to account for winds etc.
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Aug 5, 2011 01:47
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Cicadalek posted:The thing that get me about the cannon is that as far as I can tell the thing can't adjust it's direction, at all. It just points out towards the Wutai continent, which it could concievably hit but I don't believe it could actually hit the only town on the continent. It wasn't the only town before the war 
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Aug 5, 2011 02:04
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magikid posted:Seriously, look at Zidane or Freya's skillsets and tell me you'll ever use any of that.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:36
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Paracelsus posted:Thievery and Dragon Crest? Plus stealing poo poo was actually worthwhile. Lancer is also stronger than her physical attack at the cost of little MP, and Reis's Wind is Regen for everyone, useful for most of the game.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:38
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Paracelsus posted:Thievery and Dragon Crest? Plus stealing poo poo was actually worthwhile. The problem is that they had way more skills than that, but none of them were very useful.
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Aug 5, 2011 02:52
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Cicadalek posted:The thing that get me about the cannon is that as far as I can tell the thing can't adjust it's direction, at all. It just points out towards the Wutai continent, which it could concievably hit but I don't believe it could actually hit the only town on the continent. Or maybe that's the only town that is left!
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Aug 5, 2011 03:08
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Momomo posted:The problem is that they had way more skills than that, but none of them were very useful. Well, Flee was useful if you accidentally found yourself fighting Grand Dragons and Garudas. Detect was a must for any boss if it was your first time through the game. Lucky 7 is a decent enough chance--1:4--to do 7777 damage (and a chance to do the not-bad 777 instead, and then the 1:2 chance to do either 7 or 77 damage), but its mechanics are so opaque that most players ignore it, what with your ones-digit of HP having to be equal to 7, but the skill's description being that it "does damage based on luck." But it was purposefully done like that. What's That? is cool if you've got a fuckin' truck like Sacrifice is understandably a very "ehh" sort of skill. But like Sabin's Mantra, I guess it has its uses. Soul Blade could be better if status effects were very important (though it's still very good in certain parts of the game, and it frees up 3 Ability Crystals that you would otherwise spend on Add Status), but I like it like that. As for Freya, the only two really useless abilities in her repitoire are Dragon Breath and Six Dragons, and only because percentage attacks (Dragon Breath) always suck, and because Six Dragons, while it did have a 1:6 chance of basically being a megalixir for your party, had a 5:6 chance to turn the tables against you catastrophically. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Aug 5, 2011 |
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Aug 5, 2011 03:27
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The White Dragon posted:As for Freya, the only two really useless abilities in her repitoire are Dragon Breath and Six Dragons, and only because percentage attacks (Dragon Breath) always suck. Actually, Dragon Breath does damage equal to the total damage done so far to the target to every enemy. So if Zidane hit something for 500, Vivi for 750, and Amarant for 600, then Dragon Breath would do 1850 to it and every other enemy.
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Aug 5, 2011 04:03
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Frocobo posted:Actually, Dragon Breath does damage equal to the total damage done so far to the target to every enemy. So if Zidane hit something for 500, Vivi for 750, and Amarant for 600, then Dragon Breath would do 1850 to it and every other enemy. That is loving awesome. I need to use this skill.
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Aug 5, 2011 04:13
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magikid posted:Really, the only things I can think of that would really improve FFIX would be to make its battles snappier, get rid of Trance (because what the gently caress), and make like half the skills actually do something useful. Seriously, look at Zidane or Freya's skillsets and tell me you'll ever use any of that.
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Aug 5, 2011 05:32
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Now someone has to bring up how annoying it is to bring Quina and people will mention the real use for her worthless spells. I have yet to take advantage of Steiner/Vivi and I might regret not taking advantage of their symmetry.
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Aug 5, 2011 05:34
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Scalding Coffee posted:Now someone has to bring up how annoying it is to bring Quina and people will mention the real use for her worthless spells. I have yet to take advantage of Steiner/Vivi and I might regret not taking advantage of their symmetry. Why don't more games let characters combine attacks? It's awesome.
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Aug 5, 2011 05:43
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sudonim posted:Vivi/Steiner is a rare instance of combined attacks outside of Chrono Trigger. The entire Suikoden series loves that poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2011 05:47
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Scalding Coffee posted:Now someone has to bring up how annoying it is to bring Quina and people will mention the real use for her worthless spells. Auto-Life is very circular because you use it, die, use it, and then Limit Glove away since it always brings you back at 1 HP, and Frog Drop can be ground up to do 9999 damage. But pretty much all the other spells can be easily ignored: Aqua Breath is percentage-based, LvX-effect just isn't very compatible with many enemies, support buffs (Vanish, Great Guard) are entirely unnecessary, Earth Shaker has too low of a base power, and Twister is too randomized. quote:I have yet to take advantage of Steiner/Vivi and I might regret not taking advantage of their symmetry.  Crowetron posted:The entire Suikoden series loves that poo poo. 
Fur20 fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Aug 5, 2011 |
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Aug 5, 2011 05:47
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sudonim posted:Why don't more games let characters combine attacks? It's awesome. MAGICAL NUKE BOOMERANG 
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Aug 5, 2011 06:02
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The Simpsons arcade game was the best for this, especially Homer + Marge. Now if only Vincent and Yuffie would do that move...
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Aug 5, 2011 13:33
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U.T. Raptor posted:Inuyasha: Secret of the Cursed Mask let everyone combine attacks with everyone else. But you have to be friends first, and sometimes they were useless. What's the difference between Miroku just sucking up monsters and having Sango hit them with her chain first?
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Aug 5, 2011 14:10
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One of the (very) few things that FF4: The After Years added were combo attacks. I never really bothered with them, but there are a ton of them for a bunch of different characters that do a variety of different things, including breaking the damage limit.
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Aug 5, 2011 14:28
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The vast majority of the Bands are useless and much worse than what you could get just by having both characters Attack, but some (Cross Slash, Vibra Edge Plus, Mirage Dive, Sky Grinder) charge up fast enough to make it worth it. And, if you really just want to see something flashy and overpowered, Final Fantasy is pretty cool.
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Aug 5, 2011 15:04
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Update coming later today/tomorrow, depending on your timezone 
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Aug 6, 2011 00:09
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Going back to the contention that the game would have stuck to the initial tone more if Midgar took up a much heftier portion of the world, Junon kinda sorta feels like it should be closer to the city. It's carried on the super industrial setting and worse yet, while Midgar itself is just a large, corrupt and looming city, this port with it's pipes, pollution and rusty corrosion is right next to the loving ocean. We *see* the damage done to the enviornment, not just a big-rear end sprawl with concrete and support beams covering up everything (this is not a slam on Midgar itself, mind, I'm just saying that nature/the planet is buried underneath.) It drives home this idea that no matter how far you travel you can't escape Shin-Ra's influence.
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Aug 6, 2011 01:07
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TKMobile posted:Going back to the contention that the game would have stuck to the initial tone more if Midgar took up a much heftier portion of the world, Junon kinda sorta feels like it should be closer to the city. I totally agree with this. I would have either much preferred Midgar be the entire game, or that Midgar have much more influence across the world. Instead of... loving Kalm. What a waste of a city.
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Aug 6, 2011 01:13
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I agree. We just escaped from a city with mass pollution and poverty headed by a corporation who has themselves in their best interests and not the planet. Let's hightail it to a boring town with a hotel and a pub and that's it. You can't really see the effects Shinra has on the place, which we just spent the last 5-6 hours escaping from. I wish the whole game was in Midgar and that Shinra was the villain, not Sephiroth. Sure there's Corel and Wutai and arguably Nibelheim, but Shinra's control doesn't seem too big once you leave Junon. Sure, some characters hate Shinra, but you don't really see the heavy pollution and poverty we saw in Midgar and Junon outside of Corel. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Aug 6, 2011 |
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Aug 6, 2011 01:28
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Well, I think it's okay if Midgar doesn't cover the ENTIRE planet; some of the later places are still breathtaking and don't ruin things by not being corrupted industrial... ...but after being in Shadowrun city for awhile, put yourself in Avalanche's many shoes: you're on the run, trying to not be killed by a huge mega corporation. While fleeing, you cross some really cool areas like a swamp with a HOLY poo poo kind of monster snake, a resources depleted mountain range with some nice visuals and unassuming lowlands before you finally get to the edge of the continent. You've just run through the boonies. Places that even Shin-Ra overlooks because who the gently caress cares about the monster swamp with *no* resources or mines they've excavated everything from. But you're getting out of the corp's reach is the point. Here's where you're thinking that you really are finally escaping and the rest of the world will provide some form of haven while you figure out what that loving nut-job General guy with the no-dachi is up to. ...Except upon hitting the coast you find yourself stuck in a polluted, rusting military port with a big gently caress-off cannon that's aimed in the general vicinity of the last major opponent to Shin-Ra grabbing the world by the balls. It's a powerful, gripping scenario to play a game around, except that the first places in your exodus were a town from a completely different, earlier FF game, and a cutesy wutesy Chocobo Farm. Couldn't Kalm have been like a bunch of gas stations and cheap tarmac, with some more dilapidated buildings and silos?
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Aug 6, 2011 01:41
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Well, remember, Midgar and Junon are on the same continent. In that respect Kalm is a bit out fo place, but I think it works as a spot to rest and gather your breath. It als demonstrates how rule by Shinra can work if things go right, and even then most people are unemployed since Shinra made their main employment obsolete. Corel, Nibelheim, Gongaga, Rocket Town, and Wutai are all heavily influenced by Shinra (mostly ruined in one way or another), but being on different continents they're much less under Shinra's thumb. Shinra may only control the cities on Midgar Continent, but there's only one city in the entire game that hasn't been screwed over by Shinra in one way or another. Edit:^^^ Yeah, Kalm and the Chocobo Farm provide a nice bit of deception as you think you've escaped Shinra only to cross the swamp and eventually the ocean only to see that Shinra is everywhere. Golden_Zucchini fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Aug 6, 2011 |
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Aug 6, 2011 01:46
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While it would have possibly hurt the pacing (regarding the team having to stop and reminisce about the past), I still think if the nice, friendly village and chocobo farm came *after* Cloud and Co's escape into the very dangerous boonies, you'd still get a better effect being stunned by Shin-Ra's reach and ruthlessness just when you think it's going to be safe.
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Aug 6, 2011 01:57
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Golden_Zucchini posted:Well, remember, Midgar and Junon are on the same continent. In that respect Kalm is a bit out fo place, but I think it works as a spot to rest and gather your breath. It als demonstrates how rule by Shinra can work if things go right, and even then most people are unemployed since Shinra made their main employment obsolete. That's how I feel about the whole sequence between Midgar and Junon. Dry padding after total awesomeness.
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Aug 6, 2011 02:59
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I could have sworn we already had the "Midgar should have been the whole game" discussion, but okay. I still think it wouldn't have been as great as everyone makes it out to be. I would probably be tired of brown techno-steampunk city after 60 hours. Just because Kalm is a boring town does not really make a good argument that the first setting should have been the only one. Too much of one place is bad no matter what. We also never would have got The Forgotten City if the whole thing was in Midgar.
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Aug 6, 2011 03:12
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Yeah, I think most of the game's world is good enough to not be replaced with more Midgar. That said, it did have the game's best atmosphere, I think people just want that same level of quality the entire time.
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Aug 6, 2011 03:21
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Adus posted:We also never would have got The Forgotten City if the whole thing was in Midgar. The entire Northern Continent is fantastic.
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Aug 6, 2011 03:25
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Adus posted:I could have sworn we already had the "Midgar should have been the whole game" discussion, but okay. I still think it wouldn't have been as great as everyone makes it out to be. I would probably be tired of brown techno-steampunk city after 60 hours. Just because Kalm is a boring town does not really make a good argument that the first setting should have been the only one. Too much of one place is bad no matter what. It worked for the Blade Runner videogame. Why would it not work for a Final Fantasy game?
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Aug 6, 2011 03:25
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Azure_Horizon posted:It honestly feels like the creators were like "wow Midgar is way too cool and definitely the best place in the game, but it feels little like Final Fantasy so let's put a Final Fantasy-esque exposition town because we can". The reason Midgar is so awesome is because it has a perfect build-up, timing and pace. Kalm has to be, as the name implies, calm. Midgar is very tense and has a climax - if the tension dropped anywhere, then Midgar would cease to be so amazing and would become boring. But if the tension went on for longer, it would become either boring due to becoming sparse, or unbearable due to not going anywhere. It had to have a resolution. So you have a climax, and the moment until the Flashback exists to "cool-down". While yes, Kalm and the later could be done better, I'm pretty sure most changes in Midgar would only make it worse.
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Aug 6, 2011 03:38
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Elentor posted:The reason Midgar is so awesome is because it has a perfect build-up, timing and pace. Kalm has to be, as the name implies, calm. Midgar is very tense and has a climax - if the tension dropped anywhere, then Midgar would cease to be so amazing and would become boring. But if the tension went on for longer, it would become either boring due to becoming sparse, or unbearable due to not going anywhere. It had to have a resolution. I think Kalm would have been improved by being a suburb or some sort of annexed extension of Midgar instead of take-an-exposition-dump town. I can see its purpose, it's just that the fact that it supplicates a bunch of flashbacks and little else sours my interest in the place. It doesn't really serve much purpose as an actual town. Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Aug 6, 2011 |
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Aug 6, 2011 03:42
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Yeah, I think Kalm was intended to be a stark contrast to Midgar. You've just spent the last several hours in dark brown/gray depressing Midgar, with oppressive music, oppressed citizenry, screen after screen of dilapidated and ruined slums, and a general feeling of hopelessness. You finally escape, and then you see that beyond Midgar the world isn't such a bad place. There's grass, and nicely maintained buildings, and relaxing music, and loving sunlight. It's there to show that the world is worth fighting for, and what things could be like if Shinra wasn't crushing everything underfoot with their presence. Then you get to Junon so you don't forget about Shinra for too long, but they wanted to show players that "things don't have to be like that shithole Midgar."
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Aug 6, 2011 03:57
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I thought when I first played FF7 back in 1998, that Midgar was the world. When Barratt proudly proclaims after blowing up the first mako reactor that the next step is to blow up another one. I naively assumed that the M.O was total midgar reactor destruction and that the game took place entirely inside midgar by Avalanche! I had absolutely no knowledge of the game at all (The sales assistant at HMV was trying to sell me a discworld game)and that just made the twists and turns the plot takes even better. FF7 was really only the third RPG I'd ever played (The other two being "Zelda a Link to the Past" and "Secret of Mana") I wish I could play it now, but I've started again pretty much every year since 1998 and now at age 25 it's starting to wear a tiny bit thin. I'm still shite compared to you guys tho, I've never had a gold chocobo, beaten the basketball Gold Saucer game or killed any of the nonmandatory weapons. Oh and the only enemy skills I seem to get are; matra magic, death sentence, trine, aqualung, the fire one from the mines and the sleep frog one.
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Aug 6, 2011 04:09
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