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What I really wonder is how the Bolton clan in general is allowed to loving exist as a lord house and not have been ousted by someone who could put two and two together and realize the Boltons are sociopaths and essentially a Noble non-cannibal version of the Sawney Bean clan. That bugs me more than just Ramsay being a cartoonish serial killer fuckwit.
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Dec 17, 2011 18:06
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Joramun posted:I've been thinking about that too lately, and wondering if he could still salvage Ramsay as an actual character instead of the caricature he is now like he did with Jaime and Melisandre for example, i.e. by giving him a POV chapter. Probably not, but it would still at least be a nice writing challenge. Any kind of writing is a writing challenge.
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Dec 17, 2011 19:10
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Just finished this book, quite enjoyed it! Don't really have any complaints other than having to wait a long time for the next one. The Boltons really killed Stannis? 
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Dec 17, 2011 20:47
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Paperback Writer posted:The Boltons really killed Stannis?
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Dec 17, 2011 21:01
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Jon has pretty clearly warged at the moment of death into Walder Frey. Heh.
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Dec 17, 2011 21:04
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Heh. Just so.
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Dec 17, 2011 21:06
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Joramun posted:I sure hope not. I do believe Jon is really dead, though. Which is also sad because he was one of my favorite POV characters, but his time had simply come.
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Dec 17, 2011 21:12
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It's pretty clear that the "For the Wall" people are meant to be a parody of New Mexico Border Patrol "FOR AMURICKA" types 
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Dec 17, 2011 21:14
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Paperback Writer posted:I thought he was going to be like the focal character for when the Others attack. Also, kinda dumb of those Night's Watch to kill him while they are totally outnumbered by wildlings. mufugga aint dead hth
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Dec 17, 2011 21:21
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Paperback Writer posted:I thought he was going to be like the focal character for when the Others attack. Plenty left to take that role, like Sam or Melisandre. If it ever happens at all.
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Dec 17, 2011 21:21
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So you guys are saying the uncultured and grimy wildlings are Mexicans?  I thought the Dothraki were (according to tviv)
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Dec 17, 2011 21:30
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Jon has pretty clearly warged at the moment of death into Walder Frey.
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Dec 17, 2011 21:31
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Joramun posted:Plenty left to take that role, like Sam You would be required to listen to this song while reading chapters where Sam is somehow the protagonist of the Wall.
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Dec 17, 2011 21:31
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bigmcgaffney posted:So you guys are saying the uncultured and grimy wildlings are Mexicans? You'd let those scrubs tell you which interpretation is right when half of them didn't see Ned's death coming and aren't even aware of Melisandre let alone the Red Wedding or the Boltons? 
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Dec 17, 2011 21:50
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mind the walrus posted:You'd let those scrubs tell you which interpretation is right when half of them didn't see Ned's death coming
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Dec 17, 2011 22:04
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I'd try to be all contrary and extra about seeing Ned's death coming but honestly I was semi-spoiled, so I'll just be kind-of because some of us did see it coming based on the series' reputation. No one told me Ned died but everyone told me to be on the lookout for major character deaths, and Ned's seemed really obvious to me once I was on the lookout, especially when I thought about how neatly it'd subvert the cliche of the noble and ethical man getting karmic justice for sticking to his guns.
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Dec 17, 2011 22:09
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Joffrey is simply the beta test for Ramsay Bolton. He does every cruel thing he can all the time, even if it obviously hurts his own prosperity, because enormous white noise where the reasoning should be with the main difference being he shoots bunnies instead of Spearwives.
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Dec 17, 2011 22:13
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mind the walrus posted:I'd try to be all contrary and extra I had everything major spoiled for me back when the books' thread was still in GBS. Didn't bother me. And then came the bad thread, where we spoil people for fun. Paperback Writer posted:Just finished this book, quite enjoyed it! Don't really have any complaints other than having to wait a long time for the next one.  Or  , and we will make you one of us. You will hate Gurm. Hatred will consume you.
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Dec 17, 2011 22:31
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Nilbop posted:Joffrey is simply the beta test for Ramsay Bolton. He does every cruel thing he can all the time, even if it obviously hurts his own prosperity, because enormous white noise where the reasoning should be with the main difference being he shoots bunnies instead of Spearwives.
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Dec 17, 2011 22:44
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Joffery's bullshit at least makes a little sense, as he's a 12 year old kid who's pampered as gently caress except when his father beats him. Acting like a sociopath is pretty much expected. Just he doesn't grow out of it or learn anything or become more circumspect. He just gets more and more over the top and retarded until he dies.
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Dec 17, 2011 22:48
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hailthefish posted:Joffery's bullshit at least makes a little sense, as he's a 12 year old kid who's pampered as gently caress except when his father beats him. Which is at 13.
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Dec 17, 2011 22:52
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Joramun posted:That's an interesting parallel but let's not forget that Joffrey was only 12 years old then, recklessness and reasoning without regard to the consequences is almost expected. Ramsay's perpetual OTT violence could be explained as hubris, plain old psychosis or (most likely) self-esteem issues but even then it's still ridiculous, especially because everybody just lets him get away with it. He gets away with it because his dad is also a psycho and his dad/Ramsay have a fuckload of soldiers so they can do whatever insane poo poo they want to unless it pisses off someone more powerful.
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Dec 17, 2011 23:07
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Edit: ^^^ I just wonder why the soldiers let them get away with it. Yeah, the Boltons are nobles and pay them, but surely a few them got around to hearing about the Starks or Kastarks and how it's a little unusual for your women and deserters to get loving tortured. Yeah, I've met enough pampered brats in my lifetime to totally buy Joffrey's actions as consistent with a pampered 12-13 year-old with more power than sense, but Ramsay really doesn't make any sense to me. Even if the Boltons are essentially the Jeffrey Dahlmer clan of the North why would they let a bastard get away with all the poo poo he does?
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Dec 17, 2011 23:08
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mind the walrus posted:Even if the Boltons are essentially the Jeffrey Dahlmer clan of the North why would they let a bastard get away with all the poo poo he does? Even papa Bolton simply sighs and rolls his eyes when he hears about the hosed up things Ramsay does. As if to shrug it off as kids being kids.
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Dec 17, 2011 23:45
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And he's a goddamn bastard. Didn't Jon get uncommonly nice treatment for a bastard and was still barely tolerated if he got up to shenanigans that'd threaten the honor of the house like sitting on the dais when important guests came to town? Why the gently caress would anyone turn a blind eye to a bastard straight up butchering people?
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Dec 17, 2011 23:58
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mind the walrus posted:And he's a goddamn bastard. Didn't Jon get uncommonly nice treatment for a bastard and was still barely tolerated if he got up to shenanigans that'd threaten the honor of the house like sitting on the dais when important guests came to town? Why the gently caress would anyone turn a blind eye to a bastard straight up butchering people? I believe Robb or Joffrey legitimized him, I forget who. Nobody likes the guy, they always talk about how he's a bastard. His dad is powerful though, and has a sizable army.
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Dec 18, 2011 00:33
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Fog Tripper posted:Even papa Bolton simply sighs and rolls his eyes when he hears about the hosed up things Ramsay does. As if to shrug it off as kids being kids. Papa Bolton is pretty crazy too. He's just learned to be more discreet than Ramsay. Also, I finished ADWD yesterday. I enjoyed AFFC so it was much the same experience but with my favourite characters. But gee, those Quentyn Martell chapters were a waste of time. The ending was pretty rad, though. Octy fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Dec 18, 2011 |
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Dec 18, 2011 00:46
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Ramsay's probably regarded to be just another dangerously disturbed bastard lordling in Westeros by most soldiers. We the reader know about the intimate details of what he does to people. For most soldiers, all they'd hear is that he tortures and rapes people. Big deal - Gregor Clegane was doing that and worse in book one. Gregor kills his wifes and servants and babies; We just don't know the inside story on many of those happenings.
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Dec 18, 2011 00:48
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Nihonniboku posted:I believe Robb or Joffrey legitimized him, I forget who.
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Dec 18, 2011 00:57
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Nihonniboku posted:I believe Robb or Joffrey legitimized him, I forget who. Nobody likes the guy, they always talk about how he's a bastard. His dad is powerful though, and has a sizable army. Yeah he had a reputation long before that though. Fair point on Gregor, but with Gregor I assume it's because the dude is loving Gregor; who wants to mess with that? Bolton's dad by contrast has a powerful army but isn't like a Stark or Tyrell or even an Arryn.
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Dec 18, 2011 00:59
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Supreme Allah posted:Ramsay's probably regarded to be just another dangerously disturbed bastard lordling in Westeros by most soldiers. We the reader know about the intimate details of what he does to people. For most soldiers, all they'd hear is that he tortures and rapes people. Big deal - Gregor Clegane was doing that and worse in book one. Gregor kills his wifes and servants and babies; We just don't know the inside story on many of those happenings.
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Dec 18, 2011 01:07
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mind the walrus posted:And he's a goddamn bastard. Didn't Jon get uncommonly nice treatment for a bastard and was still barely tolerated if he got up to shenanigans that'd threaten the honor of the house like sitting on the dais when important guests came to town? Why the gently caress would anyone turn a blind eye to a bastard straight up butchering people? Isn't he the only surviving son though? (He killed the legitimate one, iirc.) Bastard or not that's a thing. And a dude like Roose Bolton might even respect him for doing it, because as I said, he's also a psycho, he's just the low key kind.
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Dec 18, 2011 01:47
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Octy posted:Papa Bolton is pretty crazy too. He's just learned to be more discreet than Ramsay. That's the thing. Papa is discreet, yet he allows his bastard to put the tard in bastard. Octy posted:Papa Bolton is pretty crazy too. He's just learned to be more discreet than Ramsay. What part of the ending? The Dany having the bloody squirts or Uncle Lannister getting ceasared?
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Dec 18, 2011 02:51
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Is it a problem if someone hasn't read the source material? I wish he only read the bad thread as source. That would be an interesting movie.
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Dec 18, 2011 03:02
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Octy posted:But gee, those Quentyn Martell chapters were a waste of time. The ending was pretty rad, though. So those Tales of Dunk and Egg books are worth getting yeah? I need more.
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Dec 18, 2011 04:09
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I found Frog pitiful, at least GRRM had the decency to kill the poor weakling off while trying to prove his strength.
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Dec 18, 2011 04:50
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Asha is the bad thread personified.
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Dec 18, 2011 05:19
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Fog Tripper posted:That's the thing. Papa is discreet, yet he allows his bastard to put the tard in bastard. Varys and his little children killing Pycelle and Kevan. I did not see that one coming, whereas graphic descriptions of Dany making GBS threads water was inevitable.
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Dec 18, 2011 06:47
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bigmcgaffney posted:Asha is the bad thread personified. nuncle
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Dec 18, 2011 06:55
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I imagine Octy's avatar with a corkboard done up with index cards and strings connecting ideas and plot-threads and mathematical formula all pointing to one index card circled several times "Dany making GBS threads water."
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Dec 18, 2011 07:14
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