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NeuroticErotica
Sep 9, 2003

Perform sex? Uh uh, I don't think I'm up to a performance, but I'll rehearse with you...

DivisionPost posted:

No worries. I saw an indie movie called Film Geek a few years ago...actually, I saw about two minutes of that movie before I decided that I wanted to turn it off, find the director, rubber band together all the copies of Clerks. that I was sure he owned, and beat the crap out of him with that brick.

Of course, this is probably NeuroticErotica's cue to reveal that he knows that guy and he's actually kind of cool.

Never met him. Tried to watch Film Geek on Instant months ago and didn't make it ten minutes.

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Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
Can I inquire as to what the "crazy eights" are? In your title? Both you and Super Hate Ball have them, was wondering if they were screen-play related.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

MixMasterGriff posted:

Can I inquire as to what the "crazy eights" are? In your title? Both you and Super Hate Ball have them, was wondering if they were screen-play related.

Cinema Discusso gang tag :)

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
And it's Magic Hate Ball.

:colbert:

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
Sorry!

I have this hanging on my writing wall. Accept it as retribution?



:)

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.

MixMasterGriff posted:

Sorry!

I have this hanging on my writing wall. Accept it as retribution?



:)

It's a nice loving addition to that wall, that's for sure.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
What's he doing in that photo?

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
High resolution:



I am so, so, sorry for getting us this off-track. Hah.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Orson Welles is always worth going off-track for.

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
Is anyone here a playwright?

I'm doing a drama club type deal, and I'm the most qualified writer by a long stretch, so they asked me to do some plays.

I have my screenwriting structure pretty down (I think), but have never written a play before.

Any key transitional concepts I should nail?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Just some basic tips:

-Try to think in terms of long, developing scenes rather than gradually accelerating montages. Plays are really fun because most deal with events occurring in real time.

-Plays are far more about the dialogue and text than films. A film can get away with stodgy dialogue because it's predominantly a visual medium, whereas theater dialogue has to be woven with care. It can be terse, it can be excessively florid, it can be in iambic pentameter, so long as you put care into each sentence and phrase.

-Though you should probably be thinking in terms of long scenes, remember that the theater is an extraordinarily malleable space. A blank stage can be anything with the proper suggestion. Consider the opening lines of Hamlet, which expressively and immediately lay down location, weather, time, and even prevailing mood. Films are hyper-real, which can be a benefit, but it means that they can't be as fluidly complex or suggestive as a stage, where you can have musical numbers, multiple simultaneous locations, shifting characters, etc. For example, if we wanted to show a character going to the store, going to a courtroom, and then going to bed, he could walk across the stage past a clerk who gives him his grocery bag, a judge who bangs a gavel, and then behind a blanket held up by two stage-hands. To some extent, commercials do this pretty often but it's rare in film.

Mostly I'd suggest you check out some filmed plays and read a few of the classics. Albee's Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf? is great because it's got stylized dialogue, larger-than-life characters, and a setting that can easily be suggested by sparse scenery (also, the film version is nearly verbatim to the play).

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
If I posted some 10 minute plays here, would you mind looking them over? You seem to be qualified! I really appreciate the help!

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Certainly! Also, I'd recommend picking up Jeffery Hatcher's "The Art & Craft Of Playwriting", which picks over the various aspects of plays and playwriting in pretty good depth, and on top of which is really entertaining. Also also, go say hi in the theatre thread, you'll probably pick up even more help and opinions there.

York_M_Chan
Sep 11, 2003

My plays tend to be a lot more bare-boned than my screenplays. I try not to put as much tonal direction i.e. BRADLEY: (Curiously) But why have you chosen brown slacks? I would just leave out the "curiously" and leave it up to the director/actors to determine the tone. I also leave out most of the movement direction. Instead of "Bradley pulls the closet door open, runs his fingers along the fibers of her Angora sweaters, then yanks one viciously from the hanger." I would just put "Bradley crosses to the closet and takes out the sweater." I don't know why I do that, probably because I think plays are made to be done over and over again with a different motif and view with each new performance depending on the troupe while film is meant to be done once in a very defined way.

I don't know why, but I think True West is a good play for screenwriters to read to get into a theater frame of mind.

The actual physical format is also different, my screenwriting software has play format preloaded.

Mike Works
Feb 26, 2003
This is really last second, but I've written a tiny screenplay (6 pages) just to see if I remember how to format everything. Is there any chance I could get someone to take a quick look at it tonight and let me know if I've messed anything up?

Pigeon Shamus
Apr 14, 2010

There's a guard with a pair of swollen testicles who swears you wanted out of here.

York_M_Chan posted:

My plays tend to be a lot more bare-boned than my screenplays. I try not to put as much tonal direction i.e. BRADLEY: (Curiously) But why have you chosen brown slacks? I would just leave out the "curiously" and leave it up to the director/actors to determine the tone. I also leave out most of the movement direction. Instead of "Bradley pulls the closet door open, runs his fingers along the fibers of her Angora sweaters, then yanks one viciously from the hanger." I would just put "Bradley crosses to the closet and takes out the sweater." I don't know why I do that, probably because I think plays are made to be done over and over again with a different motif and view with each new performance depending on the troupe while film is meant to be done once in a very defined way.


I'm working on a commissioned play at the moment that's being workshopped in a few weeks and of all the things I've learned during the process (it's as much a development programme as it is a commission that I'm involved in), this is one of the biggest. Trust the actors and the director to find the tone and the energy, even if it's not what you thought it would be - cutting down tonal direction and movement (not completely, just in comparison to a screenplay) is key in this, because it gives them a lot more freedom to move.

Also, Griff, drop into the Theatre Thread if you haven't already - there's some playwrights and actors over there who could give you a lot of pointers (not that Magic Hate Ball's advice isn't excellent, because it is).

the Bunt
Sep 24, 2007

YOUR GOLDEN MAGNETIC LIGHT

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Hey Bunt, I finished Slur.

It's quite a monster of a script. Very good throughout but definitely overlong. I know you have the ambition to film it and gently caress the time limit but it's not the kind of film that should be three hours long, or even two and a half. Maybe about two hours, like Fish Bowl. Compress the first half into maybe three distinct events (recall the rule of threes), maybe three major parties with smaller, tightened pieces of home life inbetween. Consider blending a couple characters because you've got a huge multitude as it is.

I don't disagree with the ending, though it does come off as a little melodramatic. You've got an issue where Eve descends really far and then starts to normalize, and then suddenly she punches her friend's fetus and tries to choke her dad. It's just an issue of pacing. The last quarter is really dawdling and then suddenly action-action-terror. You have a chance to blend in some poetry, here, by the way. Blend in some mythological influences. Structure a party sequence around the Seven Deadly Sins, for example. Mostly you're lacking a strong structure.

The whole script is an opportunity for some very beautiful cinematography.

Some notes I started taking while I was reading:

On page 101 where they ride the bungee launcher, technically that'd probably be really, really difficult to pull off.

I'm getting Phoebe Caulfield vibes from Colin.

You give Becca too much weight in the beginning of the script. She should appear only periodically, as she does in the second half. I don't think Becca functions well as a main character because she distracts too much from Eve (and she suggests her own, Dorian-Gray-esque script). She should be, throughout, a peripheral character with an off-screen evolution that relates or comments on, in some way or another, Eve's life. Basically you have to either put her in more of the film or make her mostly inconsequential.

You're going to have to include, in dialogue, some indications as to what they're taking. On page 121 they take meth, which is essentially a horrible, bottom-of-the-pit hell-drug and that's enormously important, but it's not mentioned and probably wouldn't be visually obvious.

The scene between Eve and her dad at the Arcade is basically meaningless right now. It has the potential to provide some answers as to Eve's personality.

The scene between Becca and Eve on page 131 is too question-answer. Everything in their conversation could be implied (maybe she could already be eating Big Macs, provoking a reaction from Eve, which would at least provide some reason for her to bring up that she's not the same person she once was).

On 133 you say "Some Guy", but he's given a name about ten seconds later. You could probably just introduce him as "Donn's friend Steve".

Nice job on Eve going through meth withdrawl on the bus and being sick (134-140-ish), very gross and effective.

149, I don't get the birthday dialogue: "I forgot what day it is." "Christ, Eve..."

Part two of Eve's dream ("Eve is Colin") is really silly and unnecessary. The first part in the ocean is very good, though ("golden light", "engulfed in flames").

Page 157, "It was good seeing you again, Evelyn" is a little weird because it seems like he just saw her a couple nights ago.

Don't show Colin's dream, it's vivid enough spoken to evoke imagery. Think of the beach sex in Persona, never shown but so evocative that some audience members remember it as being in the film. The dream is also a little bit silly. Shorten it and make it more ambiguous.

Thanks a ton! This was very helpful. some things:

-Did you find the scene with Eve forcing Colin the vodka scene to be weird or out of character to the point that it's unbelievable? Your Phoebe Caulfield reference is quite spot on, but I still feel that there needs to be a scene like this. Although Colin is sort of Eve's saving grace, she can't help but gently caress it up somehow.

-The meth stuff is a little weird, because the main thing I was trying to do was to misdirect the viewer into the idea of a "downward spiral", presumably ending with meth addiction. The reason that stuff never really comes back again, or even really affects Eve significantly is I was trying to give the sense that her way of life has been going on for a long time and probably won't change much. She does a lot of different drugs in the movie, but it always comes back to the alcohol. Either way, you are right that it should be made clearer what drug it is.

-as an addendum to the last bit, the withdrawl scene is actually not from meth but from alcohol, as it is several days/weeks after the meth scene. The idea is that this scene is where we first see what Eve is like without booze and to show that she's already very physically dependent on it at such a young age. Rosa's character with the meth use is basically to show how someone who imbibes in a much more dangerous and life-changing drug like meth has more control over herself than Eve.

-The birthday dialogue is a bit sloppy, I admit. I was trying to go for Eve ironically pretending to not know her birthday, just to put her father on the spot to admit he doesn't know when it is.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007

Witchfinder General

Anyone interested in reading a screenplay I wrote? It's my first screenplay, I am actually kind of afraid to go back and reread it. My email is hollismason at gmail.com

Hollismason fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 17, 2011

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
How long is it? Also, what draft is it?

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
MixMasterGriff, feel free to post those plays.

the Bunt posted:

Thanks a ton! This was very helpful. some things:

-Did you find the scene with Eve forcing Colin the vodka scene to be weird or out of character to the point that it's unbelievable? Your Phoebe Caulfield reference is quite spot on, but I still feel that there needs to be a scene like this. Although Colin is sort of Eve's saving grace, she can't help but gently caress it up somehow.

It's not so much out of place as it is just another example of some of the excesses your script goes to. A lot of people had a similar problem with Fish Tank, where it crosses the line from crazily despondent to unrealistically melodramatic. Your script is mostly very realistic and that's a great thing because by staying grounded it makes Eve's descent all the more disturbing, but in the last third it veers further and further away from the reality that made it so interesting. Unfortunately my main suggestion is to trim the first half to hell, so you've got some work to do on the second half.

Also, on the confusion as to the date, your script should be clear on the chronology. I understand what you're going for but it's an effect that should be reserved for the audience.

Also also, just in case any of this is discouraging I should say that I really hope that you can trim this down to a more manageable length because the result could be exceptionally stunning.

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011

Magic Hate Ball posted:

MixMasterGriff, feel free to post those plays.

I'm doing re-writes, which I'm sure you know is writer's talk for: "Oh gently caress, this page is blank, how long have I been googling Wombats? gently caress, gently caress, gently caress."

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball posted:

It's not so much out of place as it is just another example of some of the excesses your script goes to. A lot of people had a similar problem with Fish Tank, where it crosses the line from crazily despondent to unrealistically melodramatic. Your script is mostly very realistic and that's a great thing because by staying grounded it makes Eve's descent all the more disturbing, but in the last third it veers further and further away from the reality that made it so interesting. Unfortunately my main suggestion is to trim the first half to hell, so you've got some work to do on the second half.

Also also, just in case any of this is discouraging I should say that I really hope that you can trim this down to a more manageable length because the result could be exceptionally stunning.

That's the big thing you have to decide. Are you going to trim the first two-thirds of the script and rework the ending OR are you going to trim/rework the first two-thirds to fit the tone and message you want to get across with final section?

You are the writer. You can make Eve into whatever you want. If you feel like you HAVE to have that sequence in there, plant the seeds earlier on that she is capable of that. Instead of a picture perfect relationship, have Eve be a little rougher on him. Some dialog that can come off as slightly mean but playful ribbing. Maybe have her turn off his game system while he is playing for a laugh.

I think a lot of the issues I have with your script can be fix with that mindset. Put some dialog in one of the earlier smoking scene with the drug dealer/Eve playing up how special and irreplaceable his bong is. Make Yacht Guy more of a pussy so we wouldn't think that he would go after Eve himself. I don't know what to do about the Dad situation since I thought all of that was out of place and hamfisted.

MixMasterGriff posted:

How long is it? Also, what draft is it?

116 pages, first draft, rough as poo poo.

I was going to give it a read through but the topic didn't interest me (Jesus comes back to modern day New Orleans) and I wouldn't have been much help rating the idea.

Hollis posted:

I finished a rough draft of a screenplay several weeks ago, and would be really interested in getting a nonbiased opinion on the flow of the story as well as plot points. Anyway my email is hollismason at gmail.com

This is a rough draft and the very first screenplay I have ever written. I took a while off before going back to it so that I could look at it fresh pick it apart and make changes. I've had some friends read it and they seem to like it but that isn't a unbiased opinion.

edit:

Oh I should add this is a uncorrected draft meaning I wrote this thing and then walked away from it for awhile. I am just wondering if I should bother going back and bothering. I wrote the screenplay in about 4 days, I dunno how either. I regularly write sketches but once I started writing it it was just done. I didn't plot anything out, or anything like that I just wrote the drat thing.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Sep 17, 2011

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this

MixMasterGriff posted:

I'm doing re-writes, which I'm sure you know is writer's talk for: "Oh gently caress, this page is blank, how long have I been googling Wombats? gently caress, gently caress, gently caress."

Yeah, I spent all day today watching The Sopranos, but I also created nine characters, so I was working, dammit.

Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Sep 17, 2011

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
Mind if I ask what your 'schedule' is?

As I alluded to above, 99% of the time I say "I'm going to write," I end up not writing a thing.

After 3 or 4 drafts I can usually crank out some pretty solid writing, but I honestly don't write very much at all, not nearly as much as I'd like to.

My old strategy of downing a Red-Bull and just power writing doesn't work for me anymore either. I need to get my poo poo together.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
I'm really lame and don't have one at all. Part of it has to do with the fact that I don't have my own computer but even if I did I'd be loving off most of the time. I know a lot of people just hand-write but I write like half as fast as I think which is really frustrating. Every writer, though, has a different technique. The one I've heard most often is to set down an hour or two or three every day and do nothing but write, or try to write with no distractions (though the internet makes that really hard because your brain can find any tiny reason to look something up "for the script" and then ten minutes later you're giggling at macros on imgur).

Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Sep 17, 2011

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011

Magic Hate Ball posted:

(though the internet makes that really hard because your brain can find any tiny reason to look something up "for the script" and then ten minutes later you're giggling at macros on imgur).

You know me all too well.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball posted:

I'm really lame and don't have one at all. Part of it has to do with the fact that I don't have my own computer but even if I did I'd be loving off most of the time. I know a lot of people just hand-write but I write like half as fast as I think which is really frustrating. Every writer, though, has a different technique. The one I've heard most often is to set down an hour or two or three every day and do nothing but write, or try to write with no distractions (though the internet makes that really hard because your brain can find any tiny reason to look something up "for the script" and then ten minutes later you're giggling at macros on imgur).

Get a netbook.

I have one. It's powerful enough to run Final Draft with no issue (along with everything else) and I have to leave the wifi off to keep my battery life up high (in the 6-7 hour range). With no internet, I'm stuck either writing, reading screenplays, playing old adventure games or watching Spaced (the only video I have on the hard drive).

I put some headphones on, set my music player to random and sit. Eventually the ideas and words come out.

Granted, that doesn't help when I'm in a bad mood but it does help me stay focused on the good days.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
If I could afford one I'd own one.

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

Magic Hate Ball posted:

If I could afford one I'd own one.

Save your pennies and sell all of your poo poo :)

I had to say goodbye to my Kindle, a numbered/signed music poster/CD set and my OOP copy of The Third Man on Blu-Ray to get mine. It was worth it.

Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Sep 17, 2011

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
I use Celtx and love it. I think I have an older copy of Final Draft or something, but found the interface confusing. Worth switching?

Also, a cheap netbook can be as low as 200$, if that. I'm saving up for a new Macbook Air though. So sexy.

JMBosch
May 28, 2006

You're dead.
That's your greatest weapon.
This thread's been really helpful seeing how other writers work. Right now I'm trying to finish up first drafts for a couple features and an hour-long cable pilot re-write, but I'd really appreciate it if anyone has the time to critique something a little different I finished a few weeks ago with my writing partner. (I'll happily critique something in return, as long as it's not just a vomit-draft.)

A Day in the Life (PDF)

Logline: 'The Pope elopes from the Vatican for one, full day of the growing up he couldn't manage within its stifling walls.'

The script is a 23-page comedy short with almost no dialogue. It follows The Pope, who, bored with his life, runs off to an unnamed American city for a day. It's kind of my attempt at a short, Beat Takeshi-type road movie, if he made one about the Pope for broad American audiences.

(To be relevant to current discussion: Written with Celtx on an oft-overheating, used MacBook Pro. :cool: )

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011

JMBosch posted:

This thread's been really helpful seeing how other writers "work."

FTFY.

Haven't had a chance to look it over, but 23 minutes is too long for the internet, and too short for a feature (obviously), so the only real chance you'd get to have anyone see the thing is through festivals, and if that doesn't work you're hosed.

I would imagine it working better as like, a 3 minute video, just have it real simple. It could easily go viral.

I'll take a look at it when I get a chance though!

JMBosch
May 28, 2006

You're dead.
That's your greatest weapon.

MixMasterGriff posted:

FTFY.

Haven't had a chance to look it over, but 23 minutes is too long for the internet, and too short for a feature (obviously), so the only real chance you'd get to have anyone see the thing is through festivals, and if that doesn't work you're hosed.

I would imagine it working better as like, a 3 minute video, just have it real simple. It could easily go viral.

I'll take a look at it when I get a chance though!
Thanks. I'm aware of the troublesome length, but we really liked the structure and the gradual pacing. We mostly thought it'd be fun to write and a different kind of portfolio piece. Maybe if I think I can sell it enough I can find a way to break it up into a series of (*shudder*) webisodes or something.

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Remember that the best short films are little golden nuggets. It's nice to consider a languid pace but 23 minutes can be a terribly long time. Some of the finest short films I've seen have been less than ten minutes, and some of the most frustrating have been longer than 15.

edit: just read your Adventure Pope script and it's a case in point. You've taken what could be a funny, sweet, light film and turned it into a massive monster that is by turns surreal, violent, and boring. You're all over the place here, with a lot of interesting connectivity and montage and you've got all sorts of creative, imaginative descriptions in your script but you're saying so little. It's terribly muddled and overblown. Trim it down. Maybe it's just against my tastes but why the grit? You have a couple very good, very cute moments, such as with the caricaturist drawing the kid as a pope, then turning to see the Pope, but you're crushing it together with heavy-handed moments like a troupe of gay men rollerskating around him, or a meth addict stabbing him. I dunno. What are you trying to say?

Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Sep 18, 2011

JMBosch
May 28, 2006

You're dead.
That's your greatest weapon.

Magic Hate Ball posted:

Remember that the best short films are little golden nuggets. It's nice to consider a languid pace but 23 minutes can be a terribly long time. Some of the finest short films I've seen have been less than ten minutes, and some of the most frustrating have been longer than 15.

edit: just read your Adventure Pope script and it's a case in point. You've taken what could be a funny, sweet, light film and turned it into a massive monster that is by turns surreal, violent, and boring. You're all over the place here, with a lot of interesting connectivity and montage and you've got all sorts of creative, imaginative descriptions in your script but you're saying so little. It's terribly muddled and overblown. Trim it down. Maybe it's just against my tastes but why the grit? You have a couple very good, very cute moments, such as with the caricaturist drawing the kid as a pope, then turning to see the Pope, but you're crushing it together with heavy-handed moments like a troupe of gay men rollerskating around him, or a meth addict stabbing him. I dunno. What are you trying to say?
Thanks for taking the time! The grit comes from two places. First, it really is inspired by a lot of Beat Takeshi films. Pretty much all his lighter films are still sprinkled with moments of grit or crushing reality, and his violent, nihilistic films are still sprinkled with humanistic moments of play and shared joy. He really uses the contrast to punctuate changes in the stages of life and the journey. We were hoping to embrace both sides of the coin in the Pope's story to show both him having an effect on more mature things and situations as he grows, and to have higher peaks and lower valleys for those around the Pope as he stumbles through his journey, mostly in the latter half, though, for reasons I think become clear as you read the below.

Second, the script is trying to follow the Pope through his metaphoric new life. Once out of the Vatican, he is (forcibly) rebirthed with the playground kids shoving him out the slide, and then develops from a toddler through to late-middle age by the end. (The Brass Doors in the Vatican he returns to are closed, something reserved almost exclusively for when a Pope dies.) We wanted to have the Pope face a wide variety of life experiences, and have a bigger impact on more people as he got older, wiser, and learns to embrace his kind-hearted, loving nature in the face of whatever conflicts were before him or around him.

The biggest meaning to take from the different scenes, I think, comes from considering them in relation to the other scenes he's been through, like comparing one part of your life to another and seeing why you were happier at one time than another. Like when he starts getting competitive, and loses, at the arm wrestling, he tries to learn martial arts, a more aggressive physical confrontation, and quickly hurts himself. Right after, he thinks he's being accosted by the rollerskating troupe, but they're just having carefree fun together, and he subsequently learns to appreciate the experience by engaging in it constructively with others (musical skating montage). From there, he tries to connect with people more, finding the happiness in it, but he's still got strong impulses he's not experienced in controlling or curbing, hence strip club, bar, abandoned warehouse, etc.

The script is really supposed to mirror that growing up throughout the different parts of life and what people learn to appreciate and why at different points in their life. He makes the biggest and most positive impact on others in his later years, just being friendly and positive around others and embracing his social role as both an important spiritual figure, and just another human here to help, at the same time. Then as he has a last reverie (or maybe requiem for himself) with the redneck in the woods, we see the in memoriam, "posthumous" impact he's had on the lives of those he's engaged with, by nature of embracing his social role. With the return to the Vatican, we see the perspective of the social institution on his "new life," AKA he's apparently assumed dead. And maybe, considering who he is upon his return, maybe that Pope is dead.

Does that help shed more light on what we're trying to say through the script? Some of the scenes might seem to meander a bit, but I think they're mostly pretty in-service to the above goals for the script. Which scenes in particular grate you the most? The rollerskating one is literally the image we had that made us start thinking about the idea in the first place, and while pretty on-the-nose in terms of showing an embrace of social diversity for common good, despite institutional dogma, I think it's great for capturing the newfound excitement and energy he's stumbled on in that stage of his life (entering teen years from my metaphoric estimation) and the communal enrichment that can come from that (before it gets drawn off-track by tits and booze).

Christ that was too long, but hopefully our goals are more clear. We tried to make the condensed-life structure pretty obvious with the gradual progression of things, but we didn't think we could cut it down more without losing some stages in life. And we didn't want to try and drag out a fairly simple idea into a too-long feature. With all this extra info, what would you suggest for shortening/tightening it up?

Digi_Kraken
Sep 4, 2011
I've generally found if it takes that long to explain it, it doesn't need to be in there. But that's just me.


EDIT: Holy gently caress, writing comedy plays is hard. All my favorite comedic plays are musicals, Avenue Q, The Producers, The Book of Mormon. Without the singing, I'm kind of lost.

Should I try doing that, or is that the equivalent of going full-retard?

Digi_Kraken fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Sep 18, 2011

Pigeon Shamus
Apr 14, 2010

There's a guard with a pair of swollen testicles who swears you wanted out of here.

MixMasterGriff posted:

EDIT: Holy gently caress, writing comedy plays is hard. All my favorite comedic plays are musicals, Avenue Q, The Producers, The Book of Mormon. Without the singing, I'm kind of lost.

Should I try doing that, or is that the equivalent of going full-retard?

If you want to write a musical, write a musical. Might make it a bit harder to get produced, but I wouldn't refrain from writing something because you're afraid people won't like it. It's a risk you always take.

I feel your pain re: comedy though. The play I'm working on at the moment has taken a pretty hard turn into black comedy over the last couple of drafts (the first draft was needlessly serious and tone-deaf, among other problems) and making jokes feel both natural and funny is a hard game to play at. I find it helps getting a really solid idea of who your characters are first - it allows to come up with more organic jokes because you know the personalities at play. That said, I'm just a new writer and you do not need to listen to me because it's likely none of my jokes work and I'm the worst person to talk to. :D

Magic Hate Ball
May 6, 2007

ha ha ha!
you've already paid for this
Writing a musical is really, really hard and frankly I'd advise against it unless you're really familiar with music (jazz comes from the heart, but musical comedy is entirely mechanical - not a bad thing, merely a shift of skill). Comedy is hard as hell. I'd suggest, if you're writing a straight play, to look at some of the classic comedic plays. The books for musical comedies aren't a great place to start when it comes to comedy plays because they're almost always pared down, usually leading from one musical number to the next (though in the classic musical comedies - or musicals based on them, such as Merrily We Roll Along - the numbers are diversions and most of the comedic meat can be found in the dialogue). What kind of comedy are you trying to write? Witty one-liners, slapstick farce, schtick, character humor?

JMBosch, it's great that you've put so much thought into this project, it doesn't really come through, mostly because you're being too blatant. The pope going on an adventure is a silly idea, almost like something out of a commercial, and it probably has to do with the fact that the pope is regarded more as an icon than a person, and you're trying to get what is essentially a symbol in a funny hat to go on this big metaphorical journey. It's just doesn't function well because "The Pope" is too big and the idea is too small. Either buff up the events or scale down the main character. He could be a naive priest. This brings up the other issue, which is simply that the basic concept is pretty old-hat. Making the main character the pope just adds a layer of weirdness that is let down by the relatively mundane, vaguely confusing script (your descriptions, by the way, are far too verbose). The concept might work if you were to elevate the whole thing and make it poetic. The pope on a slide is something you'd see in a commercial.

JMBosch
May 28, 2006

You're dead.
That's your greatest weapon.

Magic Hate Ball posted:

JMBosch, it's great that you've put so much thought into this project, it doesn't really come through, mostly because you're being too blatant. The pope going on an adventure is a silly idea, almost like something out of a commercial, and it probably has to do with the fact that the pope is regarded more as an icon than a person, and you're trying to get what is essentially a symbol in a funny hat to go on this big metaphorical journey. It's just doesn't function well because "The Pope" is too big and the idea is too small. Either buff up the events or scale down the main character. He could be a naive priest. This brings up the other issue, which is simply that the basic concept is pretty old-hat. Making the main character the pope just adds a layer of weirdness that is let down by the relatively mundane, vaguely confusing script (your descriptions, by the way, are far too verbose). The concept might work if you were to elevate the whole thing and make it poetic. The pope on a slide is something you'd see in a commercial.
Thanks for the notes, and I see what you mean. We were hoping the "icon" status of the Pope would help imbue the "person" side of his experiences with some more metaphor, gravitas, and comedy, but I definitely understand the commercial comparisons and the problem with simple, broad, and sometimes under-stated, events bumbled through by such a strong icon.

I'll think of how we might be able to either crank up the weight and drama of the events he has to go through (without getting too needlessly gritty), or how to distill it all down to a much shorter, more poetic piece... And yeah, I gotta work on the general verboseness, as you can see, hehe.

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coolhandsarrah
Feb 17, 2009
Hey screenwriting goons. I'm currently trying to expand my spec script portfolio to include one-hour dramas (currently I only have sitcoms). Does anyone else here write specs? Where do you get scripts? Specifically, I'm looking for a Treme script/teleplay, I've had no luck finding one online. Any other tips from TV drama writers is appreciated!

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