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astr0man
Feb 21, 2007

hollyeo deuroga
I believe it was last years playoffs when the steelers ran a triple option zone read for a 2 poimt conversion.

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Detective Thompson
Nov 9, 2007

Sammy Davis Jr. Jr. is also in repose.
Perhaps a dumb question, but when offensive yardage is tallied up for a game, it only counts positive yardage, right? Meaning, let's say, a play results in a gain of five, then the next play is a loss of five. So we're on 3rd and 10 to go. The play results in a first down. Only ten yards is going to be added to the total yardage, right, rather than fifteen? Or is it any yards going forward no matter what?

drunk leprechaun
May 7, 2007
sobriety is for the weak and the stupid

Detective Thompson posted:

Perhaps a dumb question, but when offensive yardage is tallied up for a game, it only counts positive yardage, right? Meaning, let's say, a play results in a gain of five, then the next play is a loss of five. So we're on 3rd and 10 to go. The play results in a first down. Only ten yards is going to be added to the total yardage, right, rather than fifteen? Or is it any yards going forward no matter what?

Correct. It is possible for a player of team to end up with negative yards. It can get a little complicated since the NFL takes sacks off of passing yards, whereas the NCAA takes them off of rushing yards, but other then that they are identical. So in your second down let's assume it was a running play and the rb got the ball then got hit for -5 yards it would be recorded as:

2nd down Player rush -5 yds

And 5 yards would be taken of of his and his team's rushing totals.

MC Fruit Stripe
Nov 26, 2002

around and around we go
I asked this about a million years ago but it was lost in the shuffle, therefore I would like to

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Is there a website which shows how many snaps someone was on the field?

this information would be of great interest to me.

tractor fanatic
Sep 9, 2005

Pillbug

astr0man posted:

I believe it was last years playoffs when the steelers ran a triple option zone read for a 2 poimt conversion.

It was in the Superbowl, in fact!

Strange Matter
Oct 6, 2009

Ask me about Genocide
I've been watching College Football lately, and something has been on my mind. Why do college games have such huge scores? I'm regularly seeing games with 50+ points put up, often against teams with far fewer. Is it that it's harder to build a reliable defense with a 4 year turnaround on players, or is there something else?

drunk leprechaun
May 7, 2007
sobriety is for the weak and the stupid

Strange Matter posted:

I've been watching College Football lately, and something has been on my mind. Why do college games have such huge scores? I'm regularly seeing games with 50+ points put up, often against teams with far fewer. Is it that it's harder to build a reliable defense with a 4 year turnaround on players, or is there something else?

Inequality in team skill. There is a huge gap from top to bottom of even the BCS conferences. You will always get stupid blowouts in college ball. Just part of the game.

Also NCAA football is in a bit of an offensive innovation time. With the rise of the spread offense in the past decade it is taking defenses a bit of time to catch up. The pendulum will swing back to the d eventually and scores will come down.

Bashez
Jul 19, 2004

:10bux:

Strange Matter posted:

I've been watching College Football lately, and something has been on my mind. Why do college games have such huge scores? I'm regularly seeing games with 50+ points put up, often against teams with far fewer. Is it that it's harder to build a reliable defense with a 4 year turnaround on players, or is there something else?

College defenses lack the speed to cover the entire field as well as professional teams. Typically the best players get put on offense so you can control how often they get the ball. This leaves most of the fastest guys on offense against probably 10 guys that have no prayer of matching up with him athletically.

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!

Strange Matter posted:

I've been watching College Football lately, and something has been on my mind. Why do college games have such huge scores? I'm regularly seeing games with 50+ points put up, often against teams with far fewer. Is it that it's harder to build a reliable defense with a 4 year turnaround on players, or is there something else?

Also style points matter in college football.

Blackula69
Apr 1, 2007

DEHUMANIZE  YOURSELF  &  FACE  TO  BLACULA
It's about the disparity of talent. Somebody like Adrian Peterson goes from playing against guys who will never play the sport again to playing against NFL players in one year and he still sets the record for most yards in a game.

sudo rm -rf
Aug 2, 2011


$ mv fullcommunism.sh
/america
$ cd /america
$ ./fullcommunism.sh


Is there much interest in FCS around here? Would be cool to shoot the poo poo with someone besides the anygivensaturday.com guys every week.

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost

Erkenntnis posted:

Is there much interest in FCS around here? Would be cool to shoot the poo poo with someone besides the anygivensaturday.com guys every week.

Make a thread. A lot of people will post in it up front, then ignore it until playoffs start.

sudo rm -rf
Aug 2, 2011


$ mv fullcommunism.sh
/america
$ cd /america
$ ./fullcommunism.sh


tk posted:

Make a thread. A lot of people will post in it up front, then ignore it until playoffs start.

Alright, I'll get to work on a decent-ish OP.

Koskinator
Nov 4, 2009

MOURNFUL: ALAS,
POOR YORICK
When a team has a lefty at QB, do the left and right tackles swap positions? If so, does a 'left tackle' mean literally the guy on the left side of the line, or the guy on the blind side? Do the guards also swap positions? What about the defense? Is there any significant difference to playing blind side tackle/guard for a lefty compared to a righty?

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Koskinator posted:

When a team has a lefty at QB, do the left and right tackles swap positions?

Occasionally.

Koskinator posted:

If so, does a 'left tackle' mean literally the guy on the left side of the line, or the guy on the blind side?

The left tackle is always the guy to the quarterback's left.

Koskinator posted:

Do the guards also swap positions? What about the defense?

Very rarely do you see guards flip. Defensively, most teams move their players around so much now that it's hard to answer.

Koskinator posted:

Is there any significant difference to playing blind side tackle/guard for a lefty compared to a righty?

Not intrinsically. Some guys are significantly better at one side because it's their dominant side or they can't mirror the footwork effectively or something like that. You can generally hide a blind side blocker's deficiencies in pass blocking a bit more, although that's less true than it used to be, but it doesn't matter whether the blind side is the left or right per se.

Koskinator
Nov 4, 2009

MOURNFUL: ALAS,
POOR YORICK
Thanks. I always assumed that the left tackle position was basically just a harder version of right tackle, so you'd want your best tackle in the blind side no matter what.

I read an article a while ago - on FO, I think - that mentioned that one particular player was a 'natural' and best used at the right tackle spot. I thought that meant the guy was pretty reliable, but just wasn't skilled enough to play left tackle.

Koskinator fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Oct 25, 2011

Detective Thompson
Nov 9, 2007

Sammy Davis Jr. Jr. is also in repose.
On a uniform with a captain patch, I've noticed they'll have a different number of gold stars underneath the C, and sometimes a different colored background. What is the significance of the number of gold stars vs. nongold stars and background color? Has a TD always been worth six points since football became a thing? Is there any real reason for it being worth six, or is it just because? And was the officiating at the Jets/Chargers game as crappy as I thought it was?

As an aside, apropos of nothing really, but I just wanted to mention it's a pleasure to watch the Packers play. I'm a Patriots man through and through, but so long as they aren't playing each other, watching Green Bay is fun. Rodgers is a heck of a gunslinger, too. Is the backup QB that played against the Pats last year still with them? I forget his name but he played very well up until that last play where he got all flustered and screwed up.

drunk leprechaun
May 7, 2007
sobriety is for the weak and the stupid
Gold stars represent the number of years that player has been captain. When they max out on start the c turns gold. The background color is meaningless as far as I know and has more to do with aesthetic decisions based on uniform color I believe.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Detective Thompson posted:

Has a TD always been worth six points since football became a thing?

Absolutely not. In the semi-mob games that evolved into handling codes of football, the only score possible was a goal, and all that a touchdown got you was the opportunity for an unimpeded kick at goal (this is why rugby calls the score a "try", which is a contraction of "try-at-goal", and why the modern PAT's official name is "try down"). When American football introduced a points system, the touchdown was worth 4 points, the conversion goal another 4 and field goals were 5; then about 15 years later in 1897 it went to 5+1, then field goals went down to 4 in 1904 and 3 by 1909, with touchdowns going up to 6+1 in 1912; the two-point conversion eventually appeared in 1958. IIRC safeties have always been worth two points, since in the pre-points system they were considered equivalent to two touchdowns.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Detective Thompson posted:

And was the officiating at the Jets/Chargers game as crappy as I thought it was?

It was on the overly flag happy side of bad, but it wasn't a complete game-changing disaster or anything. A lot of it was procedural penalties anyway.

Arschlochkind
Mar 29, 2010

:stare:

drunk leprechaun posted:

Gold stars represent the number of years that player has been captain. When they max out on start the c turns gold. The background color is meaningless as far as I know and has more to do with aesthetic decisions based on uniform color I believe.

I THINK the whole patch is normally gold in a player's fifth year as a team captain (this is the first year they're doing it), but the different colors are around because of breast cancer awareness currently.

drunk leprechaun
May 7, 2007
sobriety is for the weak and the stupid

Arschlochkind posted:

I THINK the whole patch is normally gold in a player's fifth year as a team captain (this is the first year they're doing it), but the different colors are around because of breast cancer awareness currently.

It's definitely the C. Look at Bree's patch in this photo.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/photos/_/id/2580/photoId/1565593/drew-brees

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008

I like to think of the patch as their rating out of four stars.

Bashez
Jul 19, 2004

:10bux:

jeffersonlives posted:

Not intrinsically. Some guys are significantly better at one side because it's their dominant side or they can't mirror the footwork effectively or something like that. You can generally hide a blind side blocker's deficiencies in pass blocking a bit more, although that's less true than it used to be, but it doesn't matter whether the blind side is the left or right per se.

I don't think this is true at all, the blind side blocker is the most important because he's blocking the guy that the Quarterback cannot see. Those are the ones most responsible for strip sacks, fumbles, and injuries.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan
Only up to a certain level of competence. The Saints have been fine with a league average/slightly above average LT. They spend their money on the interior line, instead. The theory is that the LT just has to chip or engage the opposing rusher briefly. Just long enough so that Brees can step up into the pocket and make an accurate throw.

Think about what the results are for a failure on the different parts of the offensive line and what options the QB has. If a tackle fails but the interior does their job, the QB can step up in the pocket to make a good pass. If the interior line fails, but the tackles do their job, the QB has to scramble. If both fail, the QB has to scramble.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Bashez posted:

I don't think this is true at all, the blind side blocker is the most important because he's blocking the guy that the Quarterback cannot see. Those are the ones most responsible for strip sacks, fumbles, and injuries.

I was talking playing LT for a righty QB vs. playing RT for a lefty quarterback, which are both blind side tackle spots, as the original questioner asked.

Bashez
Jul 19, 2004

:10bux:

Kibner posted:

Only up to a certain level of competence. The Saints have been fine with a league average/slightly above average LT. They spend their money on the interior line, instead. The theory is that the LT just has to chip or engage the opposing rusher briefly. Just long enough so that Brees can step up into the pocket and make an accurate throw.

Think about what the results are for a failure on the different parts of the offensive line and what options the QB has. If a tackle fails but the interior does their job, the QB can step up in the pocket to make a good pass. If the interior line fails, but the tackles do their job, the QB has to scramble. If both fail, the QB has to scramble.

If the inside guys fail, you slide and make the throw. The important distinction here is that it is significantly harder for the inside guys to fail because the guys that they are having to block are significantly slower and there is much less area to guard because they are pinned in by other players. This is the reason a good pressure line is talked about as having good edge rushers and why ends and OLBs tend to lead in sacks. The Saints aren't intentionally avoiding upgrading LT, it's hard to upgrade because it's the most sought after line position and the most difficult to play and there are a lot of ways to get worse than Bushrod. Brees is also one of the best at small steps to avoid pressure.

jeffersonlives posted:

I was talking playing LT for a righty QB vs. playing RT for a lefty quarterback, which are both blind side tackle spots, as the original questioner asked.

I understand, I'm saying that you can't hide a blind side tackle's mistakes because the quarterback cannot directly see him. Mistakes on that end are magnified because of turnovers.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Bashez posted:

I understand, I'm saying that you can't hide a blind side tackle's mistakes because the quarterback cannot directly see him. Mistakes on that end are magnified because of turnovers.

Sure you can, among other things you can give the guy extra help or come out of the gun so your quarterback isn't taking a blind drop. The tackle is only on an island if you put him there.

drunk leprechaun
May 7, 2007
sobriety is for the weak and the stupid
Yeah saying that the LT position isn't important is just wrong. Sure you can get by without a great one, but it is just about the most critical position on the o line. I mean look at player salaries. The second highest paid position behind QB is LT. That isn't be accident.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

drunk leprechaun posted:

Yeah saying that the LT position isn't important is just wrong.

Who's saying that? It's a plenty important position. So is the arm side tackle, though. It's not as important, and the skills are ever so slightly different, but it's pretty close on both accounts.

McKracken
Jun 17, 2005

Lets go for a run!

drunk leprechaun posted:

Sure you can get by without a great one

This was the whole point of what Jefferson posted, there are things you can do to take pressure of your blindside tackle so that you can make life livable with Anthony Munoz.

Bashez
Jul 19, 2004

:10bux:

McKracken posted:

This was the whole point of what Jefferson posted, there are things you can do to take pressure of your blindside tackle so that you can make life livable with Anthony Munoz.

No, he said it was easier to cover the blind side than the non blind side. Which isn't true simply due to the fact that the quarterback can adjust for problems he can see much better than ones he can't.

jeffersonlives posted:

You can generally hide a blind side blocker's deficiencies in pass blocking a bit more, although that's less true than it used to be, but it doesn't matter whether the blind side is the left or right per se.

This just isn't true. The blind side tackle is supposed to be your best pass blocker.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Bashez posted:

This just isn't true. The blind side tackle is supposed to be your best pass blocker.

And again, we're talking past each other. You're talking "hide" as in turnovers, I'm talking "hide" as in things teams do schematically to help a mediocre or bad player (or a good player against DeMarcus Ware). Unless you're facing a team that does a ton of stunting or a team that has multiple high level edge rushers, most of the time you're getting a pretty standard edge rush from the other team's best pass rush guy on the blind side, which is not as hard as you'd think to scheme against if you're willing to commit to it. Joe Gibbs figured that out about thirty years ago, actually. Because there's more overload blitzing and generally more of those guys floating around, that's becoming less true by the season, though.

I do think most fans, and perhaps even teams, underestimate the impact of having a turnstile at any line position as opposed to the designated star position. Pass blocking is really a unit thing and not an individual player thing.

eta: Also just for the record, of course the left tackle is usually the best pass blocker. That's not 100% always true - there's definitely guys that can't flip the mechanics or have a dominant side or something like that - but in a vacuum if you've got one guy that's a B+ and one guy that's a B- and they're roughly the same on both sides, the B+ plays the left and the B- plays the right.

oldfan fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Oct 31, 2011

McKracken
Jun 17, 2005

Lets go for a run!

jeffersonlives posted:

Joe Gibbs figured that out about thirty years ago, actually.

Wasn't this because he needed a way to stop LT from ruining his QB's.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

McKracken posted:

Wasn't this because he needed a way to stop LT from ruining his QB's.

Yep.

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

McKracken posted:

Wasn't this because he needed a way to stop LT from ruining his QB's.

I've heard this given as an argument that Derrick Thomas was a better pash rusher than LT. LT had people learning how to deal with the insane speed rush while he was playing, DT played against schemes that were specifically made for a guy like him.

It's likely partially bullshit and partially true and doesn't particularly matter at this point anyway--I heard this a lot back when Thomas wasn't in the hall and the theoretical reason was because he was a lot like Taylor without being him. But it's kind of interesting to think about in any case.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Grittybeard posted:

I've heard this given as an argument that Derrick Thomas was a better pash rusher than LT. LT had people learning how to deal with the insane speed rush while he was playing, DT played against schemes that were specifically made for a guy like him.

It's likely partially bullshit and partially true and doesn't particularly matter at this point anyway--I heard this a lot back when Thomas wasn't in the hall and the theoretical reason was because he was a lot like Taylor without being him. But it's kind of interesting to think about in any case.

Whuh? LT had an entire position reinvented to try and counteract him.

Chifley
Nov 4, 2009
Could people in this thread please give a player's real name instead of/along with the nickname when talking about somebody who retired 20 years ago? It was pretty confusing for a minute trying to work out why someone called Joe Gibbs was trying to stop LaDainian Tomlinson from ruining his QBs.

(The LT they are talking about is a nyg linebacker called Lawrence Taylor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Taylor )

No Safe Word
Feb 26, 2005

Ladainian Tomlinson should never have been called LT, he was LdT or LDT. LT means two possible things in football and neither of them is Ladainian Tomlinson and only one is a person.

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Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010

Bad, very bad!

BIGFOOT PEE BED posted:

Whuh? LT had an entire position reinvented to try and counteract him.

Yeah obviously it's a Chiefs homer argument, although there is a sort of sense to it. Like I said it's mostly BS with perhaps some truth, and in either case it's probably a derail for this thread.

Also sorry I didn't spell out Taylor's name, I wasn't thinking about where I was posting.

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