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Canadians can watch the Fifth Estate episode about Ghaddafi now. Ghaddafi was a very, very bad man. There's footage here that I'm not sure has been released to the public before. http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2011-2012/gadhafi/
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Oct 21, 2011 05:51
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 01:44 |
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So how long before we goldmine this thread? It seems we're close to a new phase. BTW, congrats Brown Moses. I wonder how the arab spring has prepared you for the sleepless night you have coming. Darth Brooks fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 06:12
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A few more videos. He was captured alive, as was Mutassim. It is what it is, I guess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyloRjHg8Zkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcoaSSD0S7w
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Oct 21, 2011 06:19
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HoveringCheesecake posted:A few more videos. He was captured alive, as was Mutassim. It is what it is, I guess. Libyan Wolverine was really excited to have Gaddfi's boot.
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Oct 21, 2011 06:27
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HoveringCheesecake posted:A few more videos. He was captured alive, as was Mutassim. It is what it is, I guess. Killing prisoners of war. How quaint.
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Oct 21, 2011 06:30
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HoveringCheesecake posted:A few more videos. He was captured alive, as was Mutassim. It is what it is, I guess. gently caress, it looks like he's trying to say something. I really want to know what Qaddafi's last words were. Also, it looks like he's honestly very surprised to see his own blood.
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Oct 21, 2011 06:39
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Ghaddafi was an rear end, but how nice that the United States is again involved in the summary execution of a high value POW. Nicely done. And please, when are people going to stop buying the "caught in a crossfire" making hostile movements bullshit that gets pumped out every time something like this happens? And really, I love the arguments that go like this, "I don't care if we murder POWs if they're bad guys like this!" By the way how long do you think it is going to take for the interim government to completely dismantle the nationalized oil industry? I give it 3 months.
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Oct 21, 2011 06:45
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ZombieLenin posted:Ghaddafi was an rear end, but how nice that the United States is again involved in the summary execution of a high value POW. Nicely done. French fighter bombers had attacked the convoy after which Libyans caught and finished him off. Would you care to explain just how United States was 'again' involved? And who are the other high value POWs that United States has summarily executed?
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Oct 21, 2011 06:55
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Bin laden, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo....ZombieLenin posted:Ghaddafi was an rear end, but how nice that the United States is again involved in the summary execution of a high value POW. Nicely done. I firmly believe that if you go just past the far of either political extreme that they curl around to touch each other. Nice that you came to express a far extreme leftist view of the evil of the USA, while ignore that it was the locals who shot him. Of course, blame/responsibility /credit can't go to the "brown people" because the Bad ol USA is behind this execution. This view makes them the hapless Little people Who Need Our Help to Wipe.
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Oct 21, 2011 06:57
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ZombieLenin posted:Ghaddafi was an rear end, but how nice that the United States is again involved in the summary execution of a high value POW. Nicely done.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:05
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Hitler hahahaha holy poo poo.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:05
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ZombieLenin posted:And please, when are people going to stop buying the "caught in a crossfire" making hostile movements bullshit that gets pumped out every time something like this happens? And really, I love the arguments that go like this, "I don't care if we murder POWs if they're bad guys like this!" I don't think anyone necessarily believed it, just that at the early stages there was no evidence that he was executed. Now that it is clear he was, I feel absolutely no different. He did not deserve a trial nor a dignified death.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:10
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HoveringCheesecake posted:A few more videos. He was captured alive, as was Mutassim. It is what it is, I guess. Does he have an entry wound on the left side of his face (I think he does)? Is there an exit wound on the right? How in the hell did he stay concious through that? Also Qaddafi has like the most unnatural movements I have ever seen in a human being. He is clearly right on the verge of death. I won't be surprised to find out that wound to the front of his head is post-mortem. Rrail fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 07:13
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Rrail posted:Does he have an entry wound on the left side of his face (I think he does)? Is there an exit wound on the right? How in the hell did he stay concious through that? There's pictures going around of a distinct entry wound on his left temple. It's possible that he's already been shot in that video, and is somehow still alive. edit: Upon looking at the pic again, kinda looks like it could also be a scab or a big mole. Not really sure. The Casualty fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 07:17
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Rrail posted:Does he have an entry wound on the left side of his face (I think he does)? Is there an exit wound on the right? How in the hell did he stay concious through that? A superficial cut on ones head can bleed like a mother fucker.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:19
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Rrail posted:Does he have an entry wound on the left side of his face (I think he does)? Is there an exit wound on the right? How in the hell did he stay concious through that? I'm not sure. There's a video in the D&D thread where they beat the tar out of him after the pull him out of the culvert. Someone elsewhere thought they might have ripped his left ear off in the process. But yeah. The Mutassim situation bothers me more. He looks pretty damned healthy in that video. Killed trying to escape. Riiiight. Just admit what you did and move on. reagan fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 07:20
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edit i'll just make a new post i screwed this up
az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 07:26
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Daily Mail is saying that a Tornado spotted the convoy and that it was then hit by a US drone and a French Rafale. They are also saying they beat him and maybe tore his ear off while he begged for his life. They then shot him. Delightful.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:33
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This should be a pretty staunch reminder to dictators and their governments, as well as to some of the "untouchable" talking heads that seem to think they can literally do whatever they want. Eventually the poor people that you lorded over are going to find you hiding in a hole, drag you out of it, and violently murder you. And just like the cowards they are, you can always find a dictator hiding in a hole, it would seem.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:37
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According to an Arabic source this is what he said after he was arrested "ايش فيه ..ايش فيه .. خيركم يا شباب خيركم.. ماتقتلونيش.. ان ابوكم .. انتم اولادي I don't know what "Esh fihi" translates from Libyan (probably "what is this?") but the rest is "Have mercy on me, youth, have mercy...don't kill me...I am your father...you are my children" az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 07:38
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HoveringCheesecake posted:I'm not sure. There's a video in the D&D thread where they beat the tar out of him after the pull him out of the culvert. Someone elsewhere thought they might have ripped his left ear off in the process. I agree that they should admit what they did, but I don't think that they should be judged for it any harder than if a bunch of Soviet soldiers found Hitler in the invasion of Berlin and executed him after beating the tar out of him would be judged for it. Yeah, it's bad that due process wasn't observed, but it's not like there's a chance that Ghaddafi was innocent here and I doubt that the Libyans would be satisfied with him spending the rest of his days in a cushy Belgian cell.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:38
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Abandon All Hope posted:Eventually the poor people that you lorded over are going to find you hiding in a hole, drag you out of it, and violently murder you. Only if the United States deems your rebellion worthwhile. Otherwise it will be crushed under the foot of the ruling party.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:40
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I wouldn't be surprised if he'd actually died from wounds that weren't even meant to be fatal. After all:Young Freud posted:Also, it looks like he's honestly very surprised to see his own blood. az jan jananam posted:I don't know what "Esh fihi" translates from Libyan (probably "what is this?") but the rest is "Have mercy on me, youth, have mercy...don't kill me...I'm your father." Rrail posted:Only if the United States deems your rebellion worthwhile. Otherwise it will be crushed under the foot of the ruling party. HoveringCheesecake posted:But yeah. The Mutassim situation bothers me more. He looks pretty damned healthy in that video. Killed trying to escape. Riiiight. Just admit what you did and move on.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:43
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Chortles posted:The first anywhere-near-left post we've had out of this user this whole thread so far? That wasn't really a politically motivated statement, it is just largely the truth. With the exceptions of Tunisia and partially Egypt, all the ME revolutions have at least benefitted from US support, or are in the process of benefiting from it. Libya would not be free of Qaddafi today were it not for the United States; in fact, the rebels would likely have been wiped out.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:50
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Fojar38 posted:I agree that they should admit what they did, but I don't think that they should be judged for it any harder than if a bunch of Chilean soldiers found Salvador Allende in the coup of Chile and executed him after beating the tar out of him would be judged for it.
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Oct 21, 2011 07:54
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According to fighters interviewed by al-Sharq al-Awsat Qaddafi said this after his arrest- «يا أولادي هل تقتلونني؟ يا أبنائي أنا القذافي.. أنا القائد.. ماذا تفعلون؟» "My children, will you kill me? My sons, I am Qaddafi...I am the Leader..what are you doing?" So he said some sort of variation on that. The quote here was translated from Libyan into MSA so it might be an edited rehash of what I posted earlier. az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 07:57
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Fojar38 posted:if a bunch of Soviet soldiers found Hitler in the invasion of Berlin and executed him after beating the tar out of him
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Oct 21, 2011 08:03
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az jan jananam posted:According to fighters interviewed by al-Sharq al-Awsat Qaddafi said this after his arrest- It's pretty creepy that Gaddafi thought of Libya as his family, even though he happily slaughtered them if need be and made them fearful for their lives for 42 years.
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Oct 21, 2011 08:12
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Why is there even a debate about whether Gaddafi and his sons deserve death or not? We're talking about the team of violent men that oppressed this nation and secretly killed thousands of people over the years they were in power. Honestly, a quick death for Gaddafi and Mutassim was probably the kindest way for them to have gone, and you can't drum up support when you're dead.
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Oct 21, 2011 08:17
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Nenonen posted:They and their officers would have faced a fate worse than death, the wrath of Stalin. In a regular army, you don't just go murdering important prisoners like the enemy head of state on your own initiative, no matter if you like them or not. The Libyan fighters on the other hand are not much better principled than your local Hells Angels section. Fair point, but I was thinking more along the lines of whether or not it's understandable or expected. A disciplined army may have been a bad example, but as you pointed out the Rebels aren't a disciplined army. They're a group of civilians with weak training who picked up guns and began fighting. I was personally expecting this to occur if it was the Rebels who found Ghaddafi, because they made it clear that they want Ghaddafi dead. The fact that people are shocked that the rebels killed him in turn shocks me.
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Oct 21, 2011 08:35
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Warcabbit posted:So, what's next? Kurdistan issues are heating up. What happens if Turkey/Iraq light on fire? Turkey won't in the same way as Tunisia/Syria/Libya/Egypt/Yemen. The vast bulk of the population is, well, not Kurdish, and is by and large (from everything I've heard) pretty cool with their lot, and is under a government that is as democratic as it can be obnoxious. But that's probably not what you were asking. Actually, Turkish/Iraqi Kurdistan is a huge goddamn mess right this very instant, after a couple major ambushes on the Turkish side killed two dozen or so soldiers and really, really horked off the Turks. Ten thousand Turkish troops are stomping around the mountains targeting (probable? known?) PKK camps.
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Oct 21, 2011 09:06
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What's the problem with giving Kurds independance, anyway? I've always wanted to know more about this conflict.
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Oct 21, 2011 09:18
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quote:Why is there even a debate about whether Gaddafi and his sons deserve death or not? We're talking about the team of violent men that oppressed this nation and secretly killed thousands of people over the years they were in power. Honestly, a quick death for Gaddafi and Mutassim was probably the kindest way for them to have gone, and you can't drum up support when you're dead. "The media spin on this is too nauseating to tolerate. The so called journalists (actually government stenographers) who have been cheering on the lawless and barbaric behaviour of NATO and it's mercenaries for the last 8 months are so far beyond my contempt that I think I would have serious trouble physically restraining myself if I ever met one face to face. They are greeting the climax of NATOs destruction and mass murder campaign with a smile on their faces and saying that all Libyans are happy and celebrating. This is pure unadulterated war propaganda. Libya has been destroyed with thousands killed and we are to believe that the Libyans (no matter what their feeling for Gaddaffi) are happy about it? It's beyond ridiculous. Do not forget these are the same journalists that deliberately peddled lies of civilian massacres to get this whole thing going. You wont hear them mention UN humanitarian no-fly zones anymore because it would be quite ridiculous to suggest that what has happened in Libya is in any way, shape or form the result of "humanitarian intervention" and is certainly nothing to celebrate. As far as I'm concerned every one of those journalists who lied or refused to speak the truth is an accessory to mass murder." -A comment on this article: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29468.htm And a testimony of what was really happening in Libya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFvpfkUyBqE&feature=player_embedded Gadaffi was guilty of multiple human rights violations spanning back what, 40 years? Where were we then? Turning the blind eye. His violations of human rights were no more so than our leaders here in America. I believe what happened here was a result of him attempting to fix the economy in Libya and Africa, and allowing the Libyan government to become sovereign, because as we all should know, western leaders do not allow this to happen.
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Oct 21, 2011 09:29
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Probably his first mistake was trying to flee towards the massed fighters from Misrata, a city which he planned to wipe of the map, and experienced the worst treatment at the hands of his troops. Had he gone east he would have encountered the Benghazi fighters, who have shown a lot more restraint, and would have had a better chance of surviving.
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Oct 21, 2011 09:45
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de_dust2 posted:And a testimony of what was really happening in Libya:
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Oct 21, 2011 09:48
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Fojar38 posted:I was personally expecting this to occur if it was the Rebels who found Ghaddafi, because they made it clear that they want Ghaddafi dead. The fact that people are shocked that the rebels killed him in turn shocks me. Yes, it would have been more surprising if this didn't happen. It's still reprehensible, but not all that shocking. Basic human behaviour. What actually is shocking and disturbing is that so many people in the internet who very clearly are not Libyans and therefore have no personal interest in the affair express thoughts that Muammar Gaddafi was not a human being and therefore didn't deserve any kind of humane treatment. I mean, I can sort of understand (but not approve) how so many Americans fully supported torturing suspected terrorists because it was somehow connected to an attack against their nation. But why would people get so irrationally angry about some random third world ex-dictator?
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Oct 21, 2011 09:50
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ThePutty posted:What's the problem with giving Kurds independance, anyway? I've always wanted to know more about this conflict. Because Turkish territorial integrity, basically. (Same goes for Iraq and Iran, but the biggest reason Iraqi Kurdistan was a sticky problem after Saddam went down is that Turkey is a very handy ally who takes a very dim view of any Kurdish self-determination anywhere.) It should actually be LESS of a problem these days because Turkey is, uh, un-erasing the Kurds from history and culture - for a rather long time the government's policy was to Turkify them, which is a maneuver that's a bit easier if you're a bazillion Russians leaning on the Tatars than if you're sixty million Turks with fifteen million Kurds (and a whole pile more just over the borders). And actually, mainstream-ish Kurdish opinion in Turkey isn't so much in favor of independence as it was - depending on the poll and where you take it, of course. As you get up into the mountains - and closer to the other countries with large Kurdish minorities - you get a lot more independence-minded people. So why's it still a problem? Old bad blood, for one; and the time-honored story about recursive feedback, for another. Every time Turkish nationalist assholes (there are a lot, including in the government) do something blatant or the government drags its heels on its outreach to the Kurds, the Kurds and/or Turkish liberals protest and the PKK occasionally kicks up a fuss, all of which are great ways to distress the Turkish government, which distresses the protesters, and on and on and on. Especially with the Arab Spring emboldening pretty much everybody involved. I don't really know a whole lot about the Iranian, Iraqi, and Syrian bits, except insofar as the US had to tiptoe around a whole lot after deposing Saddam and not be TOO nice to our cooperative Kurdish buddies lest Turkey throw a shitfit about encouraging Kurdish separatists and giving the nastier bits of the PKK a place to rest and refit. Edit: Most of my information and slant comes from Turkish leftists, who figure the Kurds are pretty justified. The PKK does get up to some pretty nasty stuff when tensions are high though, so I can sort of understand where the "why the gently caress do we give any credence to the Kurds, anyway" vibe from the right comes from. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Oct 21, 2011 |
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Oct 21, 2011 09:54
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Brown Moses posted:I assume you are either a troll or retarded, because this is a video of Lizzie Phelan, one of the most notorious pro-Gaddafi retards who was constantly making up total bullshit about what was happening in Libya. And I ask, if this was truly a humanitarian effort, where were we for the past forty years!?
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Oct 21, 2011 09:57
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de_dust2 posted:I'm not a troll, so I ask who do you believe? The mainstream media or an independent journalist? I tend to believe the one that doesn't lie to me every time I turn on the TV, manufacturing consent for the "war on terror" when the greatest terrorists out there are clearly our own government. Seriously, if you had read this thread you'd know why Lizzie Phelan is not the person to be bringing up, she's a loving Gaddafi shill, and a proven liar. Next you'll be posting links from Globalresearch.ca, Mathaba.net, and Libya360.
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Oct 21, 2011 09:59
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 01:44 |
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All I was trying to say was that things are obviously not as they appear on the surface, and the story is much deeper than what our mainstream media is telling us.
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Oct 21, 2011 10:00
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