|
Borden posted:This whole thing can be handled by Jeb over Twitter. Sure a PR firm would do a much better job of controlling this situation, but they cost a LOT of money, like thousands of dollars. They already got the translation done for free. No need to go spending money needlessly here.
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 19:41 |
|
|
lordfrikk posted:Wasn't this the exact reason why people were glad (at first?) that the there won't be an API but we get the unobfuscated code proper? And then they were't, and now we are getting the API but people still aren't happy... Although from what you're saying such an API that would allow for grand changes is possible? I am no programmer but those two points of view (having unlimited modding freedom vs. having flawless compatibility between mods) doesn't sound like something that's mutually inclusive.  incoming wall of spergin dev text So let's define API first since it's being thrown around a lot. Minecraft was written with java using the lwjgl (lightweight java game library). What that library does is offer an API between java and OpenGL (open source graphics library). This API is just a bunch of methods or functions that let you write java and use OpenGL since OpenGL isn't natively java. At first, we were told we will be getting an API. So we'd have some methods we could call that would let us, for example, change how high you jump. Then we were told that the "API" would instead be the complete open source code that a developer would be able to have for a fee. This would allow us, for example, to change the jump height directly in the code, repackage it up, and distribute it. Now, according to Jeb, we're going back to the first idea of an API with some contractors. The difference between an API and complete access to the code is pretty straight forward. Let's say lordfrikk wants to mod minecraft with his great idea. lordfrikk wants a new mob called a frikker that looks like a frog and hops around and makes a ribbit noise. With an API, lordfrikk uses some methods that creates some object called Frikker. Then he does something like Frikker.addMovement(MoveStyle.Jump). Then he does Frikker.addNoise("ribbit.wav"). Then he does Frikker.addModel(modelPoints[]). lordfrikk packs up his code and distributes it by maybe slapping in into some MODS folder that Jeb sets up for minecraft. poemdexter downloads the zip, slaps it in the folder, and poof there's little frikkers jumping in my game, yay! With the complete source code, lordfrikk looks at how a Pig is created in minecraft, basically copies the code with slight modifications, takes note of all the classes modified, recompiles it, then distributes it with a README.txt that says "please replace f.class, g.class, butt.class in your minecraft jar". It's a small pain for those who aren't technical. So it looks like an API wins right? Well, what if you wanted your frog to also do something way unique like have some internal counter and after 10 hops it would spawn an NPC that would give you an item. Well, what if the API doesn't offer this? You're boned. The complete source code would let you have this although it would take you a little longer to develop. Go look at all the neat mods from the modding thread and I guarantee most of them aren't Bukkit (API lite). tl;dr - complete source code = more interesting mods. API = easier to write mods, more control over mods from Jeb.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:24
|
|
|
poemdexter posted:Cool stuff Also, if I understand it right, if you go the complete source code route and two mods make changes to the same class, you're boned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:26
|
|
|
Borden posted:This whole thing can be handled by Jeb over Twitter. Sure a PR firm would do a much better job of controlling this situation, but they cost a LOT of money, like thousands of dollars. They already got the translation done for free. No need to go spending money needlessly here. I don't think anybody is suggesting mojang hire a PR firm. Instead maybe they should pay some guy a few hundred bucks out of their millions for the one time they need a few words translated into several languages. And then maybe check to see if their game is calling the player a friend of the family before sending it out. But what do I know; I'm not a self-made indie millionaire.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:28
|
|
|
King Hotpants posted:Also, if I understand it right, if you go the complete source code route and two mods make changes to the same class, you're boned. This is absolutely true as well. There's trade offs for both systems. In my opinion it's far too late for some sort of API. All the super popular mods already rely on a completely open base. It sucks for the players that you have to pick and choose, but that's that. If I was Jeb, I'd do the following: 1. Open up the complete source code. 2. Write an API that simplifies the netcode portion so that most of the awesome mods can start being used in multiplayer with minimal effort.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:39
|
|
|
Zenzirouj posted:I don't think anybody is suggesting mojang hire a PR firm. Instead maybe they should pay some guy a few hundred bucks out of their millions for the one time they need a few words translated into several languages. And then maybe check to see if their game is calling the player a friend of the family before sending it out. But what do I know; I'm not a self-made indie millionaire. I think they probably need some outside help. Especially when Notch makes statements like these.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:56
|
|
|
Oh my loving god not that again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:58
|
|
|
Fayez Butts posted:Oh my loving god not that again. Wuh, is it fake?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 00:59
|
|
|
Borden posted:Wuh, is it fake?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 01:01
|
|
|
Elysiume posted:Looks like it was real. Notch... Jesus christ, minecraft: over. Edit: apparently I am a fool. Dibujante fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jan 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 01:05
|
|
|
He probably meant women, seeing as Sweden, afaik, never had laws banning ethnic minorities from voting (probably because they're almost all white people). The N-word was a photoshop in poor taste - you can't actually edit tweets, so the "amazing bigotry removed" was in there from the beginning.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 01:05
|
|
|
gently caress's sake, not this derail again. It's impossible to edit a tweet. It's not real.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 01:06
|
|
|
Well, guys, there is a reason for  being
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 01:18
|
|
|
HardDisk posted:Well, guys, there is a reason for Kind of funny how it was first made because of a hoax, but has since become legitimate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 01:42
|
|
|
I thought it was made because there used to be a guy in this thread who kept making photoshops "proving" Notch was racist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 02:23
|
|
|
Mammal Sauce posted:gently caress's sake, not this derail again. It's impossible to edit a tweet. It's not real. I thought the twitter admins went in and changed it. But if it's fake then it's fake. Notch is still a reasonable man.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 02:40
|
|
|
Sorry to try and derail this derail by going back to a previous derail, but. This translation fun really isn't surprising. Not because of lol racism, no, but because, as people keep pointing out, Mojang is a lazily run company that just loves to cut any corner that saves cash with no foresight for the future. Snapshots themselves are a direct result of this. Pretty sure every single patch once development started to slow down and we weren't getting secret Friday updates had at least one major bug that crashed worlds, and some of them were so embarrassingly simple to find (All right, new update, who knows what could happen, better cook some iron in this furnace for armor and well there goes the world). Instead of getting any play testers (which I still can't believe they had) or updating their method of play testing, they made the guarantee that we were the play testers explicit and made a safe alternative (not updating, then snapshots) for anyone who didn't want the hassle. Snapshots are actually a great idea for generating feedback and finding the weirder bugs, but for Mojang the best feature of the snapshot model is not even feigning interest in playtesting. Sorry if that came off pissed. Seems angrier in reading back over it. I really agree with Krushgroove that Minecraft drama's almost more interesting than the game at this point. Notch can bring Mojang down with him, whatever, but he better not tarnish the idea of an open relationship between developers and gamers. It keeps being the most entertaining poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 02:48
|
|
|
Borden posted:I thought the twitter admins went in and changed it. But if it's fake then it's fake. Notch is still a reasonable man. That's impossible too. Think of twitter like a mass text. Once it's sent it's sent. With the exception that tweets can be deleted.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 03:09
|
|
|
Boat posted:No, this will probably be a bad thing, since, judging by the video, those dancing mobs are playing with the weird half-block light/liquid physics. If Jeb "fixes" that, it means that mobs will likely be able to spawn on half-blocks. Their not spawning there has been a feature forever and is used very very heavily in the cities in a server I frequent, and if it's "fixed" poo poo is going to be horrible forever. Mobs not spawning on half blocks is the result of half blocks not counting as solid blocks and thus not allowing spawning either in them or on them. It's the same reason that slimes can't spawn in the same block that is occupied by a torch and also can't spawn on top of them even though they have both the space and light level necessary to do so. Since the two mechanics are now unrelated, there's no reason why changing the light propagation rules would prompt Jeb to change how spawning interacts with non-solid blocks unless for seom reason it reminds him to when he had earlier forgotten it, but then he would've eventually changed it anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 03:20
|
|
|
They should add in a lot of finer controls for things like mob spawning. I myself was thinking about an adventure map that is based upon the idea of food being a scarce resource, with the player worrying about starvation all the time. The main thing preventing this is the fact that zombies drop rotten flesh, which trivializes the whole idea, and there seems to be no way to selectively prevent zombies from spawning. I could probably do something with monster eggs and dispensers, but that is a ton of work for something as basic as spawning mobs and something has to trigger the dispenser. Virtually every game that has custom maps allows you to control what NPCs spawn and where they are, it sucks that something as basic as this isn't in Minecraft. I'm sure a lot of people have similar ideas on what to do with the game that are either impossible or require insane amounts of effort to change something relatively minor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 03:47
|
|
|
I loving love Sandstone. God drat do I love Sandstone. You know what pisses me off about Sandstone? That I can't use it to make stairs and other things. It has a block and a slab, but no proper stairs. Also, I want palm trees. I need to complete my desert oasis/island paradise. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 03:52
|
|
|
Tsurupettan posted:I loving love Sandstone. God drat do I love Sandstone. You know what pisses me off about Sandstone? That I can't use it to make stairs and other things. It has a block and a slab, but no proper stairs. I know, I made a pretty bitchin' bazaar once and was kind of disappointed in how limited sandstone building options are. You can kind of make palm trees if you shear leaves off a tree, rearrange the logs, and sort of form the leaves around the top.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 04:19
|
|
|
Tsurupettan posted:Also, I want palm trees. I need to complete my desert oasis/island paradise. Construct them out of oak trunk and birch leaves? Fortunately, leaves not degrading near trunk is cross-species.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 04:43
|
|
|
Personally I just want them to make half blocks be mixable in stacks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 04:44
|
|
|
I've seen decent looking palm trees made with fences for the trunk.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 05:31
|
|
|
I do not know why, but screwing with the villagers in creative mode makes me laugh really hard. Edit: Now with sloppy video that does not have sound! http://youtu.be/c9TbAVMSTDI Jeesis fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jan 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 05:42
|
|
|
Jeesis posted:I do not know why, but screwing with the villagers in creative mode makes me laugh really hard. You can see the loathing in its eyes
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 05:42
|
|
|
Magmarashi posted:You can see the loathing in its eyes If Villagers had voices, they would all sound like Sam the Eagle from The Muppet Show. Tsurupettan posted:I loving love Sandstone. God drat do I love Sandstone. You know what pisses me off about Sandstone? That I can't use it to make stairs and other things. It has a block and a slab, but no proper stairs. Same here. I live in a desert area (or what used to be a desert) in SMP and having some more desert options would be nice for construction. Speaking of which, does anyone have any tips for how to build large structures and making sure they "look" right? It's so hard to tell just from standing at the bottom and looking up, or just guessing it looks right while at the top and building more of it. Finally you walking a bajillion steps away so you can see the whole thing from a faded distance and you notice something looks "off" and you have to build your little dirt tower up to chisel away and fix it up and hope you don't fall to your death (again).
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 05:51
|
|
|
poemdexter posted:
Those are great points, though while SSP mods do not use the Bukkit API, the majority of SMP mods, however, do. For SSP, the Forge API (which is maintained by Eloraam of RedPower fame) has been gaining a lot of traction as of late (a lot of major mods are jumping on, though a few have abandoned it because of ~MOD DRAMA~). I understand the pros and cons of both systems, but I personally feel that the API that is currently planned will be best for the modding community (and it is not like the modding community wont stop cracking through the obfuscation). The big reason why Jeb is working with "contractors" is because he isn't sure what the modding community actually really wants/needs from an API, one of the contractors is Eloraam since she has been building her API with the SSP community in mind and has been trying to add broader functionality outside of simple function calls (this has also probably been a big goal for her Forge API since her own mod needs a lot more than what a "simple" API would give). You add in the Bukkit developers help for the SMP crowd as well as the team that cracks Minecraft's obfuscation so that modding can happen at all and I think there is a good chance that the API might surprise us. If not.. well, Forge will probably replace it in utility.  If only Eloraam took that job position with Mojang, but I can see that causing issues with the MC clone she is developing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 09:05
|
|
|
Hopefully the API won't be feature locked after it's initial release so if there's something sorely lacking it can be easily added. Some of the basic stuff like high resolution texture support etc. should be just outright integrated into the game so people don't have to mess with the source directly no more AND it doesn't in any way impair players who don't want it (they just won't use the high resolution textures as they've been doing until then). And since Jeb's in charge it might even happen Also, the unification of SSP and SMP should be done BEFORE the mod API comes, right? Otherwise it's just wasted effort.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 11:58
|
|
|
Al! posted:Small and independent does by no means mean unprofessional. Vertigus posted:That is completely unfair to the independent game development companies that have solid, professional reputations. You don't see this lack of professionalism from the developers of Dwarf Fortress (one guy, free game) or Dominions 3 (two people). True,I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush (I have heard of but not tried either of those games). Perhaps what I should have said is 'Is anyone *really* surprised that Mojang is this unprofessional?'
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 12:31
|
|
|
krushgroove posted:True,I shouldn't have painted with such a broad brush (I have heard of but not tried either of those games). Perhaps what I should have said is 'Is anyone *really* surprised that Mojang is this unprofessional?' Claiming that Dwarf Fortress is more professional than Minecraft is pretty 
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 15:47
|
|
|
Don't know what that is, and I have no idea how professional (with or without 'quotes') DF is, but OK.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 15:56
|
|
|
Dibujante posted:Claiming that Dwarf Fortress is more professional than Minecraft is pretty krushgroove didn't say that, Vertigus did. I don't know all that much about DF besides that the dev is meant to be a big old sperg, do you care to elaborate? Mojang's pretty loving ramshackle.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 16:05
|
|
|
Dush posted:krushgroove didn't say that, Vertigus did. I don't know all that much about DF besides that the dev is meant to be a big old sperg, do you care to elaborate? Mojang's pretty loving ramshackle. The DF dev refuses to update his ridiculous and byzantine UI, and his code is sloppy as poo poo and runs like rear end but he won't accept any help because MY BABY. Honestly he's worse than Notch. It's an ASCII game that brings thousand dollar gaming rigs to their knees, for gently caress's sake.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 16:06
|
|
|
The DF dev once had a 16-month hiatus on releases so that he could rewrite all of the material interactions so that they would do the same thing, basically, but for different reasons.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 16:13
|
|
|
DF is free and makes Toady about $50,000 a year. Toady doesn't crowd-source critical material, the whole game is his doing. It's also not an ASCII game, it is a 3D engine. Minecraft costs $30 and makes Mojang hundreds of thousands of dollars a day. DF takes a few hours to figure out, tops, and you don't have to use an external wiki. By the way, DF has an API
babies havin rabies fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jan 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 16:19
|
|
|
GruntyThrst posted:The DF dev refuses to update his ridiculous and byzantine UI, and his code is sloppy as poo poo and runs like rear end but he won't accept any help because MY BABY. Honestly he's worse than Notch. That's the reason it's ASCII - so it can do all the calculations it does without taking even more resources. Why anyone is ever surprised by a game that calculates the emotions of the little toes of each entity uses a lot of computing power, I don't know. It's doing the same level of calculation as Folding@home for crying out loud. Minecraft wise - I think Minecraft serves as an excellent example of why copyright is bad for society. If the community could take the source and create better copies of minecraft, we'd all be better off, and notch would remain adequately compensated for his original innovation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 16:24
|
|
|
babies havin rabies posted:DF takes a few hours to figure out, tops, and you don't have to use an external wiki. No, but you do have to use tilesets or else figure out what's on the screen by reading the entrails of a sick and vomiting random ascii generator.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 16:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 19:41 |
|
|
Allen Wren posted:No, but you do have to use tilesets or else figure out what's on the screen by reading the entrails of a sick and vomiting random ascii generator. You could make this argument of any Roguelike game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2012 16:26
|
|