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Not that I don't agree that his response misses the point of the criticism, but that's sort of to be expected. I mean, if you put yourself in his shoes: you've written a book that you like that includes a bunch of sex scenes with a magical fairy. You haven't read or heard any specific criticisms about that section, but some guy in a live chat tells you that criticisms exist, but does not specify what they are, and asks how you react to them. Are you more likely to come to the conclusion that people are criticizing you because the section (that you think is well-written otherwise you wouldn't have put it in the book) is bad and juvenile, or because the standard fantasy fan (on average probably more like Rothfuss than a well-adjusted person) can't handle sex in their fantasy books? Obviously the latter. That doesn't really excuse him from not having read some criticism, because that's how you become a better writer, but in his circumstances we likely would all draw the same conclusion and likely answer in a similar vein.
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Aug 8, 2011 13:26
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BananaNutkins posted:I think the problem most people have is that Kvothe is a goon because Rothfuss is a goon. It's poor form to self-insert yourself, but it feels like that's what he's done. Since the author hasn't written any other books, we don't know if he can write any other persona, and the characters here are all viewed through a goony lens, especially the women. The problem I have is that Kvothe is a goon and is also treated by basically everyone he meets as this magnificent hero. Also, he's right to treat Denna the way he does because as soon as he stops creeping up on her she gets mad, as if creeping up on her is actually what she wants in a man. It's like Ignatius J Reilly if everyone he met admired him and women swooned when he glanced contemptuously at them and his mom was killed by evil fairies All that said, what was he supposed to say about the sex scenes? If he ignores criticism on forum messageboards as a matter of course (and really that's not a stupid thing to do), he probably has no idea what people dislike about his books.
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Aug 8, 2011 13:30
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In the bizzaro universe of Patrick Rothfuss, socially inept and awkward characters are recognized and admired for the true hero that Patrick is. I mean that Kvothe is. It's self-insertion nerd fantasy, and the way he responded to criticism emphasizes how out of touch with other human beings he is.
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Aug 8, 2011 14:30
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Sophia posted:Not that I don't agree that his response misses the point of the criticism, but that's sort of to be expected. I mean, if you put yourself in his shoes: you've written a book that you like that includes a bunch of sex scenes with a magical fairy. You haven't read or heard any specific criticisms about that section, but some guy in a live chat tells you that criticisms exist, but does not specify what they are, and asks how you react to them. That's pretty much what I thought about it. I mean, none of his response is especially untrue, it's just not applicable to the question that was actually asked. I mean, I like sex in my books. I like gratuitous sex in my books. I eagerly await my new Jacqueline Carey books in June. I didn't really have a problem with the gratuitous sex in the Adem part of WMF. The issue I have with Felurian can be summed up in six words: "... and it goes on like this." I don't really care about how goony he is or isn't, it's just a criminal flaw in pacing.
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Aug 8, 2011 16:17
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Above Our Own posted:In the bizzaro universe of Patrick Rothfuss, socially inept and awkward characters are recognized and admired for the true hero that Patrick is. I mean that Kvothe is. I mean, I think we could have and pretty much did guess that from a single photo...
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Aug 8, 2011 19:39
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Maybe we can get Rothfuss to read this thread and his confidence will plunge, his psyche will shatter into a million pieces a la Scott Lynch, and we will never get to read book three, also like Scott Lynch. New topic: on the goon scale, Scott Lynch is like an eleven, whereas Rothfuss tops out at an Aspergerian 9er. Lynch named his character in homage of a final fantasy character. Lynch lives in the Midwest with his parents and disappears for years at a time. One of his last blog posts was outrage about the Blizzard Real ID program. Lynch's books talk endlessly about a girl the reader never meets, as if she is so perfect that to see her would ruin her. I have a feeling this is why the third book is taking so long--Lynch realized he would have to put her in at some point, but can't bear to put into words his idealization of the perfect fantasy women. Lynch started a weekly serialized novel on his website something like two years ago and has since then posted 6 updates. I think he started it in desperation when his royalty checks were not quite enough to keep him in the cheetos. There is a gratuitous paypal link to donate in order to keep the serialization going, but I guess no one was interested. I actually love Scott Lynch, minus that second book I think we can all just forget about.
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Aug 8, 2011 19:54
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BananaNutkins posted:Maybe we can get Rothfuss to read this thread and his confidence will plunge, his psyche will shatter into a million pieces a la Scott Lynch, and we will never get to read book three, also like Scott Lynch. So you like Scott Lynch's first book?  Didn't realize the guy was so bad, especially the whole 'named after a FF character' bit as I've never played any of the FF games. I now kind of want to seen Rothfuss and Lynch to have a western-style LARP showdown on a main street, with the two of them making would-be fighting moves and yelling out, "FIREBALL!"
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Aug 8, 2011 19:59
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BananaNutkins posted:Maybe we can get Rothfuss to read this thread and his confidence will plunge, his psyche will shatter into a million pieces a la Scott Lynch, and we will never get to read book three, also like Scott Lynch. To be fair, the Sin tower or whatever at the beginning of the second book was awesome. Basically everything not involving pirates was amazing. How could you not love the chairs?
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Aug 8, 2011 20:08
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BananaNutkins posted:Maybe we can get Rothfuss to read this thread and his confidence will plunge, his psyche will shatter into a million pieces a la Scott Lynch, and we will never get to read book three, also like Scott Lynch. Scott Lynch's characters are deeply flawed, compelling and loving awesome. Rothfuss's character is a goon who gets elf-loving.  (seriously, Scott Lynch's writing is an entire cut above Rothfuss in every measurable way. What's the Final Fantasy link though?)
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Aug 8, 2011 20:29
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BananaNutkins posted:Maybe we can get Rothfuss to read this thread and his confidence will plunge, his psyche will shatter into a million pieces a la Scott Lynch, and we will never get to read book three, also like Scott Lynch. Don't forget the WoW addiction and divorce and crippling depression. Also, I enjoyed the pirates in RSURS. So there.
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Aug 8, 2011 20:29
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I really like Rothfuss' writing style and I also appreciate his approach to magic in his series. Everything else is pretty bland and underdeveloped.
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Aug 8, 2011 20:33
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Is there a Scott Lynch thread anywhere? (Maybe even in the PYF Internet Trainwreck thread?) I feel compelled to find out more...
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Aug 8, 2011 21:12
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The Supreme Court posted:Scott Lynch's characters are deeply flawed, compelling and loving awesome. I read it on his website, actually, so at least he is unashamed. Locke, the protagonist of his books is a master thief who is named after Locke, the protagonist of Final Fantasy 6. In Lynch's defense, his Locke is way cooler than video game Locke. In my opinion, he should remove that little bit from his FAQ, because while it might clear up the similarities in name and profession of two fictional characters, it also is an extraordinarily embarrassing confession that harms the reputation of a real life man boy.
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Aug 8, 2011 21:15
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Above Our Own posted:I really like Rothfuss' writing style and I also appreciate his approach to magic in his series. Everything else is pretty bland and underdeveloped. I mean, as soon as they all started flapping their gobs about Bondsmagi I honestly thought I had mashed the "skip several chapters" button on my Kindle or something.
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Aug 8, 2011 22:14
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Evfedu posted:The magic in book one is what stopped me dead wrt reading book two. "Here is an incredi-low magic alternate venice and here's a sorceror who can literally stop time and control people's minds and is basically a God oh poo poo I've written myself into a corner here gently caress."
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Aug 8, 2011 22:27
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gently caress, I am a total prick I'm sorry. First one is defo worth a read anyway.
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Aug 8, 2011 22:46
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Benson Cunningham posted:To be fair, the Sin tower or whatever at the beginning of the second book was awesome. Basically everything not involving pirates was amazing. How could you not love the chairs? I was really annoyed by the chairs. There was so much set up for them that I thought they would be really cool whenever he showed whatever he had been planning, and then I was all (to use a Rothfuss quote) "meh." There's a really interesting article over at Tor.com right now about the maps in The Name of the Wind. I thought it was funny how the writer was really pouring over everything and trying to figure out where Kvothe is in the present day using the map on the sleeve and clues in the book. I really hate maps in fantasy books. I don't know why we have to waste 3 pages for these crappy things and usually when I see them I think, "Oh great, we're going to walking around a lot." Like in the Wheel of Time series, even after people can teleport entire armies around they still end up journeying by foot for chapters at a time. Maps are just one of those cliche things that get included with fantasy books and I couldn't believe anyone would actually sit down and try to make sense of one, especially one drawn for Rothfuss's world, which, lets be honest, is not exactly the strongest in terms of world-building. I have to take a step back and say that I did enjoy the maps in Sanderson's Way of Kings and Abercrombie's the Heroes, and I enjoyed them because they were actually applicable to the things I was reading. For Rothfuss, it really doesn't matter where Imre is located, or the bandit forest, or where the little Inn he's made his home. It's just a pointless details. The structure of the novel is too divergent from the Heroic Journey, and the more it tries to go that route, the more its going to fail. Right now here's what we've got in the King Killer Chronicles--Ninja land, Fairy land, a super-typical kingdom run by nobility roamed by gypsies and chock-full of taverns staffed by lusty bar maids, and a school of witchcraft and wizardry. They each feel like entirely separate parts, not a cohesive whole. I think its a flaw in concept that is too late to be corrected.
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Aug 8, 2011 23:58
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I don't think Locke's goony obsession with a girl and Kvothe's goony obsession with a girl can really be compared. They're two entirely different tones. I distinctly remember Locke idealizing her, but rarely speaking of it and when he did, the mere mention of it caused his friends to call him out on how she nearly ruined/killed him. Whereas Kvothe goes on about how her cheeks are like apples and her love is the summer storm and that's just how it is and if you don't think so then you are ugly and dumb like Ambrose. People actually challenge Locke and he's very frequently wrong. Besides, Scott Lynch is at least seventy different kinds of awesome.
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Aug 9, 2011 07:50
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anathenema posted:Besides, Scott Lynch is at least seventy different kinds of awesome.
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Aug 9, 2011 21:02
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anathenema posted:
poo poo, I just realized Ambrose is the good guy in these books. He's the only one who tells Kvothe he is full of poo poo.
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Aug 9, 2011 22:49
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Benson Cunningham posted:poo poo, I just realized Ambrose is the good guy in these books. He's the only one who tells Kvothe he is full of poo poo.
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Aug 10, 2011 02:08
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WeWereSchizo posted:Elodin does get him to jump off a roof. And get stuck naked on a roof in a storm. And nearly gets him busted for setting Hemme's rooms on fire. Yeah, but everyone just applauds these for the acts of genius that they really are.
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Aug 10, 2011 02:32
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I just finished this book and although it was an enjoyable read, there is a lot of goony wish fulfillment that I don't think I could take for some 600+ pages again. One thing that I found particularly hilarious is how Kvothe is supposed to be the perfect badass at everything hero yet he is a complete "nice guy". Denna is an utterly uninteresting, flighty girl who has dated/hosed/??? half the town and yet for some reason our perfect hero Kvothe is obsessed with her. I've been reading some TWMF spoilers in this thread to try and decide if the book was worth a read but it sounds like an even bigger wish-fulfillment fantasy than the first (and longer at that). It's a shame because even though the author is a huge goon, his prose is great and I didn't skip a single line... as opposed to something like The Dresden files which had me rolling my eyes and furiously skipping whole pages about 2 paragraphs in. I think I might just wait until the 3rd book hits and see how the conclusion plays out before I proceed with the sequel.
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Aug 10, 2011 04:41
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Hi, I'm Patrick Rothfuss and I doesn't afraid of criticism.
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Aug 10, 2011 13:21
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pakman posted:Hi, I'm Patrick Rothfuss and I doesn't afraid of criticism. Pat, how do you respond to critics who claim that Kvothe is simply self assertion and wish fulfillment?
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Aug 10, 2011 18:16
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Benson Cunningham posted:Pat, how do you respond to critics who claim that Kvothe is simply self assertion and wish fulfillment? I don't really read it, so I don't know what those people might be saying but I imagine, in my mind, that they are all literal babies who lack the ability to read, thereby not being able to realise how awesome Kvothe is. Didn't you hear about the part where he was awesome? It was good. Meh.
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Aug 10, 2011 19:07
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Benson Cunningham posted:Pat, how do you respond to critics who claim that Kvothe is simply self assertion and wish fulfillment? Good Writer: The third book will answer that by revealing that Kvothe is trying to control his 'legend' but it turns out he's been scraping by and taking credit for other people to impress Denna. Or something in that vein Bad Writer: I don't concern myself with criticism.
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Aug 11, 2011 00:52
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BananaNutkins posted:I actually love Scott Lynch, minus that second book I think we can all just forget about.
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Aug 11, 2011 17:03
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/\/\/\ Not bad so much as disappointing. The first book is a heist novel, and the second book is a pirate novel that contains a heist or two. It's not nearly as interesting, the characters are more boring, and the main characters are once again forced by the powers that be to work on their behalf, only to be ultimately betrayed, then turn the tables on their idiot captors. That's not a spoiler by the way it's the whole point of the book, and I'm only complaining about it because the villain(s?) isn't/aren't very interesting this time.drkhrs2020 posted:Good Writer: The third book will answer that by revealing that Kvothe is trying to control his 'legend' but it turns out he's been scraping by and taking credit for other people to impress Denna. Or something in that vein The third book will reveal that he's been sneaking in all the creepy poo poo in order to convince everyone around him that he's not really a hero, but it just doesn't work he's too cool for them to believe it Liesmith fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 17:55
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Red Seas Under Red Skies would have been less difficult if they hadn't checked out to go play pirates for half the book.
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Aug 11, 2011 19:33
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I actually liked Red Seas, didn't really mind the pirate poo poo, mostly because it was awesome to see an author who is ok with their characters being really really bad at something. But the Lies is far and away a better story.
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Aug 11, 2011 23:04
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Liesmith posted:The third book will reveal that he's been sneaking in all the creepy poo poo in order to convince everyone around him that he's not really a hero, but it just doesn't work he's too cool for them to believe it I like this theory. Remember that wierd time skip when he went sailing? Kvothe actually spent that time loving faerie elf maidens, killing dozens of pirates with a katana, and saying things that made the entire bar stand up and clap.
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Aug 11, 2011 23:12
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keiran_helcyan posted:I like this theory. Remember that wierd time skip when he went sailing? Kvothe actually spent that time loving faerie elf maidens, killing dozens of pirates with a katana, and saying things that made the entire bar stand up and clap. Then he called the lightning like Tabolin the loving Amazing and killed everyone within a 500 mile radius.
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Aug 11, 2011 23:18
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Above Our Own posted:Just finished Lies, and it was a decent read. Great characters, decent-enough prose. The plot got a little pulpy at times, but wasn't like Harry Potter or anything. Is book two really so bad? I loved both of them, but Red Seas isn't quite as good. Depends on whether you like the thieves becoming pirates (yes), which is a bit too lengthy but still an enjoyable read.
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Aug 12, 2011 15:57
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Well Kvothe didn't hold up so well against those soldiers Bast sent so it's clear the current Kvothe is either embellishing or has just lost a lot of powers. Kvothe does seem to be a bit too good at everything, but at least he runs into his fair share of problems. Told from first person it's not hard to see that the character telling the story might unconsciously make himself look better than he is. The bit with Felurian in this book grated on my nerves a bit, but it was handled better than it could have been. Overall I still like this series a lot, hoping to see the next book out in less than 6 years time.
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Aug 13, 2011 15:44
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Ccs posted:Well Kvothe didn't hold up so well against those soldiers Bast sent so it's clear the current Kvothe is either embellishing or has just lost a lot of powers. He threw that fight on purpose, because the only thing more awesome than being an invincible ninja wizard is being a secret invincible ninja wizard.
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Aug 13, 2011 17:48
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I think that something has been overlooked in the discussion of Wise Man's Fear. And that's that Rothfuss managed to create a generically asian culture that is not simply better than every other culture in every way. The Adem are inherently warlike, have a cultural bias against any form of public music and to top it all off they don't know that sex makes babies, something that even chimpanzees are able to suss out. He even manages to present these facts in a way that makes some sense. I've seen a lot of fantasy books that fail at even simple setting creation, and Rothfuss manages that to a tee.
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Aug 17, 2011 03:19
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I was thinking about this the other day and it seems to me that one of the big problems with Wise Man's Fear is how episodic in nature it is. Everything from ninjaland to Denna chasing to hunting bandits seems like it could just be a separate novelette without any real attachment to the book.
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Aug 17, 2011 04:21
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Lord Turtle posted:I've seen a lot of fantasy books that fail at even simple setting creation, and Rothfuss manages that to a tee. His world is disjointed and nonsensical. World-building is Tolkien, Martin, Erikson. Rothfuss has hogwarts, ninjatown, generic inn, and faerie sexland. And gypsies.
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Aug 17, 2011 04:43
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Lord Turtle posted:I think that something has been overlooked in the discussion of Wise Man's Fear. And that's that Rothfuss managed to create a generically asian culture that is not simply better than every other culture in every way. The Adem are inherently warlike, have a cultural bias against any form of public music and to top it all off they don't know that sex makes babies, something that even chimpanzees are able to suss out. He even manages to present these facts in a way that makes some sense. Rothfuss is terrible at setting creation. Literally nothing is connected to anything.
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Aug 17, 2011 05:11
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