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DrGonzo90 posted:e:\/\/\/ OK that makes some sense. Most of my confusion came from the fact that Aginor and Rand both had the white cords, it wasn't really obvious why that was the case but I get it now. The one power doesn't really have a colour, per se. I always (in my brain) equated the different flows of the One Power to have different colours to the perception of the channeler, fire being red and water blue etc. so I think White would make sense as all the colours blending together. I think the reason why the symbol of the Aes Sedai is black and white is implied to be because when cuendillar is forged using saidar, the object turns white and when it is forged using saidin it turns black. Or, y'know. It could just be symbolic. The whole meaning behind the black cord isn't really clear for a few more books anyways.
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Feb 1, 2012 00:39
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I took it as the black cord being channeled regularly (tainted) an the golden/white being tapped directly from the eye (untainted).
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Feb 1, 2012 00:47
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Prison Warden posted:The one power doesn't really have a colour, per se. I always (in my brain) equated the different flows of the One Power to have different colours to the perception of the channeler, fire being red and water blue etc. so I think White would make sense as all the colours blending together. You're confusing the power flowing into a person with the power flowing out of a person. When someone is shielded while channeling, they hit the power flowing into them, not out. Spoilered because I don't think they've done exactly that, yet.
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Feb 1, 2012 01:17
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I feel the tone of the series changes a lot between books 1 and 2. All of a sudden we're not just following a group of adventurers, but the entire world comes into play, as even in the prologue he starts getting us used to all the different provinces and their inherent personalities (and dress codes). It's like the Wheel of Time has really begun for me here.
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Feb 3, 2012 08:06
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AreYouStillThere posted:I feel the tone of the series changes a lot between books 1 and 2. All of a sudden we're not just following a group of adventurers, but the entire world comes into play, as even in the prologue he starts getting us used to all the different provinces and their inherent personalities (and dress codes). It's like the Wheel of Time has really begun for me here. I agree completely and I think this is one of the reasons why I like book 1 a lot better. All the provinces and lore is cool and all but it really just loses my interest. Especially when the keep going on about daes dae'mar. Book 1 seemed much more of a faster pace. My hope is that the series gets back to the tone of book 1.
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Feb 3, 2012 12:11
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It never quite does, but a good thing to bear in mind is that the idea behind this story is a true end-of-an-aeon conflict that's supposed to involve the whole world, and though it does center around a fairly well-established group of characters, a great deal of WoT is spent very carefully, very deliberately drawing everything into the mix. "Ambitious" is a bit of an understatement when it comes to the heights it reaches, but it's up to the individual reader to determine whether or not the whole thing works, but it's a judgment best cast in hindsight, I think--as much of a slog as it can become, the moments of payoff are extremely worth it. On a completely unrelated note: Whenever Rand, Mat, and especially Perrin is the point-of-view, try to picture everything they say and do without their internal monologues. Particularly if you're re-reading. Something rather interesting happens.
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Feb 3, 2012 13:38
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Since I re-read the entire series just a bit before this idea came up, could you maybe sum up what happens? I don't think I can read another 7000 pages that soon.
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Feb 3, 2012 14:18
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Kruller posted:Since I re-read the entire series just a bit before this idea came up, could you maybe sum up what happens? I don't think I can read another 7000 pages that soon. It's kind of nuanced, but to sum it up, their internal monologues are a massive part of what defines them to the audience, and it casts them is a very specific light--which is all well and good, since that's how they're written to be, how we're meant to see them. But, when you remove that factor, it's easier to put yourself in the shoes of those around him. It's simplest to do this with Rand, because a lot of his big moments are seen through the eyes of others anyway--how he comes off as genuinely dangerous and erratic, particularly after book 3, which in my opinion is when Rand starts getting good--and perhaps the least amount of change is with Mat (at least that I've noticed thus far) but I think Perrin's is the biggest contrast. His thoughts are very emotional, a lot of "why me", kind of angsty, particularly where Faile is involved, but when you put that aside you can see why people around him regard him as this kind of quiet-but-dangerous force who commands respect. Depending on how you read, it's entirely possible that this is just stating the obvious, but it's one of the biggest differences that I myself have noticed, having gone about ten years without touching the books and coming back to them within the past few.
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Feb 3, 2012 14:46
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I'm on book 3 and I think it's much better than book 2 so far. This one helps explain a lot of the opinions I've seen expressed about the characters and the series. I'm right at the part where Matt has been healed from the dagger's taint and is now awake and eating food. I'm really curious to see his reaction to all the stuff that's happened since he's been out. I'm also anxious about who if any Aes Sedai are still black ajah after that crossbow bolt nearly killed Egwene and Nynaeve. Do Elayne's brothers play a much of a role in this series or are they fairly minor? I don't really like them for some reason.
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Feb 3, 2012 19:01
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One posted:I'm on book 3 and I think it's much better than book 2 so far. This one helps explain a lot of the opinions I've seen expressed about the characters and the series. Yes. But I won't tell you how, but it does play a large point, Gawyn comes in earlier, but Galad has a bunch of moments as well. Honestly, I ended up liking Galad much more than Gawyn. But they both have a chunk of character development. As for the Black Ajah, just wait, it's a bit of a twist. berenzen fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Feb 3, 2012 |
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Feb 3, 2012 19:13
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Try not to dismiss any character. If they have a name, you can be reasonably certain they'll turn up again somehow. Some as just cameos, others thrust clear into the path of the plot in the most unexpected and bizarre way possible. Hiya doin', Birgitte.
Mazed fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Feb 3, 2012 |
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Feb 3, 2012 20:34
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Mazed posted:It never quite does, but a good thing to bear in mind is that the idea behind this story is a true end-of-an-aeon conflict that's supposed to involve the whole world, and though it does center around a fairly well-established group of characters, a great deal of WoT is spent very carefully, very deliberately drawing everything into the mix. Actually this might help me enjoy it more, thinking of it on the grand scale. I guess I've been reading too many stories about smaller groups of adventurers, etc.
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Feb 3, 2012 20:59
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One posted:I'm on book 3 and I think it's much better than book 2 so far. This one helps explain a lot of the opinions I've seen expressed about the characters and the series. if the pov characters last name is "trakkand", its a horrible chapter
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Feb 3, 2012 21:09
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I don't know if it has come up yet, but bear in mind that Aes Sedai do not lie. Oh they twist words all the time, but they are physically incapable of telling an outright lie. Obviously this wouldnt work for the Black Ajah, keeping themselves hidden. If you catch an Aes Sedai character outright lying at any point, you have found your Darkfriend Just to make the reading experience a little more fun.
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Feb 4, 2012 00:44
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omnibobb posted:if the pov characters last name is "trakkand", its a horrible chapter I disagree Galad's chapters are actually quite interesting. Gawyn's chapters though... he just comes off as a spoiled, whiny brat. Also, there are something like 200 named characters added in each book, and if they don't die off, you can expect to see them in later novel. berenzen fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 4, 2012 |
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Feb 4, 2012 01:02
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berenzen posted:I disagree Galad's chapters are actually quite interesting. Gawyn's chapters though... he just comes off as a spoiled, whiny brat. Galad's last name is Damodred
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Feb 4, 2012 01:07
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Mazed posted:It's kind of nuanced, but to sum it up, their internal monologues are a massive part of what defines them to the audience, and it casts them is a very specific light--which is all well and good, since that's how they're written to be, how we're meant to see them. But, when you remove that factor, it's easier to put yourself in the shoes of those around him. It's simplest to do this with Rand, because a lot of his big moments are seen through the eyes of others anyway--how he comes off as genuinely dangerous and erratic, particularly after book 3, which in my opinion is when Rand starts getting good--and perhaps the least amount of change is with Mat (at least that I've noticed thus far) but I think Perrin's is the biggest contrast. His thoughts are very emotional, a lot of "why me", kind of angsty, particularly where Faile is involved, but when you put that aside you can see why people around him regard him as this kind of quiet-but-dangerous force who commands respect. This has always been one of my absolute favorite things about the series--Jordan understands that people don't always explain themselves, often because they can't because they're on the inside and all the crazy poo poo going on in their head seems totally normal, so they don't even understand that it should be explained. Although he takes it too far sometimes, it adds a real element of verisimilitude to the massive number of interactions between the huge cast of characters. As for Gawyn, feel free to be annoyed by him, but toward the end of the series he has one of the most badass scenes imaginable. And to be fair to the character, I'd probably be pretty angsty too if I basically had to sit on the sidelines and watch a bunch of demigods decide the fate of the world. I mean, all this bullshit happens to him, and there's just nothing he can do about any of it because he's a useless muggle.
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Feb 4, 2012 01:51
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berenzen posted:I disagree Galad's chapters are actually quite interesting. Gawyn's chapters though... he just comes off as a spoiled, whiny brat. Like the other dude said, Galad has a different last name and you're right, he has some rad chapters, especially towards the end
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Feb 4, 2012 02:59
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:This has always been one of my absolute favorite things about the series--Jordan understands that people don't always explain themselves, often because they can't because they're on the inside and all the crazy poo poo going on in their head seems totally normal, so they don't even understand that it should be explained. True, in ToM he definitely gets a badass scene at the end. But that still doesn't make up for all the Oh, I love Egwene, but she doesn't want me, even though she said that she does, but she doesn't want to have to rely on me and she's more stubborn than a mule. berenzen fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Feb 4, 2012 |
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Feb 4, 2012 03:40
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I've never done a Lets Read before but it sure is frustrating when people just decide to yak on about poo poo that happens eleven loving books down the line when there's a perfectly good general WoT discussion thread in this very forum, and we've had some pretty big dealings in the current readthrough chapters! Kinda makes me wonder what the attraction is to this kinda thread!
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Feb 4, 2012 04:54
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Willie Tomg posted:I've never done a Lets Read before but it sure is frustrating when people just decide to yak on about poo poo that happens eleven loving books down the line when there's a perfectly good general WoT discussion thread in this very forum, and we've had some pretty big dealings in the current readthrough chapters! Kinda makes me wonder what the attraction is to this kinda thread! You can't really talk about the first 18 chapters of The Great Hunt, they're pretty bland in terms of the story. It isn't until the later chapters until you can have any good discussion for it. We spoiler it for the people who haven't read the books. Not to mention that a lot of this started out from answering a question about someone asked about the series. Eventually, it'll die down, just like it does in LP threads. There's no reason to get upset. We're keeping everything more or less under wraps, the discussion is still fairly vague, and it isn't like we're saying anything extremely spoilery. Like who Kills Rand's tutor. When that comes up though, I'd like to see the first-time readers try and deduce who it is.
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Feb 4, 2012 05:13
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Yep, like some shows or movies, part of a book series this large are slow. Would you like to discuss Rand hiding from the Amyriln? But real discussion; we've seen Rand mention loosing his hand, andMat say he almost always wins at dice. I just read Moraine think that just about every queen who lets it be known that they are full Aes Sedai lives to regret it. Between that and a certain someones thoughts about Elaynes safety, i wonder if Elayne/Andor is pretty boned this winter?
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Feb 4, 2012 05:22
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berenzen posted:You can't really talk about the first 18 chapters of The Great Hunt, they're pretty bland in terms of the story. It isn't until the later chapters until you can have any good discussion for it. We spoiler it for the people who haven't read the books. Not to mention that a lot of this started out from answering a question about someone asked about the series. Eventually, it'll die down, just like it does in LP threads. There's no reason to get upset. We're keeping everything more or less under wraps, the discussion is still fairly vague, and it isn't like we're saying anything extremely spoilery. Like who Kills Rand's tutor. When that comes up though, I'd like to see the first-time readers try and deduce who it is. I have no idea how you can deduce it honestly. I read it in the general discussion and was shocked. There doesn't seem to be any clues at all about it and I've read the series like 3 times in 15 years or something dumb. Maybe I'm an idiot though.
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Feb 4, 2012 11:37
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Ramadu posted:I have no idea how you can deduce it honestly. I read it in the general discussion and was shocked. There doesn't seem to be any clues at all about it and I've read the series like 3 times in 15 years or something dumb. Maybe I'm an idiot though. That  mother fucker would always only ever say "Oh, it should be painfully obvious to even the most casual reader, from the text", too. I swear if Sanderson doesn't address it, there's gonna be a shooting.
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Feb 4, 2012 17:46
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Ramadu posted:I have no idea how you can deduce it honestly. I read it in the general discussion and was shocked. There doesn't seem to be any clues at all about it and I've read the series like 3 times in 15 years or something dumb. Maybe I'm an idiot though. The clues are all there, read the "Sherlock Holmes" treatment of it.
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Feb 4, 2012 18:25
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Mazed posted:Try not to dismiss any character. If they have a name, you can be reasonably certain they'll turn up again somehow. Some as just cameos, others thrust clear into the path of the plot in the most unexpected and bizarre way possible. I loved the fact that Alpert Mull shows up again, I had such a grin on my face when that happened. No that's not a spoiler because you probably don't remember who he is and it's such a minor thing.
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Feb 4, 2012 20:16
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Apples First is such a goddamn good chapter for that callback to the very first set of prophecies in TEoTW.
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Feb 5, 2012 04:45
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gently caress all of you, you dweebs have drawn me away from sophisticated books to read an overly long fantasy series I haven't touched since I was fairly young. To my surprise, the quality of writing is not as bad as I expected, and it stands up much better than other stuff from my childhood. The only really glaringly stupid thing so far has been when Moirane was confronted with an angry mob of ignorant villagers and she decided the best way to quell it was to give a history lecture, which was meant to be full of pathos but came across as hammy and out of place.
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Feb 5, 2012 15:59
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Neurosis posted:gently caress all of you, you dweebs have drawn me away from sophisticated books to read an overly long fantasy series I haven't touched since I was fairly young. I liked that part 
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Feb 5, 2012 16:39
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Especially since it sets off so many changes in the Two Rivers.
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Feb 5, 2012 16:41
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Quad posted:That Revealed in Towers of Midnight. I've also seen the deduction, it makes sense actually. I'm not going to link it, so as to prevent temptation for the newbie readers.
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Feb 5, 2012 19:57
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Can someone spoiler what you're all talking about? Herid Fels death? Asmodean's death?
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Feb 6, 2012 01:55
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Asmodean's death. Edit: That's a spoiler from end of book 5, by the way.
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Feb 6, 2012 01:56
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berenzen posted:Revealed in Towers of Midnight. I've also seen the deduction, it makes sense actually. I'm not going to link it, so as to prevent temptation for the newbie readers. Yeah it's revealed but I don't think that there are very good clues, I always thought that it was Lanfear because it seemed the most reasonable I guess. All you get in the book is the "It's You!" without any context at all.
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Feb 6, 2012 05:58
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Lascivious Sloth posted:Can someone spoiler what you're all talking about? Herid Fels' death is pretty apparent who did it- it's a Gholam
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Feb 6, 2012 06:08
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Ramadu posted:Yeah it's revealed but I don't think that there are very good clues, I always thought that it was Lanfear because it seemed the most reasonable I guess. All you get in the book is the "It's You!" without any context at all. No, really, all the clues are there. Read the deduction. It could NOT have been Lanfear, because she was already tossed through the 'finn gate.
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Feb 6, 2012 18:52
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Yay, I'm on TGH and will probably finish it at work tonight! What DOES "IT IS NOT HERE"mean at thr end of book 1, anyway? It is not here that the last battle will be fought? Creator has weird syntax. 
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Feb 6, 2012 21:37
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Quad posted:Yay, I'm on TGH and will probably finish it at work tonight! What DOES "IT IS NOT HERE"mean at thr end of book 1, anyway? It is not here that the last battle will be fought? Creator has weird syntax. Probably, yeah, it was the Creator telling everybody they have to go play over there, but that's probably the single weirdest and most ambiguously-interpreted moment in the whole series to date; it's sortof the Tom Bombadil of WoT, an ambiguous appearance by a maybe-Creator that mostly happened because it's the first book and stuff wasn't completely worked out yet. (Similarly, the Old Tongue passages in Eye tend to be "off" when compared to the old tongue in later books -- Jordan explained it in-universe by saying they were idiomatic useages, etc., but basically it was really first-book-itis. Best solution; accept that it's a moment you don't fully understand because the POV character didn't fully grok it either.
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Feb 6, 2012 22:13
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I'll support not being able to figure out who-done-it, because when you read the deductions, a lot of it runs on information outside the books, in the form of interviews/statements from RJ. With literally just the information in the books, you can make a couple guesses but until ToM there isn't much of a chance you can definitely say who.
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Feb 6, 2012 22:32
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ZypherIM posted:I'll support not being able to figure out who-done-it, because when you read the deductions, a lot of it runs on information outside the books, in the form of interviews/statements from RJ. With literally just the information in the books, you can make a couple guesses but until ToM there isn't much of a chance you can definitely say who. Actually you can say with good confidence who it was based on information only from the first 5 books. And the list of potential suspects with even the slightest possibility of doing the deed becomes exactly 1 after the next book. When we say Sherlock Holmes deduction, we meant this one http://m.fanfiction.net/s/4975913/1/ which was written from what I can tell around 2000, posted to that site in 2009, based only on information from books 1-6 and not on anything external to the books. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Feb 6, 2012 |
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Feb 6, 2012 23:08
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