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Just a little thing I threw into the scenario today. I don't like how easy and rewarding it is to swap your NIs around in EU3, but I also dislike the 'punish the player and make him hate the game for changing an idea' approach, so I did this instead. A simple little bonus that rewards you for not being gamey.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:00
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That's excellent game design, and I wish Paradox were capable of putting even half the thought and effort into their games that you do, Wiz.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:05
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There's too many lion flags, Netherway should get a sweet owl or something.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:06
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The nice thing about Norway being forced under a PU is that it gains a strong protector to defend it against Swedish landgrabs. It does, however, remove Denmark's natural partner: if I were Denmark right now I'd be resigned to eventually losing Skane and Halland and building up one hell of a navy to prevent the Swedes from crossing the narrow straits. Or desperately trying to form an alliance with Russia so that the next time Sweden DOWs, they have a big war on the Finnish front. That works, too.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:15
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oystertoadfish posted:is that the norwegians in munster? Just a tip, if anybody has "is that X in Y?" type questions, it's easily answered on your own by dragging the image into a graphics editor and using the colour picker - pretty much anything more advanced than Paint will show you the RGB coordinates of the selected pixel, so it's X in Y if and only if they are an exact match. I use FastStone Capture, but Paint.NET works just as well.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:22
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Wiz posted:Oh they're definitely an Arab state, I just don't know whether being Shah of Arabia (the peninsula) would actually be more prestigious than being the Shah of Syria though. A Syria-Arabia would make more sense in the context of Victoria 2 and some kind of Arabic Pannationalism.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:42
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telcontar posted:Being Shia didn't stop the Fatimids. I'll admit to not knowing much about Shi'ism but the Fatimids were Ismailis rather than Twelvers. For Twelvers, I would guess that their belief in the Hidden Imam would preclude them from declaring a Caliph. Historically the rulers of Iran from the 16th century on, who were by far the most prominent Shi'a monarchs, only ever used the title of Shah. As to that, "Shah" is a characteristically Persian title and I don't think an Arab state would use it in lieu of Sultan. The Ottomans used a superlative version, "Padishah," because it emphasized their status as the paramount dynasty in the Islamic world more effectively than Sultan, and also possibly to one-up their main rival, the Shah of Persia. Sultan is a much more likely title than Shah for anybody outside the Persian cultural sphere. Basically a small Muslim state should have an Emir, and a larger one a Sultan, unless its in the Persian cultural sphere, in which case Shah. The rulers of Azerbaijan may have adopted the title of Sultan because of cultural exchange from when the Ildeguzids ruled Arab lands. As to Syria and Arabia--Syria was a subset of Arabia (together with the Peninsula itself and Mesopotamia). Historically nobody ever unified the whole area after the collapse of the Caliphate, so it was never a territorial title. It's possible that if somebody took the whole area they might claim to be Sultan of Arabia. But in the case of Syria eating up Hejaz, I think they'd be more likely to style themselves something like "Sultan of Syria, Emir of Hejaz, and Custodian of the Holy Places" (signifying guardianship over Jerusalem, Medina, and Mecca).
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Oct 11, 2011 21:46
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EvanSchenck posted:
Yeah, at the moment I don't think they could take the title of Sultan of Arabia. However they seem to have made significant progress over the past few years. If they continue at this rate they may just unite the peninsula, and I think the title of Sultan of Arabia might be suitable then.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:53
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Okay, I'll allow them to form Arabia. It requires Medina, Mecca, Sana'a, Muscat, Riyadh and Qatar, so they've got a ways to go.
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Oct 11, 2011 21:55
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Can you provide a key saying what color represents each religion?
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Oct 11, 2011 22:03
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I posted some religious maps of the world earlier that has them all marked, but imgur is down at the moment.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:08
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EvanSchenck posted:I'll admit to not knowing much about Shi'ism but the Fatimids were Ismailis rather than Twelvers. For Twelvers, I would guess that their belief in the Hidden Imam would preclude them from declaring a Caliph. Historically the rulers of Iran from the 16th century on, who were by far the most prominent Shi'a monarchs, only ever used the title of Shah. Sure, the Ottomans claimed the Caliphate after their conquest of Egypt, but that was a title they only used occasionally and when it was to their advantage. In the early modern period, Islam had evolved to a point where the idea of a universal ruler for the entire Ummah was just silly. A lot like the situation with the Holy Roman Emperor, really.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:30
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telcontar posted:That has more to do, I think, with the title of Caliph having lost all its lustre by then. There was still a lot of cachet value to the title in the 10th century. In 1501, 250 years after the Sack of Baghdad and the beginning of the puppet caliphate in Cairo? Not so much. 'Kay, but it's a bit different for the Shia's. I mean, there whole thing is that they are the Shia Ali- the Party/Partisans/Supporters of Ali. Specifically Ali's candidacy for the Caliph due to his closer direct relation to the prophet and the esoteric knowledge he- and later his family- were party to. In Eurocentric terms, a Shia claiming to be the rightful Caliph is like claiming to be the Second Coming of Christ. Only you'd need more stringent proof to not just be Christ reborn but a scion of his family.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:44
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Frionnel posted:I don't care about muslim asia as long as Bhutan turns buddhist and survives as an opm until the end of Vicky. Bhutan and Tibet have been conquered by Indians from over the Himalayas and revolted free three or four times now. Quighar taking Tibet might mean the end though. =( At least Nepal is free. And Navarra! Looks like the endgame in China now! Who is the white blob in the north again? Are they Han or some minority? Looks like a three way fight between northern Han vs Hui Muslims from the west vs the southern Wu/Yue/Gan language block. Plus Korea! Looks like Zhen finally took Yunnan and knocked Dali out of the picture. They still have a ways to go to claim the major population centers along the coast though. I wonder how much success Zhen could have converting the population if they won. Hui Muslims should already be present throughout China at this point even before the Zhen invasion in really small numbers and they have managed to resist assimilating remarkably well to the present day. Forced mass conversion of the entire country can only end in revolt, so they probably have to go with either to top down ruling class converts model or glom Mohammed and the book together with 'Chinese folk religion' and call a day. No pork would sure make Chinese cooking different! Why can't Armenia/Bulgaria form Byzantium? I thought all the Byzantine successor states were Greek dominated? (Also move the COT back from Rhodes already and make Byzantium less of a deathtrap for Nicaea).
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Oct 11, 2011 22:45
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the JJ posted:'Kay, but it's a bit different for the Shia's. I mean, there whole thing is that they are the Shia Ali- the Party/Partisans/Supporters of Ali. Specifically Ali's candidacy for the Caliph due to his closer direct relation to the prophet and the esoteric knowledge he- and later his family- were party to. I think it's alright to keep it but with the rationalization that a Twelver would claim to be guided by the Twelfth Imam rather than outright claiming to be Caliph, and so on.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:49
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the JJ posted:'Kay, but it's a bit different for the Shia's. I mean, there whole thing is that they are the Shia Ali- the Party/Partisans/Supporters of Ali. Specifically Ali's candidacy for the Caliph due to his closer direct relation to the prophet and the esoteric knowledge he- and later his family- were party to. quote:In Eurocentric terms, a Shia claiming to be the rightful Caliph is like claiming to be the Second Coming of Christ. Only you'd need more stringent proof to not just be Christ reborn but a scion of his family.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:50
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i81icu812 posted:Why can't Armenia/Bulgaria form Byzantium? I thought all the Byzantine successor states were Greek dominated? (Also move the COT back from Rhodes already and make Byzantium less of a deathtrap for Nicaea). I'm a bit tired of answering this question over and over again, so this is the last time I'm gonna answer it: I don't like Byzantium being the inevitable result no matter who takes control of Thrace. It's dull.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:52
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telcontar posted:That has more to do, I think, with the title of Caliph having lost all its lustre by then. There was still a lot of cachet value to the title in the 10th century. In 1501, 250 years after the Sack of Baghdad and the beginning of the puppet caliphate in Cairo? Not so much. Granted, with no strong Muslim state akin to the Ottomans in the time period, it's not really a title anyone would seem to seek out. Still, Syria might end up considering it.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:57
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Eh, keep in mind the Mamluks had a puppet Caliph before the Ottomans conquered them. Even if it's just an empty title, its prestigious.
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Oct 11, 2011 22:58
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > Islam is the Light: Goons Just Love Meaningless Imperial Titles
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Oct 11, 2011 23:05
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I think this excerpt from IRC conveys my feelings about the whole 'why won't you let X be byzantium': [00:06] <Wiz> I'm sure if bulgaria takes thrace they will claim to be successor to byzantium [00:06] <Wiz> but so did the Ottomans [00:06] <Wiz> and do you change Ottomans to Byzantium? [00:06] <Wiz> No you loving dont [00:06] <Wiz> so stop wanting every country to be Byzantium thanks
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Oct 11, 2011 23:07
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i81icu812 posted:Looks like Zhen finally took Yunnan and knocked Dali out of the picture. They still have a ways to go to claim the major population centers along the coast though. I wonder how much success Zhen could have converting the population if they won. Hui Muslims should already be present throughout China at this point even before the Zhen invasion in really small numbers and they have managed to resist assimilating remarkably well to the present day. Forced mass conversion of the entire country can only end in revolt, so they probably have to go with either to top down ruling class converts model or glom Mohammed and the book together with 'Chinese folk religion' and call a day. No pork would sure make Chinese cooking different! I cannot imagine this happening. Chinese folk religion is as polytheistic as it gets with idolatry central to many of its rituals. It's incompatible with Islam in too many ways. I can understand the two coexisting side by side with tolerant leaders, but I do not see the two converging.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:17
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Yeah, I think you're making the right decision on Byzantium. Maybe their can be some sort of claim modifier bonus or something for taking Constantinople, but I think if Byzantium dies again, it should stay dead. Armenia is Armenia, Bulgaria is Bulgaria. Maybe they'd form some sort of imperial title (Like the Armenian Emperor or Bulgarian Emperor or something), but keep them who they are. Also Constantinople should be our goal. I want that city! BlackJosh fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Oct 11, 2011 |
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Oct 11, 2011 23:18
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Snipee posted:I cannot imagine this happening. Chinese folk religion is as polytheistic as it gets with idolatry central to many of its rituals. It's incompatible with Islam in too many ways. I can understand the two coexisting side by side with tolerant leaders, but I do not see the two converging.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:20
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That family tree is awesome. Seriously.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:28
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MadPierrot posted:The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Let's Play! > Islam is the Light: Goons Just Love Meaningless Imperial Titles Can't be worse than the paradox forums on that count. Just let the Muslims sack Byz for good the next time you run a mega lp. quote:I cannot imagine this happening. Chinese folk religion is as polytheistic as it gets with idolatry central to many of its rituals. It's incompatible with Islam in too many ways. I can understand the two coexisting side by side with tolerant leaders, but I do not see the two converging. You underestimate the Chinese ability to assimilate everything. It already happens to some degree to the Hui in China. On a large scale it would definitely have be more of a the Chinese incorporating the Muslim side than the other way around though, and the rest of the Muslim world probably would reject it outright.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:31
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i81icu812 posted:Can't be worse than the paradox forums on that count. Just let the Muslims sack Byz for good the next time you run a mega lp. "Wiz, the Sultanate of Rum was a historical title showing clear connection and legacy of the Roman Empire. In fact, that region of Greece was called 'Rumelia,' or Rome-land, by the Muslims! Clearly you need a Sultan of Rum tag as the Islamic Byzantium tag."
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Oct 11, 2011 23:38
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i81icu812 posted:Looks like the endgame in China now! Who is the white blob in the north again? Are they Han or some minority? Looks like a three way fight between northern Han vs Hui Muslims from the west vs the sout No pork would sure make Chinese cooking different! The real China has native Muslim communities who developed both their own style of cooking (the hand-pulled noodles are super good) and adapted Beijing cuisine (mostly to stress beef or lamb over pork, or fowl and seafood where oxen and sheep aren't viable herds). I suspect that if Islam were the majority in China, that's how it would go: some innovation, but a lot of taking the cuisine already there and just throwing in a different meat.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:48
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i81icu812 posted:Can't be worse than the paradox forums on that count. Just let the Muslims sack Byz for good the next time you run a mega lp. Agreed, look at what they did with Christianity in the Taiping. An aggressively missionary syncretic version of Islam could do wonders in the Neo-warring states China. No flags.
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Oct 11, 2011 23:56
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ibntumart posted:The real China has native Muslim communities who developed both their own style of cooking (the hand-pulled noodles are super good) and adapted Beijing cuisine (mostly to stress beef or lamb over pork, or fowl and seafood where oxen and sheep aren't viable herds). I suspect that if Islam were the majority in China, that's how it would go: some innovation, but a lot of taking the cuisine already there and just throwing in a different meat. Agreed, though the lack of viable grazing land for beef/lamb would make things interesting. Hui food is damned tasty and pretty distinctive, and non-Beijing Hui have their own foods as well. It still would be a pretty big change since 'meat' in China is almost always pork. Also snipee, they Hui did manage to coexist for hundreds of years in China. With and without tolerant leaders. Though leaders intolerant of generic Chinese folk religion are pretty hard to come by.
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Oct 12, 2011 00:08
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i81icu812 posted:Agreed, though the lack of viable grazing land for beef/lamb would make things interesting. Hui food is damned tasty and pretty distinctive, and non-Beijing Hui have their own foods as well. It still would be a pretty big change since 'meat' in China is almost always pork. At least in Northern China they could (and did) import lamb and cattle from the Mongolians.
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Oct 12, 2011 00:12
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Wiz posted:At least in Northern China they could (and did) import lamb and cattle from the Mongolians. Who is the big white blob in northern China and whats going on in that part of the world right now?
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Oct 12, 2011 00:21
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i81icu812 posted:Who is the big white blob in northern China and whats going on in that part of the world right now? That's Qi, who apparently annexed the Mongols at some point during the last update. As for what's going on: In the grim past of 16th century China, there is only war.
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Oct 12, 2011 00:25
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Snipee posted:I cannot imagine this happening. Chinese folk religion is as polytheistic as it gets with idolatry central to many of its rituals. It's incompatible with Islam in too many ways. I can understand the two coexisting side by side with tolerant leaders, but I do not see the two converging. You'd be surprised. Because it's polytheistic, I can see folk religion incorporating Islamic rituals/mythology into their beliefs despite the extremely strict rejection of polytheism in pretty much all Abrahamic (Ibrahimic?) religions. Allah would just be another god to worship, presumably. Keep in mind that Islam only really began to spread with the advent of Sufiism, which emphasized the emotional connection to God through some very heterodox practices. More than a few pagan beliefs/practices sneaked into Islam this way, sort of like how Indians and African slaves identified their gods with Catholic saints in Mesoamerica and the Caribbean. Logically, the cultural exchange would flow the other way as well--perhaps more so given the lack of a polytheistic taboo.
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Oct 12, 2011 01:16
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I feel there needs to be a Wizmod for "Become Byzantium" Effects: You lose cores on all provinces except Thrace. Revolt risk boosted by 100% in all non-cored provinces for 1 month. Units become tribal (to simulate Roman legions as opposed to more modern troops)
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Oct 12, 2011 01:51
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Veloxyll posted:Units become tribal (to simulate Roman legions as opposed to more modern troops) I feel like this would probably be the most argued over part of the mod by Paradox posters. The ones that are actually arguing, that is. Then again perhaps EU: Rome has left them with a sour enough taste they wouldn't be won over.
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Oct 12, 2011 01:53
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Veloxyll posted:I feel there needs to be a Wizmod for "Become Byzantium" Needs a flag check for Serbia. If you are Serbia you gain cores on all provinces and 'retake 42nd Rome' casus belli on all countries.
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Oct 12, 2011 02:00
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Patter Song posted:I so hope that natives wreck that Swedish colony. It is the dumbest thing. I mean, British Tierra del Fuego was pretty dumb, but picking a few acres of snow in Canada for no apparent reason is crazy. In my current game that same province was colonized by Oman of all places... 
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Oct 12, 2011 02:04
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Chariot posted:In my current game that same province was colonized by Oman of all places... Sounds like somebody needs to delete their map cache.
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Oct 12, 2011 02:07
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Chariot posted:In my current game that same province was colonized by Oman of all places... Where the hell did Oman get a Colonist from? Silly Oman, America is for Europeans!
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Oct 12, 2011 02:09
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