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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Probably, yeah, it was the Creator telling everybody they have to go play over there, but that's probably the single weirdest and most ambiguously-interpreted moment in the whole series to date; it's sortof the Tom Bombadil of WoT, an ambiguous appearance by a maybe-Creator that mostly happened because it's the first book and stuff wasn't completely worked out yet. (Similarly, the Old Tongue passages in Eye tend to be "off" when compared to the old tongue in later books -- Jordan explained it in-universe by saying they were idiomatic useages, etc., but basically it was really first-book-itis. I usually rationalise it to myself as Rand is at his final learning-contact with the True Source, where the fever and the touching come at the same time, and he is pretty much out of his gourd for the whole final confrontation with Ba'alzamon
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Feb 6, 2012 23:58
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Guys, I feel bad - I'm so behind in this book. I just finished chapter 7. I'm shameful. But maybe I can catch up this week!  Week of February 6 - The Great Hunt, Chapters 19 - 35
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Feb 7, 2012 01:08
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arioch posted:Actually you can say with good confidence who it was based on information only from the first 5 books. I'm going to point you to http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/36. The Sherlock Holmes bit is nice, though annoying to read, but makes some assumptions and uses that to get down to 1. The proof for the party accused is mostly saying "well, this person is the only one left", and not some stronger hints that they were there at the time, or claim credit or anything like that. Also, the comment that Robert Jordan made about it being obvious at the time of the killing is clearly excessive, as at time of it there are a handful of strong suspects, which only the following book eliminates several of.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:09
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^I think that's why it would be referred to as the Sherlock Holmes method of deduction. If you've ever heard the statement "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth," it comes from Sherlock Holmes. Though, I didn't read that thing and have no idea what the subject you are talking about is, I'm just basing that from what you just stated about the structure of the argument, it's just something based on deductive reasoning which was a Sherlock Holmes staple. I'm guessing as long as he uses Occam's Razor with regards to the assumptions you mentioned, it could be a decent argument.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:30
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omnibobb posted:Guys, I feel bad - I'm so behind in this book. I just finished chapter 7. I'm shameful. I just finished book 1 yesterday, considering the chapter discussion has died down, I'm wondering where everybody else is in the re-read. Speaking of the end of book 1, its so charming when Rand proudly proclaims, "I did it! I killed Shai-tan!! HURRRR!!!!" 
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Feb 7, 2012 12:43
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Cartoon Man posted:I just finished book 1 yesterday, considering the chapter discussion has died down, I'm wondering where everybody else is in the re-read. I am perfectly on pace! I have everything portioned out so I read at most three chapters a day (even that's more than my personal goal). Sometimes I want to read more, or less, but I keep it between 1-3 chapters a day so that I can hopefully keep the same pace for the rest of the series. It's an endurance test!
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Feb 7, 2012 12:59
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ZypherIM posted:but makes some assumptions and uses that to get down to 1 Nothing involving any leaps of faith other than saying, hey, RJ didn't write anybody else's POVs in such a way, so he probably didn't write these POVs in such a way either. And there are a few annoyances in the WOTFAQ writeup in that it refuses to do (itself being a reflection of the altsfwrj newsgroup's wishful thinking of the time) or skips over in the end summation. 1) Refuses to eliminate candidates who were dead at the time 2) Also does not consider for Opportunity (whereas the SH writeup does) that there IS a group of Forsaken who have some amount of license to be in the Caemlyn palace Furthermore, as a final confirmation, reminder that in book 6, after the breakup of the Caemlyn Forsaken Posse, Graendal forms an alliance with Sammael, and in book 7 she rummages through his poo poo in Illian after he bites it.
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Feb 7, 2012 17:09
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I was going to type up a bunch of stuff, but I'll just sum it up and say that even that deduction uses stuff up through 3 books later to be able to say that there are 2 possible left and only 1 makes sense given some other points. Looking back on the quote about it being obvious, it was in referral to information we get 3 books later. So really, when someone asks about it, the reply shouldn't be "You should be able to know who did it right when it happened  ", but "You might be able to figure it out when it happens, by the end of the next book have a good guess, and by a couple books later know for sure".
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Feb 7, 2012 22:49
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Burn me, the change in writing is really noticeable when you get to Sanderson. It's not a bad thing, but Light, it's there. I'm doing my best not to sick up about it.
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Feb 8, 2012 03:25
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cumsitter posted:Burn me, the change in writing is really noticeable when you get to Sanderson. It's not a bad thing, but Light, it's there. I'm doing my best not to sick up about it. If you're talking about Mat swearing his head off, Jordan wrote all that. He's supposed to be freaking the gently caress out about getting married and that's how he does it. It calms down later in the book.
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Feb 8, 2012 10:59
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I just reached the part in the book where Rand meets the Amyrlin for the first time. This is some of Jordan's greatest writing in the whole series. The best part is when Siuan channels her inner Chris Hanson and asks Rand, "Why don't you have a seat over there?" Rand says something like, "Thank you but I would prefer to stand. The Watch is not yet complete." "God-dammit Moiraine, you've been letting Lan spend time with him!"  Its also going to be fascinating to watch every scene with Verrin in it knowing what happens in book 12. That was the best kept secret of the whole series. Well at least until AMOL comes out, I hope.  I also love the part where Moiraine explains about Tam Al'thor, and Rand keeps having flashbacks about Tam's fever dream. Chilling stuff.
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Feb 9, 2012 20:40
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Siuan is another one of those characters to watch. She's funny, in a lot of the same way that Nynaeve is funny. Only instead of braid-tugging, you can tell how angry she is by how much nautical jargon she tries to cram into her sentences.
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Feb 10, 2012 16:06
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Siuan is more distinctive and therefore a better character by virtue of the fact she doesn't have a couple of clones running around who speak and act in the exact same way she does. Still part of the mega-bitch archetype, though.
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Feb 10, 2012 17:31
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Kruller posted:If you're talking about Mat swearing his head off, Jordan wrote all that. He's supposed to be freaking the gently caress out about getting married and that's how he does it. It calms down later in the book. Nah I was just being cute. Mother's milk in a cup. Flaming goat-kisser. I'm up to the last book.
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Feb 10, 2012 18:41
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Neurosis posted:Siuan is more distinctive and therefore a better character by virtue of the fact she doesn't have a couple of clones running around who speak and act in the exact same way she does. Still part of the mega-bitch archetype, though. Well, there's bitches and there's bitches in the Wheel of Time. You'll hate the Wonder Girls whenever they do it, but on the other hand most people tend to like "Hell's Grannies"
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Feb 10, 2012 20:51
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cumsitter posted:Nah I was just being cute. Mother's milk in a cup. Flaming goat-kisser. I'm up to the last book. This approach to foul language is decidedly odd, though it does sort of lend the story a distinct...cadence, I guess you could say. You could have Mat yelling fuckword after fuckword, but instead we get stuff like, "sheep-swallop and bloody buttered onions!"
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Feb 10, 2012 20:59
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Easing The Badger
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Feb 11, 2012 04:12
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Wielding the Oath Rod
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Feb 11, 2012 04:35
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Somewhere on the Internet there used to be a spoof sex scene where every position and technique was given the name of one of the sword-fighting forms. I can't find it now, but if you can it'll pretty much end this derail when you do.
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Feb 11, 2012 11:56
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Jedit posted:Somewhere on the Internet there used to be a spoof sex scene where every position and technique was given the name of one of the sword-fighting forms. I can't find it now, but if you can it'll pretty much end this derail when you do. It was called "The Wise Man's Fear".
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Feb 11, 2012 22:00
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I'm at the part in book 2 where Rand, Hurrin, and Loial are travelling through the other side of the portal stone and Loial stops by a tree to make himself a Sungwood quarterstaff. I know Sungwood was talked about briefly in the first book, but are there any other examples throughout the series where Sungwood is mentioned or performed? Is this another example of Jordan coming up with a cool idea and not being able to find a good place for it to appear again?
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Feb 13, 2012 15:37
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Cartoon Man posted:I'm at the part in book 2 where Rand, Hurrin, and Loial are travelling through the other side of the portal stone and Loial stops by a tree to make himself a Sungwood quarterstaff. I know Sungwood was talked about briefly in the first book, but are there any other examples throughout the series where Sungwood is mentioned or performed? Is this another example of Jordan coming up with a cool idea and not being able to find a good place for it to appear again? End of Book 1, Loial sings to the grave of the Green Man to prevent the site of the Eye getting swallowed by the Blight. And he talks about it some too in the Queen's Blessing I think. There are a few other points later on where it comes up as background flavor -- i.e., Aiel coming to a stedding to trade for sung wood, or loial being amazed to find a sung-wood bed at an inn they're staying at, but that's pretty much it. The ability to sing any given wood thing you want is pretty neat but kinda gets outmoded after a certain point. I think of it as a low-level ability :P
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Feb 13, 2012 15:43
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Just how I always imagined it!
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Feb 13, 2012 16:05
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omnibobb posted:Just how I always imagined it! Love it. This book makes me feel a lot more sorry for Rand than I remember being. I thought there was more Egwene/Nynaeve at the tower too, maybe that's next book? I remember a lot of events but the timeline is all jumbled in my head now. I was seriously surprised when they went to Cairhien in this book, I thought that was like book 4.
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Feb 14, 2012 00:16
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A lot of stuff seems a lot longer when you have no idea how long it's going on for. I remember Egwene's captivity seeming to go on forever, but reading it now, it's over in no time.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:06
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It is very nice to read the books and actually understand what is going on, the Green Man calling Rand 'Child of the Dragon' and such.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:23
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:A lot of stuff seems a lot longer when you have no idea how long it's going on for. I remember Egwene's captivity seeming to go on forever, but reading it now, it's over in no time. I never thought about it this way, you're totally right.
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Feb 14, 2012 01:59
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Alright homies, this week we are finishing the book. What do you all think of taking a week off and reading a trash novel so we don't burn ourselves out on WoT?
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Feb 14, 2012 02:37
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Ehhhh, I'm not close to a burn out yet, I'd personally prefer to keep reading. :edit: Seeing the posts below, I suppose I should say that I'm also ahead, I'm already into Dragon Reborn. Daedalus Esquire fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 03:58
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I usually get through the first 4 books before I take a break and run a "trashy novel" series like Star Wars or Dungeons and Dragons. This read through is much slower than usual for me, but I'm reading in bursts do to work being crazy.
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Feb 14, 2012 04:02
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I started out behind, and finished up 2 last week. Don't know about most people, but this pace is a lot slower than I usually read through the series (I tend to get in a groove and just chew through large amounts). Which is a nice change, taking it slower and trying to look at more stuff. Personally I won't need a break really, but if other people do then it is fine to take one I think. It is interesting how much character development has happened so far. Our heros started off as country folk, and for the most part just wanted to survive. By the end of two you're seeing them all make choices much different from that, and watching that progression through the series may be one of my favorite parts of the whole. How much do you all think that the journey by portal stone and viewing tons of their possible lives cemented Mat and Perrin behind Rand? Mat makes a comment right after, and at the start of 3 Perrin thinks about how the journey convinced him his fate was tied to Rand's. Ingtar's stand is another scene I really like, there aren't many points in the series where someone comes back from the shadow, and the reveal (if you didn't suspect it) makes you think back to his actions, and is pretty poignant.
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Feb 14, 2012 04:23
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Yeah, no break yet. I'm actually reading the three or so chapters a day, and then focusing on other books at the same time. I read the Mistborn trilogy during these first two books! The later books is where we'll need a break anyway, not right now. At this point and time it's actually hard to stop myself from reading MORE of the series, if I want to finish around the time the next book comes out.
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Feb 14, 2012 04:32
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cryptoclastic posted:Yeah, no break yet. I'm actually reading the three or so chapters a day, and then focusing on other books at the same time. I read the Mistborn trilogy during these first two books! The later books is where we'll need a break anyway, not right now. At this point and time it's actually hard to stop myself from reading MORE of the series, if I want to finish around the time the next book comes out. I know what you mean, I've finished 3+TNS and I'm now waiting for a bit so I can jump in again at the start of book 4, so like you, I amused myself with Sanderson's entire cosmere.
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Feb 14, 2012 09:08
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Please, no break. This is a good pace.
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Feb 14, 2012 09:20
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From a plot standpoint, the best places to take a break are after books 3, 6, and 9.
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Feb 14, 2012 12:28
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ZypherIM posted:How much do you all think that the journey by portal stone and viewing tons of their possible lives cemented Mat and Perrin behind Rand? Mat makes a comment right after, and at the start of 3 Perrin thinks about how the journey convinced him his fate was tied to Rand's. That's a good question. One of the really interesting things about WoT is how much the story changes when you think about it from outside the narrated PoV. Jordan does all kinds of neat stuff with point of view that gets overlooked because [fantasy novel]. What do Rand and Perrin seem like to other people who can't hear their internal monologues? What character changes are occurring even in the main characters, when they're on screen but not the PoV?
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Feb 14, 2012 15:57
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's a good question. One of the really interesting things about WoT is how much the story changes when you think about it from outside the narrated PoV. Jordan does all kinds of neat stuff with point of view that gets overlooked because [fantasy novel]. What do Rand and Perrin seem like to other people who can't hear their internal monologues? What character changes are occurring even in the main characters, when they're on screen but not the PoV? This unfortunately gets taken to the extreme in book 10 when we are treated to lots of different viewpoints as to what happened at the end of book 9. I would not have minded that much if book 10 had anything interesting happen in it at all other than page after page of Faile's captivity and Elayne being stupid. Not looking forward to that can of  when we get there...
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Feb 14, 2012 16:03
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Cartoon Man posted:This unfortunately gets taken to the extreme in book 10 when we are treated to lots of different viewpoints as to what happened at the end of book 9. I would not have minded that much if book 10 had anything interesting happen in it at all other than page after page of Faile's captivity and Elayne being stupid. Not looking forward to that can of Not to be a pedant, but your spoiler actually takes place in book 9.
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Feb 14, 2012 19:58
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Jedit posted:Not to be a pedant, but your spoiler actually takes place in book 9. And stretches on into book 10, and book 11... In fact I think the captivity actually happens at the end of book 8. Thats four drat books that Jordan drags that plotline out over. Cartoon Man fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 14, 2012 |
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Feb 14, 2012 20:28
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Cartoon Man posted:And stretches on into book 10, and book 11... You're right, I beg your pardon. The other thing, though, I don't know why you bothered to single it out as it happens in every book.
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Feb 14, 2012 20:57
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