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I like how portugal almost got it's exact modern borders, but Castille got the last province. Great map, here's hoping that Gascony unites France.
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Aug 20, 2011 01:44
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Haha. Why? Is it so worthless to take? Guessing it isn't going to come up much for us now but you know. You see this a lot with Crete. If a Duke gets control of both provinces he'll often break away from Byzantium or whoever and stay independent for quite a while because nobody can be assed to go kick him around. But since Iceland is pretty much the most remote place on earth in CK terms, nobody even tries. If the Republic of Iceland takes over the whole thing they'll usually just sit there for the rest of the game doing nothing.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:11
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I also think that the AI might have the same difficulty actually targeting Iceland as the player. Considering that it's only marginally on the map, it's literally difficult to click on Iceland, particularly if there's an ongoing Crusade. Also, it's expensive as hell to ship troops to Iceland even from the Faeroe Islands, let alone from somewhere in mainland Europe.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:16
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Wiz, once you make the mod for the EU3 scenario, would it be possible to allow distribution of it? I for one would love to play that kind of scenario, as the vanilla start gets rather old. Having no Blue Blob, a released Wales, no massive Ottomans, etc would be awesome.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:21
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I'm thinking that the logical step for the result of the different Mongols doing what they did is to have the strong Golden Horde, as per EU3, and maybe have a more successful NORTHERN branch of Mongol territories, but since the Il-Khanate basically collapsed and reverted to a strong Persia, maybe it makes sense to have Persia go even further East than in reality----or possibly another power rose up, something in the North Western part of India, where Pakistan sits modern day. That could be interesting. A strong Indian presence instead of a strong Chinese presence could be very fun to play with. Otherwise.... could we get a religious map? Any additional info that'd help us help you. What countries have a dramatically ahistorical ruler? How about Culture? Are there any countries that have a much more dramatically different dominant culture? I like the idea someone had of the backbiting, religiously tolerant Spain. Less about crusades and counter crusades, more about one-upsmanship and nationalism. Maybe instead of trying to unite Spain, they've fallen into a pattern of simply wanting more prestige than one another. Incidentally, the religious tolerance in Spain and the desire to differentiate themselves from one another might make Spain an interesting place for Reformation events. It's obvious that Spain is much less Crazy For Catholicism in this universe--maybe the increased tolerance of Islam leads to a hybrid religion, or a different take on Islam.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:22
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Patter Song posted:I also think that the AI might have the same difficulty actually targeting Iceland as the player. Considering that it's only marginally on the map, it's literally difficult to click on Iceland, particularly if there's an ongoing Crusade. Also, it's expensive as hell to ship troops to Iceland even from the Faeroe Islands, let alone from somewhere in mainland Europe. The AI doesn't have any problems with the user interface, so I think it's just a issue of range and lack of value.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:24
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Patter Song posted:it's literally difficult to click on Iceland
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Aug 20, 2011 02:29
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Ah, that's informative, thanks. So how about making it a bit more of a player? If we're going for Alternate history, why not make Vinland into reality? Give the native americans vikings to fight. So Iceland, Greenland and some provinces in Canada? How is it different in EU3? Does it increase in usefullness?
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Aug 20, 2011 02:41
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What's the ethnic composition of Armenia look like?
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Aug 20, 2011 02:45
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Ah, that's informative, thanks. Wiz has already had a Vinland in one of his LPs, actually. They got knocked around a lot by Muslim Mexico.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:47
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Ah, that's informative, thanks. It's useful in the sense that it's the furthest-west provinces you can get without Quest for the New World and that an early-game cored Iceland will put you in great position to colonize the eastern coastline of North America. Iceland doesn't really have the economic base to be very effective at colonizing itself, though. Colonizing can be really taxing on a poor country's economy in EU3 (hell, it's taxing on a rich country if you're going for settling a lot of new land at once). Iceland in our game will either be gobbled up early by Scotland or England or ignored.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:48
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Deceitful Penguin posted:How is it different in EU3? Does it increase in usefullness? Not... really. The major change is that EU3 encompasses the entire world, so Iceland is no longer quite so remote. Or remote at all.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:48
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BlackJosh posted:Wiz has already had a Vinland in one of his LPs, actually. They got knocked around a lot by Muslim Mexico.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:51
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Conskill posted:Not... really. The major change is that EU3 encompasses the entire world, so Iceland is no longer quite so remote. Or remote at all.
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Aug 20, 2011 02:58
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frankenfreak posted:Norway and England actually like to take it for some reason. It's also a useful stop on the northern route to America, so it's actually useful. It starts under Norway's Control. And England has a wierd habit of taking completely arbitrary Scandinavian provinces.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:04
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BlackJosh posted:Wiz has already had a Vinland in one of his LPs, actually. They got knocked around a lot by Muslim Mexico. What? Haha, that's beautiful, which LP was this? The Hohenzollern one? That thing was so huge, I barely absorbed half of it. But as it's been already done, let that be that. More on topic though, what will the countries to the East of us be like? I have to admit to a fair degree of ignorance to the history of the area, but I for one would much rather try and conquer eastwards or southwards rather than go yet again towards Europe. Maybe try and help Islam reach Indonesia? Or even Australia?
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Aug 20, 2011 03:05
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If I recall my history correctly, the Gauls and other peoples of France were Celtic, too. Since the Franco-German region is filled with all these small nations, maybe a resurgent Ireland could set out to bring all Celtic lands, continental included, under their banner. Conquering all that land might be absurd, but perhaps Ireland could dominate through influence instead. Okay, we're several centuries too early for modern nationalism, but it could lead to an interesting scenario. I'd also like to make a few requests for East Asia. First, a divided China (if one of the pieces is ruled by Mongols, that would be pretty awesome). Second, a stronger Korea. Maybe without a unified China dominating the region, they could expand beyond the peninsula? And lastly, I'd like to see Japan going a very different route from OTL. How about the ikko ikki (mobs of angry peasants inspired by populist Buddhist teachings) actually manage to set up their own regime? Alternatively, I'd love to see a Japan under an Oda shogunate that stays open to the West and builds strong economic and cultural ties with the rest of Asia and the West (when they make their way over there).
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Aug 20, 2011 03:08
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I'd like to see an independent Cornwall to give England a little more to do before it can go crazy colonizing, especially given how it appears to only have Portugal and maybe Castille as dead set competitors. I'm not a big fan of extending the HRE to encompass the German states, the French states and the low country states though, because of three reasons. Firstly, most of the continent would be HRE, so all conflict there would be in-HRE. Secondly, what if the thing manages to unify? There'd be no real European competition for the lategame or Victoria. Thirdly, I feel like it might gently caress up the colonizing. Historically none of the big colonizers were in the HRE after all and I think putting the French coastal and Flemish/Dutch coastal countries in the HRE might drive their attention towards the continent rather than overseas. If only we could have a wholly seperate mechanics for the French states that is HRE like but with a lot of differences instead  Also, why did you make Cherson independent? It'd seem like a cool final retreat for the Byzantians. Maybe they could fulfill a kind of Knights of St. John type piracy role or something? How about instead of a Swedish Finland, you make Finland a Swedish vassal state? That way they can still do their historical "we will fight until the last Fin" thing, but they'll be less blobby to start off. Is Cyrenaica Muslim or Christian? Or both? I really love the way the Balkans came out, specifically the way Croatia is basically visible as a part of Hungary. Doing something with that would be cool. Lastly, I'm putting my money on Salzburg for first OPM to be annxed, though Nantes seems like a good runner up.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:10
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Viola the Mad posted:If I recall my history correctly, the Gauls and other peoples of France were Celtic, too. Since the Franco-German region is filled with all these small nations, maybe a resurgent Ireland could set out to bring all Celtic lands, continental included, under their banner. Conquering all that land might be absurd, but perhaps Ireland could dominate through influence instead. Okay, we're several centuries too early for modern nationalism, but it could lead to an interesting scenario. Considering Wales and Scotland were never really beaten around like they were in our time line, this idea isn't that strange to have. Wales and Scotland particularly would probably still have some nationalist resentment of what they see as Norman invaders. I'd say that any of the three Celtic countries (Wales, Scotland, Ireland) could have the above type of mission. I'd also say put Scottish back in the Gaelic culture group, and put Norman in the English culture group to better reflect the cultural ties. edit: I also wonder about the potential for Thessalonica and Nicea to have a mission to reclaim Constantinople and revive the (Orthodox) Empire. This would help put them in rivalry with Italy, as Italy will probably annex the Latin Empire within a few years time anyway. Griffen fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 03:12
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Wiz doesn't have the HRE-unifying decision available in his games because it's dumb.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:16
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Deceitful Penguin posted:More on topic though, what will the countries to the East of us be like? I have to admit to a fair degree of ignorance to the history of the area, but I for one would much rather try and conquer eastwards or southwards rather than go yet again towards Europe. Well, the big question regarding our immediate neighborhood is whether Timur the Lame (Tamerlane) existed in our alt-history or not. Since it's 1400 and Timur's not in sight, it'd be kind of silly to have him appear right at the end of his life, so I'm going to assume that this is a no-Tamerlane alt-history. (By 1400 IRL he'd already conquered Persia, sent us Azeris into Egyptian Exile, and was fighting the Turks for control of Anatolia). India is divided between strong Islamic states that rule over unhappy Hindu populations (Delhi Sultanate being the most notable) and Hindu Rajahs rallying to oppose them (Rajputana and Vijayanagar being the most prominent). China will depend on how successful Wiz decides the Mongols are. By this time IRL the Yuan Dynasty (Mongols) had pretty much thoroughly been overthrown by the Ming. The East Indies have already had Islam brought to them (via Sufi missionaries, explaining the traditionally laid-back attitude of Islam in that region). However, the island of Java, among others, still remains Hindu.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:24
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Edit: Didn't realize Pattersong was talking about alt-history, not actual history.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:32
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Orange Devil posted:Also, why did you make Cherson independent? It'd seem like a cool final retreat for the Byzantians. Maybe they could fulfill a kind of Knights of St. John type piracy role or something? I think that if there is going to be a "(Re-)Form Byzantium" decision, Cherson needs to be able to have access to that decision, due to its history as being a Byzantine claimant-state...though I highly doubt the AI would succeed in such a task.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:34
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Patter Song posted:Well, the big question regarding our immediate neighborhood is whether Timur the Lame (Tamerlane) existed in our alt-history or not. Since it's 1400 and Timur's not in sight, it'd be kind of silly to have him appear right at the end of his life, so I'm going to assume that this is a no-Tamerlane alt-history. (By 1400 IRL he'd already conquered Persia, sent us Azeris into Egyptian Exile, and was fighting the Turks for control of Anatolia).
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Aug 20, 2011 03:41
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theblastizard posted:I think it would be funny if Timur was menacing China instead of Turkey. frankenfreak fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 03:43
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theblastizard posted:I think it would be funny if Timur was menacing China instead of Turkey. YES. Timur's last great ambition was to invade Ming China. Let's make it a reality.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:47
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Xerophyte posted:The Olmec Empire, 3000 years of arts, culture and only the occasional blood sacrifice, suddenly pressured by expansionist northern upstarts. Oh, and the Olmec flag should have an enormous helmeted head.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:48
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Talas posted:And let them build a navy, maybe the Incans too to be fair. I strongly believe that the Incas should be a Despotic Monarchy rather than a tribe. You can leave the rest of the Americans with Tribal government, but I think the Incas deserve a chance with a reasonable form of government. Mali and Ethiopia, too.
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Aug 20, 2011 03:49
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Unlike in real life where the Dutch kinda got pushed around by France and Austria a lot, since there is no France and nearest major kingdoms are either England or Burgundy, I think the Dutch (especially considering Mega-Brabrant and Crusading Frisia)should be more militaristic rather than financial in this game. Like maybe a Dutch version of Prussia should form if either of them manage to unite the Netherlands (or whatever a country like that would be called in this timeline though honestly a fascist country called The Netherlands seems to work). Maybe have it be a contender for the HRE title as well. Like have Brabant and Frisia have cores on each other and the other Dutch states. They could go to war with each other over who controls the Netherland while the Emperor tries to break it up. If the Emperor fails and one of them wins, they form the Netherlands. Suddenly things get a bit more interesting in Western Europe when you have a 3 way power struggle over all those French states between the Netherlands, Gascony, and Burgundy. Maybe even have the Netherlands antagonize England over Normandy (not really a cultural thing so much as a "Hey you're next to me and I'm trying to conquer France" kind of way if it got that far). However, unlike Prussia, make them Catholic. Andalusia looks like it's going to be this games token "money-making, open religion, probably legalise hashish" country, then there should always be at least one goose-stepping, police state somewhere in Europe. Or two if you count Italy. Stretch Marx fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 20, 2011 |
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Aug 20, 2011 03:51
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Questions I'm Wondering About: What is the state of the Oriental Orthodox church? How far and to which countries in East and South East Asia has Islam spread to?
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Aug 20, 2011 03:57
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Wildstrike posted:Questions I'm Wondering about : As for the Oriental Orthodox Church, it's not in EU3 (lumped together with Eastern Orthodoxy just like every other Eastern Christian faith, including the Coptics, are), but I suppose Armenia could have an Oriental Orthodox minority. As for Islam in Southeast Asia, it depends almost entirely on what changes Wiz has made, but in vanilla at least there are Muslims in Malacca (southern half of the Malay Peninsula) as well as the provinces north of them owned by Buddhist Ayahutta (provinces that can secede and become Pattani), as well as the Aceh Sultanate (owns Sumatra), the Brunei Sultanate (owns Borneo, probably the best Southeast Asia country to play as), and Makassar (owns a tiny bit of Sulawesi).
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Aug 20, 2011 04:02
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Patter Song posted:As for the Oriental Orthodox Church, it's not in EU3 (lumped together with Eastern Orthodoxy just like every other Eastern Christian faith, including the Coptics, are), but I suppose Armenia could have an Oriental Orthodox minority. And the Sultanate of Sulu. And the religion in the unsettled provinces of the southern Philippines are Muslim as well until someone colonizes them.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:04
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Proposition Joe posted:And the Sultanate of Sulu. I always forget Sulu.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:06
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Patter Song posted:I always forget Sulu. It's not available in the 1399 start so most people probably don't know it exists.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:10
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Ilanin posted:The Islamic world is much less unified The European Age of Discovery was largely driven by the Ottomans' blockade of the Middle East; considering the fractured nature of the Muslim world and a powerful Italy, there may be less of an impulse to go out exploring for everyone. In addition, if Italy takes Rome, what happens to Catholicism? If it happens before the Protestant Reformation, and there's not an internationally recognized successor, you might end up with a radically decentralized system of churches, throwing everything after 1450 completely out the window, up to and including one of the major sources of colonists in the Americas.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:23
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Cardinal Ximenez posted:The European Age of Discovery was largely driven by the Ottomans' blockade of the Middle East; considering the fractured nature of the Muslim world and a powerful Italy, there may be less of an impulse to go out exploring for everyone. If the pope is forced out of Rome he relocates to a Catholic Theocracy It is possible for one to conquer the pope an then become the pope.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:28
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Cardinal Ximenez posted:In addition, if Italy takes Rome, what happens to Catholicism? If it happens before the Protestant Reformation, and there's not an internationally recognized successor, you might end up with a radically decentralized system of churches, throwing everything after 1450 completely out the window, up to and including one of the major sources of colonists in the Americas. Nah, Pope just moves to Avignon.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:28
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Wiz posted:Hmm, good question. Not sure it really makes sense for them to want to be Byzantium - they're the Armenian Empire. Now, Armenians submitting meekly and peacefully to some Greek guy in Constantinople just because he's calling himself the Roman Emperor, that's another matter.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:28
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I can think of a reason Armenia would want to be Byzantium. It's their Cultural Union tag.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:46
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Outside the mechanics of the game, though, the conquest of Rome could do a lot to discredit the legitimacy of the papacy.
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Aug 20, 2011 04:50
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