quote:

Gaddafi son needs surgery on gangrenous fingers: doctor

Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam needs surgery to remove gangrenous flesh from a severed thumb and finger which if not treated could make him seriously ill, a doctor who examined him told Reuters on Thursday.

Saif al-Islam has been nursing injuries to his right hand which he says were sustained during a NATO airstrike weeks ago. No further details have been available on the state of his heavily bandaged thumb, index and middle fingers.

"This wound is not in good condition and requires amputation," Andrei Murakhovsky, a Ukraine-born doctor working in Zintan, the town where Saif al-Islam is being held, and who treated him three days ago told Reuters.

"The wound is covered with gangrenous tissue and necrotic tissue," Murakhovsky added.

Fighters from Libya's Western Mountains captured Saif al-Islam in the southern desert on Saturday and flew him to their stronghold town of Zintan, where he is being held pending a handover to the country's provisional government.

Saif al-Islam's middle finger did not require surgery but the two other bandaged digits had been severed and were weeping pus, said Murakhovsky, who was interviewed by Reuters television in English and later by telephone in Russian.

"His index finger has been ripped off at the level of the middle phalange (finger bone), the bones are all shattered ... It's the same thing with the thumb of that hand," he said.

When a picture of Saif al-Islam's bandaged hand was aired, many Libyans thought his captors had cut off his fingers in retribution for televised remarks in which he threatened anti-Gaddafi rebels, pointing and making other hand gestures.

Murakhovsky, however, said the injuries were consistent with "some kind of explosion."

SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES

The surgical intervention required was relatively simple and could be performed in Zintan under local anesthetic, Murakhovsky said, but the town's militiamen were worried someone would try to kill Saif al-Islam if they took him to hospital.

"I would have done it the day before yesterday. It's not so urgent. It's already been like that for a month. But it's preferable that it should be done soon," he said.

Libyan Prime Minister Abdurrahim El-Keib has said Saif al-Islam is receiving the best possible treatment, but for now he is not in the hands of the provisional central government.

Zintan's fighters have said they will hand him over to the provisional government once it is formed. The cabinet was sworn in on Thursday, with the defense minister's post going to the head of Zintan's military council.

Murakhovsky said only a small part of Saif al-Islam's thumb and index finger needed to be removed, and while he did not need to be operated on urgently, if there were no intervention there could be serious consequences.

If left untreated, the gangrenous infection could spread into the bloodstream and lead to osteomyolitis, which Murakhovsky said was "an infection of the bone marrow, which could have an impact on his general condition."

The International Criminal Court has indicted Saif al-Islam for crimes against humanity and issued a warrant for his arrest. Libya, however, says it will not hand him over to the Hague, and the ICC's prosecutor says Tripoli can try him if it wants to.

Saif al-Islam has not been charged in Libya, but ICC Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo said his Libyan counterpart has launched investigations into the same events as the ICC, in which protesters were killed during this year's revolution.

If Libya were to charge him with similar crimes as the ICC, Saif al-Islam would face the death penalty. The maximum sentence the ICC can pass is life in prison.

Libya is also investigating five counts of alleged corruption by Saif al-Islam, Moreno-Ocampo said on Thursday.

Brown Moses posted:

My wife has an uncle who works as a teacher in Turkey, and during the early 80's had to work in the east of Turkey to become a public sector teacher, which even today is the only way to guarantee a stable teaching job with full benefits, even after going through teacher training. In the area he was working there had been a number of teachers who had been visited by members of Kurdish militant groups at their homes and had been shot or beaten.

One night there's a knock on the door, and he opens it to find several serious looking armed young men stood on the door step. Rather than panic, he calmly invited them into the house, and offered them tea, and sat down and had a conversation with them about various topics.

As they finished their tea the young men told him that usually when they knocked on people's doors they started screaming and yelling insults at them so they ended up hitting them or shooting them just to shut them up, and it was nice to be able just to talk to someone. They asked him to be careful what he said to the Kurdish school children, and said good night and left his home never to be seen again.

I think somewhere in that story there's a lesson that can be learnt.

quote:

How will Libya's new Cabinet meet the challenges ahead?

Libya's newly appointed Cabinet faces a tough job. In the space of only a few months it must restore order, draft a new constitution and be ready to lead the country into democratic elections.

Announcing the names of the two dozen men who will join him on the Transitional Executive Board, acting Prime Minister Abdurrahim el-Keib said the new Cabinet represents all Libya.

Hopes for a unified Libya in the future may rest on whether that is true. So does the line-up offer all the country's factions, tribes and regions a say -- and if not, how might those excluded react?

Analysts give a mixed response to the Cabinet's makeup, which was approved by the National Transitional Council later than expected Tuesday after hours of wrangling.

Its members include as interim defense minister Col. Osama Juwaili, who is the head of the Zintan brigade that on Saturday captured Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, son of the deposed and slain strongman Moammar Gadhafi.
Winning Libyan hearts and minds
Life returning to normal in Libya
Free to read in Libya

El-Keib also named two deputy prime ministers, Mustafa Abushagur and Omar Abdalla Abdelkarim, while the role of finance minister went to Hassan Zeglam, and Ashoor Ben Khail becomes foreign minister.

Omar Ashour, director of Middle East studies at the University of Exeter and a visiting fellow at the Brookings Doha Center, said the new government was largely made up of technocrats rather than political figures.

Its makeup suggested it would tend to accept requests made by the West, he told CNN from Egypt.

However, Libya's Islamists are the biggest losers and "have the capacity to cause some trouble," he said.

Those factions left out of the Cabinet may want to send a message that they cannot be bypassed in this way -- and to remind the government that they have support on the ground from armed militias, Ashour said.

In a country flooded with weapons, the stakes are high for the interim government to win acceptance.

Currently, regional militias hold sway, with some conflicts erupting between rival groups. The hope is that the new government can include many of the militia fighters in a unified military, while also disarming others and creating jobs for them.

Mansour El-Kikhia, an academic from the eastern city of Benghazi who is a professor and chairman of the Department of Political Science and Geography at the University of Texas, San Antonio, says factions in the east of Libya are already showing signs of unhappiness.

Much of the Cabinet is composed of people from the western part of Libya, he said, leading those in the east -- where some of the heaviest fighting against Gadhafi's forces took place in cities including Benghazi and Tobruk -- to feel left out.

As the North African nation continues to reshape itself following the end of Moammar Gadhafi's 42-year rule, those regional divisions could prove key to future stability.

"Ultimately the new government will set the constitutional framework and there's lots of pressures on them to develop a real state-wide, federal system," El-Kikhia said.

"But what I see happening is that the new Cabinet will not go in that direction because it won't serve it to go in that direction -- it will reconstitute the power (base) in Tripoli."

People in the east may accept that Tripoli, in the west, is the nation's capital but they still want to see more power shared with the rest of the country, he said.

He also warns of signs of cronyism in the new Cabinet, with some positions going to those with links to the NTC and new prime minister.

While it is too early to tell what kind of system of governance the interim government will bring in, it is likely to cooperate with Western nations because many of its members are Western-educated or have lived there, he said.

He sees Libya looking to build closer ties in future with Europe and to a lesser degree the United States, rather than with neighbors such as Chad and Niger, with whom it has a more difficult relationship.

This is particularly true in terms of the economy, El-Kikhia said. "The government is going to continue its relationship with the West, with the Europeans, because they need to sell their oil and get their economy back on track," he said.

At the same time, he said, the new government would want to turn its back on Gadhafi's system of tribalism, which destabilized the country, or the actions that turned it into a "pariah state." Rather, Libya would likely seek a period off the center-stage as it rebuilds after 40 years of turmoil, he said.

David Pollock, a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and former senior adviser Middle East at the U.S. State Department, sees signs for hope in the Cabinet's composition, although he acknowledges it is still a work in progress.

"It does seem that they are trying very hard to make this inclusive," he said. That could be a double-edged sword, however, as it means they will have to find a way for rival groups to get along and work together, he added.

He views the lower profile of the more extreme Islamist figures, such as Abdul Hakim Belhaj, who seized control as the military commander of Tripoli in the summer, as a good portent.

El-Keib was picked as a technocratic figure and has formed his Cabinet in much the same mold, avoiding strong identification with a particular movement or faction, and appointing people with expertise, Pollock said.

He also sees positive signs in the fact that the Cabinet shows a balance in favor of those who have lived in Libya all or most of the time, rather than those who have returned from exile, although he too warns that the government should be wary of a regional skew towards western Libya.

"That was a major, major weakness of Gadhafi, to have alienated Benghazi and in effect to have allowed the growth of two parallel societies, one of which was really trampled underfoot," Pollock said. It will be key for the new government to spread the country's wealth, much of which is concentrated in the west, towards the east as the economy develops so that everyone feels the benefit of greater prosperity, he said.

At the same time, outside the sphere of politics, there are indications that the country is faring better than even a few weeks ago in terms of a reduction in lawlessness and factional skirmishes, Pollock said.

"In practical terms they are in better control and there are some signs that ... on the economic front they are trying to get their house in order, to appoint experienced people to deal with the oil and finance sector," he said.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo, chief prosecutor for the International Criminal Court, painted a similar picture, speaking to CNN from Tripoli, where he has been discussing the trial of Gadhafi's captured son, Saif al-Islam.

"There is no police system, there is no security system -- however there is no problem, there is no crime, there is no violence here, because they are so happy and proud that they are doing things that they don't know how to do," he said of the Libyans.

Reaction to the new Cabinet from world leaders was also positive Wednesday.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said its formation was "a significant step in Libya's transition to a true democracy that is inclusive and representative of all Libyans."

The United States looked forward to working with the interim government to meet challenges including protecting Libyans' rights, bringing militias under control, ensuring a functioning government and preparing for the transition to an elected government, she said.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon also pledged continuing support for the new Cabinet in a statement Wednesday.

He wished it "every success in addressing the numerous challenges facing Libya in this transitional period, including the crucial issues of national reconciliation, public security, human rights protection, and the resumption of basic services to the Libyan people," he said.

Brown Moses posted:

I started to drink tea just so I could accept the endless offers of tea when I'm in Turkey, as refusal seems to confuse people.

Barry the Sprout posted:

One thing I had learn was to take my tea black and sweet, otherwise this lends itself to further confusion.

quote:

Egyptian Social Democratic Party wants SCAF out before elections

The Egyptian Social Democratic Party has pulled out of next week's parliamentary elections and demanded a swift transfer of power from the ruling military council.

In a statement released today, the party said that Egypt is currently going through a dangerous phase because the military council insists on monopolising power.

The party also described the upcoming elections, set for 28 November, as nothing more than a “show.”

“We refuse to participate in this gamble of lives and the future of this nation and to partake in this show of elections, which will divert attention away from the legitimate demands of the revolutionaries,” the party's statement read.

The party blamed the country’s various political forces and their inability to reach a consensus on the make up of a civil council to govern in the interim and meet the demands of revolutionaries.

“After nine months it is clear to everyone that the military council is leading the country into a catastrophe and the blood flowing now in Tahrir Square is just the latest atrocity in a series of crimes and mistakes made by the council,” the statement said. “The last few days have proven to us that the upcoming elections will not be free or safe amidst this security vacuum and unprecedented tension as a result of the Ministry of Interior forces and military police repressing the citizens in Tahrir Square and in other governorates.”

The statement went on to say that the military council are not able to offer sufficient guarantees that the elections will be transparent. Consequently, "we cannot entrust the military council to administer these elections where citizens can freely choose who represents them.”

According to the party, transparent elections can only be conducted if a National Salvation government is set up with the approval of Egypt's political factions, including Islamists, liberals, leftists and nationalists. The National Salvation government, the party says, should assist the military council administer the transitional period and supervise the upcoming elections. They also stressed that they put they would like potential presidential candidates Mohamed ElBaradei and Abdel Moneim Aboul-Fotouh tasked with forming such a government.

“Our party wants the elections to be held as soon as possible... but we don’t want to put the country though unsuccessful elections or have its results questioned because of [vote] rigging and violence.”

Earlier in the week, the party was heavily criticised for meeting with the military's chief-of-staff Sami Anan while police forces were attacking protesters around the country.

quote:

Middle East analyst Joseph Kechichian, speaking to Al Jazeera this morning, said he believed the Muslim Brotherhood had made a "tactical mistake of the grandest proportions" by "siding with the military against the protesters" in Tahrir Square.

Though the Brotherhood has been riven by internal divisions on the issue, it has publicly declared it will not participate in the demonstrations and today has scheduled a separate, unrelated march connected to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, at the same time that activists have called for another "million-man march" in Cairo.

The Brotherhood, like the military, wants parliament elections held on time on Monday. Its political wing, the Freedom and Justice Party, is widely predicted to win a large plurality or majority of the lower house.

The Brotherhood did issue a statement on Thursday, saying: "Had we been out to secure our own interests and reap popularity on the political street, going down to Tahrir Square would have been just the way to do that. But we refrained from rash action."

quote:

Chart: Who stands where in Egypt, v2



I've updated my chart from a few days ago to reflect the narrowing of possible positions (from 5 to 3) and the leftward drift of most parties and personalities. At this point, of the major parties only the Muslim Brothers and al-Wafd are not officially backing the protests as far as I can tell. As always, comments, corrections and feedback appreciated. This chart does not show positions on elections — again, for now no party has called for their cancellation (although some revolutionary groups and Mohamed ElBaradei are suggesting an alternative transition plan) and the idea of postponment has only been floated.

quote:

As crowds in Tahrir Square begin to swell, Jack Shenker in Cairo, provides a quick guide to the various rallies planned today:

quote:

Tahrir Square is already filling up in advance of Friday prayers, but numbers will swell even more in the early afternoon with the arrival of massive marches from all corners of the city.

There are rallies planned in Omraneya and Haram (near the pyramids), Imbaba (an informal neighbourhood to the north-west), Mohandiseen (a middle-class suburb in Giza) and Zamalek (an island in the Nile), all of which are set to converge in Dokki, a neighbourhood just to the west of the Nile featuring a main road that runs straight across the river and into Tahrir.

There's also talk of a workers' march down Qasr el-Aini street (to the south of Tahrir) and several other small demonstrations which aim to converge on the central plaza.

On top of all that there is reportedly a planned march by the Muslim Brotherhood, as well as a pro-Scaf rally in the north-eastern neighbourhood of Abbesaya (which is unlikely to be allowed to approach Tahrir). We have Guardian journalists at three different locations ready to report on developments as they unfold, on a day when Tahrir looks set to welcome its biggest crowd since the toppling of Mubarak in February.

quote:

A military official in Cairo has given shocking response to the writer Mona Eltahawy's accusations of sexual assault.

The New York Times says Islam Jaffar came into contact with Eltahawy while she was in detention.

He told the paper:

quote:

She complained to me that she was beaten and sexually assaulted by Central Security Forces But what did she expect would happen? She was in the middle of the streets, in the midst of clashes, with no press card or form of ID. The press center had not given her permission to be in the streets as a journalist. The country is in a sensitive situation. We are under threat. She could be a spy for all we know.

The Arabist by way of Brown Moses posted:

This chart does not show positions on elections — again, for now no party has called for their cancellation (although some revolutionary groups and Mohamed ElBaradei are suggesting an alternative transition plan) and the idea of postponment has only been floated.

Col. Islam Jaffar posted:

She complained to me that she was beaten and sexually assaulted by Central Security Forces But what did she expect would happen? She was in the middle of the streets, in the midst of clashes, with no press card or form of ID. The press center had not given her permission to be in the streets as a journalist. The country is in a sensitive situation. We are under threat. She could be a spy for all we know.

quote:

Arab League: Syria ignores observer deadline

A senior Arab League diplomat says Syria has ignored a deadline to allow an observer mission into the country or face economic sanctions.

The diplomat says the Friday afternoon deadline passed with no word from Damascus. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

The 22-nation bloc had given Syria 24 hours to agree to the observer mission, saying it would meet to decide on punishing measures that could include a freeze on financial dealings and assets if the deadline was missed.

Syria is the scene of the deadliest crackdown against the Arab Spring's eruption of protests and international pressure has been mounting on President Bashar Assad to stop the bloodshed.

Brown Moses posted:

Now what?

annatar posted:

Its really interesting to me that the Gulf absolutists think they can get on better with social democrats and islamic democrats than the current crop of autocrats.

Brown Moses posted:

"She was asking for it!"

annatar posted:

Its really interesting to me that the Gulf absolutists think they can get on better with social democrats and islamic democrats than the current crop of autocrats.

Brown Moses posted:

Ultras Lazio posted:

As if THAT justifies repeated, aggravated sexual harassments to female journalists.

From what I know, sexual harassment is rife in Egypt.

quote:

I called MOI for response to @monaeltahawy assault allegations. "How many kids does she have because of that?” said laughing media officer.

Jut posted:

This picture isn't recent, I've seen it before.

Brown Moses posted:

It gets worse if you can believe it, this was just tweeted by Matt McBradly of the Wall Street Journal


It's like they want people to hate them.

quote:

I'm at the pro-SCAF rally in Abbasiya. Seems like a rowdy crowd.
In pro-SCAF rally here in Abbasiya, they're chanting "al-shaab yoreed isqat al tahrir."
Now they're chanting: "Where is al jazeera? #Egypt's ppl are here.
It looks like #Egypt finally has a far-right nationalist movement to call its own.
Pro-SCAF protesters now chanting "they're 1 million, we're 80 million." Wow, these guys definitely need some help in the chant dept.
Pro-SCAF protesters now chanting: "Egypt, Egypt, Egypt..." They're clearly running out of ideas.
At pro-SCAF rally, military helicopter passes by, crowd breaks out into deafening applause, with everyone waving egyptian flags.
This is one of the most purely reactionary protests I've ever seen.
Wow, was just kicked out of pro-SCAF rally in Abbasiya. Crowd surrounded me & ushered me out. 2 guys told me never to come back
At pro-SCAF rally, asked cpl ppl why they dont like Baradei. They went berserk. One guy said he'd die before letting Baradei be PM
One lady started shouting, "he's not egyptian, he's not egyptian." Crowd came. They started chanting pro-army slogans in my face
At pro-SCAF rally, tried to engage w- protesters. My arabic is accented, so aroused their suspicion. One guy called me "ameel" (spy)
They got really angry when I brought up Baradei's name. They thought I was a Baradei supporter or something.
Pro-SCAF rally I was just at was genuinely frightening, even before I got kicked out. 1 of more revolting displays of nationalism I've seen
Amount of anger and resentment and pure reactionary rage I saw at pro-SCAF rally was downright scary. Very troubling development for #Egypt
Always assumed #Egypt would muddle through. But if there's large segment of public which hates their fellow Egyptians, then I don't know.
I'm in Zamalek police station now. Taxi driver stopped the car, grabbed me & told them that I'm up to no good. They're taking my info.
I made mistake of taking a cab right from the pro-SCAF rally, and complained abt it to driver. He didn't believe I was arab, I guess.
Police looked into my bag and saw a US passport, a recorder & Brotherhood pamphlets. Just abt worst combination possible.

Brown Moses posted:

Google Image search didn't come up with anything, do you remember when?
[edit] It came from this user

Brown Moses posted:

These are the three idiot American students released yesterday


Do any Cairo goons recognise them?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/luke-gates-american-student-arrested-in-cairo-wrote-on-twitter-of-wanting-to-die-in-egypt/2011/11/22/gIQA61Y3kN_blog.html posted:

Luke Gates, of the three American students from the American University in Cairo who was arrested and paraded on state television Tuesday, wrote often on his Twitter account of his experiences in Tahrir Square and of wanting to die in the country. Gates is a student at Indiana University on the semester abroad program in Cairo.


Two days ago, Gates wrote on Twitter that he threw rocks in the square, and Monday he wrote that a part of his ear was missing after being in the square with rubber bullets.

“I just don’t want to feel anymore,” he wrote Saturday, just before heading to the square.

The-Mole posted:

Ironically that's basically why they exist. To be a deliberate scapegoat.

quote:

The European Union has blocked the release of a documentary on Afghan women who are in jail for so-called "moral crimes".

The EU says it decided to withdraw the film - which it commissioned and paid for - because of "very real concerns for the safety of the women portrayed".

However, human rights workers say the injustice in the Afghan judicial system should be exposed.

Half of Afghanistan's women prisoners are inmates for "zina" or moral crimes.

A statement from the EU's Kabul delegation said the welfare of the women was the paramount consideration in its decision.

No official from the delegation was prepared to be interviewed about the film.

No new dawn

Some of the women convicted of "zina" are guilty of nothing more than running away from forced marriages or violent husbands.

Human rights activists say hundreds of those behind bars are victims of domestic violence.

Amnesty International says it is important to "lift the lid on one of Afghanistan's most shameful judicial practices".

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
You hear the story again and again of women going to the police and asking for help and ending up in prison instead”
End Quote
Heather Barr

Human Rights Watch

The documentary told the story of a 19-year-old prisoner called Gulnaz.

After she was raped, she was charged with adultery. Her baby girl, born following the rape, is serving her sentence with her.

"At first my sentence was two years," Gulnaz said, as her baby coughed in her arms. "When I appealed it became 12 years. I didn't do anything. Why should I be sentenced for so long?"

Stories like hers are tragically typical, according to Heather Barr, of Human Rights Watch, who is carrying out research among Afghan female prisoners.

"It would be reassuring to think that the stories told in this film represent aberrations or extreme case," she said. "Unfortunately that couldn't be further from the truth."

She has interviewed many women behind bars, who were victims twice over - abused by their husbands, or relatives, and then by those who were supposed to protect them.

"You hear the story again and again of women going to the police and asking for help and ending up in prison instead," Ms Barr said.

A decade after the Taliban were overthrown, Afghan women are still waiting for justice, campaigners say.

Ms Barr said: "It's very important that people understand that there are these horrific stories that are happening now - 10 years after the fall of the Taliban government, 10 years after what was supposed to be a new dawn for Afghan women."

For many that new dawn has not come, but for Gulnaz there is now the hope of freedom.

Her name is on a list of women to be pardoned, according to a prison official, but as she has no lawyer, the paperwork has yet to be processed.

Gulnaz's pardon may be in the works because she has agreed - after 18 months of resisting - to marry her rapist.

"I need my daughter to have a father," she said.

Ultras Lazio posted:

I have a photo I wish I could post here (if I knew how to...) of a group of totally veiled women with cards and banners etc participating in a protest...all held together by a rope around them and "guided" around by a male guardian.
I have challenged that photo but lost miserably, apparently that DOES happen.

I am not going to harp around "cultural differences" but I did see a lovely male attitude even in modern Morocco (forget what I heard and seen elsewhere)...and no, before any sofa comfortable cultural relativist tells me that "these things happen in the west too"...no...no, they don't.
If you did 50% of what I have seen in Rabat, the capital of Morocco, you'd get arrested in minutes here in the UK. Minutes.

I know it's not for this thread and I know it's not even a fair comparison but you don't know how idiotic some feminist threads sound like to me when the reality of women in "other cultures" is so, so bad.
Not long ago a EU sponsored documentary on women in Afghanistan was pulled off at the last minute by the EU themselves because of its content.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15678935


I repeat...
...BECAUSE SHE HAS AGREED TO MARRY HER RAPIST.

Ultras Lazio posted:

Abuse

The-Mole posted:

Actually I do understand. And you're preaching to the choir.

Bisse posted:

So what is the reason the SCAF appointed Kamal al-Ganzuri as Egypt's new PM? It seems kind of mind-boggling that in the current situation they would appoint someone who worked under Mubarak, but i'm not more informed than whatever is posted on CNN and AJE.

quote:

The Making of a Ghost Town

TAWARGHA, Libya, Nov 25, 2011 (IPS) - Omar Embarka crumbles when she sees the pictures of the Libyan city where she was born and lived until two months ago. "We will be back in Tawargha one day," the 25-year-old repeats to herself. The images say otherwise.

Tawargha had been Muammar Gaddafi’s headquarters during the terrible two-month siege of the rebel enclave of nearby Misrata,187 km southeast of capital Tripoli. Once a vibrant city of 30,000 inhabitants, the vast majority of them black, Tawargha has turned into a huge "supermarket" where families from nearby Misrata load their vehicles with the spoils of looting, and militias torch the houses, probably to prevent Omar Embarka and others like her from returning some day. Today, Tawargha - "green island" in the Amazigh language - is just a ghost town in the middle of the Libyan desert.

Tawarghans who survived the war gather today at refugee camps like the one in Fallah, a district south of Tripoli. Embarka belongs to one of the hundred families who have found refuge in the former barracks which housed the workers of a Turkish construction company. The broken voices echoing off the corrugated iron walls help reconstruct one of the missing pieces in the Libyan war’s puzzle.

"When the war started in February, many Tawarghans living in Misrata came back home," recalls Embarka. "Gaddafi had turned our city into a stronghold from which they led the assault against Misrata and, overnight, there were almost as many soldiers as civilians," she says.

Embarka, who was a medical student, volunteered at the hospital in Tawargha to help in the surgical department. "In early summer, supplies began to fail; food, medicines ... we didn't even have anaesthesia for the amputations. We suffered heavy shelling almost all the time and our last five doctors, all of them from North Korea, left in July," says this young woman, who still volunteers at the camp’s humble medical centre.

Bashir Youssef will never forget the lack of medical care. He might have been a father in July had he been able to take his pregnant wife to the hospital in Hisha - 80 km south of Tawargha.

"Gaddafi’s soldiers had blocked the way out of Tawargha and they did not let us go. They said it was for our own safety," remembers this former taxi driver, today without a vehicle or a city to drive it around in.

The situation in Tawargha was becoming increasingly unbearable for everybody.

The final assault over Tawargha started "officially" on Aug. 10, when NATO aircraft "hit three Command and Control Nodes and two Military Storage Facilities In the vicinity of Tawargha," according to the military coalition’s press release. However, witnesses from this refugee camp and the one in Tarik Matar, five kilometres south of Tripoli, say that the NATO attacks started much earlier, and that even the city centre was pounded.

On Aug. 12, Tawargha shifted from chaos to a nightmare that everybody was struggling to leave behind.

"People tried to stop our car, begging us to let them inside. We were eight in the car and we couldn’t take anybody else with us," recalls Ahmed Farthini, a former resident of Tawargha now living in Fallah refugee camp.

Many of his neighbours fled on foot. Mohammed Jibril walked across the desert for two days until he reached Hisha. The 28-year-old says he’ll never forget that journey.

"I think that there were more than 300. Many fell down due to exhaustion and dehydration, but I could not do anything for them. It was a matter of sheer survival," says Jibril. He wonders whether the families of those who died in the desert ever got back the bodies.

Hisha, a little town halfway between Misrata and Sirte, became a safe haven for many refugees until it was also attacked. The attacks would continue towards the east, all the way down to Gaddafi’s hometown of Sirte.

"We were lucky enough to have relatives in Sirte so we could all stay with them," says Ahmad Wail. "But many of the refugees were told that their wives and children would be hosted at the local school only if they (the men) jumped into a truck bound for Brega, 250 km southwest of Benghazi, the rebel capital, and fight over there."

But Brega would also fall soon afterwards. Some Tawarghans would then leave for Sirte, where many would die during the massive obliteration of the town. The luckiest ones ended up in rebel-controlled Tripoli.

"When we arrived in Tripoli," recalls Embarka, "we were 60 living in a flat for a whole month. The men wouldn’t go out unless it was strictly necessary and we women never left the apartment. Many chose to stay on the beach because Tripoli is a very dangerous city for us." Embarka refers to the terrible harassment that the black population suffered in Tripoli over the last months.

On Sep. 4, Human Rights Watch warned that "the widespread arbitrary arrests and frequent abuse have created a grave sense of fear among the city’s African population". Amnesty International also published several reports in this regard, many of which point to worrying cases like that of a patient from Tawargha who was taken from Tripoli’s Central Hospital to be "interrogated in Misrata."

For the time being, the National Transitional Council of Libya – also known by its French acronym CNT – has repeatedly stated that "any abuse coming from whatever side should be thoroughly investigated." However, recent statements by Mahmud Jibril, former prime minister of the Council, have caused even deeper concern among the refugees.

Jibril reportedly told a public meeting at Misrata town hall: "Regarding Tawargha, my own viewpoint is that nobody has the right to interfere in this matter except the people of Misrata."

At the Tarik Matar refugee camp, Mohammed Mabrouk plays a video taken last on Nov. 1, in which a group of militias are dragging seven young men outside the camp.

Abdullah Tarhuni, a commander from Musa Binuser - one of the six militias allegedly involved in the incident - refuses to comment on the issue, but answers without hesitation when asked about a hypothetical return of the refugees to Tawargha: "Tawargha no longer exists. In the future it will be called ‘New Misrata’."

Ultras Lazio posted:

I apologize, I didn't mean to sound like I was rebutting you, I just get very frustrated on these issues specifically.

Look at this and tell me what it does to your blood...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBl2lWkSa6Y

just look at it again, look at her face...it's "small potatoes" comparing to other stuff but it's just an indication that even if educated and famous people do that, imagine just what "culture" lays behind.

I'll tell you a secret nobody in my real life knows, in the Arab world, when I hire for the franchisees, I almost exclusively hire women...why? Because I want them to earn....why? Because I want them to have enough money to be able to say go gently caress yourself.

ThePutty posted:

Could this be part of the many dictatorships and monarchies and their repression and traditional views, or does it go deeper than that?

az jan jananam posted:

The idea that patriarchal views in the Middle East stem from repressive dictatorships is pretty facile and reductionist to me. It seems to imply that there is a huge undercurrent of emancipatory thought that is being constantly repressed from above, when if you look at plenty of places like Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Iran, etc, we have seen cases of authoritarian figures have forwarded women's freedoms with a degree of brutality, and the populist reaction has been generally reactionary and conservative. Anti-Western sentiment doesn't really explain much at all; Arab ideologies in the past have been anti-Western without being regressive vis-a-vis women. The only country in the entire MENA region where absolute gender equality is a serious issue that absolutely cannot be touched (as of now) is Tunisia and possibly Morocco. The great deal of these social phenomena happen because they have the consent of their people.

Brown Moses posted:

These are the three idiot American students released yesterday


Do any Cairo goons recognise them?

Ultras Lazio posted:

Very, very true...and simply by following this reasoning to its obvious conclusion, any honest debater would evenctually arrive to the elephant in the room.

There is an elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about and it is from that elephant that these attitudes stem from.

The middle-east and the muslim world in general will not find peace until it tackles, constructively, the elephant in the room.