|
Cams would be interesting, are the heads an all new design? Wonder if billet cams for a EJ205T would fit and you could just re-profile them to your desire? Has anyone ever had any experience tuning a DI engine? I've tuned my fair share of N/A's on a motec but they were all EFI. Fundamentally any difference?
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 11:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 14:19 |
|
|
Here's hoping there's a US model without navigation, my phone's got a better resolution screen than those poor proprietary things. On the other hand, if I have to give up cruise control to avoid nav, that's gonna be lovely. Hoping that the Scion customizability shines through on this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 14:49
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:I'm not sure those L1 and L2 open levels are going to apply to the US on the BRZ. I remember awhile back a Subaru rep stated that even the base model (Premium) in the US will have HIDs and Navigation. quote:13 SUBARU BRZ PREMIUM AND LIMITED The model difference stuff is on Subaru's website itself. Splizwarf posted:Here's hoping there's a US model without navigation, my phone's got a better resolution screen than those poor proprietary things. On the other hand, if I have to give up cruise control to avoid nav, that's gonna be lovely. Hoping that the Scion customizability shines through on this. Not on the Subaru, but I'm pretty sure the Scion doesn't have built in Nav, judging by the pictures of the headunit floating around. Literally Lewis Hamilton fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Feb 23, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 14:50
|
|
|
Meatsicle posted:What would you say is a realistic expectation? It depends in how strung out the motor is but you can usually find 5-10% gain for NA and more if you get crazy with the build up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 15:32
|
|
|
The fact that in 2012 cruise control is still considered an "option" is kinda sad. I mean cars now a days are controlled by computers anyway, having to pay money to enable the buttons is retarded. My guess is that the US price of both the FRS and BRZ will be announced at the Dallas auto show, it fits with the whole mid-march estimate. I mean, there's only so much time they can string us along, right?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 16:09
|
|
|
Rabble posted:The fact that in 2012 cruise control is still considered an "option" is kinda sad. I mean cars now a days are controlled by computers anyway, having to pay money to enable the buttons is retarded. I never use cruse control. I'd probably pay to have it removed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 18:17
|
|
|
Brigdh posted:I never use cruse control. I'd probably pay to have it removed. Why have it removed? Does it really add that much weight? At the very least it probably helps retail value when it comes to sell it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 18:31
|
|
|
Rabble posted:The fact that in 2012 cruise control is still considered an "option" is kinda sad. I mean cars now a days are controlled by computers anyway, having to pay money to enable the buttons is retarded. Actually I always thought that it was considered "crucial" for cars being sold in the US. Hell, my 2008 hairdresser mustang v6 doesn't have loving ABS and it still ships with cruise control. Ford sure had their priorities straight :P.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 18:43
|
|
|
Brigdh posted:I never use cruse control. I'd probably pay to have it removed. It's pretty sweet when all your family lives at least 2 states away. Also invaluable for a 1.5 hour (one-way) commute. I could see why you might not use it, but weird to actively want it removed. I guess it craps up the steering wheel, that's fair. I hate all the poo poo added to steering wheels, it gets in the way. The loaded Clubman we tried last year was undrivable with all the poo poo on it (including paddles). Why put all that on the wheel when there's a perfectly good dashboard in front of me? The S2000 is a good example of this. And the E30s, I love that button-riddled control panel.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 18:46
|
|
|
Splizwarf posted:It's pretty sweet when all your family lives at least 2 states away. Also invaluable for a 1.5 hour (one-way) commute. I could see why you might not use it, but weird to actively want it removed. I guess it craps up the steering wheel, that's fair. I drive from Colorado to Wisconsin and back every once and a while to visit family. Still don't use cruse control. I understand why people might like it, but I don't, and I'd prefer not having a potential vacuum leak sitting in the engine bay for something I'll never use.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:08
|
|
|
poo poo, do they still run on vacuum? I mean, mine does but it's 23 years old. I assumed modern engine management wizardry would've a led to a better solution by now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:11
|
|
|
I've only seen vacuum based ones. Its old proven technology. The only alternative I could think of would be some kind of small motor, but that would probably be a constant multiamp draw on the electrical system (when cruse is in use). That would probably cause the alternator to cost more because the additional draw would require a beefier one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:18
|
|
|
surely if the car is dbw its just some extra programming?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:36
|
|
|
Yeah, why not just use the ABS data? Cruise on a drive-by-wire system already has a small motor operating the throttle plate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:40
|
|
|
Yeah the cc will be all electronic. Vacuum my rear end  I also don't like cruise control, but if i had it I simply wouldn't use it. I'd want everything else on the limited model apart from keyless entry.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:41
|
|
|
Brigdh posted:I've only seen vacuum based ones. Its old proven technology. The only alternative I could think of would be some kind of small motor, but that would probably be a constant multiamp draw on the electrical system (when cruse is in use). That would probably cause the alternator to cost more because the additional draw would require a beefier one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:49
|
|
|
the cruise on my 93 subaru was run with a motor or solenoid of some sort that actuated a second throttle cable. The BRZ and 04+ subarus with DBW just use that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 19:52
|
|
|
Lowclock posted:The car already has a drive-by-wire throttle, and this kind of cruise control doesn't take any extra sensors or current or vacuum or weight. It's literally just some bits of code. You're just being super paranoid. I forgot it had DBW. I have not messed with any car that does have DBW. Whether I go for cruse control or not would be down to aesthetics then.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 20:12
|
|
|
Speaking of drive by wire has anyone heard any talk of how responsive it is in the 86? Alot of cars these days add some sort of delay when you let off the throttle that makes for super slow shifting unless you slip the clutch, anyone who drives the 06 and up civic si knows what I mean 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 20:19
|
|
|
Given this is a car for car nerds I'd be really surprised to see anything lovely like that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 20:26
|
|
|
Cham King posted:Speaking of drive by wire has anyone heard any talk of how responsive it is in the 86? Alot of cars these days add some sort of delay when you let off the throttle that makes for super slow shifting unless you slip the clutch, anyone who drives the 06 and up civic si knows what I mean Don't newer Civics also have a clutch delay valve? That poo poo is way worse than DBW.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 20:50
|
|
|
revmoo posted:Don't newer Civics also have a clutch delay valve? That poo poo is way worse than DBW. He's talking about the "rev-hang" that got programmed into some manual cars for emissions reasons. Basically, when you let of the throttle to shift, the computer would hold the throttle open a little bit to prevent unburnt fuel or some-such. It was extremely annoying because it made it really hard to drive smoothly. Only a few cars that I know of suffer from this, the Civic Si and the GC are the two the come to mind. quote:Speaking of drive by wire has anyone heard any talk of how responsive it is in the 86? Alot of cars these days add some sort of delay when you let off the throttle that makes for super slow shifting unless you slip the clutch, anyone who drives the 06 and up civic si knows what I mean I'd venture to say that, even if it is an issue, Subaru ECUs are so simple to tune and reflash that there will likely be a free, downloadable ECU reflash fix within months of release. All you would need is a laptop and a tatrix cable to do the reflash yourself. The open source tuning community is really big for Subaru/Mitsu; despite being practically non-existent for other manufactures.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2012 21:01
|
|
|
Oh god lift-off delay and clutch delay are the worst things that happened to cars. With the 996 I actually tied down the button that told the car the clutch was in. Of course, if I put the clutch in with cruise control on the engine would race to infinity, but at least I could actually heel-toe downshift properly. I'm actually getting mad thinking about this. If I could replace the DBW with a cable in my car I would do it in a hot second.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2012 00:48
|
|
|
I don't recall Chris Harris complaining about it (throttle response) in his review, so if he doesn't mind, I'm sure I would never notice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2012 10:04
|
|
|
Yeah, Monkey Harris owns a GT3 RS 4.0 and as such would probably know from throttle response and yet he's rather excited sounding about this car despite it being 1/7th what his 4.0 costs. I'm pretty confident there's not going to be any throttle delays or other FBW hiccups that interfere with the driving pleasure of these cars. And John Simister is another one of the better reveiewers at EVO. http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/276016/driven_toyota_gt_86.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/road-tests/toyota-gt-86-6284861.html Independent article posted:I am pleased to report that all of the promise is fulfilled, and more. The engine is a keen, fizzy thing, its note a mix of rasp and throb, its response instant and wonderfully easy to meter. This, plus crisp, sensitive, natural-feeling steering – it's electrically assisted, amazingly, and surely the best yet of its type – fills the driver with the intoxicating confidence of being fully, entirely in control, even on a damp, slippery test track. More power in a corner brings on a gentle drift, helped by the limited-slip differential; this car does exactly what you want it to, in a way many recently qualified drivers will probably never have experienced before now. http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/276025/driven_subaru_brz.html
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2012 10:29
|
|
|
oRenj9 posted:I'd venture to say that, even if it is an issue, Subaru ECUs are so simple to tune and reflash that there will likely be a free, downloadable ECU reflash fix within months of release. All you would need is a laptop and a tatrix cable to do the reflash yourself. The open source tuning community is really big for Subaru/Mitsu; despite being practically non-existent for other manufactures. I've been slowly playing with my 06 WRX using this stuff and it is amazingly good considering how much of it is just fan developed. It is amazing having 70% of the functionality of a Motec or Autronic sitting in your own car waiting to be played with. I've heard "Open ECU" touted around the forums a lot for this car, anybody know if its simply the unprotected subie ECU or if it's actually facilitated for tuning even more?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2012 13:10
|
|
|
oRenj9 posted:Only a few cars that I know of suffer from this, the Civic Si and the GC are the two the come to mind.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2012 13:53
|
|
|
Ecstatic posted:I've heard "Open ECU" touted around the forums a lot for this car, anybody know if its simply the unprotected subie ECU or if it's actually facilitated for tuning even more? OpenECU seems to be the project behind the Tactrix OBD2 cable and software and not necessarily related to the tuning software (RomRaider).
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2012 15:08
|
|
|
Sorry when I said "Open ECU" I meant as in unlocked. Yeh Open ECU is a program is the thing that lets you download your current map and reflash your changed maps. For the known cars (most WRX's STI's and a few Forrester's and Liberty's) there aren't any mystery tables left, although some are pretty poorly defined/explained.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2012 16:56
|
|
|
Toyota ECUs are typically locked down tighter than a bank vault so this is one area in glad Subaru seems to have taken care of. It was mentioned somewhere from an "official" source that given the enthusiast interest in this car the ECU would be fairly open but i would imagine this just refers to OBD-type info and not actual maps or settings or anything
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 00:27
|
|
|
ROFLBOT posted:Toyota ECUs are typically locked down tighter than a bank vault so this is one area in glad Subaru seems to have taken care of. It was mentioned somewhere from an "official" source that given the enthusiast interest in this car the ECU would be fairly open but i would imagine this just refers to OBD-type info and not actual maps or settings or anything
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 03:09
|
|
|
The Casualty posted:According to the Subaru guy at the chicago auto show, the only thing Toyota engineered in the power train was the direct injection system. Everything else was Subaru. Hopefully that means the ECU too... What about the Toyota tranny?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 03:14
|
|
|
I'm on my phone at the moment but I posted a news article a few pages back that said the ecu will have connectivity to smartphones for data logging and access to a whole heap of telemetry features via other means. So I can only assume eventually they will have tuning functionality readily available.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 04:15
|
|
|
ROFLBOT posted:Toyota ECUs are typically locked down tighter than a bank vault so this is one area in glad Subaru seems to have taken care of. It was mentioned somewhere from an "official" source that given the enthusiast interest in this car the ECU would be fairly open but i would imagine this just refers to OBD-type info and not actual maps or settings or anything They said the same thing about the R35 ecu... look how that turned out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 05:40
|
|
|
Brigdh posted:What about the Toyota tranny? I thought they were both Aisen units.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 06:19
|
|
|
Laserface posted:I'm on my phone at the moment but I posted a news article a few pages back that said the ecu will have connectivity to smartphones for data logging and access to a whole heap of telemetry features via other means. So I can only assume eventually they will have tuning functionality readily available. OBD2 already does this. It's read-only by design as far as I know. I have a ScanGauge which will give me all kinds of telemetry. I've never actually looked how ecu real time programming works but I assumed it used a different interface or a complete reprogramming (hack) of what can be done through the OBD2 port. What they're offering seems to be just connectivity, which yeah, is kinda neat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 08:15
|
|
|
D C posted:They said the same thing about the R35 ecu... look how that turned out. I dont think Nissan ever said the R35 ECU would be completely unlocked from the factory for tuning purposes. In fact i dont think any manufacturer would do that, it just opens up a can of worms regarding emissions and safety compliance or when warranty claims are made because of a bad tune or whatever. It stands to reason that any ECU security however basic (eg Subaru, Mitsubishi), gives them an out from any legal liability ("we've done our bit to prevent tampering"), its just that Toyota uses ECU designs that make them impossible to modify. You cant remap or change them at all. ROFLBOT fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Feb 25, 2012 |
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 10:51
|
|
|
darknrgy posted:OBD2 already does this. It's read-only by design as far as I know. I have a ScanGauge which will give me all kinds of telemetry. I've never actually looked how ecu real time programming works but I assumed it used a different interface or a complete reprogramming (hack) of what can be done through the OBD2 port. What they're offering seems to be just connectivity, which yeah, is kinda neat. The Subie turning is all done by OB2, it's not "live" per say, you log via OB2, make changes to the map on a laptop and then reflash your ECU. It isn't perfect but it's about as good as you can ever expect an OEM ecu to be.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 10:59
|
|
|
I don't what I've seen of the F-RS center stack: I like what I've seen of the BRZ stack better. I think this might only be in the Limited trim:  Is Scion going to have an option that will include this improved center stack?
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 18:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 14:19 |
|
|
I haven't heard that the Scion version would get automatic climate control, so no. The "Premium" BRZ will have a similar setup to the Scion, only the "Limited" has auto climate.
|
|
#
?
Feb 25, 2012 18:46
|
|