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Issa is a pig. When Obama was sending tweets to people who follow him, Issa sent out a tweet to people linking to a blog article where they claimed Obama lost a huge number of follower. Also claimed to report him for spam. Issa is a pig and he behaves normal on the show because he would get tore up if he let is real self out.
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Nov 6, 2011 06:37
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JerkyBunion posted:Engvall on the other hand comes off as the typical middle American. Too busy with life to pay attention to politics too closely, too busy to scrutinize any talking point that "makes sense" on the face but, when presented with facts or counter arguments, is willing to accept it and make the correct judgment. Pretty much.
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Nov 6, 2011 19:40
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gently caress you Bill Maher. "Hurrr liberal arts degrees are worthless poo poo for faggots *gets liberal arts degree, becomes millionaire*, well I mean it's cool if you're awesome like me  ."And the biggest loving travesty is that literally everyone missed the point. Education should be free. For everyone.
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Nov 12, 2011 07:57
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I kind of got the impression he was raging against the whole "I am so important and unique flower!" reality tv "I can be a star too!" obsessed culture. Probably came off the wrong way I would agree but I didn't get the same impression you did.
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Nov 12, 2011 08:48
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He did kinda sound like a huge cock. Ellison and Matthews were on point though. His argument being "I studied the arts, but I knew I was going to be a comedian. I had a plan." is really dumb.
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Nov 12, 2011 10:10
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Matthews and Ellison annoyed the living poo poo out of me, even though their views are probably closer to mine than Sullivan's. Jesus loving christ, Matthews. He was reacting to any criticism of JFK like someone just spat his girlfriend in the face. I also could've done without Common's platitudes.
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Nov 12, 2011 12:48
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It's nights like these that show you why the democratic party is in such huge trouble. The message SHOULD be so much easier to spread than "What you're going to spend money?!" as Andrew Sullivan so eloquently said. However, no one in that loving party can articulate a drat thing correctly. They can't soundbite it. They were trying to argue with Bill about arts and education instead of just saying, like above, "Education should be free for those who want it." or at the very least, "People should be free to choose their field of study." Certainly we should encourage math/science etc as much as possible but Bill seemed like he wanted to force it on people. I don't know about you, but I don't want the guy building my bridges being the one who barely passed and hated class so much he never went because he'd rather be dancing. also, why the gently caress couldn't anyone respond to Andrew Sullivan with any kind of anything? "People got educated just fine before the Department of Education." Yea, rich white people.
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Nov 12, 2011 16:43
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Watching Bill trying and pull out that lynching joke next to two visibly uncomfortable blacks guys was so, so awkward.
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Nov 12, 2011 18:05
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Enjoyed most of the show. I like all the participants today. - Barney Frank is so much fun to let loose on TV. He is another person who should be on every episode. Perhaps a Barney Frank/Cornell West road show would be fantastic. - Andrew Sullivan, The Guy on the left who is on the right (get it?), was trying too hard to be a conservative. His old method was "I am with you because the republican party is insane" was more intelligent and more tolerable. He was arguing for no real reason. If you disagree with the way history draws up JFK, write a book about it. - I like well spoken Democrats who are able to make the issues seem so simple. Keith Ellison is always pretty good at this and he did it well in the education discussion. Bill missed the point with the liberal/arts college issue. It doesn't matter as long as we get more people educated. It also doesn't matter if we want to be the country that only puts on plays, as long as; we,the people are happy. We don't need to build anything if we don't want to. - Chris Matthews is always good. It is amazing he is a real talking head that exists in the world of the other talking loons. - I like Common. I think he and Bill should have had a chat before the show to meet each other. It was very jumbled. The questions Bill asked him hint at some sort of subversive culture, or perhaps a perceived culture, that may or may not exist but that is not what Common's interests are. He did not have much Obama bashing the last 3-4 episodes. I still wish he would call out Obama on being a true liberal. Wooty fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Nov 12, 2011 |
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Nov 12, 2011 18:57
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Maher has been calling College degrees a "bubble" for a while now. They are getting more and more expensive (even when adjusted for inflation) as the unemployment and underemployment rates continue to climb. When you read articles like this: http://news.yahoo.com/us-wealth-gap-between-young-old-widest-ever-050259922.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-poverty-at-new-high-16-apf-2840636182.html?x= 0 Age warfare. richardfun posted:Jesus loving christ, Matthews. He was reacting to any criticism of JFK like someone just spat his girlfriend in the face. "JFK: The perfect man! PS buy my book." Wasn't JFK involved with funding the French in Vietnam? I don't like when people are on Maher's show trying to sell their books (that's almost every show now). Also, I rarely like any of the mainstream politicians on the show.
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Nov 13, 2011 00:15
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Zogo posted:I don't like when people are on Maher's show trying to sell their books (that's almost every show now). Also, I rarely like any of the mainstream politicians on the show. I can't stand Matthews in general, but he was particularly obnoxious today.
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Nov 13, 2011 00:23
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People having homes paid for while others don't is not age warfare. Perhaps you hope it would be but that is part of the housing problem. Unless I am mistaken, Bill did not talk about the education bubble this episode. He mentioned people getting degrees in things he feels are less important. Perhaps "softer" degrees or degrees that are not as science based - although last week, he mentioned psychology. Bill Maher has a show because he too is trying to sell something. That is what all TV is. Every person who is on the show is selling something and at no point did anyone claim Kennedy was perfect. Wooty fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 00:33
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I get the feeling Common didn't even know what the allegations against Herman Cain were. Or perhaps he didn't even know who Herman Cain was. "All I know is my gut says no to Herman Cain."
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Nov 13, 2011 02:53
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Zogo posted:"JFK: The perfect man! PS buy my book." The French were already out by then, JFK was president during the 'military advisors' part of Vietnam.
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Nov 13, 2011 03:30
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frenton posted:I get the feeling Common didn't even know what the allegations against Herman Cain were. Or perhaps he didn't even know who Herman Cain was. Boy, I envy Common for not having to deal with the mental pollutant that is Herman Cain. It's like never having heard of Jersey Shore. You may be ignorant about that, but good for you.
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Nov 13, 2011 03:42
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TO UNDERAGE GYMNASTS
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Wooty posted:People having homes paid for while others don't is not age warfare. Perhaps you hope it would be but that is part of the housing problem. There's a lot more than just homes though right? The popular economic talking point and dynamic lately has been the 99% vs. the 1%. But there seems to be an old vs. young aspect to this as well. "The elderly have a comprehensive safety net that most adults, especially young adults, lack," Danziger said.
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Nov 13, 2011 06:05
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Zogo posted:There's a lot more than just homes though right? Just to talk about your links, you have 2 links with 2 different stories. One is about how older people paid off their home loans before the bubble and they are secure. They do not have to pay off home loans or rent or whatever. Younger people still have to make these payments. Being old did not give anyone an advantage. Being older meant they got settled before the corruption hit the fan. Being older and owning your home makes you nowhere near the 1%. Being older means that you have your savings and should be more secure then the young. The second article says that the poverty stats are up because of the way they measure things now. There is a bit of controversy over what is poverty in there but that is not part of the Wall Street issue. For the show and your issues and articles: The 99% stuff is that people feel the system is impossible to overcome. Bill and Crew covered this about 3-4 episodes ago when they talked about the Republican lie that "anyone can be in the 1%" This is a talking point that Republicans have created and somehow have convinced people that they too can be 1%! I mean all Americans can right, we can ALL be 1%, all 100% of us. gently caress YA
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Nov 13, 2011 06:24
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Excuse the double post but I will share a personal anecdote I have discovered about my situation very recently. I think it demonstrates what Zogo may have been interested in. I am a disabled vet, middle age, no education. I am interested in and lead Vet mental health chat groups. Almost all of the other vets in the meetings I run are older, Vietnam vets. Many of them are retired and get a VA disability. They are all in the same situation as all of us really, at least they are very like me. But I am of working age. I am unemployed and don't see anyway to get going again. I am living on Unemployment and VA disability. I make it and eat/pay rent fine but I am supposed to have a job. Due to the times we live in, I am in a major trouble spot. The older guys are set, I am not. It is a very strange situation. What does the country do about someone like me? I am already living off of the government and would love to have a career that I could handle and pay my own way but...what career? doing what? where is the job? I did have a job. I was a contract employee for a government agency but I was laid off. They wanted me to stay but, the agency was losing money, could not raise income (taxes) and out I went. (it is really unfair to say I live off the govt. I was in the military, they take care of some of my problems but I did do my time) To continue this example, my mother is an old woman. She has way more money saved then I do and owns her home. I actually make more money on my unemployment then she ever made in her working career. She doesn't have many expenses (other then me...) This is my example of a major problem. Wooty fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 06:48
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Being older means you benefited from the post-WWII (now apparent) bubble in the american economy and from the period before corporations became or were enabled to become completely amoral during the tail end of the cold war. Not much more. Being older certainly doesn't make someone the 1%, they just got less hosed than those of us who are younger. It's not that those people are necessarily bad, it's that wages haven't kept pace with inflation, that the wealth gap has increased massively, etc. None of that is the fault of older people, but a whole shitload of them don't seem to realize that things have changed.
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Nov 13, 2011 06:49
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IRQ posted:Being older means you benefited from the post-WWII (now apparent) bubble in the american economy and from the period before corporations became or were enabled to become completely amoral during the tail end of the cold war. Not much more. Being older certainly doesn't make someone the 1%, they just got less hosed than those of us who are younger. It's not that those people are necessarily bad, it's that wages haven't kept pace with inflation, that the wealth gap has increased massively, etc. None of that is the fault of older people, but a whole shitload of them don't seem to realize that things have changed. We should all become comedians on HBO 
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Nov 13, 2011 06:54
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Wooty posted:We should all become comedians on HBO I wonder what vanishingly small percent of 1% that job opportunity is. "But I knew I was going to be a comedian!"  I bet it's actually worse than pro-sports player.
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Nov 13, 2011 07:05
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IRQ posted:gently caress you Bill Maher. "Hurrr liberal arts degrees are worthless poo poo for faggots *gets liberal arts degree, becomes millionaire*, well I mean it's cool if you're awesome like me Literally threw a dish I was washing when he said this. Plastic, luckily  I don't need a daily reminder of how I picked a lovely degree, nor do I need to hear it coming out of his oval office-like face.What was the timeframe for that 89,000 arts graduates figure? The last five years?
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Nov 13, 2011 07:20
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Judge Ito Boxing posted:Literally threw a dish I was washing when he said this. Plastic, luckily Bill has hired someone to be on standby to replace his TV's when he throws dishes at them. I wonder if he would hire me to do that... I could get an engineering degree if he would pay for it
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Nov 13, 2011 07:24
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Judge Ito Boxing posted:Literally threw a dish I was washing when he said this. Plastic, luckily What really pisses me off is that I really bought into his line of thinking. I have a "useless" undergrad degree too, so I went to grad school, and now I have debt I will probably never get out from under and another degree that would be useful in Maher's world, except I would literally kill myself if I made a life of it. I don't think he's ever considered that aspect of what he's saying, and it's not just me.
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Nov 13, 2011 07:33
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IRQ posted:What really pisses me off is that I really bought into his line of thinking. I have a "useless" undergrad degree too, so I went to grad school, and now I have debt I will probably never get out from under and another degree that would be useful in Maher's world, except I would literally kill myself if I made a life of it. I don't think he's ever considered that aspect of what he's saying, and it's not just me. Details please! BTW, to follow up on my big personal thing, the VA is going to send to to school for free but now I don't know what to take (or how to even go to school)
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Nov 13, 2011 07:45
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Maher did have a point with STEM being far more important to society than other degrees. Its STEAM that fuels both technology and the economy in this new digital world.IRQ posted:What really pisses me off is that I really bought into his line of thinking. I have a "useless" undergrad degree too, so I went to grad school, and now I have debt I will probably never get out from under and another degree that would be useful in Maher's world, except I would literally kill myself if I made a life of it. I don't think he's ever considered that aspect of what he's saying, and it's not just me. With the exception of Nursing and possibly Computer Science, all degrees are pretty much bullshit.
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Nov 13, 2011 19:38
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punk rebel ecks posted:Maher did have a point with STEM being far more important to society than other degrees. Its STEAM that fuels both technology and the economy in this new digital world. I agree with this. I am a bit perplexed that you are the only who voiced this point in this forum so far though. Maybe it is analogous to the representation of the 35k STEM graduates versus the 80k art graduates?
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Nov 13, 2011 19:55
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What is it though? Is it that STEM fields aren't getting their fair shake from K-12 so hardly any kids are interested in it? Or is it a natural inclination for most people not to go into those fields? Honestly, everything seems to come down to questioning your educational system.
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Nov 13, 2011 20:36
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IRQ posted:Being older means you benefited from the post-WWII (now apparent) bubble in the american economy and from the period before corporations became or were enabled to become completely amoral during the tail end of the cold war. Not much more. Being older certainly doesn't make someone the 1%, they just got less hosed than those of us who are younger. It's not that those people are necessarily bad, it's that wages haven't kept pace with inflation, that the wealth gap has increased massively, etc. None of that is the fault of older people, but a whole shitload of them don't seem to realize that things have changed. I'm pretty sure if you can be born, marry, have kids, retire and then die in the span of a bubble, it's not really a bubble.
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Nov 13, 2011 20:40
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punk rebel ecks posted:Maher did have a point with STEM being far more important to society than other degrees. Its STEAM that fuels both technology and the economy in this new digital world. Why is this?
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Nov 13, 2011 21:23
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Dudebro posted:What is it though? Is it that STEM fields aren't getting their fair shake from K-12 so hardly any kids are interested in it? Or is it a natural inclination for most people not to go into those fields? Honestly, everything seems to come down to questioning your educational system. The other thing that I've heard, which I'm not sure is actually backed up by statistics, is that mathematically gifted Americans are more likely to go into business and especially finance.
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Nov 13, 2011 21:37
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IRQ posted:gently caress you Bill Maher. "Hurrr liberal arts degrees are worthless poo poo for faggots *gets liberal arts degree, becomes millionaire*, well I mean it's cool if you're awesome like me Yeah... This made me shake my head too. It's also worth noting that theater/visual arts are far from the only impacted majors. Psychology, business, and law as I recall also have too many people in them. A better plan than making GBS threads on degrees you don't like is to simply incentivize math/science/engineering/etc. Doing this will not only get more people into areas that the economy needs but will also benefit the arts crowd by driving down the currently obscene tuitions that I see at art schools today. Also, yes, all school should be free. You should also be free to go back and retrain yourself at any time. gently caress this "one degree only and then you can't get any student aid" bullshit I'm dealing with right now. Edit: Also, Bill has no clue what a real visual artist does for a living. Almost nobody is a big name painter or working for Disney (people who want to get visual arts degrees need to learn this badly). Odds are you end up working for some bullshit corporation doing bullshit work for bullshit pay for some bullshit suit who just needs you to make his bullshit brochure "Asbestos, Not so bad?" look decent enough to mail on a bullshit deadline. That's loving visual arts! Don't feed me this line that it's not really work. 
readingatwork fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Nov 13, 2011 |
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Nov 13, 2011 22:45
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It was brought up a week or three ago that high school should cover the minimum current standards of technology.
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Nov 14, 2011 00:15
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Wooty posted:Being old did not give anyone an advantage. Being older meant they got settled before the corruption hit the fan. Being older and owning your home makes you nowhere near the 1%. Being older means that you have your savings and should be more secure then the young. I think the old in general are at an advantage now. That article did say that the wealth gap between young and old is continually expanding (although not at the rate of the 1 vs 99). Of course there are many old in bad situations now as well. Wooty posted:Almost all of the other vets in the meetings I run are older, Vietnam vets. Many of them are retired and get a VA disability. They are all in the same situation as all of us really, at least they are very like me. It sounds like you're in the limbo period until you reach social security age. Wooty posted:BTW, to follow up on my big personal thing, the VA is going to send to to school for free but now I don't know what to take (or how to even go to school) Here's another example of the old having a benefit. A lot here in the thread are saying college/university should be free. Well, in my area many (or maybe all) junior colleges allow senior citizens to attend and take classes for free. The young do have to pay.
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Nov 14, 2011 00:38
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Nobody ever talks about the quality of graduates though. I've been working in education in Asia for a bit, and from my perspective any time you see a statistic about how China or South Korea is doing better than the US, it's bullshit. Massive grade inflation here is standard practice. No one fails. Universities have a 98% graduation rate. Kids here become fantastic memorize-regurgitate test taking machines but are utterly helpless if you give them a problem that requires any critical thought. I live in Hyundai's manufacturing city and know some engineers there who confirmed it works like this for them too. When Hyundai needs to design a new ship, they hire German, Norwegian, and American engineers to do it. They live here and take care of all the troubleshooting and any redesigns needed. Korean engineers are excellent at making things, but give them something that requires creativity and they're stumped, so they hire us for that. American education is far better than the 16TH IN THE WORLD news stories lead people to believe. The cost is a problem, the quality isn't so much.
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Nov 14, 2011 01:12
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Grand Fromage posted:Nobody ever talks about the quality of graduates though. I've been working in education in Asia for a bit, and from my perspective any time you see a statistic about how China or South Korea is doing better than the US, it's bullshit. Massive grade inflation here is standard practice. No one fails. Universities have a 98% graduation rate. Kids here become fantastic memorize-regurgitate test taking machines but are utterly helpless if you give them a problem that requires any critical thought. Partially true. American education is great... if you are lucky enough to grow up in a nice neighborhood and wealthy enough to get into a decent university. If you are poor and in a lovely neighborhood you are right hosed.
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Nov 14, 2011 01:18
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Wooty posted:It was brought up a week or three ago that high school should cover the minimum current standards of technology. I think some level of programming should be taught to kids at a young age, like starting somewhere in elementary school. It's pretty ridiculous that every device we use is "magic" to most people. Also, incentivizing study in STEM fields, not so sure that's a good idea. You don't want people going into full-on careers because of incentives. I'm not sure that you can really offer enough incentive for someone to study in those fields, do well, and like their career if they don't already without added incentives (to some degree). I think it's more important to have a foundation that isn't based on whatever's being done right now because it's not working as well as it should be. Dudebro fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Nov 14, 2011 |
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Nov 14, 2011 01:19
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readingatwork posted:Partially true. American education is great... if you are lucky enough to grow up in a nice neighborhood and wealthy enough to get into a decent university. If you are poor and in a lovely neighborhood you are right hosed. Poor people getting screwed is a universal truth, sadly. Here, they can't afford private tutoring so they only go to school eight hours a day Monday through Saturday, whereas the rich kids go to school for twelve.
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Nov 14, 2011 01:42
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Zogo posted:I think the old in general are at an advantage now. That article did say that the wealth gap between young and old is continually expanding (although not at the rate of the 1 vs 99). Of course there are many old in bad situations now as well. You keep saying it like being old is VICTORY! They are not defeating anyone or the youth. They are not competing in the war you have imagined. The wealth gap expanding is who's fault? Zogo posted:
I am not in limbo. I want to do something. I want to have a career and have my own retirement on top of the SSI. Social security retirement is over 20 years away. Do you know how old you need to be to retire for full social security benefits? Zogo posted:Here's another example of the old having a benefit. A lot here in the thread are saying college/university should be free. Well, in my area many (or maybe all) junior colleges allow senior citizens to attend and take classes for free. The young do have to pay. I suspect this is just a way to help older people stay active. Keeping seniors active probably saves in the long run. How many older citizens do you think go to college and take advantage of this? Seniors also eat at Denny's cheaper. There is no age war, please stop trying to say there is. Now, war on Christmas...
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Nov 14, 2011 03:50
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Wooty posted:You keep saying it like being old is VICTORY! They are not defeating anyone or the youth. They are not competing in the war you have imagined. I think a lot of it comes down to the older generations voting more than the younger generations. They've been around longer and know the game. AARP is powerful compared to anything the younglings could put up. I'm not saying that the old are actively trying to rape and pillage the younger generation. But that it's merely a byproduct of a system of benefits, pensions and retirement plans. Many senior citizens have secondary and tertiary supplemental health insurance as the younger have none. People getting social security checks while simultaneously raking in cash on a monthly basis from multiple lucrative pensions. Pensions that are now unheard of for any younger person. Ageism does exist. Sometimes benefiting the young and sometimes vice-versa. Wooty posted:I am not in limbo. I want to do something. I want to have a career and have my own retirement on top of the SSI. Social security retirement is over 20 years away. Isn't that kind of the definition of "limbo?" Being in a place where you don't want to be..a state of uncertainty? Yea, I know about social security but you didn't say your age..not that I need to know your exact age. For you the age will be raised I believe. By the time I'm old enough for it I'm envisioning social security being initiated at age 90 and being the equivalent of one McDonald's meal per day. Wooty posted:I suspect this is just a way to help older people stay active. Keeping seniors active probably saves in the long run. How many older citizens do you think go to college and take advantage of this? Seniors also eat at Denny's cheaper. Not a ton of seniors were taking advantage of the program when I was at the college. There were a handful in some of my classes. When I think back one guy was a Vietnam vet.
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