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Kersch posted:That's neat. Do you know if he changed the stats of non-western units so that they're on par with western equivalents of the same tech level? Yeah, the unit groups peak in different periods (for instance, Muslim units peak fairly early, Indian units in the mid game and Western units in the late game) but on the whole they are balanced. The only ones that aren't balanced towards the rest are New World (have superior units for their tech level since they'll always lag behind in tech) and Nomad (start the game with amazing units, but barely get any upgrades so by the mid-game nomadic countries are at a major disadvantage unless they reform into another tech group). Wiz fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jan 11, 2012 |
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Jan 11, 2012 17:17
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Wiz posted:The only ones that aren't balanced towards the rest are New World (have superior units for their tech level since they'll always lag behind in tech)
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Jan 11, 2012 17:21
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Cycloneman posted:What does that mean for the Cherokee in this game? Are their soldiers currently around as good as Western ones? Worse? Better? Roughly on par.
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Jan 11, 2012 17:25
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Wiz posted:The only ones that aren't balanced towards the rest are New World (have superior units for their tech level since they'll always lag behind in tech) and Nomad (start the game with amazing units, but barely get any upgrades so by the mid-game nomadic countries are at a major disadvantage unless they reform into another tech group). One of the bizarre things about starting as a nomad and then rapidly westernizing was that my cavalry was light years better than what i had "modernized" into. Actually, i have to ask - are hordes still in? If they are, there's really weird behavior if you force an enemy nation (almost always russia) to release a horde state where you're allied to a state that can't call to arms and or anything.
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Jan 11, 2012 17:36
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No hordes. Wiz considers them unfixable.
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Jan 11, 2012 17:53
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Tulip posted:One of the bizarre things about starting as a nomad and then rapidly westernizing was that my cavalry was light years better than what i had "modernized" into. No hordes. They're an utterly broken mechanic and are not fun to play with or against.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:02
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Wiz, does the Brotherhood of the Nameless still exist? The gnostic sects are the most interesting alternate religions.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:07
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Here's the SOTW for 1700. Later today I'm going to post some stuff regarding the colonies and then we're going to have a few days of officially sanctioned flagchat and colony tag brainstorming. Please don't start this until I give the go ahead. Chapter 36: The World of 1700  This is a new feature where I'll be showing off the major alliance blocks and their enemies. The main powers in Europe is the Burgundy-Espanya alliance, who fight frequently with the Franconian-Italian alliance over Burgundy's attempts to absorb the remaining French minors and Italy's claim to Savoy.   We ourselves are a part of the anti-Russian alliance together with Sweden and Poland.  Asia is dominated by the Zhen and Mughal giants and the alliances of Chinese and Hindu princes who oppose them. The Chinese princes were recently undermined by infighting and Zhen is making steady gains along the coast, while the Mughals have been unable to advance into the southern part of the subcontinent due to stubborn resistance from Mysore, Golcanda and Khandesh.                                                  I am going to stop reporting on the reformation and end this State of the World with a special religion map feature as requested in the thread.       
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Jan 11, 2012 18:10
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Haha wow good thing we have such high tolerance! And good call on hordes, i've spent enough time faffing about in early game central asia to know that it's broken as hell just wasn't sure if you had a different work around.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:20
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If I'm reading that religious map right, Azerbaijan is far and away the single most religiously diverse nation in the world. That should get us a few interesting entries in the history books. Also, Islam pressing down through China. I seriously wonder what life is like nowadays down there.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:24
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Was Espanya excommunicated or something?
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Jan 11, 2012 18:26
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Tomn posted:If I'm reading that religious map right, Azerbaijan is far and away the single most religiously diverse nation in the world. That should get us a few interesting entries in the history books. It should be noted that I am going to partially reverse some of the more unrealistic conversions in V2 like all of China during Sunni or whatever.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:28
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Tomn posted:Also, Islam pressing down through China. I seriously wonder what life is like nowadays down there. Well, given that they live in the midst of a centuries-long jihad that is basically the fall of the Southern Song in super-slow motion but seems to involve most of the coast getting sacked pretty regularly, i'd go with "awful." Also just noticed that all of Japan is Mahayana. That's different. And thanks to Paradox modelling Confucianism and Buddhism as non-syncretic that means that Japan is the heartland of Mahayana Buddhism. Are Mughals Muslim techgroup in this setup? They should start outstripping the Indian minors in overall technology pretty badly by this point if you didn't change them to Indian group.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:30
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Two questions: we have a liberation CB against Persua. What province? Also, why is Bavaria-Austria hyphenated? Is it a PU?
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Jan 11, 2012 18:32
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Tomn posted:If I'm reading that religious map right, Azerbaijan is far and away the single most religiously diverse nation in the world. That should get us a few interesting entries in the history books. Yeah, the other thing I had a look at is what culture our most prosperous provinces are as well. Again more or less all our cultures have at least one wealthy province representaing them. High Production wise Erzerum is Turkish, Crimea is Crimean (durr), Alania is Georgian, Kappadokia is Armenian and Gilan Azerbaijani. That does at least indicate that as well as the country being diverse our wealth is also pretty well dsistributed between the various communities which is a good thing.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:32
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Patter Song posted:Two questions: we have a liberation CB against Persua. What province? Liberation is not provincial. It allows us to force-release tags and vassals and is available against states with >50% badboy. Patter Song posted:Also, why is Bavaria-Austria hyphenated? Is it a PU? Yes.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:33
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Liberation (in vanilla DW) is a great CB if you like making vassal swarms, since it reduces warscore cost by 50% for releasing nations. Released nations come allied to and at high relations with whoever force-released them, so arrange a royal marraige and you can sphere and vassalise them quickly. Is the >50% badboy thing one of your alterations, Wiz? I don't recall that being a requirement in the basic game. Austria and Bavaria PUing up is probably a good thing, it allows for a fight for dominance in Germany on fair terms in V2. That'll be fun to see happen. Or for the PU to just dissolve in 15 years, one or the other.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:42
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Yep, in vanilla it requires Bill of Rights instead of >50% badboy.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:42
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Are there equivalent triggered modifiers to Western Advisors/Arms Trade for production and trade (and naval), and do we have a chance of qualifying?
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Jan 11, 2012 18:54
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NihilCredo posted:Are there equivalent triggered modifiers to Western Advisors/Arms Trade for production and trade (and naval), and do we have a chance of qualifying? Production requires 1+ free subjects and trade 1+ free trade. The naval one requires us to at least 1 towards naval which cancels out the land tech one, so that one we're not getting.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:56
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Wiz posted:It should be noted that I am going to partially reverse some of the more unrealistic conversions in V2 like all of China during Sunni or whatever. I hope you don't go too far with this. It's an interesting concept, and it would make it a disservice to have muslim presence being down to something like 5% in each converted province.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:56
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We should come to the aid of fellow Shi'as in Syria against the apostate Caliph-worshippers in Pers - ahahaha yeah This is a neat map. Do religious tensions die down as time goes on in this mod? Otherwise we may really need some kind of liberte-egalite-fraternite equivalent.
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Jan 11, 2012 18:57
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How did religion in the Near East and Persia end up so different from irl? Did you put Shias and Sunnis roughly like that after CK or is it because the states have gone berserk with missionaires?
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Jan 11, 2012 19:09
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Persia be forever damned for convincing us to become Shiite! There's only Medina left with us. ...What are some of the groovier forms of Shiite, anyway? In my limited exposure to the topic of Islamic theology they always tend to be given a negative light although maybe it's because the whole "Whoever's worthy of position V.S Whoever's got the blood of the Prophet" thing that I bias myself towards the Sunni as a groovier form. If our people still keep hold to some Sufi influence I expect we might be quite groovy.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:22
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As I recall, the Shiite/Sunni split being so different than reality is due to how Shiite and Sunni are handled in CK. In CK, Shiite and Sunni are character tags rather than modeled religions. Children pick their religion based on a random number generator and the religion of their parents. This meant that the state religions and province religions were decided by the religion of the nobility as the religion of the province was just "Muslim"
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Jan 11, 2012 19:26
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I really hope Cherokee survives at it's current state until Vic2, the feel good nation of the year really, and they'd probably play real well off of Christiania and GB.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:35
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Talas posted:Was Espanya excommunicated or something?
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Jan 11, 2012 19:41
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Cityinthesea posted:I really hope Cherokee survives at it's current state until Vic2, the feel good nation of the year really, and they'd probably play real well off of Christiania and GB. Conversely, I really hope Cherokee dies off soon, because its making North America ugly. Also, Norway, come on buddy almost there, don't forget to snag Vancouver and the Island.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:47
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Rejected Fate posted:Persia be forever damned for convincing us to become Shiite! There's only Medina left with us. It's pretty complicated. The whole blood of the prophet thing falls down at the first gate, since Ali was not directly descended from the Prophet except through marriage. It's a subtle distinction, but the Shia like to point out that it was the Ummayads who brought hereditary rule into the Caliphate, and that Ali had no objections to Omar or Abu Bakr. A lot of the early split in the Caliphate was as much urban urbane decadent Damascus Arabs vs. Peninsular conservative Bedouin Arabs and a lot of Persia went Shitte as part of complex ethnic and cultural differences with the Arabic conquerors who kinda came in and kicked down the doors. A lot of Shia divisions relate to splits, but legitimacy is never a question of who was whose son or who came first, but rather who received the esoteric knowledge of Imamism and so is the better ruler. Also, the fact that they were used and betrayed by the Abbasid dynasty and spent a whole lot of time being martyred left its mark both on confusing the lines of succession and the general outlook of the religion. Many have argued that the mainline Twelver Shia clergy, used to living under persecution, withdrew from politics and consigned themselves to a 'don't rock the boat' attitude in exchange for freedom of worship. The Imam would/could come down and sort things out, and only an Imam really had any business claiming to know how secular rule ought to be entwined with Islam. The Rule by Jurists thing is a pretty unprecedented development in Shia politics, though it was outlined about word for word by al Farabi. (An Ismaili philosopher with some drat near blasphemous definitions of religion. His Book of Religion is well worth reading if you're at all interested.) Modern day my 'favorite' sect are the Ismaili's, mostly since they still claim to have an unbroken heritage of Imam's that continues today with Aga Khan IV. The Ismaili's in general represent a more mystical Shia tradition than the Twelvers, who, without direct guidance from their Imam's after the occultation, also fell into the Sunni tradition of studying, well, tradition and the hadith and all the jurist arguing that makes Islam so much fun. They're also the offshoot that gave us the Assassin and the Fatimid Caliphate.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:48
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Cityinthesea posted:I really hope Cherokee survives at it's current state until Vic2, the feel good nation of the year really, and they'd probably play real well off of Christiania and GB. A Native American country with a minimal government that still relies on old tribal structures (:ronpaul:), while at the same time keeping the people under an iron fist in order to field the Prussian-grade army they need to survive in a great power's pincer? "Wild card" doesn't begin to describe it.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:49
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NihilCredo posted:They've got so many military NIs they might well survive the absolutely horrible position they are in (especially if the UK doesn't get too many awesome CBs against them), but if they do the conversion to Vicky will have them in for a fun ride. Its interesting how the real life Cherokee considered warfare a "polluting" activity and required a purification before reintegration to society could occur, because this Cherokee is basically Prussia in that its an army with a nation.
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Jan 11, 2012 19:53
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Hyord posted:Its interesting how the real life Cherokee considered warfare a "polluting" activity and required a purification before reintegration to society could occur, because this Cherokee is basically Prussia in that its an army with a nation. Probably a result of alternate timeline megafuana 
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Jan 11, 2012 20:03
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^^^ Yeah, what impact has the megafauna left on the game anyways? Australia looks about the same as ever. Looks like Italy's making a grab for Gibraltar. If something isn't done about Espanya's navy, they're never going to be able to take India!  Our glorious leader should finish up the annexation of Armenia and reclaim the ancestral Azerbaijani refuge!
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Jan 11, 2012 20:09
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SlothfulCobra posted:Looks like Italy's making a grab for Gibraltar. If something isn't done about Espanya's navy, they're never going to be able to take India! Speaking of Espanya's navy, I really would love to see it go toe-to-toe with Britain's. I havn't danced around with navies in EU3 in a long, long time, but from what I can recollect that fight looks like about dead even. It'd be a
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Jan 11, 2012 20:11
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Could you please share your .txt files for your rebalanced advisors, sliders and missions? Especially the "build a factory" mission has so much more reason to be completed with the additional base tax.
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Jan 11, 2012 20:28
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Regarding Sunni China, isn't it realistic that there would be some degree of penetration there? Zhen has been around for quite a while now and I expect you'd see greater numbers of Chinese Muslims as a result. All of China becoming Muslim seems out-of-range, but I'd still expect a greater proportion of Muslims than in OTL. Are any states in Asia modernized, and if so who are they?
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Jan 11, 2012 20:29
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Of course I'm not going to COMPLETELY reverse the conversion in China, I'm just not going to have a Sunni majority. A significant minority though, definitely.
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Jan 11, 2012 20:39
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Could we get culture maps too please Wiz? What culture are Zhen compared to the native chinese states?
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Jan 11, 2012 20:46
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The Saurus posted:Could we get culture maps too please Wiz? What culture are Zhen compared to the native chinese states? They are Zhen culture, which is supposed to represent a sinicized version of Uighur culture. I don't think the culture map has changed very much, so just check the ones I posted a while ago.
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Jan 11, 2012 20:51
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Wiz posted:Of course I'm not going to COMPLETELY reverse the conversion in China, I'm just not going to have a Sunni majority. A significant minority though, definitely. Without getting into a stupid derail, I think you're underestimating/downplaying the permeability of China to Islam, both historically and in the context of this alternate-reality scenario. If China had experienced long-term rule by a central government that was Islamic, I think it's not unreasonable to imagine pretty wide adoption, even a majority. Chinese Muslims were very friendly towards Confucianism, which is not a religion in of itself after all, and most Chinese Muslims integrated very easily into Chinese Confucian society. Even with a short blip of (hostile and disliked) Yuan rule and a few instances of Muslim advisors in the government over the years, China still has a population of like 20+ million Muslims. If the government had actually been actively converting people to ConfucianIslam...
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