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Finished The Scar and Iron Council The Scar was fantastic. A fascinating setting; exotic, yet believable, featuring multi-faceted characters, a pleasant story arc and slowly building tension. Some interesting questions were asked, like what would an outsider (e. g. a vampire) do if he was given the opportunity to live peacefully with humans? What about the social dynamics in a place like Armada, would the different classes and races find ways to live peacefully together? All in all it felt like the retelling of a fascinating (fictional) social experiment. I also liked the general atmosphere, especially the way ships, water and the ocean were described. It added much to the book and gave a good feel of the sometimes threatening, sometimes protective scenery. All in all the book felt like a big improvement over Perdido Street Station, namely the fact that the author didn't quite overwrite it, or sprinkle it with fancy words like a college student unsure of the quality of his paper. One of the best fantasy books I read in years. So expecting a lot I dived into Iron Council where apparently Cowboys met the Londoners of the 1830's. I didn't quite like it that much. Some scenes were too incomprehensible and when I adjusted they were over already, to be replaced by something even stranger. I didn't like the beginning where we are thrown into the story without knowing anything about the characters' motives. The fact that some of these hardened tough guys were just looking for love was kinda cute though. The general premise of a train and its perpetually replaced rails was a bit much and reminded me of a children's book I once read. All in all not bad but not quite what I was expecting. Compared to The Scar, which also served as a vehicle for political ideas, that one did a much better job of also providing interesting characters and a coherent story than Iron Council. Perhaps it will be better on a second read and I will be able to appreciate it fully. lllllllllllllllllll fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 6, 2011 |
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Aug 6, 2011 17:02
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ConfusedUs posted:I'm a bit past halfway into Perdido Street Station, and it's been utterly fantastic so far. Flowery and overwritten at times, but fantastic nonetheless. Have you read King Rat? It's his first novel, probably the weakest, but probably also the most horrific. I wish I could forget the Mornington Crescent bit.
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Aug 7, 2011 21:14
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House Louse posted:Have you read King Rat? It's his first novel, probably the weakest, but probably also the most horrific. I wish I could forget the Mornington Crescent bit. No. Perdido was my first Mieville novel. I finished it yesterday, and it was flat-out wonderful from start to finish. The plot was a bit predictable (I called Lin's ultimate fate the moment Isaac and the others wrote her off as dead), but I'm okay with predictable. The real star of Perdido Street Station is the world it's set in. It's vividly written, and I mean that quite literally. As I read, I was able to picture almost every scene in detail. I always picture books as I read, but the detail packed into PSS is absolutely astounding. It's also refreshing to read something written above the 8th-grade level. I can't recall the last time I had to look up a word's definition before this book. I'll be buying the rest of his works, though, as time goes.
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Aug 9, 2011 04:39
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ConfusedUs posted:No. Perdido was my first Mieville novel. Awesome, I'm stoked you liked it! The obvious next book to read is either The Scar (probably his best work, a loving amazing oceanic adventure, but it's hardly geographically connected at all to PSS) or Iron Council (which is set in the same city again, as well as in the western reaches of the continent).
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Aug 9, 2011 05:32
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Hedrigall posted:Awesome, I'm stoked you liked it! The obvious next book to read is either The Scar (probably his best work, a loving amazing oceanic adventure, but it's hardly geographically connected at all to PSS) or Iron Council (which is set in the same city again, as well as in the western reaches of the continent). I'm gonna read both of them, I'm sure!
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Aug 9, 2011 05:36
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ConfusedUs posted:I'm gonna read both of them, I'm sure! Definitely pick up Looking for Jake, avoid Kraken, work your way through the other stuff.
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Aug 9, 2011 05:54
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I really liked Kraken  It's definitely China's funniest book.
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Aug 9, 2011 06:03
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I think it would have been really good if it had been like 100 pages shorter. It basically has all of China's flaws, with a terrible protagonist being the most egregious. There's a whole lot of great ideas, but it just doesn't work.
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Aug 9, 2011 06:57
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After PSS I think Embassytown is probably his best work
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Aug 9, 2011 10:19
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My ranking right now, from best to least best (but still very good) would probably go: The Scar*** & Iron Council** Embassytown* PSS*** & Kraken* The City & the City* Looking for Jake** Un Lun Dun* King Rat* The number of stars after each title is how many times I've read each. So my ranking could possibly change after more rereads.
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Aug 9, 2011 11:25
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According to the twitter of someone at Random House, they're now casting for the Looking For Jake audiobook, to be read by various narrators. Which comes out on September 13th. It's awesome that they're having different people narrating each short story, isn't that uh... a little too close to release date to still be in the casting process? How long does an audiobook take to record and produce, I wonder?
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Aug 18, 2011 07:12
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 NEW BOOK ALERT Railsea, to be published May 8th 2012 in the US.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:05
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Oh God, how can only knowing the title and number of pages get me so loving psyched?! 
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Aug 18, 2011 15:22
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1. Kraken's really fun--if it looks fun to you, too, don't listen to the haters. It's probably the Mieville book I *enjoyed* most, not counting Bas-Lag novels. 2. Railsea is probably a young adult book, going by the price and pagecount. Don't worry! YA books can be really good and we're sort of in a YA golden age.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:23
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onefish posted:2. Railsea is probably a young adult book, going by the price and pagecount. Don't worry! YA books can be really good and we're sort of in a YA golden age. Until a few months before publication, Embassytown was listed on Amazon as having something like 208 pages.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:54
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onefish posted:2. Railsea is probably a young adult book, going by the price and pagecount. Don't worry! YA books can be really good and we're sort of in a YA golden age. Un Lun Dun was really fun, though it doesnt really compare to his 'adult' work
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Aug 18, 2011 16:18
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Hedrigall posted:
Calling it now, Armada goes up the Gross Tar, releases the Iron Council and they join forces to bring the great proletarian revolution to Bered Kai Nev. 
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Aug 18, 2011 17:20
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With a title like Railsea there's no way in hell this is what it is but am I the only one who really wants to read a bigass book about the rise and fall of the Malarial Queendoms?
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Aug 18, 2011 17:31
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Oasx posted:Un Lun Dun was really fun, though it doesnt really compare to his 'adult' work Oh right, I actually forgot about Un Lun Dun. Hmm. I would expect something very different from that, which seemed almost "children's book"-inspired. Hopefully a new YA would be more like Paolo Bacigalupi's SHIP BREAKER or similar. Hedrigall posted:Until a few months before publication, Embassytown was listed on Amazon as having something like 208 pages. Hmm. The initial pricing is significant, too, though--$18.00 for a hardcover is standard for YA/children's, but $23.95 retail and up standard for adult. (Embassytown was $26.00). reflir posted:With a title like Railsea there's no way in hell this is what it is but am I the only one who really wants to read a bigass book about the rise and fall of the Malarial Queendoms? I'd love that, but I'd love pretty much any new Bas-Lag stuff, I suspect. RAILSEA does totally suggest Iron Council meets The Scar, though, right? ...
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Aug 18, 2011 19:16
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Such a machine 
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Aug 18, 2011 22:15
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This is pretty much guaranteed not to be a new Bas-Lag novel, because only a few months ago he gave his usual answer re: new Bas-Lag material which was along the lines of "one day maybe, but right now I've got nothing planned". A while ago he said he was thinking of writing a historical novel. This could possibly be it...?
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Aug 19, 2011 02:42
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Hedrigall posted:
Gotta give the man credit, he picks evocative titles. So excited.
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Aug 19, 2011 03:06
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Looking at that Amazon page, this may be a YA book after all...Amazon's Railsea page posted:Related forums
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Aug 19, 2011 04:38
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Can someone who "got" Embassytown explain its appeal to me? I'm about 200 pages in, and it's not interesting at all. It's like The City and the City; there's a novel idea in play, but I just don't care about any of the characters, and certainly don't feel like anything is at stake. After reading The Scar and Perdido Street Station I thought Mieville might be breaking new ground in speculative fiction, but his last few books feel more like they fully deserve the traditional "literary" critique of spec. fic.: affectless & maundering. It feels like a shaggy dog story told by an undergraduate studying linguistics. Metonymy fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Aug 29, 2011 |
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Aug 29, 2011 01:08
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Yanno, that's weird. I felt the same way about TC&TC, just couldn't get into it. I seem to remember the first half of Embassytown meandering a little bit too much, but don't have a copy handy to give it a glance and see if that memory holds up. At least he isn't saying 'puissance' every other page. edit: Maybe you should try Iron Council. I think it's my favorite of the Bas-Lag books, and not just because of the gay sex. edit again: is that part that I spoilered actually a spoiler? Can't remember.
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Aug 31, 2011 00:07
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Yanno, that's weird. I felt the same way about TC&TC, just couldn't get into it. I seem to remember the first half of Embassytown meandering a little bit too much, but don't have a copy handy to give it a glance and see if that memory holds up. At least he isn't saying 'puissance' every other page. I love TC&TC, love languages/linguistics, enjoy sci-fi, and didn't really care much for Embassytown. 
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Aug 31, 2011 01:29
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Just finished PSS today after having finished The Scar a month or so ago. I'm not sure which one I like better. Bellis is a bland, whiney easily manipulated woman and I liked following Isaac more, even if he was a fat, selfish, dick. The real star was the city of New Crobuzon, you can just taste the fear and corruption of the city dripping from every page. The ending of PSS was one of the most depressing things I've ever read. I imagine Isaac and Derkhan living in some rural farming community of Bas-Lag watching over the braindead Lin and it's even more depressing. I really like the ending of the Scar, and I don't know how far ahead Doul had his plans finalized. I like to think that at some point on the trip to the hidden ocean he came up with a last ditch idea to turn around and pulled Hedrigal aside but who knows, and that this wasnt some masterminded plan years in advance. I haven't read Iron Council or any other China Mieville books yet, but I want to take a short break before I go back to Bas-Lag. What's a good non Bas-Lag book to start with? I don't think I would like Kraken beased on the synopsises I've read.
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Aug 31, 2011 02:49
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It's coarse since it's a debut novel, but King Rat is probably the closest to Bas-Lag in that it deals with the genius loci of a setting rather than extrapolating on some individual gimmick Mieville took a fancy to. Aside from the ending, which I hated, TC&TC is probably my favorite book of his though.
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Aug 31, 2011 03:15
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I think China is pretty unique in that his books can be a bit hit and miss for his own fans. It's certainly possible to like all his books, but it's fine to like some of them and not like others.
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Sep 1, 2011 11:53
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Absolutely agree, I am a pretty huge China fan but Kraken did nothing for me, and it took me to about a third of Embassytown before I got it.
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Sep 2, 2011 03:34
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Iron Council, TC&TC, and Embassytown are probably his most sophisticated books, and they're also the ones that are by far the most rewarding on a second read.
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Sep 2, 2011 03:45
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Mrs. Badcrumble posted:Iron Council, TC&TC, and Embassytown are probably his most sophisticated books, and they're also the ones that are by far the most rewarding on a second read. Can you elaborate on what is sophisticated about Embassytown? All I picked up was the stonerish conceit that metaphors aren't a literal representation of the truth, but at the same time they kind of like, are. It felt like Mieville just discovered the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis and thought it would be a fun basis for an entire book. I don't mind reading a thought experiment, even if it's couched in neologisms, but adding neologisms and a setting to a thought experiment didn't make it feel like a story. I watched The Town last night and then wrapped up Embassytown immediately afterwards, and I think Ben Affleck might actually be a more competent storyteller than Mieville. The Town is a walking genre cliche, but it has some Chekhov's guns, and you get some reasons to like or dislike the principal characters, who are allowed to have relationships that seem at least semi-plausible and make decisions that reveal something about themselves. In contrast, in Embassytown characters are frequently thrown into the mix to take one or two actions that change the flow of the narrative, and then vanish until it's time for them to deus ex pseudocharacter the story along again. I can't cite a single relationship in the book that feels "real". Avice wants to see her automa buddy: why? Avice gets married: why? Avice has an extramarital affair with one of the Ambassadors: why? If you asked me to describe the protagonist, I don't think I could characterize her, or even cite one interesting or organic decision, except her inevitable-feeling "education" of the Hosts. Did anyone else think it was a little weird that as much as Mieville likes to explore and exult in "the Other", there's something fundamentally colonialist and anthrocentric about the proposition that the aliens need to be fixed by learning how to communicate like we do? I'm trying to get the rewards of a second read-through without having to do it; I barely had the patience to finish the book the first time.
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Sep 2, 2011 17:27
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quote:Did anyone else think it was a little weird that as much as Mieville likes to explore and exult in "the Other", there's something fundamentally colonialist and anthrocentric about the proposition that the aliens need to be fixed by learning how to communicate like we do?
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Sep 2, 2011 18:47
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China was interviewed on the latest episode of Geeks guide to the galaxy : http://io9.com/5835396/china-mieville-unleashes-linguistic-apocalypse-in-episode-43-of-the-geeks-guide-to-the-galaxy
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Sep 3, 2011 08:14
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Metonymy posted:Can you elaborate on what is sophisticated about Embassytown? All I picked up was the stonerish conceit that metaphors aren't a literal representation of the truth, but at the same time they kind of like, are. It felt like Mieville just discovered the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis and thought it would be a fun basis for an entire book. I don't mind reading a thought experiment, even if it's couched in neologisms, but adding neologisms and a setting to a thought experiment didn't make it feel like a story. I don't think it's particularly brilliant from a linguistics point of view, but I think it does a great job of exploring the way we understand ourselves through stories (and, in that sense, it's very much a return to the themes of Iron Council).
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Sep 3, 2011 08:20
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It isn't really an extramarital affair either. She and her husband had a weird marriage that wasn't recognized on Embassytown, plus it was asexual to start with. As for why she got married, well it was her fourth or fifth wasn't it? It's more of an excuse for her husband to get to Embassytown than anything. Hated floaking though. Seriously. Just say dilettante drat it. I haven't read Looking for Jake yet, but so far I really think The Scar is Mieville's best novel. Bas-Lag feels more fully realized in Armada, city of every single culture that has ever sailed, than New Crobuzon. I thought the Malarial Queendom was just going to be one of the little throwaway paragraphs he writes every so often, I'm really glad we got a closer look at some of the mosquito people.
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Sep 3, 2011 14:28
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Hedrigall posted:Looking at that Amazon page, this may be a YA book after all... Last time I saw him talk he said he had a Young Adult novel basically finished for after Embassytown was out, guessing it was this.
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Sep 4, 2011 03:57
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Picked up The Scar. Read the intro. Mieville manages to touch on every single thing that makes the ocean scary in the first ten pages. The darkness, the pressure, the strange creatures moving in alien ways. And then he twists it to fit his fantasy world and there's portals to other, worse places, and eldritch horrors rise through it all. I love this author. I can't wait until he decides to write a pure horror book. I don't care if it's fifteen years from now, I'll buy it day one. He's so good at it.
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Sep 11, 2011 17:50
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Is it true that The City & The City is actually really unrepresentative of Mieville's work? Cos I read it a few months ago and loved it, but apparently his other stuff is a lot more fantasy-orientated.
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Sep 11, 2011 18:22
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NobbytheSheep posted:Is it true that The City & The City is actually really unrepresentative of Mieville's work? Cos I read it a few months ago and loved it, but apparently his other stuff is a lot more fantasy-orientated. His other work is a lot more fantasy oriented and has a different style, but if you liked this one i would recommend you try some of his other work also, it is very untraditional fantasy
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Sep 11, 2011 18:28
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