Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Augster posted:

Today's mah birfday so I think I'll see about ordering a new whistle. :toot:

If your budget is Under $15, get any of the whistles I mention above. If your budget is "Under $40", get a Freeman. Although Mrady likes the Susato in that price range, I find the Susato to be too "clean" sounding, too smooth. Either of those, just depends whether you want a slightly grittier, more traditionally Irish sound (Freeman) or a smoother, rounder clean sound (Susato).



Unless you have a very specific reason to get a different key, get Key of D since that's what 95% of online tutorials are pitched at.


quote:

I also need help identifying some sort of reed flute that my grandfather gave me a long time ago; I'll post pics and stuff later today.

Ooh, a mystery. That should be fun. I'm gonna go ahead and guess chirimia preemptively, just for kicks.

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Aug 7, 2011

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Augster
Aug 5, 2011

Welp, here it is:



7 holes, plus thumb-hole on the other side.
Very airy sound.
The end is closed off, so the first 6 holes+thumb hole covered is a low note, but cover all of them and it's a high note.
I haven't been able to pull off anything more then Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, but my sister picked it up and straight away played Ye Banks and Braes O Bonnie Doon.
I've had this thing for like 14 or 15 years, I think grandad said it was from Turkey but it doesn't match anything I've searched. It could be just some touristy thing.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Augster posted:

Welp, here it is:


Ah, that was my other guess: not actually a reedpipe. What you have there is, broadly speaking, an "fipple flute" or "flagolet". These are pretty generically found simply everywhere, so open guesses as to the story behind yours.

quote:

I bought the student Hohner. I should have what I need already to get going at a basic level as I can generally pick stuff up by ear, but will take any advice you have.

Nah, I don't have anything more than the several cool YouTube tutorials tell you. It appears doing short triads on the upbeat is a big part of the sound, so in your shoes I'd probably either puzzle out or else google online the chord progressions for some popular roots-reggae songs, and just practice playing the chord sharply on the upbeat, then start working in some solos. Do you have some guitarist or whatever friends who can hold down the rhythm part and you can accompany?


Speaking of rhythm, I wanted to get another drum in. I emphasise that I don't actually play this, but just did the basic reading up on the subject to figure out the word on the street. I have been meaning to get a set for a while though, as these are one of the more distinctive, yet also affordable and portable, hand drums. Standard caveats apply: don't buy no-names off eBay, or in general any brand that you don't see plentiful good things said about online. Also, don't buy "mini" versions of drums just because they're cute or cheaper; a 5" version of a 10" drum is going to sound nothing like the larger one, so you're going to just be disappointed. Without further ado:

Bongos



I'm a little sketchy on this history of these, but these are pretty clearly of African origin and wound up in Cuba. Europe was never much for hand-played drums for most of recorded history, whereas West Africa was huge into them. Double drums are less common; I don't think there's any relation, but Europe had a double stick-drum called the naker, and closer to our target Morocco is the double tbilat. But in whatever case by the 1800s double hand-drums of two different sizes/tones were popular with Afro-Cubans.

Fast forward to the early 20th century, as Latin music mixes with American jazz, bringing the bongos to the US and allowing them to be clumsily used by the filthy proto-hipsters known as beatniks. Whiteboy flailing aside, the fundamental of the bongos is a stroke called the martillo so if you get a set and want to do more than just smack on them awkwardly, get onto YouTube and watch some martillo tutorials.



So far as what to buy, the gist I get is that Meinl and Pearl are two reliable brands, and have some very affordable models well under $80. Bongomania is a little out of date, but gives some good general info on what to get, and more importantly what not to get. The guys there also have a major grudge against LP as a soulless corporation that doesn't understand musicians, so interesting opinion to read there.

Most of these bongos have skin heads (still looking to see if there's an affordable, recommended synth-head option), but for folks wanting zero maintenance and also a neat take on the instrument, a few places make bongo cajons. The cajon is just a wooden box you drum on, and by dividing into two uneven halves, they've made bongo versions. Some also add a snare to make a bongo-snare-cajon. Meinl makes both the basic boxes, snare boxes, as well as a pricier ($120ish) wooden version with two distinct heads and a outboard-facing resonator:



- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNQgO75frw8 For the hardcore, an 8-minute bongo solo
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MHiPrVfdgM As a pop-culture reference, an example from The Munsters of the beatnik bongo cliche
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhVG8DNCvhA Afro-Cuban jazz with piano and bongo
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USmXvuQWLz0 Demo of the Meinl bongo cajon


As an aside, it's also striking how many scores of clips there are on YouTube of girls' racks being played as bongos.

bezel
Oct 19, 2009

chomp chomp chomp

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

So far as what to buy, the gist I get is that Meinl and Pearl are two reliable brands, and have some very affordable models well under $80.

Meinl is an excellent source for all your world percussion needs. My experience with Pearl is limited to regular drum kits but "reliable" seems like a good description of their stuff. Chances are excellent you'd be happy with a purchase from either brand.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

bezel posted:

Meinl is an excellent source for all your world percussion needs. My experience with Pearl is limited to regular drum kits but "reliable" seems like a good description of their stuff. Chances are excellent you'd be happy with a purchase from either brand.

Are you a percussionist? We could really use one around here to cover a few of those instruments. Two quick questions: do you know of any decent tunable synth-head bongos, or are pretty much all the decent ones skin head?

I notice that a few decent companies (Meinl, Remo) also make tack-head pre-tuned snyth-head bongos for as low as $25, in roughly appropriate sizes. Are those at all a decent option for folks that just want something to mess around with?

bezel
Oct 19, 2009

chomp chomp chomp
Strings and keys mostly, I'm afraid. I think Remo makes decent tunable synthetics but not at an entry-level price.

I haven't seen the drums pictured above in person so I can't say how they feel or sound, but drat they are ugly to look at. I'd prefer to put down $60-100 for something like this. I know it's a pretty significant jump in price, which might not sit well with everyone, though I think the extra features and quality would more than make up for it.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

TapTheForwardAssist posted:


Will reply on the Hayden concertina and the melodica in a day or so, but have to get to bed since been up drinking with bagpipe players, and have a 0930 class Sunday morning on medieval bagpipe polyphony. If anyone here is interested in any kind of unusual bagpipe (anything other than Great Highland), these national gatherings (of which there are several) are loving awesome, so feel free to PM me for details.


Please dont forget me :)

Planet X
Dec 10, 2003

GOOD MORNING
My melodica came in the mail today :350:

Its fun, surprisingly loud. The cat doesn't like it, but surprisingly tolerates the banjo and directionless stratocaster noodling.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres
Okay, back from the Piper's Gathering in Vermont, having learned even more things about bagpipes. I'll aim to have a post on Lowland and Border pipes in the next few days.


Chin Strap posted:

Trip report on my Hayden Duet Concertina (the Elise from Concertina Connection). I've had it for about 3 weeks now, and it has been a lot of fun. The first big realization for me was figuring out the logic of the key placement. At first when I got it, the placements of the accidentals seemed arbitrary and random (why is the f# on a lower row than the f?). But when I figured out that it is all designed so that the same pattern gives the same type of chord everywhere on the button set, it made sense. The D major scale is just as simple as shifting the C major fingering over one button. The finger shape that gives you a C major chord is the same for D, F, G, A, and B-flat major. It is pretty genius when you realize it.

This is what is called an isomorphic keyboard, and pretty rare on acoustic instruments. You've already worked out its major advantages. Transposing is really, really easy on a Hayden.

quote:

The other main issue I had was it kept feeling hard to hold on to even at the smallest hand strap setting. Last night I cut some holes in the hand straps even farther down, and now it feels a lot more secure and easier to play.

I had this exact same issue, and was going to punch more holes, but on reading more on it turns out that this is (semi) intentional and that you're supposed to "cup" your hands to take up the slack, and de-cup when you need to reach further and need more slack. That's not the obligatory way to play, and there's no harm in punching extra holes if you want a tighter strap, but it's not just that you have little girly hands, people just tend to take up the slack manually.

quote:

When playing, should I be keeping the right side still and moving the left side? Or moving the right side and keeping the left side still? Pulling and pushing both sides together feels wrong.

I think I usually hold right still (resting it on my thigh if sitting) since I do my more complicated fingering there, but I don't quite know what's standard. I do know that for the huge 'boxes (bandoneon and Chemnitzer) they put each end on the leg, and spread and close their legs as they play. But whatever works.


quote:

Anyway, A++ really really enjoying it, and since my music theory and piano chops are already decent, it hasn't been too hard a switch so far. Sometimes I think I maybe should have gotten a bisonoric concertina just because it is so different from what I'm used to, but the Duet fingering gives me the ability to do accompaniment and melody together better. It is sort of a decent tradeoff between a concertina and accordion.

If you get a chance to mess with a decent bisonoric instrument, they are quite different and interesting. Despite being mechanically almost identical, Anglo, English, and Duet play extremely differently due to their fingering systems. Anglos are really easy to make chords and generally sound good on, and on a 3-row Anglo you can do most of the things you can on a Duet or English by switching rows to find the right pitch/direction, but overall each lends itself to a different style.

The Duet is, as you note, a pretty fair tradeoff between concertina and a larger accordion. I've messed with a variety of systems, and I'm happiest sticking with Duet. I'm actually planning to sell both my CBA bandoneon and my bisonoric Chemniter, the former because CBA just isn't intuitive for me and people keep PMing me wanting to buy it on another forum, and the Chemnitzer because it's a beautifully arcane system, but since I'm not desperately dedicated to it I just don't get around to putting in the time to learn its wacky weirdness.

Chemnitzers are pretty cool though, if anyone needs a good but inexpensive one you can PM me. Again, Sixteen Horsepower made it work for them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu_d_tyroMI




quote:

My melodica came in the mail today :350:

While those are probably fine in sequence, you don't want to do the two simultaneously, as that stickiness simply can't be good for your reeds. If you have to blow green smoke through an instrument, might I suggest a tinwhistle (easy to clean) or a cheap harmonica that you're not attached to?

Though if anyone does have any feedback as to which instruments they've tried go best with marihuana, that could be interesting feedback. I'm still betting dulcimer must be one of the best string options.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I had this exact same issue, and was going to punch more holes, but on reading more on it turns out that this is (semi) intentional and that you're supposed to "cup" your hands to take up the slack, and de-cup when you need to reach further and need more slack. That's not the obligatory way to play, and there's no harm in punching extra holes if you want a tighter strap, but it's not just that you have little girly hands, people just tend to take up the slack manually.

Yeah I started to realize this myself. The tighter straps make it really hard to get to both the lowest and highest rows at the same time. I moved back to the smallest premade hole and am learning how to take up the slack. My main practice right now is learning how to hit jumps between rows without overshooting.

TurdBurgles
Sep 17, 2007

I AM WHITE AND PLAY NA FLUTE ON TRIBAL LANDS WITH NO GUILT.
We ended up going to an art and wine festival and the guy from highspiritflutes was there. He was a super chill hippie who let me play on all his flutes for about 30 min. I finally got to try out some drones as well as a big rear end bass flute that took all of my lungs to get going. The wifey liked the way the E sounded the most so that will probably be the next purchase.

The flutes were of varying materials like cedar and walnut with a lot of extra work done to make them pretty like adding turquoise inlay and leather finger rests as well as massive totems. Not really my style but some may like it. Overall the stuff was pretty expensive but I felt indebted to the guy so I picked up their intro book and a bag for the flute for $20. They also have a ton of videos online for others who are interested.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres
This ties into both the dobro/Hawaiian posts we had back in the first few pages, as well as the more recent diddley-bow posts. Do note that this instrument, though quite uncommon these days, was during the early days of electric guitar about as common an electric as standard 6-strings are today.

Lap steel guitar



The electric lap steel guitar is another variant on the old "jack up a guitar's action and play it with the neck cut off a glass bottle". That acoustic slide-guitar sound had caught on in Hawaii, in enough time to hit the mainstream when Hawaiian culture in general became a big fad in 1920s Mainland America. Enough folks were playing slide guitars in the lap that some of the earliest electric guitars of the 1930s were made in that format, though possibly the fact that such instruments were easier to produce might have factored in.

I'm mostly covering the basic lap steel here, which is generally six-string. Larger versions show up, but if you get much larger you start getting into the "pedal steel guitar" which are good-sized, have metal legs going down to the floor, and a series of pedals that can be used to change the tuning on the fly. I was trying to figure out where they got that odd idea from, and all I can come up with is that classical harps have a similar system of pedals that can change the pitches of various strings to re-tune the whole instrument with just a foot movement.



One great thing is that even with a partial re-awakening of the instrument, there are just so drat many of these out there that prices are pretty low even on vintage gear. Back in the 1990s I recall older folks at my dad's church talking about how they used to play the "Hawaiian guitar" back in the day; this was a totally popular and trendy instrument for some time, something folks just picked up at a local shop and learned from sheet music or played in local garage bands.

So far as buying one, there are a scattering of Asian-made cheapies online for $100ish; Galveston had a good rep for the price, and I think Rogue makes the same model for about the same quality now. That said, there are plenty of vintage ones floating around, and often at the same $100ish mark, so by watching eBay you can find some pretty solid deals on less-famous/rare brands of lap-steel.

There's a good amount of tutorials both online and in print, so I won't insult your google skills. Do note that http://steelguitarforum.com/ is out there, and as always I strongly recommend that anyone looking to take up a weird instrument get in touch with its community of players to get the right advice, particularly as most of the less-common instruments are thrilled to have new folks and will hook you up.



- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tn-3uHJvJg&feature=related Nice basic clip of an amateur playing some old Hank Williams (I) tunes
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdTa9MzgF6s Some old-school Hawaiian style
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vz_1lC51z0 It takes a pedal steel to do all the instant re-tuning, but yes, you can play Bach on these

BigHustle
Oct 19, 2005

Fast and Bulbous
Update on the washboard situation:

The one I got at the feed store was pretty crappy once I got down to trying to play it. The metal corrugation is too defined and the thimbles don't easily run up and down the surface without getting hung up so I decided to do a little upgrading.

In the David Holt video I posted earlier, he mentioned that the National Washboard Company's Zinc King 703 Lingerie pail sized board. Since those are pretty hard to come by, I ended up going with its also hard to find bigger brother, the National Washboard Co. Zinc King Top Notch 701.



Following David Holt's example, I also snagged a few accessories to go along with it. A desk style call bell and a tin cup will soon be attached along with the one thing every song needs, MORE COWBELL.



I picked these up for a good price from Scott Miller who runs Bone Dry Musical Instrument Co. based here in St. Louis, MO. The guy has been playing the bones forever and won the 2005 World Bones Championship. His site sells washboards, supplies, and rhythm bones in all shapes and sizes, along with uncut bones he gets from a rancher in the Southwest in case you want to craft your own. I stopped by his place to pick up my order and we ended up sitting around bullshitting about music and such for about two hours. The dude is awesome. I also picked up a set of Kuaiban clappers. More info on those will be in my next (possibly double) post.

BigHustle
Oct 19, 2005

Fast and Bulbous
I have discovered the Wu-Tang secret... Rap actually originated in ancient China. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present for your approval, KUAI BAN.



The Wikipedia article on Kuai Ban sucks, so here's a blog entry from Asian Rap Worldwide instead.

quote:

Kuai Ban is a form of Chinese rap that was developed in China during the 1930s and 40s. Kuai Ban literally means 'fast board' which refers to the bamboo clappers that the performers use in their performance. In Kuai Ban, the performer uses the bamboo clappers as a beat and then simultaneously recites a rhythmic poem according to the beat of the bamboo clappers. There's also a lot of theatrics involved in Kuai Ban performances.

Kuai Ban (pronounced Kwai-bahr) is a form of shuochang (translation: 'speak and sing') that consists of a singer singing a story in a specific rhyming pattern accompanied by handheld percussion instruments. The story-singing tradition is as old as China itself, but was brought into the modern art form it is now in the 1940's by a man named Li Runjie. Here's a blurb from the Kuai Ban page at Bone Dry Musical Instrument Co.

quote:

The art form was developed by Li Runjie during the midst of World War II. An old friend of the Li family (and a virtouso kuai ban performer himself) is Liang Houmin. He explains that "Mr. Li was born into a poor farmer's family. He was apprenticed in Tianjin while still a youngster. By the time he reached 18, he was indentured by Japanese occupation forces to work in a coalmine as a miner. But he fled from the mine and began life as a beggar. No doubt, life then was miserable, yet, right at that time, he learned to play the "Shu Lai Bao", a rhythmic story telling to the accompaniment of the clappers, played by beggars to make a living." Liang Houmin explains that by the 1950s Mr. Li had fully developed the art of kuai ban and become famous.

The traditional style clappers used for Kuai Ban come in two forms: A pair of bamboo clappers or brass clappers. Pictured below are the pair of each that I just bought.


The brass clappers are played in the same clacking style as rhythm bones but also have a technique where they can be played to ring like a bell.
The bamboo clappers are a matched set, with a large two piece set played in one hand and a smaller set of five played in the other hand. To equate them with a drum kit, the larger set acts as the bass drum of the set while the smaller set could be considered the toms.

http://youtu.be/JgW07ywC5Jw - A 10 minute video showing various playing techniques. It's in Chinese so I can't understand a word of it, but the close up shots explain themselves.

http://youtu.be/mHztae9dz0c - This is a guy showing his family from America his Kuai Ban technique when they visited him in 2008. Dude has some serious chops.
http://youtu.be/q5VHGuV4tmM - Here is Zhang Zhi Kuan performing a piece titled 'The Drunk'
http://youtu.be/FWwLAK1CCsg - Zhang Zhi Kwan performing 'Wu Song Fights a Tiger'. Part 1 of a 2 part upload. The second part is linked on the video page.

Listening to the rhythm and delivery of some of these guys makes me wonder if Brandon DiCamillio listened to them before his :nws:Chinese Rap:nws: from the CKY vid.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres
I did not know there was Ancient Chinese Rap; I have now learned yet another amazing thing from this thread.

Two quick heads-up: I'm going to re-post the banner ad to snag more noobs, so if anyone has a suggestion as to what musical instruments should be mentioned by ad in the name, and which one or two instruments should be shown on the banner (previous version had a close-up of a concert zither), that'd be cool. I'm tentatively thinking some string instrument, and some electronic instrument.

Speaking of electronic instruments, I have a stack of like 40 Stylophones sitting in my room that I got for dirt-cheap. Give me a day or so to figure out shipping, and I'll be looking to list them on SA Mart for (tentatively) $9 shipped anywhere in the US.

MrGreenShirt
Mar 14, 2005

Hell of a book. It's about bunnies!

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Speaking of electronic instruments, I have a stack of like 40 Stylophones sitting in my room that I got for dirt-cheap. Give me a day or so to figure out shipping, and I'll be looking to list them on SA Mart for (tentatively) $9 shipped anywhere in the US.



Yay! :neckbeard:

BigHustle
Oct 19, 2005

Fast and Bulbous

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I'm going to re-post the banner ad to snag more noobs, so if anyone has a suggestion as to what musical instruments should be mentioned by ad in the name, and which one or two instruments should be shown on the banner (previous version had a close-up of a concert zither), that'd be cool. I'm tentatively thinking some string instrument, and some electronic instrument.

Just based on thread content, I'd put in the NAF or tin whistle since those seem to be the one most folks wandering in choose to start with. If you want to go electronic, I vote for the Theremin. Not just because it's bad-assed, but also because I want to see if anyone other than Paramemetic has any tips since I just picked up a Moog EtherWave Standard for a song and a dance. I hate this loving thread because it keeps making me buy poo poo.

EDIT
Not gonna bump the thread for this, but here's a pic of the aforementioned Moog Etherwave Standard.

BigHustle fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Aug 15, 2011

ChurlishToff
Oct 24, 2010


BRONY SPOTTED
Oh my goodness. The accordion came in the mail and it's fantastic. I've learned Hot cross buns and an israeli folk song and this is amazing

Yiggy
Sep 12, 2004

"Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."
Sometimes I'll stand around with my accordion and play in lots of minor keys and pretend I'm a street performer in Paris.

:allears:

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

ChurlishToff posted:

Oh my goodness. The accordion came in the mail and it's fantastic. I've learned Hot cross buns and an israeli folk song and this is amazing

The toy accordion is really not so much a "toy" as "kinda shoddy small accordion but a heck of a buy for $20". Interestingly enough, you could make an argument that in terms of its crudeness it's actually pretty close to the cheap German squeezeboxes that a bunch of early American folk musicians used; Leadbelly himself used to play the "windjammer" back in his younger days.

To summarise things mentioned before: if you really dig the toy accordion just as it is, but want it more in-tune, more efficient of air, and maybe in a different key for whatever genre you want to play, Irish Dancemaster can outfit it with high-quality reeds for about $90. I just got one in D for playing at Irish sessions. Alternately, you can get a 1, 2, or 3 row button accordion, which will play exactly the same but more range and ability to play more "in between notes" and in different keys. There's also the Anglo accordion, which is a somewhat different package but functions about identically. You can get some good used Hohner button accordions for $300-400, and a good student Anglo can be had around the same price. Read up in advance at Meldeon.net or Concertina Forums to make sure you don't get a lovely brand; for quality cheapies I'd stick mainly to Hohner for button accordions, Concertina Connection for concertinas.



Also, if you have an iPhone, TradLessons offers a whole bunch of squeezebox apps; the closest one to your toy accordion would be the Zydacco app, which simulates a 10-key, 1-row accordion.

Roctor
Aug 23, 2005

The doctor of rock.
Has anybody talked about the mandocello yet? I could be persuaded to write a long rambling self indulgent post....

snugglebunny
Aug 21, 2004
go to hell

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Speaking of electronic instruments, I have a stack of like 40 Stylophones sitting in my room that I got for dirt-cheap. Give me a day or so to figure out shipping, and I'll be looking to list them on SA Mart for (tentatively) $9 shipped anywhere in the US.



Any word on these yet?
I've been waiting anxiously, refreshing since you mentioned it.

desert diver
Mar 30, 2010

Okay, finally got around to writing about my favourite instrument ...

Sanshin (aka Okinawa shamisen)

The main instrument of the Ryukyu Islands/Okinawa. Descended from the Chinese sanxian and ancestor of Japanese shamisen.
The sanshin has three strings (sanshin literally means "three strings") and no frets. Made from wood and, traditionally, snakeskin. Nowadays most amateur-level sanshin use synthetic plastic skin instead. Snakeskin is more expensive, sensitive and difficult/illegal to ship outside of Japan.
Compared to the shamisen, the sanshin is smaller, sounds brighter and is more fun (IMO).

Here are some sanshin videos you can watch
Shredding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwhYJwkKBKY
Amami-style: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVT3tJig5pc
Folk song about a kitten: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG380dpFzLI
more traditional-style folk music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrYKp1ZQXc

Okinawa/The Ryukyu islands have a vibrant music tradition and sanshin is everywhere. Serious court music, folk music, etc. There are also a lot of pop and rock groups that use the sanshin in their music. Kina Shokichi's Champloose are probably the most famous. "Haisai ojisan" is a classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAwi4lfnavs
also Begin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CHf59BcLds&t=1m28s
and Soul Flower Mononoke Summit from mainland Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Vidbm8aLY

One obstacle to learning to play sanshin is the traditional Okinawan notation system, kunkunshi, which is still used by basically all sanshin players, and looks like this:

It's pretty easy to pick up though, or you could just jam on it.

If you are handy you can also make your own sanshin from a can or some other kind of container. Kankara ("empty can") sanshin were invented in the post-war years when Okinawans were very poor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hwLJzZ95i0

Even if you want to play shamisen you should still get a sanshin. Here's a guy playing Tsugaru shamisen-style song on can-sanshin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgDV0lYI4RM

I got my sanshin from eBay for about $300 a few years ago. Nowadays there are also some stores in Okinawa/Japan shipping internationally, I think.

Das MicroKorg
Sep 18, 2005

Vintage Analog Synthesizer
I think we should all post videos of ourselves struggling with our new instruments! I got my Theremin yesterday and practiced a song, which you all should know pretty well :haw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5SFXGQuHNU

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe
That's pretty good.

Das MicroKorg
Sep 18, 2005

Vintage Analog Synthesizer
Thanks :) It's still pretty random, but it's a great feeling when I do hit a good note every now and then. I think I played all day today. It's so much fun!

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

quote:

Has anybody talked about the mandocello yet? I could be persuaded to write a long rambling self indulgent post....

By all means, that'd be awesome. We have another goon who's going to cover cittern/bozouki/octave-mando so you can leave those out and stick to mandocello, which is kind of its own creature outside of the CBOM family as it is.

Do you have any line on semi-affordable mand-cellos, or do those just not exist? I've heard mention of Steve Wishnevsky being decent for $600ish, and Kuhlman having some moderate prices, plus a few folks who've modified guitars to eight-string and strung them as mandocellos, but I'd be curious to hear your take on the market.

snugglebunny posted:

Any word on these [cheap Stylophones that will go up on SA Mart) yet?
I've been waiting anxiously, refreshing since you mentioned it.

Thanks for the prod, but I'm in the middle of preparing to move to another neighborhood (Shaw/LeDroit in DC, for anyone local, Ballston is just too brosephy), so the Stylophones might be delayed for another couple weeks, so keep checking back. Again, I have like 40 of the drat things, so I'm not likely to run out, and I'll try and set one aside for you in the very unlikely event they start going fast.


Speaking of electronic music, wanted to follow up on the ReBirth iPhone app that NMD:ML recommended earlier in the thread. I finally got an iPhone, and a few days in got ReBirth.



It looks a bit intimidating at first, and the first few times I messed with it for a minute I was pretty mystified. Once I mucked with it longer, I realised it has four basic elements, and by using the sliders on the right I could turn on or off any of the four elements, and once an element is isolated it's a lot easier to hear what you're changing with a given knob.

I probably need to go read/watch some tutorials to better understand what all the acronyms and technical terms are, but now I'm optimistic that I'll eventually figure it out. This thing is fun as hell, and if you have any interest whatsoever in mixing up electronica, there's really no reason not to blow $7 on this.

I felt slightly cool and slightly silly to be walking through a neighborhood with my earphones on tapping away on a screen, and suddenly pause and start bobbing my head at a different rhythm as I suddenly figured out how to get some more backbeat into it.

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 21, 2011

N183CS
Feb 21, 2007

MOMS WITH GUNS

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Lap and Pedal Steel

I posted earlier about Dobros but I also play electric lap steel. They are probably the most fun instrument you can play and still not be able to play an instrument. I got a Joe Morrell Pro for like $250 and it comes with a Seymour Duncan pickup. The thing sounds amazing even when plugged into my cheap amp with built in overdrive. I've had mine six months and have yet to do a string change on it. There are tons of tunings for these things and since they are solid wood they can handle incredible tension. I have mine tuned to CGCGCD right now which I guess is some sort of 7th Diminished chord (if I understand my tunings). It has a really dark, almost depression era feel to it. It is similar to Open D which can be really dark and bluesy but also open and bright depending on how you play it.

Longhouse
Nov 8, 2010

Chill out, dog

desert diver posted:

Okay, finally got around to writing about my favourite instrument ...

Sanshin

[...]


Ahaha, I'm so making one of these suckers. If the Okinawans could make them out of tin cans, planks of wood, and parachutes, with little more tools than a bayonet, then I should :bravo2:

sithael
Nov 11, 2004
I'm a Sad Panda too!
anyone curious about a shaminsen-like instrument but doesn't want to spend tons of money, try a Sung Lisu / Subu (i guess, cant find alot of info on it) from Thailand. It's obviously a relative: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lisu-Tibet-Thai-Chinese-Tribal-Tradition-Music-Guitar-/190566790536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eaa7588


I really like mine, for 45$ with shipping included you can't go wrong. Just replace the strings because mine were awfully dirty, but i think it was due to the finish and the humidity change. Does a shaminsen/sanshin use nylon strings? The sanshin looks like it in that picture.

desert diver
Mar 30, 2010

sithael posted:

anyone curious about a shaminsen-like instrument but doesn't want to spend tons of money, try a Sung Lisu / Subu (i guess, cant find alot of info on it) from Thailand. It's obviously a relative: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lisu-Tibet-Thai-Chinese-Tribal-Tradition-Music-Guitar-/190566790536?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5eaa7588

That looks really cool. I have to get one. Do you have an example of what it sounds like?
And yeah, the sanshin has nylon strings and I think shamisens do also(?)

The Chinese sanxian is also a pretty cool instrument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doehGHQMSwY

Roctor
Aug 23, 2005

The doctor of rock.
The Mandocello



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0H457x9Qu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0H457x9Qu0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4SYHdPb-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4SYHdPb-g&feature=related

Here's a sweet video of bad rear end Mike Marshall talking about the mandocello.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAMe9pZwogY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAMe9pZwogY

The mandocello is an instrument from the mandolin family that was almost forgotten, but is now making a bit of a come back. Mandocellos are about the size of a guitar, in fact you can buy mandocellos that are basically guitar bodies with extra strings. Mine looks like an arch-top jazz guitar.

The cool mandocellos look like big mandolins, and have a more "legit" mando sound. You can find F-style and A-style. no difference there, except F-style is what the cool kids get if they can.

It turns out that the mandolin family instruments map to symphony string instruments.

So,
mandolin - violin
mandola - viola
mandocello - cello

It's tuned the same as a cello, and has some range overlap with the guitar, which is why, I suspect, it almost died out.

Why do I play mandocello?
Short answer: I'm a cellist.

Longer answer:
When I first learned that mandolin was tuned in fifths and had the same strings as violin, I immediately wanted one. I did some research and learned about the mandolin family instruments, and the mandocello. At the time I was poor as hell and they were even harder to get then than now.

I eventually got a mandolin and learned some chords and songs and such. Just had some fun. One day I went to https://www.themandolinstore.com to buy a new strap and I noticed the mandocello section and immediately got an erection. I bought the eastman a couple months later and now here I am, certified badass mandocello player.

Where to buy?
If you're lucky enough to have a cool folk instrument shop then those guys can find one for you. You can get weber to custom build one for you. For a lot of money. You can do what I did and buy from https://www.themandolinstore.com (this shop is located in Phoenix, where I live).

Unfortunately mandocellos are not cheap. When I was looking I found a couple online that looked iffy for like 800 bucks, and that was the cheapest I found. If you can't swing the > $1000 price range my suggestion is call the guys at the mandolin store and ask them if they know of anything.

The mandolin store is awesome everybody go there for folk instrument needs
https://www.themandolinstore.com https://www.themandolinstore.com https://www.themandolinstore.com

These guys are located in Phoenix, but they do a lot of online retailing. These guys really know their poo poo. I live in phoenix and I hereby offer to try out gear for people if you want me to vet it. If I ask the guys there will let me video tape me playing on an instrument (or they might make videos of their own if you ask them).


Bonus: me playing "the band played waltzing matilda"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZP23XDfCWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF7D0Q1mcWE

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Do you have any line on semi-affordable mand-cellos, or do those just not exist? I've heard mention of Steve Wishnevsky being decent for $600ish, and Kuhlman having some moderate prices, plus a few folks who've modified guitars to eight-string and strung them as mandocellos, but I'd be curious to hear your take on the market.

My take is that it's not great :(

I hadn't heard of the Wishnevsky or Kuhlman rumors, though, so maybe some hope there.


[edit] I edited in a new video of me playing (I forgot about this post and had removed the bach video I had up previously from youtube).

Roctor fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 9, 2014

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Roctor posted:

I hadn't heard of the Wishnevsky or Kuhlman rumors, though, so maybe some hope there.

From what I read about Wishnevsky, he makes pretty "primitive but serviceable" instruments. He builds a lot of basses, Hawaiian guitars, etc. but mainly I've looked at him for octave mandos and mandocellos. My impression is that his go for around $400-$500 or so, and occasionally he chucks some ones up on eBay that go a little cheaper than that.

He does do a pretty cool body shape for his mando-family instruments:

Roctor
Aug 23, 2005

The doctor of rock.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

From what I read about Wishnevsky, he makes pretty "primitive but serviceable" instruments. He builds a lot of basses, Hawaiian guitars, etc. but mainly I've looked at him for octave mandos and mandocellos. My impression is that his go for around $400-$500 or so, and occasionally he chucks some ones up on eBay that go a little cheaper than that.

I'd never heard of this guy. His instruments are probably more than adequate for anybody who doesn't have plans to be a professional mandocello player :)

http://www.wishnevsky.com/mando.htm

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Roctor posted:

I'd never heard of this guy. His instruments are probably more than adequate for anybody who doesn't have plans to be a professional mandocello player :)

http://www.wishnevsky.com/mando.htm

One of his previous octave-mandos went for only $240 on eBay last time, so I might save his name for my searches, pick up some future OM or mando-cello of his for kicks if I can get it cheap.


Helped another goon find a cheapie dulcimer ($48 shipped) this week, so thought I'd reiterate my previous offer. If anyone needs help finding a dulcimer, let me know and I'll help you track down on. If your budget is $50-100 it might take us a couple weeks to find a decent one, unless you're okay doing some minor repairs (which will save some cost too). If your budget is $100-150-200, that's easy, plenty of great used dulcimers in that range.

There are also cardboard dulcimers for <$50, and a couple goons have those and are really pleased with them. In that design, the fingerboard is the only load-bearing part, so there's no problem with the body being heavy varnished cardboard since all it does is hold the resonating air.

If you want to improvise something for a resonating body, you can also just get a plain fingerboard and glue it onto cigar-boxes, pieces of hollow furniture, etc.




You can buy cheap premade fingerboards from any of the cardboard dulcimer makers, thought it's not much cheaper than a full cardboard dulcimer kit, since the cardboard part is only a few bucks. You could also buy some nicer custom fingerboard/heads, as shown in the pics; I don't know off the top of my head who you'd go to for those, but if you ask on EverythingDulcimer.com I'm sure we can find you some makers who can knock them out cheap. And if you have any woodworking skill/gear, you could knock out a basic improvised dulcimer in an afternoon.

Dulcimer is probably the most accessible and quickest "sounding the best at the earliest stage of learning" of string instruments, so not surprised to see it do well in this thread. I'm moving to an artsier part of town in DC at the end of the month, so I hope to finally get in gear and do some dulcimer workshops in some evenings, whether at a pub on a slow night, or at a yoga centre, library meeting space, or whatever, so if you're in DC message me if you're interested in trying out dulcimer once I do some free workshops.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres
The Stylophone sales thread in SA Mart will go up sometime in the first week of September, and I'll post here when it does.


Moving on to another instrument: for whatever reason I've delayed in putting up this form of bagpipe, though arguably this one is the most suitable for people who just generally "want to play the bagpipe."

Scottish smallpipes (SSP)



First off, to summarise what's been said earlier in the thread: there are many, many kinds of bagpipes. Probably 100+ types from all over Europe, North Africa, and Asia as far east as India. The reason the Scottish Great Highland Bagpipe (GHB) is the most well-known for English-speakers is because the UK military kept its tradition going throughout the 19th and 20th centuries when most other bagpipe traditions were dying out.

The modern SSP is somewhat of a recreation/conglomeration, and offshoot of the GHB. Basically, around 1980 or so some GHB pipers recognised that there used to be smaller cousins of the GHB in Scotland and England, which were softer, indoor volume, etc. So they basically made a smaller GHB, which also used a cylindrical (vice conical) bore and thus was lower-pitched and mellow. To make it more useful still for playing along with an ensemble, they pitched in in A, vice the more obscure Bb of the GHB. Essentially, the SSP is a Scottish bagpipe which instead of being loud and shrieky, is relatively quiet (about as loud as a flute), low and mellow.

If you want to march around in a kilt, or stand on a rocky cliff and play some echoing funeral dirge, you want the GHB. If you want the GHB, don't just go and buy one and teach yourself, find a local marching band or solo teacher, and then let them get you started. GHB is used in very, very specific traditions with tight standards, so you're not any more likely to just "pick one up" and have fun then you are to buy a bassoon from a pawnshop and just jam out at a picnic.

If, however, you want a bagpipe from the Scottish tradition that you can play in your living room without annoying your neighbors, and play the wide span of Scottish fiddle and dance tunes, jam out with guitars, fiddles, and the like, you probably want the SSP. There's generally not much problem to learning SSP on your own, and there are some good instructional materials available. Plus the SSP tradition is loose enough that idiosyncracies are more "character" than "heresy" like with GHB.



So far as buying pipes: SSP can be mouthblown or bellow-blown. Mouthblown tend to have synthetic reeds to avoid your breath mucking them up. Bellows allow you to have cane reeds (purists say it sounds better) without their getting wet, and also allows you to sing/talk while playing. If you're trying to start inexpensively, mouthblown is cheaper and slightly easier to learn on.

Do not buy bagpipes on eBay, or elsewhere online, unless they're specifically labeled as being made by a reputable maker you can google up and see good things about. Yes, you can find good deals on name-brand SSP on eBay, etc., but anything labeled "Great solid-wood Scottish smallpipes! Quality! Best Price! L@@K!" will be made-in-Pakistan trash that's literally unplayable. Not "I can muddle through for six months and get a better set" and more flat-out "waste of money".

A good set of wooden smallpipes with bellows can be had for $800-1000 used, $1000+ new. Worth getting if you have the cash and are serious about learning. If you're shorter on cash, the main three names for good student mouthblown smallpipes are Gibson, Walsh, and Shepherd; these are in the $500-800 new, and you occasionally see the Walshes (in particular) used for $350 or so. If you're looking for a used set, single best place to ask is the Trading Post at the Dunsire Forum; mention your noobness in the thread title and maybe someone will cut you a special deal.

For instructional materials, the Lowland and Border Pipers' Society is the go-to place.



- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6e5_K6Krsg SSP, bozouki, and Bodhran doing some Breton tunes.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPB8tSdnL6I Classic Scottish tune on the inexpensive Walsh smallpipes

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF0Y8UZlvTo Hamish Moore, one of the guys who pretty much invented the modern SSP

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any. :(

I never knew Hamish Moore plays the upper hand with the tips of his fingers :stare:

Speaking as somebody who's had their fingers hit with a practice chanter by Allasdair Gillies for having vaguely bent fingers, that's a little surprising.

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire
Anyone here have any experience with the Musical Saw?

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

jeeves posted:

Anyone here have any experience with the Musical Saw?

Ah, the "singing saw"; it's the closest thing to being an acoustic theremin.

Does just a melody line, no harmonies, but really pure tone, and infinite pitch options within its range (usually about 2 octaves). Once you have the technique down, musically it's no harder than whistling or humming, you just develop to have an ear for how to solo or back up other players.

There are three companies in the US making saws, around the $50 range just for the instrument, and then a little more for the bow, case, and often a "cheater", a little wooden handle that makes it easier to put pressure on the blade.

If you have a saw laying around, you could try playing it, though overall a purpose-made one would be easier. Do note also, if you don't have a bow and are just experimenting, you can hit the saw blade with a hard dowel or similar to get a note, so bowing isn't the only option, especially if you're just messing with it.

Unless an experienced sawist shows up soon, I'll do a full saw writeup in a few days.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

jeeves
May 27, 2001

Deranged Psychopathic
Butler Extraordinaire

TapTheForwardAssist posted:





Thanks for the info, most of which I knew from my own research-- however it is also nice to know it is pretty easy to play.

I'm completely horrible with having patience to practice musical instruments, so I want to try to pick up something easier (and cheaper) and see if I can actually follow through with learning it before I drop a few hundred on something like an accordion.

Also, passing by this statue of Thomas J. Scribner every day in my town slowly inspired me.



If only I could get as inspired by my town's Great Morgani.

jeeves fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 30, 2011

  • Locked thread