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I spent the weekend cleaning up my first draft. I think I have most of the issues worked out. Everything in present tense. Reworked and tightened up some of the dialog, Anybody want to give it a read and give me feedback? It is 113 pages long.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:27
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Sporadic posted:I spent the weekend cleaning up my first draft. I think I have most of the issues worked out. Everything in present tense. Reworked and tightened up some of the dialog, For what little it's worth, my advice is to put it in a drawer for a month and work on something else. Give it another look for yourself with fresh eyes, make notes, do your rewrite, and then ask for beta-reads. It's what I'm comfortable with as long as I'm working on spec; I want to make sure I take my stuff as far as I can on my own before I show it to people. To me, it's a matter of making the best possible first impression, and I've always felt that scripts that looked good to me after I finished, don't look so good after a month. You may disagree (as disingenuous as it may come off); you may already feel that you've taken it as far as can go on your own. That's fine, I just wanted to offer an alternate approach.
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Nov 7, 2011 05:48
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Sporadic posted:Anybody want to give it a read and give me feedback? It is 113 pages long. If I can get through 180 pages of rambling drunkenness I can get through whatever the hell this is. EMAIL REDACTED BEEP BOOP Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 06:04
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DivisionPost posted:For what little it's worth, my advice is to put it in a drawer for a month and work on something else. Give it another look for yourself with fresh eyes, make notes, do your rewrite, and then ask for beta-reads. I appreciate the advice. I will definitely do that in the future once I feel like I have a handle on this. About halfway through this script, I decided I would only give it three drafts before moving on to my next script. A second draft where I would try to clean it up as much as I could and a third draft based off of the feedback of anybody from this thread who was willing to give a read. I don't want to be one of those guys who spends years trying to perfect one script. I want to keep trying to improve my skills and maintain forward motion. I don't think I have taken it as far as I can (-edit I'm sure there are some issues, one I'm semi-sure about is how to format regarding different rooms in one building) but I'm so far in, I can't tell what is a legitimate issue or what is me overanalysing the whole thing. I need a fresh pair of eyes that aren't my own. Magic Hate Ball posted:If I can get through 180 pages of rambling drunkenness I can get through whatever the hell this is. I knew you would  Email sent. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Nov 7, 2011 |
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Nov 7, 2011 06:31
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Can somebody recommend me a good book or in-depth article on story structure?
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Nov 12, 2011 04:47
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Sporadic posted:Can somebody recommend me a good book or in-depth article on story structure? A friend of mine that I'm working on a screenplay with wanted to use a five-act structure, and he sent me a few articles to clue me in. One of them was this blog post from a guy who calls himself FILM CRITIC HULK: http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/hulk-presents-the-myth-of-3-act-structure/ I don't know how you'll respond to the gimmick (which involves typing in all caps), but I personally laughed my rear end off at a couple of parts and learned a lot, too. If you want a drier, simpler description of the five act structure, here you go. Also, though I haven't finished it, I enjoyed what I've read of The Sequence Approach.
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Nov 12, 2011 04:58
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DivisionPost posted:Also, though I haven't finished it, I enjoyed what I've read of The Sequence Approach. This guy is the head of screenwriting at my college - and yeah it's a pretty good approach, especially for action/adventure type fare.
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Nov 12, 2011 11:36
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Channel 101 has my personal favorite, but whatever works for you. Also, download the Acceptable TV tutorials from iTunes (for FREE! It's the first one) here. Jack Black teaches you story structure while dressed as a wizard! How cool is that?
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Nov 12, 2011 16:17
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It's a pretty good book, and unlike a lot of these books, the author is forthright about what his approach is good for (basic stories about a hero facing obstacles) and what it isn't (stories with lots of interlocking subplots). It's pretty dry, though - he writes about things very abstractly, and doesn't offer a lot of examples or thorough explanations. It's nice that it's not padded, but it's sometimes a little too spare.
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Nov 12, 2011 20:38
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Sporadic, I read your script. It's far from the worst I've read but it does have some major flaws. One is that it's too long for being so simple. There are only a handful of real "events", and each one gets a big fat long beat. There's just not enough stuff, too little of what happens on-screen is unimportant or aimless, so condense like hell. I can't imagine this script being longer than 80 or 90 minutes in its current state. You also need to work on your dialogue and identifying your characters. Everyone sounds kind of the same, even with dialects, because they're all saying things basically the same way. They just state things. When people talk they rarely do so directly and they rarely do so in the same way. For example, think of how differently various people in your life might tell you they think you're getting fat, how directly or indirectly they'd do it, the kinds of words they'd use. There's little variation in your character voices and it makes everything really antiseptic. There are suggestions that Katherine could be an interesting, if volatile character but her outbursts come so rarely in between long passages of dry, dry dialogue. In my notepad I have "'liberal fagfest' loooool" written down because it's emblematic of ear-grabbing dialogue and the kind of thing that hints at greater depth and interest in the character that mostly goes ignored. This kind of goes with the script's length but you've got odd pacing. You don't get to your first major conflict until almost an hour in (page 57), before that it's a long, relatively uneventful descent into whoredom. I can sum up your first hour really quick: Katherine's husband dies. Looking for money, she takes up a job as a hotel maid, but the work is too strenuous. She gets a call from a pimp and reluctantly agrees to work for him. The first couple days are awkward but the cashflow is good. She's a hit with the johns and her pimp decides to double her workload. She doesn't want to, and they get into a fight. That's like five beats and three major actions which is way, way too few. I like that you're trying to approach the economic struggle and such but you're not really hitting the mark. Katherine's journey is almost entirely solitary - she meets the same two people over and over again (except for the philosophical meth addict and her son, who provide the script's most engaging scenes) - but the effects of the recession are arguably most interesting on a social level. People sometimes go to great lengths to hide the depths of their desperation. Also, you don't use a lot of contractions, which is okay in descriptions and text but weird in dialogue. Most people wouldn't say, for example, "It is no problem" unless there's emphasis on "no". There's a lot of that in the script. "If you are busy", "It is too hot out here", "I told you I would call you back", etc.
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Nov 13, 2011 01:40
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I'm trying to write my first screenplay but my biggest trouble so far is focusing on one project and finishing it through. I get a great idea, add it to my growing collection of notes, start fleshing it out, and then when working on an outline I just go "No, that's stupid" and throw the whole thing out the window. I know I should stop that reflex because more than anything I need to plow through and write a real, complete screenplay. Has anyone else been in the habit of doing this?
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Nov 13, 2011 03:19
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I have the same problem. It is seriously frustrating for me, I still haven't found a way to overcome it.
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Nov 13, 2011 03:23
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Tell it to someone as a story. If you're excited while telling it, you'll be excited while writing it. If you're "Mehhhh" and can't figure out what you liked, then you don't even have to start.
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Nov 13, 2011 10:29
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One of the best ways to stay on track is to have the framework written down before you start your screenplay. I make a very simple skeleton of plot points before I start the actual screenplay. It's loose and always changes but it helps keep moving you forward. That way if I am stuck at a part that I am not so happy about, I can power through it and move on. Future drafts will correct those flaws. Always, always, have an ending before you start, it doesn't have to be set in stone but it's good have a goal. If you don't know how it is going to end you may end up wandering too much or just giving up. Also, in the simplest of terms, your ending is your point; if you don't have a point, you don't have a film.
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Nov 14, 2011 18:09
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Finishing a screenplay is a skill in itself, so don't worry too much that you're struggling right now. What's good to remember is that the first draft you write is pretty much always going to look terrible when you look back on it. Sure, there might be things you'll keep, but once you've done a couple of drafts you'll hate the first one. As for realising an idea is stupid: good! I run on the assumption that 90% of my ideas are stupid: it's finding the small percentage which are good, and then teasing out the most interesting story from that idea which is the real skill. Once you've done that then you're likely to meet Golden Bee's "am I excited" test.
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Nov 15, 2011 11:48
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Doug TenNapel just called me a oval office and a hippie. This ironically put me in the best mood.
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Nov 16, 2011 01:23
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Griff M. posted:Doug TenNapel just called me a oval office and a hippie. This ironically put me in the best mood. I wasn't fond of his preachy Christian stuff in Creature Tech. What did you do?
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Nov 16, 2011 01:39
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"Pot is an assault on life." I said it wasn't. To be fair, I'm a pinko commie  Another one of my favorites (paraphrasing from memory): "The only time a liberal wants to see a woman wear a dress is if the woman used to be a man" - Doug Tennapel
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Nov 16, 2011 02:05
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Sounds like he's going a bit Frank Miller.
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Nov 16, 2011 02:23
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Frank Miller posted:pack of louts, thieves, and rapists Why did I read that? I used to like that guy.
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Nov 16, 2011 02:29
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Sporadic, I read your script. It's far from the worst I've read but it does have some major flaws. Your post is exactly why I wanted somebody to read my script. It's interesting to see how you interpreted it coming in completely dark. Note: What's next isn't me shrugging off what you think. Louis C.K said it best in an interview talking about helping friends edit TV shows/movies, where they give a massive  response to his suggestion to do something different because he didn't get it. "Well, as long as you are sitting next to every viewer, giving that explanation, then go ahead and cut it that way". You are right there are major flaws if you thought that too much of what was in it was aimless or pointless. Everything had a point. I must have failed to convey them. (Admittedly some of it is a point that only a person like SuperMechaGodzilla would pick up) I'm pretty surprised you thought there was only 80-90 minutes of content. I actually started panicking near the end (to the point where I think I hurt the ending by wrapping it up so quickly [although I always wanted her to kill him right out of the blue as he was talking]) because I thought even though I was under the 120 mark, that it would take 120 minutes or more to portray everything I had written. The bad thing of writing a sentence or two which tells you everything but if acted out would have to be given more time to hit the mark. The pacing issue can directly be traced back to way I worked. Besides, what I thought would be, the bare-bones of the first third of the story drawn out on my white board, I came up with it on the fly. Some of it was intentional. From the email I sent you with the script "Bonus points if you can name the movie that gave me the seed idea to write this (although I only watched a piece of it on TCM while flipping channels at three in the morning)". That movie was Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles. When I watched part of it, I thought it was an extremely fascinating idea. Fascinating but tedious. I tried to take the same ideas (well, what I got out of it) and remove the tedium (which I found out later, when trying to find the name of the movie, that the tedium was the whole point but...). Repetition for the character but not for the audience. Same with Katherine. The first thing we see is her receiving the news that her husband died. She tries to put up a front and soldier on until the housekeeping job. The job grinds her down to nothing. I wanted her to be cold and distant. To bottle everything up until she explodes (at the most minor thing, the potatoes in her frozen dinner still being frozen). After the first time, she only explodes when pushed by other characters. She shows signs of life after she lets that emotion out after her first sex job but the game quickly snuffs it out. That was the main thing I was interested in exploring. Not economic struggle or the effects of the recession but dehumanization, being that distant, and the power games we play. Only time I thought about modern times was when she was looking for a job and when Jamal wanted her to work more for less or not work at all when she was hurt. I'm glad you dug the Drunk Man scenes. Those were my favorite to write and they felt like magic when they appeared out of nowhere while I was writing. The son, on the other hand, I hated him and his final scene was basically me going "oh poo poo, I forgot about the son...how can I wrap that up as quickly as possible and keep him out" You have no idea how close I was to dropping the whole "liberal fagfest" part of her outburst for the second draft. It comes out of nowhere but I figured that alot of older people have that conservative craziness boiling under the surface and what would be the worst thing she could say to her son going to back to college. You are dead on with the contractions in dialogue. When I read back the first two, I realized that I was abbreviating them in my head as I was reading. The third one though is Jamal leaving a message on her machine. When I wrote it, I was picturing him seething inside but keeping control as he left the message. That was another big problem I had. Trying to figure out whether I needed to clarify the emotion of the speech and when to add (beat) and things of that nature to a section of dialouge. I don't know what I can do to fix the dialogue and differ the characters more than I did. There aren't alot of characters (which I did on purpose in case I did want to try my hand at shooting this in the future) and the majority of them seem like they would be blunt. Some are cold, some are upbeat, and Drunk Man + the Dealer are almost cartoony, in a scary way. ----- While writing this post, I thought of a way to make the story more traditional but I would have to scrap a giant chunk of what I have and abandon a good majority of what I was going for. I don't know if I want to invest any more into this. I was really looking forward to moving onto my next script (a comedy, completely plotted out in advance, with a ten week time limit). Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Nov 16, 2011 |
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Nov 16, 2011 04:43
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Griff M. posted:"Pot is an assault on life." I said it wasn't. To be fair, I'm a pinko commie Did he ever happen to rant about when Earthworm Jim is coming out on DVD?
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Nov 16, 2011 17:00
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Sporadic posted:That movie was Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles. When I watched part of it, I thought it was an extremely fascinating idea. Fascinating but tedious. I kind of figured that was the film. Have you seen the rest of it? You're right that part of the film's impact is its tedium but it's more about carefully watching for tiny details. The film takes place over three days and there's a sort of time dilation effect where the audience becomes accustomed to very, very little happening and all the tiny details become blown-up. In one scene, for example, she peels potatoes, but she does it in such a way that it's almost distressing, how the knife comes near her wrist, how the potato's rough peel holds onto the blade and then suddenly gives, how she hesitates between slices or attacks the potato in a flurry of peeling. In another scene she makes a meatloaf in a way that is almost certainly equivalent to how she services her customers, folding over and over in a distant way, the meatloaf squishing. She repeats a motion at one point in the same way one repeats a motion as one nears sexual climax, but it gets away from her, and so she squishes in a different way, and another different way, and another different way, and then suddenly it's a meatloaf. Somehow it's an involving experience. The issue you seem to be having is balancing between that kind of emotional detail (and you need it) and a more general kind of persona non grata film. The Bunt's Slur script was 180 pages of a volatile drunken young woman being hostile to everyone she knew and met in order to serve her need for external stimulus and while it was bloated and messy it was fairly compelling because it was really about her, about how she and people like her function in life. I think if you sit down and really try to work out who your main character is and how she functions you'll be on a better track. Why does she say and do what she does? Why is she bottling it up? What's the psychology behind that? It feels kind of arbitrary right now and in a film like this you can't be arbitrary, everything has to feel organic.
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Nov 16, 2011 18:52
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Pitching this Monday, wish me luck. Finalizing everything and making the concept art look purdy at the moment. Operation Frederator-a-go-go is almost here!
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Nov 17, 2011 00:00
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Would anyone be willing to look at a short I just wrote? It's 15 pages and I have to whittle it down to 10. Any input would be appreciated. Good luck with your pitching tomorrow, Griff!
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Nov 21, 2011 08:32
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Sure! fakename@stopthat.herf Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Nov 23, 2011 |
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Nov 21, 2011 16:42
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Sent it yesterday, did you get it?
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Nov 23, 2011 04:17
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Yup! Sorry. On a technical level you're pretty good, your descriptions are clear and you do a good job of "directing" the camera, moving from image to image, and I don't really see any issue with your dialogue. Your pacing's a little odd, you could definitely trim the first third a bit. Unfortunately your major issue is that you're really preachy and that's hard to fix without majorly altering the script. This is just my opinion but I really liked where it was going until that left turn. I love the concept of a romance blossoming via technology (and perhaps overcoming the alienation your No Face character is so angry about) so the kidnap plot was sort of unwelcome. Maybe it's the script's tone before the kidnapper plot - light, kind of funny. But if you're looking to cut it down to ten pages, you could probably reduce most of the first few pages into a series of short moments, almost montage-like.
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Nov 23, 2011 05:21
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Thanks for your input!
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Nov 23, 2011 06:17
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Although you've never reviewed any of my work, I would like to take the time to acknowledge the fact that Magic Hate Ball is seriously the best person ever. Hats off to you, good sir.
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Nov 23, 2011 20:14
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Aw, you guys...
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Nov 24, 2011 01:28
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Any tips for writing with a partner? I have never done this before and it feels like a first date even though we are good friends.
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Nov 29, 2011 22:06
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York_M_Chan posted:Any tips for writing with a partner? I have never done this before and it feels like a first date even though we are good friends. I've never done it but there is a good section in Thomas Lennon & Robert Ben Garant's book talking about writing with a partner. quote:ADVICE FOR WRITING WITH A PARTNER - edit I also remember an interview with Jay & Mark Duplass where they talked about one of them doing 90% of the script, getting completely sick of it and lateraling off to the other who would finish/polish it. Seems like you just have to find the dynamic that works for you and your partner. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 29, 2011 |
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Nov 29, 2011 22:29
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I've written the majority of my projects cooperatively at some level, and agree with Lennon and Garrant (such a good book). Here's what I've found: Always beat together, as specifically as you can. Don't write in the same room (or at least not at the same desk). Especially if you really like your partner and you'll want to talk to them about unrelated stuff. Do, however, keep an open line of communications so you can send over bits of dialogue, a character trait, or something like that. Make sure you respect the hell out of your co-writer. Be a little jealous of their skills. The worst thing in the world is feeling you're dragging someone on a project (if one person is both more technically solid, funnier, and a better plotter, for example. Judicious partner selection will eliminate this.) KEEP DEADLINES. One of the best thing about writing with someone else is that you have someone who won't let you grab pizza, visit your buddy at an animation studio, do the laundry and then completely forget to write that day.
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Nov 30, 2011 02:04
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Is there an easy way to change an existing script to proper screenplay or stage script format? The format is internally consistent but nonstandard. I don't want to rewrite the whole thing, since it's not a serious project. I'm just doing it as a lark and it would be cool to see it in standard format without spending a long time redoing it.
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Nov 30, 2011 03:29
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Seriously considering writing a remake of "Surf Nazis Must Die" for my first feature length screenplay. I casually know Jason Eisener (Hobo with a Shotgun), so if I could get him to do it, I feel like Lloyd wouldn't be too protective of the licence. Who knows. Thoughts?
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Dec 4, 2011 22:56
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If you have connections, don't cash them in unless you're really confident in your writing. If it's your first full-length script, you might want to get a few under your belt before you start asking for favors.
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Dec 4, 2011 23:10
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I've been writing shorts and studying screenwriting for a few years now, I'm just lazy and haven't written a feature. Now, that said, everyone's first feature is terrible, so you're probably right.
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Dec 4, 2011 23:23
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Griff M. posted:Seriously considering writing a remake of "Surf Nazis Must Die" for my first feature length screenplay. I casually know Jason Eisener (Hobo with a Shotgun), so if I could get him to do it, I feel like Lloyd wouldn't be too protective of the licence. Who knows. It depends. If you know him well enough where you can causally bring up the idea of a remake in a normal conversation and, if he responses positively, later approach him with the idea you can write the screenplay, give it a try. If by casual, you mean barely know him, I would avoid it. Presenting a finished product would be awkward. The best case scenario he feels guilty and takes it. Worse case scenario he thinks you are trying to use him or dictate the direction of his career, he refuses to take/read it and you lose whatever bit of friendship you had.
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Dec 5, 2011 00:26
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I wasn't gonna write the whole thing FOR HIM, I just figured since I knew him maybe he could do it. Don't worry, I'm good at this networking stuff
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Dec 5, 2011 01:05
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