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Some readers who are unaware of how the Mongol invasion of the Middle East might affect us (or just want to brush up) might want to read this wikipedia article, especially this part:quote:The caliph was captured and forced to watch as his citizens were murdered and his treasury plundered. According to most accounts, the caliph was killed by trampling. The Mongols rolled the caliph up in a rug, and rode their horses over him, as they believed that the earth was offended if touched by royal blood. All but one of his sons were killed, and the sole surviving son was sent to Mongolia, where Mongolian historians report he married and fathered children, but played no role in Islam thereafter (see Abbasid: The end of the dynasty).
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Aug 11, 2011 05:13
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theblastizard posted:How exactly did CK do Timur? It doesn't.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:22
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Daeren posted:You don't really know how the Mongols rolled, do you. ... actually, a lot like that. Well, it'd be bad for the dynasty, but the Mongols were pretty as governors, (thinking of the rich and taxable cities of China as good land for pasture, e.g.) often turned over effective control of the state to the most capable/sycophantic of the conquered. The sack of Baghdad death of the Caliph via trampling was a real blow to the Islamic Golden Age, but Muslim administrators ended up in high ranking positions scattered all over the Empire.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:26
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Pakled posted:It doesn't. I just figured he was a high martial leader of some random Khanate.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:30
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i poo poo trains posted:Some readers who are unaware of how the Mongol invasion of the Middle East might affect us (or just want to brush up) might want to read this wikipedia article, especially this part: Also important to say that at the time Baghdad was one the biggest and most advanced cities in the world But If I remember correctly the mongols only sacked it so badly because the caliph refused to submit to them.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:36
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the JJ posted:... actually, a lot like that. Well, it'd be bad for the dynasty, but the Mongols were pretty as governors, (thinking of the rich and taxable cities of China as good land for pasture, e.g.) often turned over effective control of the state to the most capable/sycophantic of the conquered. The sack of Baghdad death of the Caliph via trampling was a real blow to the Islamic Golden Age, but Muslim administrators ended up in high ranking positions scattered all over the Empire. True. I was thinking specifically of the Sack of Baghdad and other general "We are the loving Mongols, messing with us is a bad plan" raids when I said that, though. In the long term, kissing Mongol rear end might be beneficial if the Mongols do indeed trundle through half of Europe like they seem to do a lot, but it will probably end horribly for our current array of nobles.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:36
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People really love to play up the sack of Baghdad but it's not like Baghdad was the Capital of Islam. It was long past its prime at that point. Now if the Mongols had gone on to sack Damascus and Cairo, that would be something.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:36
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Daeren posted:You don't really know how the Mongols rolled, do you. Surrendering and becoming a Mongol vassal worked pretty well for Serbia in the Serbia LP, but it required Sam. to modify his primary title so he could offer it to the Mongol overlords.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:39
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Daeren posted:You don't really know how the Mongols rolled, do you. Actually, that's what they did historically: first they offered unconditional surrender and vassalization with a horde supervising the new territory and extracting tribute, and if they refused they killed you all (ALL) and administered the dead area directly. In the second outcome, a possible inevitably failing colonization (more like new herding ground for the livestock of individual troops) would happen afterwards 
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Aug 11, 2011 05:47
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theblastizard posted:I just figured he was a high martial leader of some random Khanate. CK doesn't have any historical characters that are set to appear at a particular time aside from those who exist at the beginning of a campaign. The deterministic nature of the game makes scenarios even remotely similar to history go out the window within 20 years of starting a campaign. If you start the game in 1066, for example, it wouldn't make sense for Richard the Lionheart to suddenly come into being a century later since the moment the player takes control in 1066 all sorts of stuff could happen that would prevent Eleanor of Aquitaine or Henry II from even existing, much less getting married and having a son.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:54
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Spiderfist Island posted:Actually, that's what they did historically: first they offered unconditional surrender and vassalization with a horde supervising the new territory and extracting tribute, and if they refused they killed you all (ALL) and administered the dead area directly. In the second outcome, a possible inevitably failing colonization (more like new herding ground for the livestock of individual troops) would happen afterwards Usually the didn't kill everyone. They would take a lot of slaves to use as human shields during sieges, and they would also allow a small number to survive to escape to the next city so that they could tell the tale of the horrible and destructive Mongols so that the next city would already be shaking in their boots and ready to surrender when they got there. The Mongols were scary dudes.
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Aug 11, 2011 05:58
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At least it isn't pre patch 1.2 CK mongols. Now THOSE guys were bad rear end*, I'm hoping Wiz doesn't chicken out here and play with the inferior, later, version  *As in "Better hitch a ride to Iceland and hide for the remaining two hundred years", bad rear end 
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Aug 11, 2011 06:02
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Looks like things are pretty crazy in spain. Every map we get has the reconquista going strongly in a different direction. First the christians were dominating, then the muslims made a comeback, and now it looks like they're on the verge of being pushed off the Iberian peninsula.
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Aug 11, 2011 06:25
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niggapolis posted:But If I remember correctly the mongols only sacked it so badly because the caliph refused to submit to them. Ertan seems like a pretty reasonable and humble guy who knows his limits. He'll definitely bend the knee if it comes to that.
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Aug 11, 2011 06:35
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Pakled posted:CK doesn't have any historical characters that are set to appear at a particular time aside from those who exist at the beginning of a campaign. The deterministic nature of the game makes scenarios even remotely similar to history go out the window within 20 years of starting a campaign. If you start the game in 1066, for example, it wouldn't make sense for Richard the Lionheart to suddenly come into being a century later since the moment the player takes control in 1066 all sorts of stuff could happen that would prevent Eleanor of Aquitaine or Henry II from even existing, much less getting married and having a son.
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Aug 11, 2011 07:23
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After reading the Hohenzollern LP I ended up buying CK, and finding out that it's more fun reading these paradox LP's then actually playing it. I could go into detail about how frustrating going into massive debt because people will not stop constantly declaring war on me (on the lowest aggression setting) while the AI happily remains solvent, but in the end I just found that the game had a massive and detailed historical simulator with no actual part I found fun. I just kept wishing it had a Total war-style battlefield system rightly or wrongly. I'm glad I was able to get in early on this one, and looking forward to forming the greater Azerbaijan empire in EU3/victoria, if we survive the mongols  Pimpmust posted:*As in "Better hitch a ride to Iceland and hide for the remaining two hundred years", bad rear end Okay now I really want to read a paradox LP in which that happens.
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Aug 11, 2011 07:28
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Holy crap, another Wiz LP. Yes yes yes yes!  EDIT: Wow, Ertan is pretty badass. The fact that he survived all those wars in loving Crusader Kings probably means that he's able to take the entire Mongol Horde by himself and win. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 09:19
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i poo poo trains posted:Some readers who are unaware of how the Mongol invasion of the Middle East might affect us (or just want to brush up) might want to read this wikipedia article, especially this part: Haha, this is the Mongol version of "take off your shirt, I don't want to get blood on it."
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Aug 11, 2011 10:12
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LordBaxter posted:After reading the Hohenzollern LP I ended up buying CK, and finding out that it's more fun reading these paradox LP's then actually playing it. I could go into detail about how frustrating going into massive debt because people will not stop constantly declaring war on me (on the lowest aggression setting) while the AI happily remains solvent, but in the end I just found that the game had a massive and detailed historical simulator with no actual part I found fun. I just kept wishing it had a Total war-style battlefield system rightly or wrongly. Yeah, CK as a straight game is kinda boring overall. A lot of sitting around twiddling your thumbs. The real fun of the game is watching the insane things your court gets up to - which is mostly random, and thus requires sitting around twiddling your thumbs until something happens (Or else going on massive wars that overstretch your empire to its very limits).
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Aug 11, 2011 10:22
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So with all of Europe collapsed, how much hope do they have of stopping the Golden Horde?
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Aug 11, 2011 10:37
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I think it's worth noting that the Mongols sacked Baghdad so bad, the city still hasn't recovered from it to this day (although other foreign invaders might have hindered the recovery process). And one additional detail which makes the Horde so scary in CK. Unless a nation belongs to a different religion, you need a claim to take their land. If a nation is a religious enemy, you can just declare a war and take their provinces unconditionally. Mongols treat everyone as a religious enemy.
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Aug 11, 2011 10:46
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Can we go the route of strangling the child in its crib? That is to say, The Il-Khanate is right there and they only have one province. Declare war and murder it to death so we can avoid the horrific wave of death that would otherwise occur.
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Aug 11, 2011 11:14
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Gregoriev posted:Can we go the route of strangling the child in its crib? That is to say, The Il-Khanate is right there and they only have one province. Declare war and murder it to death so we can avoid the horrific wave of death that would otherwise occur. They have one province but probably at least 60,000 troops in it. Isn't quite that easy.
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Aug 11, 2011 11:17
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Easy is a relative term, wait a few years and then look at the "easy" options to survive.
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Aug 11, 2011 11:21
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Gregoriev posted:Can we go the route of strangling the child in its crib? That is to say, The Il-Khanate is right there and they only have one province. Declare war and murder it to death so we can avoid the horrific wave of death that would otherwise occur. I might be wrong but that one province probably has like, a bazillion soldiers in it who are currently immune to attrition.
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Aug 11, 2011 11:23
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Ilanin posted:They have one province but probably at least 60,000 troops in it. Isn't quite that easy. And if we do destroy them then they'll always pop up again later!
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Aug 11, 2011 12:05
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Archaeology Hat posted:I might be wrong but that one province probably has like, a bazillion soldiers in it who are currently immune to attrition. Don't forget that a number of those soldiers are the Mongol-only horse archers of great power!
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Aug 11, 2011 14:28
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It seems that poor Aydogu has lost the favour of Allah, to have such a force invade his territory. Perhaps we shall be fortunate and leader of the invaders will fall fighting in Khwarizm, perhaps we should send out assasins to help this along.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:09
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Sending out assassins to try and slay the leader of the Mongol Hordes? I see no way that could possibly go wrong.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:25
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Tomn posted:Sending out assassins to try and slay the leader of the Mongol Hordes? I see no way that could possibly go wrong. Clearly we need to send more assassins. Besides, it's not like they'll sppare those who line up and fight fair.
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Aug 11, 2011 15:47
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Sending assassins, whether or not the assassin actually succeeds (or even if it gets discovered), increases your badboy. You guys who were originally complaining about how everyone hates Ertan for destroying Jerusalem are going to get even more angry. (Though I have heard rumors that Christians get a badboy discount for conquering territory held by non-Christian countries while Muslims get the full Badboy penalty, so I can feel your pain.) Servant fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 18:43
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We better start kissing some Mongolian rear end.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:46
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Tomn posted:Sending out assassins to try and slay the leader of the Mongol Hordes? I see no way that could possibly go wrong. Mongols have semisalic gavelkind, right? If they do, that means we should wait until they get bigger to assassinate the Khan, so it'll be split up into a bunch of feuding Mongol realms.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:49
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Sam. posted:Mongols have semisalic gavelkind, right? If they do, that means we should wait until they get bigger to assassinate the Khan, so it'll be split up into a bunch of feuding Mongol realms. I believe they get it after some time through an event.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:54
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Well, in that case I guess we'll just wait while they grab everything east of the Caspian. Who knows, we may get lucky and they may head North after crushing Khwarizm. If not we'll be right in the invasion corridor.
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Aug 11, 2011 18:57
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I've always got bored with CK shortly after Black Death, so I don't have any personal experience fighting the Mongols, but here's a strategy I've heard. With their ridiculous numbers, you're never likely to defeat the Horde in battle, but you can outmaneuver them. You need to conquer territories back faster than they can conquer new territories. So instead of piling into one huge army, like the Mongols now have, you need to have several small ones, each attacking empty provinces.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:10
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steinrokkan posted:I believe they get it after some time through an event. Also they only ever have 1 kingdom title so it's not as crippling to the mongols as it is to other countries. Lord Hypnostache posted:I've always got bored with CK shortly after Black Death, so I don't have any personal experience fighting the Mongols, but here's a strategy I've heard. With their ridiculous numbers, you're never likely to defeat the Horde in battle, but you can outmaneuver them. You need to conquer territories back faster than they can conquer new territories. So instead of piling into one huge army, like the Mongols now have, you need to have several small ones, each attacking empty provinces.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:21
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Brutus Salad posted:I had control of Persia from the start of the game. Well, no problem here altough i still prefer a massive immigration to Ireland while the Mongols destroy everything.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:54
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Lord Hypnostache posted:I've always got bored with CK shortly after Black Death, so I don't have any personal experience fighting the Mongols, but here's a strategy I've heard. With their ridiculous numbers, you're never likely to defeat the Horde in battle, but you can outmaneuver them. You need to conquer territories back faster than they can conquer new territories. So instead of piling into one huge army, like the Mongols now have, you need to have several small ones, each attacking empty provinces. I've changed the Mongols so their armies gradually phase in, meaning they get multiple armies instead of one megastack. It makes them a lot harder to outmanuever like this.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:57
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Wiz posted:I've changed the Mongols so their armies gradually phase in, meaning they get multiple armies instead of one megastack. It makes them a lot harder to outmanuever like this. Well, I'm glad I'm not the one playing the game!
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Aug 11, 2011 20:02
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