Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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IrritationX: May 5, 2004; Bitch, what you don't know about me I can just about squeeze in the Grand fucking Canyon.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Google "Sam Sparks" and "fetus" to restore your faith in the federal justice system

I didn't even look at the judge's name. I should've known, just from the court's location.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 01:23

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# ? May 31, 2024 07:37

Zenostein: Aug 16, 2008; Alhamdulillah-chan

Phil Moscowitz posted:

On another note, from the "Awesome Judgment" department:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/63603276

This is about as rad as:

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Civil/072006/m2304854.pdf

Restore your faith in the federal justice system, probably not.

But it'll probably make you laugh, which is good enough, even if you've seen it tens of times.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 06:51

cerebral: Oct 24, 2002

I once met a partner at a firm that boasted that he had never taken more than a half day off in 40 years with the firm.

In a discussion with someone that knew said partner, it was mentioned that he had lost his wife 25 years previously to cancer. I asked how he had handled her death considering his representations that he had never taken more than a half day off.

The response? "The funeral was at 9:00, he was at his desk by noon." He had 4 kids, 3 of whom were under the age of 18 at the time.

Yeah...

# ? Aug 31, 2011 09:17

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Phil Moscowitz posted:

On another note, from the "Awesome Judgment" department:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/63603276

awesome judgment, same judge

e:f;b

# ? Aug 31, 2011 16:00

entris: Oct 22, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

cerebral posted:

I once met a partner at a firm that boasted that he had never taken more than a half day off in 40 years with the firm.

In a discussion with someone that knew said partner, it was mentioned that he had lost his wife 25 years previously to cancer. I asked how he had handled her death considering his representations that he had never taken more than a half day off.

The response? "The funeral was at 9:00, he was at his desk by noon." He had 4 kids, 3 of whom were under the age of 18 at the time.

Yeah...

In all fairness to the partner, you really don't need to be at your spouse's funeral - there's nothing to be done at that point anyway. At least at your kid's birth you can catch the baby or whatever.

The best you can do at a funeral is draft some client emails on your blackberry.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 16:05

Penguins Like Pies: May 21, 2007

cerebral posted:

I once met a partner at a firm that boasted that he had never taken more than a half day off in 40 years with the firm.

If I do end up practicing for 40 years, I hope "never taking time off" never becomes a boasting point.

Honestly, I'm worried about looking back 20 years later and going "You know all those cool things you used to do? You're an empty shell of a human being now. Congratulations on the money, I guess."

# ? Aug 31, 2011 16:34

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Zenostein posted:

This is about as rad as:

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Civil/072006/m2304854.pdf

Restore your faith in the federal justice system, probably not.

But it'll probably make you laugh, which is good enough, even if you've seen it tens of times.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/05/20110105phoenix-judge-gaines-dies0105.html
Goodnight, sweet prince.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 16:35

Loxbourne: Apr 6, 2011; Tomorrow, doom!
But now, tea.

F E Smith posted:

Very interesting arrangement - never heard of it before! (London lawgoon here.) Is it a small litigation boutique?

Pretty much, yeah. Specialist work involving migrant businessmen, and some sharia-compatible finance and conveyancing. I snapped it up precisely because it was unusual, and I've spent quite enough time as a junior up to my ears in Biglaw repossession work.

Where are you based in London?

Phil Moscowitz posted:

You typically need to be able to manage the case yourself though, and more common in high-volume plaintiff lit places.

That sums it up. Good to hear it isn't a warning sign for anything, which is what I was concerned about. So 10% is a solid starting percentage?

# ? Aug 31, 2011 18:30

Mons Hubris: Aug 29, 2004; fanci flup

If you work for a firm and meet but don't exceed the minimum billing requirements, and you take the vacation days you're allotted... ok, so maybe you don't make partner, but sometimes I wonder if that's really such a bad thing.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 19:19

gvibes: Jan 18, 2010; Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

The Wise Teen posted:

If you work for a firm and meet but don't exceed the minimum billing requirements, and you take the vacation days you're allotted... ok, so maybe you don't make partner, but sometimes I wonder if that's really such a bad thing.

It's not not making partner that should be your concern, it's not getting laid off.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 19:43

Konstantin: Jun 20, 2005; And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

Plus, don't most firms have an 'up or out' policy, where you are automatically fired if you don't get promoted within a certain amount of time?

# ? Aug 31, 2011 21:19

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

cerebral posted:

I once met a partner at a firm that boasted that he had never taken more than a half day off in 40 years with the firm.

I've taken a single one week vacation during my entire 10+ year tenure with my firm.

Frankly, that's not me being a martyr. When you bill by the hour, any time that you're not in the office is time you have to make up somehow. I'd rather go home an hour earlier 50 or 60 days out of the year than take it all in a single one week burst.

Welcome to billing your time, have a nice loving day.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 21:20

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

SlyFrog posted:

I've taken a single one week vacation during my entire 10+ year tenure with my firm.

Frankly, that's not me being a martyr. When you bill by the hour, any time that you're not in the office is time you have to make up somehow. I'd rather go home an hour earlier 50 or 60 days out of the year than take it all in a single one week burst.

Welcome to billing your time, have a nice loving day.

Both of my colleagues are taking month long vacations this fall. No one sees this as weird.
Welcome to government, have a nice day.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 21:40

entris: Oct 22, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Spoke with my boss, he encouraged me to take off two weeks since he'll be on vacation himself during that time, and there won't be a lot for me to do anyway.

So, having gotten explicit approval to take off two weeks, I'll be taking one week and then working half in the office and half at home for the second week.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 21:45

Green Crayons: Apr 2, 2009

entris posted:

So, having gotten explicit approval to take off two weeks, I'll be taking one week and then working half in the office and half at home for the second week.

Having just come off of a two week vacation, it is boring as poo poo by week two. You are doing the right thing.

# ? Aug 31, 2011 21:56

Penguins Like Pies: May 21, 2007

Coloring Book for Lawyers

# ? Aug 31, 2011 22:55

gret: Dec 12, 2005; goggle-eyed freak

Green Crayons posted:

Having just come off of a two week vacation, it is boring as poo poo by week two. You are doing the right thing.

Spoken like a true workaholic lawyer.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 00:45

Mattavist: May 24, 2003

I'd agree that 2 week vacations get boring, you certainly don't appreciate that second week anywhere near as much as the first.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 00:47

cerebral: Oct 24, 2002

SlyFrog posted:

I've taken a single one week vacation during my entire 10+ year tenure with my firm.

Frankly, that's not me being a martyr. When you bill by the hour, any time that you're not in the office is time you have to make up somehow. I'd rather go home an hour earlier 50 or 60 days out of the year than take it all in a single one week burst.

Welcome to billing your time, have a nice loving day.

I know that in the legal profession I'm the maladjusted one, but I just can't fathom signing up for that.

I'm not much into religion, but I now feel the need to sacrifice a small animal/child to give thanks that I don't need to do that to make a living.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 01:31

Roger_Mudd: Jul 18, 2003; Buglord

diospadre posted:

I'd agree that 2 week vacations get boring, you certainly don't appreciate that second week anywhere near as much as the first.

My job only offers 1 week vacation per year so I solved that problem!

# ? Sep 1, 2011 01:39

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Penguins Like Pies posted:

Coloring Book for Lawyers

poo poo is so old

I still laugh at the one about the staff having lunch in the kitchen. "Hello, my smile says. I am one of you. I never eat there."

# ? Sep 1, 2011 02:03

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

cerebral posted:

I know that in the legal profession I'm the maladjusted one, but I just can't fathom signing up for that.

I'm not much into religion, but I now feel the need to sacrifice a small animal/child to give thanks that I don't need to do that to make a living.

I've got to be fair, that's me. Most other people at my firm take a week or two a year (but not all - I've got a partner down the hall that makes me look like a slacker, as I do not recall him taking even the single week off that I did in the 10+ years I've been there).

As much as I rant and rave, I do need to give some perspective (and not seem quite so dedicated as "one week in ten years" sounds). I have taken single days off here and there over the years from time to time, so it's not like I've worked 6-7 days a week without fail for the entire 10+ years. And I have no problem getting the hell out of the office at three in the afternoon occasionally if I feel like it.

That's my point though - private practice for a large firm is miserable enough. Everyone has their preferences. For me, I'd rather go home at 6 p.m. instead of 7 p.m. 50-60 nights per year (or get out at 3 in the afternoon 15 times per year, whatever way you want to look at it) than take the 50-60 hours off that a week's vacation implies.

It's not like billable hours break down that easily, but the general concept applies.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 02:06

shovelbum: Oct 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

So is law actually that fun or is it just Stockholm syndrome or self-deception or something? "I have never taken a day off in 40 years because this rules so hard" is a hell of a claim.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 03:22

remote control carnivore: May 7, 2009

Phil Moscowitz posted:

poo poo is so old

I still laugh at the one about the staff having lunch in the kitchen. "Hello, my smile says. I am one of you. I never eat there."

I think about posting the "color my underpants important" one in the file room but never can quite sack up to do it.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 03:31

cerebral: Oct 24, 2002

shovelbum posted:

So is law actually that fun or is it just Stockholm syndrome or self-deception or something? "I have never taken a day off in 40 years because this rules so hard" is a hell of a claim.

The partner that claimed to have never taken a full day off in 40 years definitely didn't do it because the practice of law was "fun" to him. He did it because his identity and ego were so wrapped up in the practice of law and the running of the firm that he was absolutely lost and miserable whenever he was engaged in anything other than his work.

He is almost universally reviled by everyone that knows him (that doesn't directly benefit from his billable hours), and is an absolute loving chore to be around, even in social situations.

Seriously, he is a special special kind of rear end in a top hat in a profession known for assholes, and his slavish dedication to his work is one of the least offensive things about him.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 03:36

gvibes: Jan 18, 2010; Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

I took two loving days off (well, four counting the weekend), and it felt like my world was collapsing around me when I got back today.

My schedule is perfectly set to gently caress me the rest of the year. Big deadlines basically every two weeks like clockwork.

But I'm not going to have the opportunity to make this kind of scratch forever. I have like two good earning years left before I'm up-or-outed, and then who knows what the gently caress.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 03:51

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

shovelbum posted:

So is law actually that fun or is it just Stockholm syndrome or self-deception or something? "I have never taken a day off in 40 years because this rules so hard" is a hell of a claim.

It can be both. Well not enough to not take a day off, but PD work is fun as hell. It is also emotionally draining (layoffs every few months don't help), so we take vacations.

I can say that my dad who is with a large (but not biglaw ) firm and has been there for decades seems to genuinely love his job. He works a small number of very complex and interesting (even to me and I hate civil) cases that seem to make billables without issue. And even he takes vacation. He's off on a 3 week vacation he takes annually. The firm also has sabbaticals of 3 months every few years partners are expected to use (as in they'll have a talk if you don't) and you are not expected to bill then. Of course, this took a long slog through boring poo poo to get, but even private civil can be fun if you've set the groundwork early.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 03:58

Adar: Jul 27, 2001

SlyFrog posted:

For me, I'd rather go home at 6 p.m. instead of 7 p.m. 50-60 nights per year (or get out at 3 in the afternoon 15 times per year, whatever way you want to look at it) than take the 50-60 hours off

Future law students: look at this quote very carefully, imagine it came from your mouth a decade and a half from now and carefully examine yourself for any thoughts of suicide.

Then realize this man is one of the elite because he has a very well paying job.

# ? Sep 1, 2011 09:16

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

and on that note

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/f...=general&src=me

NYT posted:

Generation Limbo: Waiting It Out

WHEN Stephanie Kelly, a 2009 graduate of the University of Florida, looked for a job in her chosen field, advertising, she found few prospects and even fewer takers. So now she has two jobs: as a part-time �senior secretary� at the Florida Museum of Natural History in Gainesville and a freelance gig writing for Elfster.com, a �secret Santa� Web site.

But is Ms. Kelly stressed out about the lack of a career path she spent four years preparing for? Not at all. Instead, she has come to appreciate her life. �I can cook and write at my own pace,� she said. �I kind of like that about my life.�

Likewise, Amy Klein, who graduated from Harvard in 2007 with a degree in English literature, couldn�t find a job in publishing. At one point, she had applied for an editorial-assistant job at Gourmet magazine. Less than two weeks later, Cond� Nast shut down that 68- year-old magazine. �So much for that job application,� said Ms. Klein, now 26.

One night she bumped into a friend, who asked her to join a punk rock band, Titus Andronicus, as a guitarist. Once, that might have been considered professional suicide. But weighed against a dreary day job, music suddenly held considerable appeal. So last spring, she sublet her room in the Fort Greene section of Brooklyn and toured the country in an old Chevy minivan.

�I�m fulfilling my artistic goals,� Ms. Klein said.

Meet the members of what might be called Generation Limbo: highly educated 20-somethings, whose careers are stuck in neutral, coping with dead-end jobs and listless prospects.

And so they wait: for the economy to turn, for good jobs to materialize, for their lucky break. Some do so bitterly, frustrated that their well-mapped careers have gone astray. Others do so anxiously, wondering how they are going to pay their rent, their school loans, their living expenses � sometimes resorting to once-unthinkable government handouts.

�We did everything we were supposed to,� said Stephanie Morales, 23, who graduated from Dartmouth College in 2009 with hopes of working in the arts. Instead she ended up waiting tables at a Chart House restaurant in Weehawken, N.J., earning $2.17 an hour plus tips, to pay off her student loans. �What was the point of working so hard for 22 years if there was nothing out there?� said Ms. Morales, who is now a paralegal and plans on attending law school.

Some of Ms. Morales�s classmates have found themselves on welfare. �You don�t expect someone who just spent four years in Ivy League schools to be on food stamps,� said Ms. Morales, who estimates that a half-dozen of her friends are on the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. A few are even helping younger graduates figure out how to apply. �We are passing on these traditions on how to work in the adult world as working poor,� Ms. Morales said.

But then there are people like Ms. Kelly and Ms. Klein, who are more laissez-faire. With the job market still bleak, their motto might as well be: �No career? No prospects? No worries!� (Well, at least for the time being.)

After all, much of the situation is out of their control, as victims of bad timing. Ms. Klein contrasted her Harvard classmates with the ones of her older sister, who graduated from Harvard seven years earlier. Those graduates, she said, were career-obsessed and, helped along by a strong economy, aggressively pursued high-powered jobs right after graduation.

By comparison, Ms. Klein said her classmates seemed resigned to waiting for the economic tides to turn. �Plenty of people work in bookstores and work in low-end administrative jobs, even though they have a Harvard degree,� she said. �They are thinking more in terms of creating their own kinds of life that interests them, rather than following a conventional idea of success and job security.�

The numbers are not encouraging. About 14 percent of those who graduated from college between 2006 and 2010 are looking for full-time jobs, either because they are unemployed or have only part-time jobs, according to a survey of 571 recent college graduates released in May by the Heldrich Center at Rutgers.

And then there is the slice of graduates effectively underemployed, using a college degree for positions that don�t require one or barely scraping by, working in call centers, bars or art-supply stores.

�They are a postponed generation,� said Cliff Zukin, an author of the Heldrich Center study. He noted that recent graduates seemed to be living with parents longer and taking longer to become financially secure. The journey on the life path, for many, is essentially stalled.

The Heldrich survey also found that the portion of graduates who described their first job as a �career� fell from 30 percent, if they graduated before the 2008 economic downturn (in 2006 and 2007), to 22 percent, if they graduated after the downturn (in 2009 and 2010).

In an ominous sign, those figures didn�t change much for second jobs, Dr. Zukin added, suggesting that recent graduates were stumbling from field to field. Indeed, Till Marco von Wachter, an economics professor at Columbia University who has studied the impact of recessions on young workers, said the effect on earnings took about a decade to fade.

MEANWHILE, modest jobs mean modest lives. Benjamin Shore, 23, graduated from the University of Maryland last year with a business degree and planned to go into consulting. Instead, he moved back into his parents� house in Cherry Hill, N.J., and spent his days browsing for jobs online.

But when his parents started charging him $500 a month for rent, he moved into a windowless room in a Baltimore row house and took a $12-an-hour job at a Baltimore call center, making calls for a university, encouraging prospects to go back to school. �There�s no point in being diplomatic: it is horrible,� Mr. Shore said.

�I have a college education that I feel like I am wasting by being there,� he added. �I am supposed to do something interesting, something with my brain.� For a while, Mr. Shore ran LongevityDrugstore.com, an online drug retailer that he started, but it went nowhere. To stretch his pay check, he made beans and rice at home and drove slowly to save gas. Eventually he quit, got work as a dock hand and is now thinking of becoming a doctor.

Perhaps not surprisingly, volunteering has become a popular outlet for a generation that seeks meaning in its work. Sarah Weinstein, 25, a 2008 graduate of Boston University, manages a bar in Austin because she couldn�t find an advertising job. In her spare time, she volunteers, doing media relations for Austin Pets Alive, an animal rescue shelter.

�It�d be nice to make more money,� Ms. Weinstein said, but �I prefer it this way so that I have the extra time to spend volunteering and pursuing other things.� Volunteering, however, goes only so far. After three years without an advertising job, she is now applying to graduate school to freshen up her r�sum�.

Meanwhile, people forced out of the rat race are re-evaluating their values and looking elsewhere for satisfaction. �They have to revise their ideas of what they are looking for,� said Kenneth Jedding, author of �Higher Education: On Life, Landing a Job, and Everything Else They Didn�t Teach You in College.�

For Geo Wyeth, 27, who graduated from Yale in 2007, that means adopting a do-it-yourself approach to his career. After college, he worked at an Apple Store in New York as a salesclerk and trainer, while furthering his music career in an experimental rock band. He has observed, he said, a shift among his peers away from the corporate track and toward a more artistic mentality.

�You have to make opportunities happen for yourself, and I think a lot of my classmates weren�t thinking in that way,� he said. �It�s the equivalent of setting up your own lemonade stand.�

quote:

�What was the point of working so hard for 22 years if there was nothing out there?� said Ms. Morales, who...plans on attending law school.

oh irony

# ? Sep 1, 2011 23:26

Bob Log: May 19, 2004; Hey, It's Bob Log

Oh man I've just started to cram for the LSAT and anticipate taking it in september, I don't even want to think about anything else past that. This thread is simultaneously the scariest and most educational thing in my quest for law knowledge. Thankfully I scored a gig that is setting me up with a job after i'm done and paying me through school for my JD I just hope it all stays afloat.

Bob Log fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Sep 1, 2011

# ? Sep 1, 2011 23:46

IrritationX: May 5, 2004; Bitch, what you don't know about me I can just about squeeze in the Grand fucking Canyon.

Bob Log posted:

Oh man I've just started to cram for the LSAT and anticipate taking it in september, I don't even want to think about anything else past that. This thread is simultaneously the scariest and most educational thing in my quest for law knowledge. Thankfully I scored a gig that is setting me up with a job after i'm done and paying me through school for my JD I just hope it all stays afloat.

Got it on paper?

# ? Sep 1, 2011 23:59

Bob Log: May 19, 2004; Hey, It's Bob Log

IrritationX posted:

Got it on paper?

That's confidential.

Did I do this right?

# ? Sep 2, 2011 00:14

GamingOdor: Jun 8, 2001; The stench of chips.

Bob Log posted:

That's confidential.

Did I do this right?

You work somewhere that is going to invest $80,000+ in you so they can bring on an entry-level attorney? Interesting.

# ? Sep 2, 2011 00:40

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

Bob Log posted:

That's confidential.

Did I do this right?

If they can leave you holding your dick and 80k in loan debt, they will.

# ? Sep 2, 2011 00:53

prussian advisor: Jan 15, 2007; The day you see a camera come into our courtroom, its going to roll over my dead body.

Bob Log posted:

That's confidential.

Did I do this right?

Nope! Not even close!

# ? Sep 2, 2011 01:13

Popero: Apr 17, 2001; .406/.553/.735

Don't be a lawyer join Titus Andronicus like that girl in that article.

# ? Sep 2, 2011 01:14

Bold Robot: Jan 6, 2009; Be brave.

Longshot but any other NYU Law goons here? I just started and holy poo poo this is a lot of work.

# ? Sep 2, 2011 02:15

atlas of bugs: Aug 19, 2003; BOOTSTRAPPING
MILLIONAIRE
ONE-PERCENTER

Bob Log posted:

That's confidential.

Did I do this right?

if you are auditioning for a reboot of JAG: yes

# ? Sep 2, 2011 02:19

commish: Sep 17, 2009

blar posted:

You work somewhere that is going to invest $80,000+ in you so they can bring on an entry-level attorney? Interesting.

Yeah, I don't buy it. It just makes no sense unless your dad is running the company.

# ? Sep 2, 2011 03:37

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# ? May 31, 2024 07:37

gret: Dec 12, 2005; goggle-eyed freak

blar posted:

You work somewhere that is going to invest $80,000+ in you so they can bring on an entry-level attorney? Interesting.

patent attorney?

# ? Sep 2, 2011 04:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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