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U.T. Raptor posted:For all intents and purposes, the sphere grid was sort of unique to each character unless you started grinding like crazy and min-maxing everyone, since each character started off in their own section locked off from everyone else. Yup, and if you also consider that it's only naturally between mid to end game that you start moving into a second characters grid (unless you're Kihmari(SP?) and then it takes 5 minutes) then for proper spack out customisation it'll really be end game that you start getting what you want. So the sphere grid does in a way lock you down to your class for a while, although yes, you have the choice of moving somewhere else halfway or from the beginning (hi Expert Grid, how are you?) this is assuming you're taking the whole path. This means I've yet to do my playthrough where I take Yuna down Aurons path just to see her little whacky stick do thousands of damage yet Auron does peanuts.
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Mar 1, 2012 10:55
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The White Dragon posted:I really do wish that the Sphere Grid was unique for each character. It just doesn't feel right going around the board picking up every skill ever, but at the same time it feels wrong going through the board skipping all but the most choice skills. It's my favorite leveling system, though, because I'm a sucker for shiny colors. I personally disagree, but this ground has been tread before, and I don't think another argument about customizable but samey vs restricted but unique. However, I must say, it's stupidly fun stat-maxing Yuna, and having her go and quick-hitting for tens of thousands of damage per shot. Goddamn, I really hope FFX Vita is the International version. I want that Expert grid so loving badly.
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Mar 1, 2012 10:59
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kalonZombie posted:And that was about the only thing that game did right. Don't do this poo poo. Every Final Fantasy is good in this thread, even the ones I don't like, treat it like so so we can avoid a GameFAQs-level discussion. Frocobo posted:Speaking of monsters, is it just me or did FFX have WAY too many recolors, like even more than Final Fantasy games usually have? You'd occasionally get a new enemy type, but the rest of them seemed to be some variety of wolf or shell monster thing with corresponding terrain on top of it. It did, yea. People already explained the reason, but I'm not gonna deny that I missed some variety in FFX.
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Mar 1, 2012 13:07
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FF7, FF8, and FF9 were the best at avoiding palette/design swaps, if memory serves.
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Mar 1, 2012 13:52
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The White Dragon posted:I really do wish that the Sphere Grid was unique for each character. It just doesn't feel right going around the board picking up every skill ever, but at the same time it feels wrong going through the board skipping all but the most choice skills. It's my favorite leveling system, though, because I'm a sucker for shiny colors. Captain Bravo posted:Also, when you take the "unique" sphere grid and run with it, you get something like the FFXIII system, which was pretty universally despised. That said, I still prefer FFIX's system. The equipment thing was a little odd, but it made for very flexible and customizable characters in the long run while still keeping each of them unique from each other.
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Mar 1, 2012 14:59
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Captain Bravo posted:Also, when you take the "unique" sphere grid and run with it, you get something like the FFXIII system, which was pretty universally despised. Basically the most interesting thing you could do with the Crystarium was skip abilities, and then only in some cases for some characters.
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Mar 1, 2012 15:39
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Serifina posted:See, I actually hated the Sphere Grid system. It's the spheres themselves that killed it for me - having points where I was missing a sphere to unlock a node infuriated me, 'cause I was stuck with the choice of skipping it and wasting xp to come back and unlock it, or having the character stuck at that spot until I got the sphere necessary. That's mostly an early-game concern, though. Starting in the Mi'ihen Highroad (which is really not very far into the game), you can pretty easily get any sort of sphere you want since random enemies drop each of the types. As you progress through the game, you're showered in increasingly more spheres than you have sphere levels to use. And that's before getting into ___ Distiller items, or (PAL/International) Extract ___ abilities. Having said that, I *do* agree that it's frustrating before you get to that point, especially for lack of ability spheres. I just don't think it's all that big an impact on the game overall; I feel it's more of a temporary annoyance.
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Mar 1, 2012 15:52
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Yeah, except that was where fatigue for the game also caught up with me. I hate FFX as a whole, not just the Sphere Grid. The Highroad was a long, dull jog down thoroughly uninteresting terrain with an utterly ridiculous random battle rate for the territory... and came right after the epitome of bad voice acting in the game, the ever-infamous laughing scene. I did actually complete the game, believe it or not, with 100%, because I was playing with two friends at the time and they kept me from getting so furious and bored I quit, but still... that game had problems.
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Mar 1, 2012 16:00
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I prefer the extremes myself, as they're nice and simple. My favorite systems are FF5's "Anyone can be anything, feel free to mix and match jobs to create whichever broken combo you want." and FF4's "Everyone's abilities are set, make use of your set party, items, and wits to get through this dungeon," though this is one of the few areas where The After Years actually improved on its predecessor by giving you a ton of different parties and characters, actually requiring you to use some clever strategies at parts. The problem with hybrid systems is that some characters are simply going to be more useful than others. Why use Relm when Terra has much better equipment options and Sabin has a more useful ability? There's similar problems with FF7 and 8, except replace "abilties" with "limits." Granted, it's not a huge problem, and FF7 on have some pretty innovative ways to gain spells/abilities/stats. But there's also something to be said for simplicity, as the simpler something is, the harder it is to find a way to gently caress it up somewhere. But generally I like the way most of the FF's approach improving your characters, even if some are much better than others.
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Mar 1, 2012 16:39
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S-Alpha posted:Goddamn, I really hope FFX Vita is the International version. I want that Expert grid so loving badly. It really is the best thing. I generally don't stray that far from the intended path anyway, but there's still fun stuff to do like making a quick detour to give Auron Haste at the same time as Tidus. 
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Mar 1, 2012 17:19
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Mega64 posted:I prefer the extremes myself, as they're nice and simple. My favorite systems are FF5's "Anyone can be anything, feel free to mix and match jobs to create whichever broken combo you want." and FF4's "Everyone's abilities are set, make use of your set party, items, and wits to get through this dungeon," though this is one of the few areas where The After Years actually improved on its predecessor by giving you a ton of different parties and characters, actually requiring you to use some clever strategies at parts. 11, ever since the level cap got raised up to 99 and several job adjustments were introduced, has had a pretty big rise in support job variety; you see a lot more combinations that actually make sense from a build standpoint now. Dragoons have a fair bit more freedom now that they can control what their wyvern buddy does, for one thing. Dark Knight/Monk, under certain conditions, is actually terrifyingly effective these days, when two years ago showing up to a party like that would get you laughed out of the group. No longer are Dancers and Thieves locked into subbing Ninja, either, it's crazy.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:21
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Serifina posted:and came right after the epitome of bad voice acting in the game, the ever-infamous laughing scene. After a decade people still don't realize it was intentionally bad and awkward (hence everyone giving them wierd looks?) and that in the japanese tidus sounds even worse and like a mutant seagull? I mean, you can take shots at the FFX translation for quite a few things (yuna's voiceactor having to lip synch with the character, leading to the exact same incredibly fast "ok" throughout the entire game. Giving Flee the sound quee that makes everyone hate Tidus, ect) but  Frocobo posted:Speaking of monsters, is it just me or did FFX have WAY too many recolors, like even more than Final Fantasy games usually have? You'd occasionally get a new enemy type, but the rest of them seemed to be some variety of wolf or shell monster thing with corresponding terrain on top of it. FFX might be a videogame and incapable of loving me, but I'll defend it to the death. (besides the dumb parts squeenix added) darealkooky fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 1, 2012 |
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Mar 1, 2012 17:31
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I like both "everyone can do everything, though not everything at a given moment, and you're always free to change/choose the exact details" and "everyone is innately specialized and there's not a thing you can do about it" systems. Given the choice though, I do find myself enjoying the latter slightly more, which is why FF4, FF6, FF9, and FF10 are near and dear to my heart. FF10 then gets bonus points in my book for turning around and letting me enjoy it the other way *too*, in the endgame. (Same goes for FF6 to a lesser degree.) Nothing like having my cake and eating it too. Oddly enough then, that FF8 is actually the FF game I know the best and have played the most. I guess I just really get a kick out of its breakability.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:35
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The Crystarium bugged me for it's linearity too. It never felt like there was any choice or diversity. I see X's Sphere Grid, despite being made before XII's License Board and XIII's Crystarium, as being somewhere between the two. License Board - too much freedom, not locked down to any kind of class (not including this wonderful sounding international version Crystarium - no freedom, while being able to choose which class you unlock, each of them was as already been stated very linear. The Sphere Grid however, is the second best for customisation in all of the Final Fantasies (Counting IV onwards, V being the best). While you start in a particular "class", you're given many opportunities to branch off whenever you like, and you're rarely punished for going off the path. There isn't a "wrong" way to do it. You might consider that the Via Purifico part where you're just using Yuna, if you took her down Auron's path she'd be pretty poo poo at magic, but what's that? Yuna's stats are passed on to the Aeon's? That's okay, all that Str makes the Aeons ace at pounding on the enemy instead of Yuna being outright magicky. I digress, but in my opinion the Sphere Grid is the most flexible character and experience system of all the final fantasies, without sacrificing much in exchange.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:45
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I like prefer the extremes, though I think each character being unique mechanically kinda sucks in some situations. In more modern RPGs, where what character you have in your party only matters in combat and your whole squad is still technically around, I can enjoy each character having a specialised role. If everyone has their own niche in combat, but all the characters who aren't in your battle party are waiting in the airship or at the end of time or whatever you can end up having to compromise mechanical usefulness to take a character you find entertaining. Or taking along a character you dislike because they are very useful in battle.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:50
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darealkooky posted:After a decade people still don't realize it was intentionally bad and awkward (hence everyone giving them wierd looks?) and that in the japanese tidus sounds even worse and like a mutant seagull? I mean, you can take shots at the FFX translation for quite a few things (yuna's voiceactor having to lip synch with the character, leading to the exact same incredibly fast "ok" throughout the entire game. Giving Flee the sound quee that makes everyone hate Tidus, ect) but I'm aware that it was intentionally bad and awkward. This doesn't change the fact that it's a very easy to point to scene as an emblem for the horribly bad voice acting throughout the entirety of the game. Would have have preferred that I said Scene 12, Part 4, Line 5?
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Mar 1, 2012 17:54
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Prison Warden posted:I like prefer the extremes, though I think each character being unique mechanically kinda sucks in some situations. In more modern RPGs, where what character you have in your party only matters in combat and your whole squad is still technically around, I can enjoy each character having a specialised role. If everyone has their own niche in combat, but all the characters who aren't in your battle party are waiting in the airship or at the end of time or whatever you can end up having to compromise mechanical usefulness to take a character you find entertaining. Or taking along a character you dislike because they are very useful in battle. Yes, this is a problem - if a character becomes redundant in the mechanics of the game, you end up using them less and caring less about them as a character. Even if you find a character entertaining in the story but frustrating to use, you'll be naturally less inclined to use them. This is where having a degree of flexibility comes in. When the game comes down to having a highly physical character, a highly magical character, and a mixed character, anyone else who is the less of those is going to be put to the side. In FF7, for example, I never used Cait Sith because stat wise, he had no real use. There are characters better at magic than him and better in physical attack than him. When it comes to a point in a game where you know you're forced to use a particular character that is outclassed in every way by the other characters, and you never use that character, you tend to start disliking that part of hte game every time you come to it.
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Mar 1, 2012 17:58
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Choray posted:It really is the best thing. I generally don't stray that far from the intended path anyway, but there's still fun stuff to do like making a quick detour to give Auron Haste at the same time as Tidus. Amusingly enough, most OCD people would never pic the Expert grid to begin with, simply because it has less nodes than the regular one and thus you can't max out every single stat on it.
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Mar 1, 2012 21:30
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Serifina posted:I'm aware that it was intentionally bad and awkward. This doesn't change the fact that it's a very easy to point to scene as an emblem for the horribly bad voice acting throughout the entirety of the game. Would have have preferred that I said Scene 12, Part 4, Line 5? Yes, the voice acting in FFX is awkward and subpar, and blah blah blah, but this is clearly a losing argument.
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Mar 1, 2012 21:36
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Guys, let's remember that this is a Final Fantasy 7 thread.
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Mar 1, 2012 21:37
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Brainamp posted:Guys, let's remember that this is a Final Fantasy 7 thread. Are you blind? On this very page: Elentor posted:Don't do this poo poo. Every Final Fantasy is good in this thread, even the ones I don't like, treat it like so so we can avoid a GameFAQs-level discussion.
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Mar 1, 2012 21:54
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Olibu posted:Are you blind? On this very page: I mean that for argument purposes every Final Fantasy, while flawed, is a good game (even 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14) but yes, I've stated multiple times you guys are good to talk about other Final Fantasies in this thread, I don't care, just keep the discussion enjoyable (posting about posting lowers the quality). I wish I could stop saying these things already. We're barely about halfway in the game, I'm sure by the end of the thread everything that has to be said about FF7 will be said. If you want to talk about FF7, which yea is preferable, feel free to start talking about it and people will pick up from there. In related news I'll be updating this thread next week (probably monday) and I'll try to make it a double update and I'm absolutely sure at least one from the next 5 updates will be packed with tinfoil hats.
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Mar 1, 2012 22:43
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PYF real-life instances of FFVII weapons.
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Mar 2, 2012 00:09
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The dude's Buster Sword is impressive, and must have taken some time and effort. The dude's build is more impressive, and must have taken even more time and effort.
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Mar 2, 2012 00:21
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Pretty sure you need a build like that to even hold it.
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Mar 2, 2012 00:22
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Or you could be part of an experimental program by shady corporate/government types to give you superpowers. Six and half a dozen really.
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Mar 2, 2012 00:31
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Woebin posted:PYF real-life instances of FFVII weapons. Don't look at the related videos! Buster Sword usage IRL. With that guy. The related videos to this one give out a major spoiler, so don't look if you haven't played the game: And behold The power of Masamune! Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 2, 2012 |
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Mar 2, 2012 00:39
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Pesky Splinter posted:Don't look at the related videos! I've always loved how the thing is more of a sword in name only.
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Mar 2, 2012 01:30
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Phoenix Taichou posted:The Crystarium bugged me for it's linearity too. It never felt like there was any choice or diversity. FFXIII-2 gets rid of the choice, to an extent, and is the better for it. Although it may help that you only have two characters to worry about (plus monsters, who level up differently.) Effectively you have three classes to start, and three you unlock through levelling, and you just choose which class to level. It does feel like a lot less effort and micromanagement than in most FF games.
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Mar 2, 2012 02:09
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Woebin posted:PYF real-life instances of FFVII weapons. I'll take the hot guy.
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Mar 2, 2012 03:48
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Azure_Horizon posted:I'll take the hot guy.
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Mar 2, 2012 03:58
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Xander77 posted:Is he, like, really really short, or is it just the sword? The sword is REALLY tall.
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Mar 2, 2012 04:00
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Kloro posted:FFXIII-2 gets rid of the choice, to an extent, and is the better for it. Although it may help that you only have two characters to worry about (plus monsters, who level up differently.) Effectively you have three classes to start, and three you unlock through levelling, and you just choose which class to level. It does feel like a lot less effort and micromanagement than in most FF games. You my friend have caught on to what they are doing with game play in XIII and XIII-2.(and possibly versus but too bad that game is actually a myth that doesn't exist  )Reducing micromanaging. Healing between battles? Thats kinda dumb. If we were doing this as realistically as possible, chances are Im not leaving my dead team member on the ground because I didn't bring enough revives with me. While those two games may not be perfect they did a good number of things right.
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Mar 2, 2012 04:16
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Woebin posted:PYF real-life instances of FFVII weapons. The planet's dyin', Chad!
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Mar 2, 2012 04:39
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Pesky Splinter posted:And behold The power of Masamune! Okay, quick break. I know I could just hop on wikipedia for this but I want to hear people here  about it.What exactly IS the Masamune? Because it's shown up in almost every jrpg from Chrono Trigger to Final Fantasy. From its prevalence I'd say it was a japanese Excaliber, but I know there's gotta be more to it than that.
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Mar 2, 2012 05:09
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Triskelli posted:Okay, quick break. I know I could just hop on wikipedia for this but I want to hear people here Well, CT's instance of the Masamune is more a localization quirk than what it was actually called. I think it was originally called Grandleon or something, which is much more fitting for a broadsword.
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Mar 2, 2012 05:16
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Triskelli posted:What exactly IS the Masamune? Because it's shown up in almost every jrpg from Chrono Trigger to Final Fantasy. From its prevalence I'd say it was a japanese Excaliber, but I know there's gotta be more to it than that. More interestingly: its prevalence in JRPGs is an American thing! It was Ted Woolsey who decided to insert it into the Chrono series. Nobody knows why. It doesn't appear in the Japanese versions of those games.  e:f,b. Soricidus fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Mar 2, 2012 |
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Mar 2, 2012 05:23
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Edit: Beaten over the head.
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Mar 2, 2012 05:25
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Zeikier posted:Well, CT's instance of the Masamune is more a localization quirk than what it was actually called. I think it was originally called Grandleon or something, which is much more fitting for a broadsword. Specifically, it was a result of Ted Woolsey's policy that anything exotic or foreign to its Japanese audience should remain so in English, so the broadsword that was named Grandleon (with the two little sprites being Grand and Leon) in Japanese was renamed the Masamune for the localisation.
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Mar 2, 2012 05:42
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Soricidus posted:Masamune was a famous medieval swordsmith. His surviving works are priceless. Think Stradivarius, but sharper and less musical. That's about it, really. One of the tests of the sharpness of a sword was to put it in a stream with the edge facing upstream, and to float a leaf towards it. If the leaf was cut, it was a good sword. They say that Masamune's swords could never be tested because the leaf somehow always floated around the blade. The blades of his pupil, Muramasa, when put to this test, sliced the leaf into a thousand tiny pieces.
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Mar 2, 2012 05:51
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