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Felix_Cat posted:The only thing about that is Jaqen apparently had no qualms about offing his dad, so it might not apply in all circumstances. Or Jaqen just rolls differently to the rest. 
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Sep 10, 2011 20:12
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Jaqen said he'd kill himself too. I think it's less "part of the rules" than his personal feelings of responsibility towards the gods. And maybe a little feeling of responsibility towards Arya. He obviously knew who she was, and did his best to help her.
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Sep 10, 2011 20:23
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If he'd done his best he would have counselled her to take out the enemy commanders. It's in character for a nine (I think?) year old kid to do what she did, but still.
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Sep 10, 2011 20:26
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Ambiguatron posted:If he'd done his best he would have counselled her to take out the enemy commanders. It's in character for a nine (I think?) year old kid to do what she did, but still. Only when she named Jaqen himself did he break his rules.
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Sep 10, 2011 20:32
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:They definitely will. The whole Red Wedding is so huge and momentous that nothing could follow it in the same episode.
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Sep 10, 2011 21:18
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DirtyRobot posted:I feel like if they filmed it right, the Hound "killing" Arya would be a pretty great encore gently caress you to the audience. The final straw that makes the horse's head explode. Yeah. Right after the slaughter inside the Twins, we see the scene where the Hound is fighting, Arya runs towards the Twins, Sandor swings his axe, cut to black.
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Sep 10, 2011 22:03
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It's going to be hard to pull off on film the same ambiguity about which side of the axe he was swinging, however.
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Sep 10, 2011 22:06
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e: what the hell double post
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Sep 10, 2011 22:16
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NihilCredo posted:It's going to be hard to pull off on film the same ambiguity about which side of the axe he was swinging, however. he does actually hit her with the axe, so it won't take much to hide that he uses the flat/back of it.. if they do the "fade to black" you'll be all "oh wait shes not dead".. but if they just show him running her down, swinging his axe (actual contact hidden by angle/horse) and she drops like shes been loving poleaxed, ... then zoom in on the hound as he slows his horse to a trot... that would convince me she was dead. edit: something that was pretty cool.. when brienne does her fade to black.. and then wakes up , and she isn't loving ok.. her face is chewed to poo poo, and then they hang her. I thought that was pretty pro. (yeah I know they don't really kill her that second time, but still...)
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Sep 10, 2011 22:16
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This seems to be a minority view but I never thought for a second that the Hound had actually killed Arya. What possible reason would he have for killing her?
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Sep 10, 2011 22:51
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NihilCredo posted:It's going to be hard to pull off on film the same ambiguity about which side of the axe he was swinging, however. They should do it like they did ned, you see the hound riding up behind her in slow motion, and the axe comes swinging at her head, and there's an up close look of the sheer terror on Arya's face, she gasps and... you cut to black.
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Sep 10, 2011 22:58
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Iggles posted:This seems to be a minority view but I never thought for a second that the Hound had actually killed Arya. What possible reason would he have for killing her? Sort of like when Jon "dies". Obviously he isn't dead, but you still have this huge "what the gently caress!" feeling because it seemingly comes out of nowhere (even though it's foreshadowed the whole book). You just don't expect the men to actually kill Jon. This stuff is designed to have an impact on the first read when you don't have time to think about it. GRRM is really good at that kind of stuff, but he adds in plenty of foreshadowing for it all so when you go back to the books again you can notice all the setup. The Red Wedding had loads of setup that doesn't make sense until after the fact. So the Red Wedding is still a surprise to most people, but you can go back and see how cleverly Martin set it up. Really close readers probably pick up on stuff a bit better than your average reader, though.
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Sep 10, 2011 23:00
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In fairness I also think Jon is actually dead so I may not be the best judge OR AM I
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Sep 10, 2011 23:26
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I remember when I read ADwD I was irritated by the chapters that ended with Tyrion appearing to be dead. Then, a little bit later, a new Tyrion chapter. So when the Jon chapter ended with him getting stabbed and blacking out, I didn't for a second think, "Whelp, Jon's dead." Not once. Tyrion "died" at least twice in this book, in much the same way that Arya "died" at the Red Wedding. Why is anyone taking Jon's "death" seriously?
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Sep 10, 2011 23:31
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Dr. Faustus posted:Why is anyone taking Jon's "death" seriously? The biggest indicator that a character is destined to die is how many bad decisions they make. We already know Cersei is a goner. Most people have sussed out that it will actually be Jaime that kills her, since he's reclaiming his honor. But Tywin was a victim of his own bad decisions as well. Alienating his sons and daughter to advance the position of his House led directly to his death. Of course Dany screws up everything and is never punished for it and probably should've died after marrying that one dude but whatever she's the exception to everything in this series.
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Sep 11, 2011 00:08
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Iggles posted:In fairness I also think Jon is actually dead so I may not be the best judge
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Sep 11, 2011 00:20
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Toplowtech posted:He is dead but he will probably get better (or worse). Everyone seems to be obsessed with him reviving either via Melisandre or warging, but I'm 90% sure those are red herrings. I don't think the series can handle another major character's resurrection without venturing into total cheese territory. He'll just survive the stabbings.
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Sep 11, 2011 00:49
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:Everyone seems to be obsessed with him reviving either via Melisandre or warging, but I'm 90% sure those are red herrings. I don't think the series can handle another major character's resurrection without venturing into total cheese territory. He'll just survive the stabbings.
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Sep 11, 2011 01:34
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Quantify! posted:I like how surviving multiple stab wounds (from swords!) is more likely than stuff that is literally foreshadowed in the books. Weren't they knives? And weren't most of them pretty inexpertly and half-assedly delivered?
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Sep 11, 2011 01:39
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hailthefish posted:Weren't they knives? And weren't most of them pretty inexpertly and half-assedly delivered? Seriously, the whole thing in the books is magic is getting strong, blah blah, the gods give you the power to change your shape and move your mind around to different living things and bring people back to life, blah blah, and you guys are all "Well there's probably a rational explanation for this one."
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Sep 11, 2011 01:46
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Quantify! posted:I'm sure the seasoned warriors of the Night's Watch just ran away after half-heartedly poking Jon, and he immediately got up and was fine. At least one of the stabbers was a steward, one of them was crying while doing it, and there were all kinds of wildlings.
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Sep 11, 2011 02:21
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hailthefish posted:At least one of the stabbers was a steward, one of them was crying while doing it, and there were all kinds of wildlings.
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Sep 11, 2011 02:28
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the wildlings would be on jon's side
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Sep 11, 2011 03:21
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Quantify! posted:Wildlings? Well it makes sense then. They weren't trained on how to use a sword, so they can't stab a guy properly. Look, yeah, it's a little far-fetched for him to survive it. But the whole "warg into Ghost and back" thing would just be so stupid.
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Sep 11, 2011 03:52
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:Look, yeah, it's a little far-fetched for him to survive it. But the whole "warg into Ghost and back" thing would just be so stupid. I have to agree with you there. I have a feeling that WoW is going to be mostly the aftermath of Jon's death, people dealing with Roose's dominance of the north, and the Lannisters trying to deal with a two-pronged attack in the south. I'm thinking the Wight Walkers are going to breach the wall sometime during all of this (Either during the prologue or during a Melisandre PoV, remember the two corpses Jon imprisoned?) and because Stannis and Roose were too busy loving each other in the butt to look north, they're both going to get their poo poo kicked in. Cut to one of the last chapters being an Azor Ahai PoV, with strong hints at him being Jon. Then another 6 years of blue balling until we get to see him kick more rear end. I'm also starting to believe that Stannis lost the Siege of Winterfell. Not because of any letter poo poo, but because the last time he acted without Melisandre's assistance he lost horribly. e: upon re-reading it looks like I got side-tracked with my insane theories. Yeah, the whole Warging business is really dumb. I'm sure GURM will think of a way to bring Jon back that isn't as blatant as that. double e: Euron & Aegon, not the loving lannisters. Arrrthritis fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 04:06
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Bowen Marsh is so incompetent he probably stabbed himself in the exchange, if Edd isn't seen anymore we'll know he's dead since he is a figment of Jon's imagination. (according to the spoiler thread)
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Sep 11, 2011 04:06
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bigmcgaffney posted:if Edd isn't seen anymore we'll know he's dead since he is a figment of Jon's imagination. (according to the spoiler thread)
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Sep 11, 2011 04:43
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Arrrthritis posted:I have to agree with you there. I have a feeling that WoW is going to be mostly the aftermath of Jon's death, people dealing with Roose's dominance of the north, and the Lannisters trying to deal with the Lannisters and his fleet.
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Sep 11, 2011 05:33
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cheese posted:Ya that all sounds pretty plausible and the way Martin might do it. I doubt its going to be 'oh just kidding, Jon is fine, move on' or 'Oh poo poo Jons dead! Wait, Red Witch just revived him and now hes all Azor Ahaing it!'. I'm also starting to think Stannis is actually dead as well, although Roose may be injured/dead as well. Wasn't it Ramsey who sent Jon that letter? Why would it be him and not Roose? It's a bit of a reach, but Roose may have not wanted to directly be known as threatening the theoretically neutral Night's Watch. Ramsay is known as a crazy out of control bastard already. I'm pretty sure Roose has always planned to put Ramsay down, by the way. Let him run wild and then step in and take him out for 'being out of control'. What a shame he had to do that but it was for the common good all that not his fault. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Sep 11, 2011 |
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Sep 11, 2011 07:23
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Arrrthritis posted:I'm also starting to believe that Stannis lost the Siege of Winterfell. Not because of any letter poo poo, but because the last time he acted without Melisandre's assistance he lost horribly. cheese posted:I'm also starting to think Stannis is actually dead as well, although Roose may be injured/dead as well. Wasn't it Ramsey who sent Jon that letter? Why would it be him and not Roose? I'm amazed that people think that any fighting at Winterfell even happened. It seemed pretty obvious to me that Ramsay was lying about Stannis to provoke Jon (since Theon and Jeyne are now with Asha and Stannis and yet Ramsay includes them in his letter). I'm working under the assumption that the siege of Winterfell is still to come.
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Sep 11, 2011 07:47
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:Look, yeah, it's a little far-fetched for him to survive it. But the whole "warg into Ghost and back" thing would just be so stupid. I agree it would be really loving stupid, but I can't help wondering what the point of the prologue was if not to set this up. I really hope I'm wrong.
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Sep 11, 2011 16:38
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Junkenstein posted:I agree it would be really loving stupid, but I can't help wondering what the point of the prologue was if not to set this up. I really hope I'm wrong. It could tie more into Bran and how he violated several of those "laws" on his way to Bloodraven.
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Sep 11, 2011 17:25
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I still think Hardhome will be "smoke and salt" and Melisandre will be the "red star" (and Nissa Nissa). He spent too much time talking about Hardhome to just drop it in Winds. Plus, it's been on all the maps since GoT, but never mentioned until Dance.
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Sep 11, 2011 17:34
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hampig posted:I'm amazed that people think that any fighting at Winterfell even happened. It seemed pretty obvious to me that Ramsay was lying about Stannis to provoke Jon (since Theon and Jeyne are now with Asha and Stannis and yet Ramsay includes them in his letter). I'm working under the assumption that the siege of Winterfell is still to come. This is semi-related, but did anyone else laugh at the 'I want my Reek, too' line? Seriously, who the gently caress would even understand what that meant? I can just imagine John being like "what the gently caress is a reek?"
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Sep 11, 2011 17:41
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:I still think Hardhome will be "smoke and salt" and Melisandre will be the "red star" (and Nissa Nissa). He spent too much time talking about Hardhome to just drop it in Winds. Plus, it's been on all the maps since GoT, but never mentioned until Dance.
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Sep 11, 2011 18:53
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Could the 'stabbing one dear to him' part of the azor ahai prophecy refer to Jon giving up on rescuing Arya?
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Sep 11, 2011 19:11
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Mr Crustacean posted:Could the 'stabbing one dear to him' part of the azor ahai prophecy refer to Jon giving up on rescuing Arya? Since it's not actually Arya, and she isn't actually going to get killed because Jon doesn't show up, why would the gods favor him? Dany actually killed her beloved husband. She actually woke dragons from stone. She actually fulfilled every one of the requirements. I'm really not sure how 4 books later people can still think there's going to be a twist on this. The twist is how many characters don't realize that Dany is Azor Ahai.
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Sep 11, 2011 19:30
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Sansa is Azor Ahai. While the comet was going she was reborn as a woman amidst salt tears and smoke coming from her burning mattress and Tyrion burning the Kingswood to wake dragons from stone. She's now called Alayne Stone and is being mentored by the man who can rub dragons together to make more.
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Sep 11, 2011 19:46
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Iggles posted:Sansa is Azor Ahai. While the comet was going she was reborn as a woman amidst salt tears and smoke coming from her burning mattress and Tyrion burning the Kingswood to wake dragons from stone. She's now called Alayne Stone and is being mentored by the man who can rub dragons together to make more. This is one of those times. I am now a believer in the "Sansa is Azor Ahai" theory.
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Sep 11, 2011 20:09
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The Hound is Azor Ahai. He was reborn as a silent priest, he will kill Zombie Gregor (who he secretly loves deep down inside, making him Nissa Nissa) for Cersie's trial and we find out that when he was digging that ditch in Feast he accidently dug up a dragon that he now controls.
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Sep 11, 2011 20:57
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