Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Oxford Comma
Jun 26, 2011
Oxford Comma: Hey guys I want a cool big dog to show off! I want it to be ~special~ like Thor but more couch potato-like because I got babbies in the house!
Everybody: GET A LAB.
Oxford Comma: OK! (gets a a pit/catahoula mix)

WebDog posted:



Want this so bad for my Death Korps of Kreig army. :fap:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

New Division
Jun 23, 2004

I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

DarkCrawler posted:

There were some tacky WWII posters too...




I'm amused by the unintentional (or maybe not?) homoerotic vibe of this propaganda poster.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Can anyone recommend any good books on the Raid at Dieppe?

Copernic
Sep 16, 2006

...A Champion, who by mettle of his glowing personal charm alone, saved the universe...
Today I read this about the USS Gloucester:

quote:

The second Gloucester (PF-22), originally classified PG-130, was launched on 12 July 1943 at the Walter Butler Shipbuilding Company in Superior, Wisconsin, under a Maritime Commission contract, sponsored by Mrs. Emily K. Ross; acquired and simultaneously commissioned on 10 December 1943.

How in the heck did they get a frigate from Lake Superior to the ocean?

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten
Was going to say "The St Lawrence Locks" but that wasn't until 1959 soooo....

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

Down the river from Chicago to the Gulf of Mexico?

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004

by Smythe

Nenonen posted:

There were a multitude of solutions, but they normally involved a good deal of calculations, drawings on a millimeter grid, correction charts for wind, temperature, air pressure etc. But still much depended on manual calculations. There were also rules of thumb: eg. "a 10º change of temperature from +15ºC changes range by 5%".

One effective solution to the problems before computers was the Finnish Correction Converter (1943), a piece of plywood with an opaque plastic disc on it. With it the Forward Observer didn't have to know the relative difference in heading of himself and the battery to do corrections. The converter did this in a turn of hand, enabling the FO to easily control the fire of several separate artillery battalions at once.




I love such applications of analog computing. Rangefinders on early combat ships, stuff like that.

Particularly like the principles behind the Sidewinder missile. Designing a heat-seeking missile isn't hard, you could probably make one with Legos these days... but not so much in the era where computers were measured in the roomfuls. So the engineers of the day just used a couple of spinning mirrors.

quote:

Early development

The development of the Sidewinder missile began in 1946 at the Naval Ordnance Test Station (NOTS), Inyokern, California, now the Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake, California as an in-house research project conceived by William B. McLean. McLean initially called his effort "Local Fuze Project 602" using laboratory funding, volunteer help and fuze funding to develop what it called a heat-homing rocket. It did not receive official funding until 1951 when the effort was mature enough to show to Admiral William "Deak" Parsons, the Deputy Chief of the Bureau of Ordnance (BuOrd). It subsequently received designation as a program in 1952. The Sidewinder introduced several new technologies that made it simpler and much more reliable than its United States Air Force (USAF) counterpart, the AIM-4 Falcon, under development during the same period. After disappointing experiences with the Falcon in the Vietnam War, the Air Force replaced its Falcons with Sidewinders.
Geometric arrangement of mirror, IR detector and target.
An AIM-9B hitting an F6F-5K drone at China Lake, 1957.

The Sidewinder incorporated a number of innovations over the independently developed World War II German Missile Enzian's "Madrid" IR range fuze that enabled it to be successful.[citation needed] The first innovation was to replace the "steering" mirror with a forward-facing mirror rotating around a shaft pointed out the front of the missile. The detector was mounted in front of the mirror. When the long axis of the mirror, the missile axis and the line of sight to the target all fell in the same plane, the reflected rays from the target reached the detector (provided the target was not very far off axis). Therefore, the angle of the mirror at the instant of detection estimated the direction of the target in the roll axis of the missile.

The yaw/pitch direction of the target depended on how far to the outer edge of the mirror the target was. If the target was further off axis, the rays reaching the detector would be reflected from the outer edge of the mirror. If the target was closer on axis, the rays would be reflected from closer to the centre of the mirror. Rotating on a fixed shaft, the mirror's linear speed was higher at the outer edge. Therefore if a target was further off-axis its "flash" in the detector occurred for a briefer time, or longer if it was closer to the center. The off-axis angle could then be estimated by the duration of the reflected pulse of infrared.

The Sidewinder also included a dramatically improved guidance algorithm. The Enzian attempted to fly directly at its target, feeding the direction of the telescope into the control system as it if were a joystick. This meant the missile always flew directly at its target, and under most conditions would end up behind it, "chasing" it down. This meant that the missile had to have enough of a speed advantage over its target that it did not run out of fuel during the interception.

The Sidewinder is not guided on the actual position recorded by the detector, but on the change in position since the last sighting. So if the target remained at 5 degrees left between two rotations of the mirror, the electronics would not output any signal to the control system. Consider a missile fired at right angles to its target; if the missile is flying at the same speed as the target it should "lead" it by 45 degrees, flying to an impact point far in front of where the target was when it was fired. If the missile is traveling four times the speed of the target, it should follow an angle about 11 degrees in front. In either case, the missile should keep that angle all the way to interception, which means that the angle that the target makes against the detector is constant. It was this constant angle that the Sidewinder attempted to maintain. This "proportional pursuit" system is very easy to implement, yet it offers high-performance lead calculation almost for free and can respond to changes in the target's flight path,[4] which is much more efficient and makes the missile "lead" the target.

However this system also requires the missile to have a fixed roll axis orientation. If the missile spins at all, the timing based on the speed of rotation of the mirror is no longer accurate. Correcting for this spin would normally require some sort of sensor to tell which way is "down" and then adding controls to correct it. Instead, small control surfaces were placed at the rear of the missile with spinning disks on their outer surface; these are known as rollerons. Airflow over the disk spins them to a high speed. If the missile starts to roll, the gyroscopic force of the disk drives the control surface into the airflow, cancelling the motion. Thus the Sidewinder team replaced a potentially complex control system with a simple mechanical solution.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
How different were WW1 U-Boats compared to WW2 U-Boats? I keep hearing about how April 1917 was a really really bad month to be in the British Merchant Marine, though I can't quite imagine how advanced submarine technology would be by then.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

gradenko_2000 posted:

How different were WW1 U-Boats compared to WW2 U-Boats? I keep hearing about how April 1917 was a really really bad month to be in the British Merchant Marine, though I can't quite imagine how advanced submarine technology would be by then.

It didn't have to be super advanced when anti-submarine warfare was even more primitive. Eg. research for first sonar only started toward the end of the war and was not finished before the war had ended. Reliable depth charges had to be developed as the war went on. Airplanes of the time also weren't quite as good in submarine hunting due to limited range and weapons. Most importantly, for a long time the Brits believed that arranging convoys would be futile, as a lone ship has better chances of making it through than if they all travelled together. After the convoys were introduced, losses to submarines dropped from 25% to 1% of shipping. Of course this lesson was forgotten by WW2...

WW1 submarines weren't quite as advanced as what the branch became by WW2, and perhaps could be better described as torpedo boats that could dive for a while. WW2 subs at least were faster and had better range while submerged. But ASW had gotten up to them by then. You couldn't have a battle account like this in WW2:

quote:

On 22 September 1914, while patrolling the Broad Fourteens, a region of the southern North Sea, U-9 found a squadron of three obsolescent British Cressy-class armoured cruisers (HMS Aboukir, HMS Hogue, and HMS Cressy), (sardonically nicknamed the "Live Bait Squadron") which had been assigned to prevent German surface vessels from entering the eastern end of the English Channel. She fired all six of her torpedoes, reloading while submerged, and sank all three in less than an hour. 1459 British sailors died. It was one of the most notable submarine actions of all time. Members of the Admiralty who had considered submarines mere toys no longer expressed that opinion after this event.

Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

There he go

gradenko_2000 posted:

How different were WW1 U-Boats compared to WW2 U-Boats? I keep hearing about how April 1917 was a really really bad month to be in the British Merchant Marine, though I can't quite imagine how advanced submarine technology would be by then.

U-boats in WWI tended to use their deck guns over torpedoes, due to lack of planes trying to hunt them down. I believe the biggest U-boat ace of WWI almost exclusively used his deck gun.

A Fistful of Dicks
Jan 8, 2011

Mr. Sunshine posted:

Dude, I'm in the Swedish National Guard, and we're this close to issuing orders over facebook!

I laughed way too hard at this...

I'm slowly but surely reading every single page of this thread, but in the meantime, I had another, somewhat topical hypothetical for the experts -- how would a war between India and Pakistan shake out now? At least to me, comparing the numbers on paper, it seems like Pakistan wouldn't really stand a chance against a numerically and technologically superior Indian force. But that's assuming a pitched conventional war, and we all know Pakistan likes to play dirty.

Vague question, but I'm open to any and all speculation. Thoughts?

In the meantime, still wishing I could find a good book on the Iran-Iraq War or the 1998-200 Ethiopian-Eritrean War (that's more about day-to-day combat operations as opposed to grand geopolitical and sociocultural reasons for the wars).

Farecoal posted:

U-boats in WWI tended to use their deck guns over torpedoes, due to lack of planes trying to hunt them down. I believe the biggest U-boat ace of WWI almost exclusively used his deck gun.

This brings up another question: any of you bubbleheads know why subs don't use any anti-aircraft weaponry anymore? Seems like it'd be easy enough to fire of a SAM at a pursuing ASW aircraft.

wdarkk
Oct 26, 2007

Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

A Fistful of Dicks posted:

This brings up another question: any of you bubbleheads know why subs don't use any anti-aircraft weaponry anymore? Seems like it'd be easy enough to fire of a SAM at a pursuing ASW aircraft.

Presumably because that would very definitely give away its presence, leading to it "trading" with the aircraft. And subs are way more expensive than most non-B2 aircraft.

Slo-Tek
Jun 8, 2001

WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL
Propaganda image.


hellzyeahf96 by RReiheld, on Flickr

I always terribly impressed with Kulturterror though, as propaganda imagery goes.

For those who havn't seen it to death, it is Nazi propaganda (versions appeared both in Norway and the lowlands), and the man with the big ears (because he listens to too much allied propaganda) says "America will save European culture from destruction....with what right?"

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

A Fistful of Dicks posted:

I laughed way too hard at this...

I'm slowly but surely reading every single page of this thread, but in the meantime, I had another, somewhat topical hypothetical for the experts -- how would a war between India and Pakistan shake out now? At least to me, comparing the numbers on paper, it seems like Pakistan wouldn't really stand a chance against a numerically and technologically superior Indian force. But that's assuming a pitched conventional war, and we all know Pakistan likes to play dirty.

Vague question, but I'm open to any and all speculation. Thoughts?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1999

Nothing beyond that due to nuclear weapons. Pakistan wouldn't stand a chance and never has against a conventional war with India, but it doesn't have to.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Slo-Tek posted:

"America will save European culture from destruction....with what right?"

World's Most Beautiful Leg gives you the authority to do so, obviously. :colbert:

Kopijeger
Feb 14, 2010

Slo-Tek posted:

I always terribly impressed with Kulturterror though, as propaganda imagery goes.

That one was drawn by Harald Damsleth on commission from Nasjonal Samling, Quisling's party. He made several memorable ones.

"The smile of Victory"

"Now what matters is to not lose your head". The weight on the right reads "Total Bolshevik victory on the Eastern front."

"The wishful dream may become a nightmare"

"And here do you sleep."


"No!"

"A blessed meeting"

"Dear brother, with these beautiful crosses we wish to strengthen your faith." Placard held by big-eared man: "Christianity is being introduced in the Soviet Union."

"Front against Bolshevism"

"Where do YOU stand today?"

"All for Norway" (Motto of the king)

"The help from England" The "H" is actually the monogram of king Haakon 7.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Oh god the Norwegian winter campaign. So depressing.

Oxford Comma
Jun 26, 2011
Oxford Comma: Hey guys I want a cool big dog to show off! I want it to be ~special~ like Thor but more couch potato-like because I got babbies in the house!
Everybody: GET A LAB.
Oxford Comma: OK! (gets a a pit/catahoula mix)

Slo-Tek posted:

Propaganda image.



"Dad, why did you take me to a gay steel mill?"

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Thanks for the responses about WW1 U-boats, Nenonen and Farecoal. The subject piqued my interest enough that I went out and bought 1914 Shells of Fury as a WW1 subsim.

Much as I expected, the lack of computers at the time means leading a target with a torpedo shot will have to be done manually, as would be ranging shots with the deck gun.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



Copernic posted:

Today I read this about the USS Gloucester:


How in the heck did they get a frigate from Lake Superior to the ocean?

Though the St. Lawrence Locks weren't ready until 1959, there was already a pretty extensive system of canals and waterways up around the Great Lakes by the late 19th century. I presume they used those?

I've been trying to figure out who the hell that fourth guy on Trench_Rat's poster is and I'm not doing very well at all. The best guess I have is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Liman_von_Sanders but why they would worry about a random advisor instead of an admiral or something is beyond me.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Mister Adequate posted:

Though the St. Lawrence Locks weren't ready until 1959, there was already a pretty extensive system of canals and waterways up around the Great Lakes by the late 19th century. I presume they used those?

I've been trying to figure out who the hell that fourth guy on Trench_Rat's poster is and I'm not doing very well at all. The best guess I have is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Liman_von_Sanders but why they would worry about a random advisor instead of an admiral or something is beyond me.

He isn't a random advisor, he played a key part in bringing Turkey into the war, as well as commanding the defense at Gallipoli.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



mllaneza posted:

He isn't a random advisor, he played a key part in bringing Turkey into the war, as well as commanding the defense at Gallipoli.

You're right, I was being overly dismissive of the role he played. I can easily see why he would be highlighted as an example of German aggression by the Entente.

Rodrigo Diaz
Apr 16, 2007

Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad
Fourth man is Crown Prince Wilhelm http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30992

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
BBC has a tragicomical story about John Capes, a man who escaped from a submarine sunken to the depth of 171 feet (52 meters) in WW2 and then spent 1½ years dodging Italian patrols in Greece. And he wasn't even part of the crew...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15959067

Acknot
Mar 18, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

How different were WW1 U-Boats compared to WW2 U-Boats? I keep hearing about how April 1917 was a really really bad month to be in the British Merchant Marine, though I can't quite imagine how advanced submarine technology would be by then.

Early in WW2 the peak of submarine technology was the german type VIIC, and the
intensive development throughout the war led to the age-defining type XXI.

Early on, the subs were somewhat improved on terms of range and depth, but Wolfpack tactics apart were pretty much similar to the WW1 conterpart. Deck guns were still used, indeed the Royal Navy fielded some notable designs that had dual turrets with actual ship guns for surface gunnery. As submarines go, they were spectacularly ill fated. The germans added flak guns, even experimented with some flak submarines that intended to surprise kill ASW aircraft. Well, the aircraft won. The VIIc was so good that the Norwegian Navy raised and overhauled several boats that were scuttled by the brits after the war, and ran those (K-class) long after the "modern" british post-war subs that we were supplied free of charge. One of these, Kaura, is on display in Germany today.

Later on, the XXI redefined the game. Designed for submerged operation, they were full-welded clean-hulled and ran three times the battery power of most similar-size subs. Using a schnorchel, they could run generators submerged, and could replenish batteries from half to full charge in three hours. Improved submerged speed and range allowed them to run with, or even outrun, escort vessels.

The XXI design was so good it was set in production by the Soviet navy, albeit "improved" with reduced speed and range, and formed the mainstay of their diesel-electric fleet well into the 60s.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
How / why did the Royal Navy blockade Germany so effectively in WW1? The Kaiserliche Marine was at least as large as the British fleet IIRC, so why not just sally forth and engage them?

On a related note, why was there starvation in WW1 Germany, but not in WW2 despite the similarly tight blockade? Advances in agricultural technology enabling self-sufficiency?

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

gradenko_2000 posted:

How / why did the Royal Navy blockade Germany so effectively in WW1? The Kaiserliche Marine was at least as large as the British fleet IIRC, so why not just sally forth and engage them?

On a related note, why was there starvation in WW1 Germany, but not in WW2 despite the similarly tight blockade? Advances in agricultural technology enabling self-sufficiency?

No, the Royal Navy was the largest navy in the world, no questions asked. In the largest engagement, the battle of Jutland, the Grand Fleet could muster 151 ships against 99 German ships. The German plan in Jutland was to hit the Grand Fleet so that a considerable proportion of it would be destroyed, and so maybe after a few battles like that the High Seas Fleet would really be superior in numbers and able to open the blockade. While the result was favourable to the Germans in sunken tonnage, it was far from being a major triumph. There was the risk of the Grand Fleet actually decimating the High Seas Fleet to the point where they couldn't even act as a fleet in being anymore.

In World War 2 German economy was largely dependant on grabbing resources from the occupied lands, like France. And this time around Italy was an ally so they could be traded with as well.

Acknot
Mar 18, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

On a related note, why was there starvation in WW1 Germany, but not in WW2 despite the similarly tight blockade? Advances in agricultural technology enabling self-sufficiency?

Starvation (as in life threatening mal-nutrition) was common in Germany from '44 untill '49 or '50. I have no idea why you have'nt noticed, but could be that among the deliberate bombing of population centres, mass purging of ex german areas and the horrible treatment of civilians (particularly in the eastern sectors) starvation simply was'nt killing people fast enough to be ranked as a major problem.

Amused to Death
Aug 10, 2009

google "The Night Witches", and prepare for :stare:

Nenonen posted:

No, the Royal Navy was the largest navy in the world, no questions asked. In the largest engagement, the battle of Jutland, the Grand Fleet could muster 151 ships against 99 German ships. The German plan in Jutland was to hit the Grand Fleet so that a considerable proportion of it would be destroyed, and so maybe after a few battles like that the High Seas Fleet would really be superior in numbers and able to open the blockade. While the result was favourable to the Germans in sunken tonnage, it was far from being a major triumph. There was the risk of the Grand Fleet actually decimating the High Seas Fleet to the point where they couldn't even act as a fleet in being anymore.

If IIRC, wasn't the original plan for what became Jutland was the Germans tried to trick the British. They tried to make it look like it was only a small portion of the German Navy was going out, at which point Britain would send out its heavy/light cruisers to deal with it, they'd show up, and the entire German fleet would be there just waiting to decimate them, giving Germany a rather nice victory. Only Britain got word of the plan and the entire home fleet was there. Yes, no?

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Amused to Death posted:

If IIRC, wasn't the original plan for what became Jutland was the Germans tried to trick the British. They tried to make it look like it was only a small portion of the German Navy was going out, at which point Britain would send out its heavy/light cruisers to deal with it, they'd show up, and the entire German fleet would be there just waiting to decimate them, giving Germany a rather nice victory. Only Britain got word of the plan and the entire home fleet was there. Yes, no?

The Germans tried a lot of stuff to draw out a part of the British fleet so they could pound on it with all of theirs. They laid a shitload of mines and ran several operations where submarines were stationed outside British bases to try and ambush them as they came out to pound on German battleships. What really did the trick was shore bombardments. They ran two bombardment operations where their battlecruisers would bombard at daybreak and then draw the pursuit into the waiting battleships. This almost worked once, the German fleet was within about 30 miles of spotting and engaging the British battlecruiser and fast battleship squadrons.

The British would have been able to avoid battle if they had a clear view of the situation, but they might easily have gotten 5th Battle Squadron and the scouting forces into serious trouble. Those ships were faster than the German battle line, so they'd have been able to escape but possibly not before taking a lot of damage. 5th BS stood up well at Jutland but wasn't shot at for all that long, a more protracted engagement could have turned out very badly.

Ultimately the Germans were just jerking the British around, the RN wanted to smash the German fleet pretty badly and were going to come out every time they had a chance. They just weren't willing to take many (if any) risks of getting anything more than the battlecruiser force shot up to do it.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Nenonen posted:

No, the Royal Navy was the largest navy in the world, no questions asked. In the largest engagement, the battle of Jutland, the Grand Fleet could muster 151 ships against 99 German ships.

Oh okay. I don't know why, but I thought that the Kaiserliche Marine was at least even with the Royal Navy, unlike the Kriegsmarine being horribly outnumbered.

Fish of hemp
Apr 1, 2011

A friendly little mouse!
What would have happened, if Leonid Brezhnev would have stepped down from the leadership of Soviet Union sometimes in the late seventies? Would it made any difference to anything?

Retarted Pimple
Jun 2, 2002

Another old man to die off before Gorbachev.

NightGyr
Mar 7, 2005
I � Unicode

Retarded Pimp posted:

Another old man to die off before Gorbachev.

Given the power structure at the time, was Gorbachev's rise inevitable, or could someone else have taken office and held onto it, displacing him?

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)

Fun Shoe
Everyone in the high-ups knew that something had to be done, so if not Gorbachev then someone like him. The old guard were all dying off, as shown by Andropov and Chernenko, and they couldn't afford another Brezhnev. Sadly, instead of a Deng Xiaoping who was prepared to chuck any semblance of socialism overboard if it meant raising living standards they got an idealist who believed that honesty and openness was all that was needed for the system to revitalize. Well, the system proved completely incapable of handling any kind of honest scrutiny, and then Yeltsin and the vultures swept in and welp...

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:


On a related note, why was there starvation in WW1 Germany, but not in WW2 despite the similarly tight blockade? Advances in agricultural technology enabling self-sufficiency?

WW2 Germany won outright on the continent in 1940 or so, unlike in WW1, so they could loot food from Denmark/Belgium/the Netherlands/France/Poland etc. Until the end of the war when they lost that territory, of course.

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

mllaneza posted:

Ultimately the Germans were just jerking the British around, the RN wanted to smash the German fleet pretty badly and were going to come out every time they had a chance. They just weren't willing to take many (if any) risks of getting anything more than the battlecruiser force shot up to do it.

The reversal of German pre-war naval/political strategy and actual wartime strategy disgusts me. Pre-war: "The threat of our fleet will make the British treat us better, and if they don't, our fleet will be so strong that even if we cannot defeat them, their surviving ships will be unable to command the sea." During the war: "Do not seek battle, our ships are too important to risk." The High Seas Fleet may have been the blunder of the century. Even the Cold War was based on a saner calculation of actual threats and requirements.

OperaMouse
Oct 30, 2010

gradenko_2000 posted:

On a related note, why was there starvation in WW1 Germany, but not in WW2 despite the similarly tight blockade? Advances in agricultural technology enabling self-sufficiency?

There wasn't a similar tight blockade, except for on the North Sea.

In WW2, Germany occupied France, so stuff could be brought in through the (Vichy) France/Spain border, and other obscure constructions. I read once that Portugal sold loads of tungsten from its colonies to Switzerland, who then sold it to Germany.

The Eastern front was open till Summer 1941, and there was heavy trade between Nazi Germany and the USSR. The Germans captured almost the whole Ukraine in 1941 and kept it pretty long. That is an important bread basket.

Nostalgia4Dogges
Jun 18, 2004

Only emojis can express my pure, simple stupidity.

Can you guys tell me aolbout drug use during any war? Just gnerally curious. I know the Nazis used meth but not much else. I'm sure less contemporary Militaries drank quite a bit around battles and he'll were maybe eating opium to numb pains.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

GyverMac
Aug 3, 2006
My posting is like I Love Lucy without the funny bits. Basically, WAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Christoff posted:

Can you guys tell me aolbout drug use during any war? Just gnerally curious. I know the Nazis used meth but not much else. I'm sure less contemporary Militaries drank quite a bit around battles and he'll were maybe eating opium to numb pains.

Alcohol was a natural part of any soldiers daily ration when the more organized national armies started to appear in the 17th all through to the early 19th century. In some armies the alcohol consumption was more copious than others; theres stories about how whole regiments of Austrian soldiers were sent staggering drunk into battle.



EDIT:
Thanks to mr sunshine for clarifying the myth regarding the Amanita muscaria and its usage by the berserks of old.

GyverMac fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Dec 11, 2011

  • Locked thread