Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

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FullLeatherJacket: Dec 30, 2004; Chiunque pu� essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett

Perhaps instead of selling them, they could have them all shot.

I think this is the compromise you're looking for.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 21:28

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# ? May 4, 2024 05:22

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I'd be happy with that.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 21:39

fat gay nonce: May 13, 2003; _{actual penis length: |-----------|}

Winner, PWM POTM January

Some of those Rangers players could go on to have a career in turkey or a similar league, please do not shoot them, please give turkey a chance

# ? Mar 3, 2012 21:43

Eric Cantonese: Dec 21, 2004; You should hear my accent.

Pissflops posted:

Don't we already have pre-contract agreements? Would accomplish the same thing without a transfer fee.

From what I understand, pre-contract agreements are not great for deterring people because the only thing you end up guaranteeing is that the player will definitely be able to move on a Bosman after a certain period of time and if the player wants to move somewhere else in the mean time, you only end up getting a guy who doesn't want to be at your club if you enforce it.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:07

El Hefe: Oct 31, 2006; You coulda had a V8/
Instead of a tre-eight slug to yo' cranium/
I got six and I'm aimin' 'em/
Will I bust or keep you guessin'

Marca published a graphic today comparing ticket prices and attendances across England, Spain, Italy and Germany.

http://www.marca.com/2012/03/02/multimedia/graficos/1330720526.html

apparently Genoa has the 3rd most expensive tickets in Europe what the christ

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:19

Scikar: Nov 20, 2005; 5? Seriously?

If there was no transfer window system then the Fabregas saga would have continued every single week instead of least being put on hold through most of the actual season. That alone is reason enough to keep it in place.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:24

The Saurus: Dec 3, 2006; by Smythe

Except no one is arguing for that, they're arguing for special dispensation when clubs need to sell their assets in order to stay afloat. Apparently Rangers have to cancel the contracts of their players to save wages and lose all of their investment instead of selling them and getting money back because of the transfer rules, and that's just ridiculous and incredibly harsh for teams in a bad financial position.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:42

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Maybe they should have paid their tax bill?

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:45

fat gay nonce: May 13, 2003; _{actual penis length: |-----------|}

Winner, PWM POTM January

The Saurus posted:

Except no one is arguing for that, they're arguing for special dispensation when clubs need to sell their assets in order to stay afloat. Apparently Rangers have to cancel the contracts of their players to save wages and lose all of their investment instead of selling them and getting money back because of the transfer rules, and that's just ridiculous and incredibly harsh for teams in a bad financial position.

wow, poor Rangers, that's really terrible, but why are they in that position?

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:56

The Saurus: Dec 3, 2006; by Smythe

It's the job of the law to deal with their actions, forcing them to release all their assets for nothing which actually reduces their ability to pay their tax bill falls under the heading of cruel and unusual punishment imo.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:58

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I think it's because they attempted to gain an unfair advantage over other teams in their league by not paying their tax bill?

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:58

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

The Saurus posted:

cruel and unusual punishment imo.

Don't be loving daft.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:59

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Its not the law that are responsible for how they solve their tax problem, just that it is solved

# ? Mar 3, 2012 22:59

Flayer: Sep 13, 2003; by Fluffdaddy; Buglord

They should force Rangers to go bust and start again from the Highlands league. And call themselves Rangers 2.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 23:03

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

I don't think anybody should 'force' rangers to go bust but i dont think they or other clubs should be given preferential treatment in order to avoid it. What sort of precedent and example would that set?

Portsmouth can get hosed however.

# ? Mar 3, 2012 23:04

TwoDogs1Cup: May 28, 2008; DOUGIE DOUGIE DOUGIE! MY LOVE, HE MAKES MY EMPTY HEART FULL! DOUGIE! THE BEST FOREVER THE BEST DOUGIEEE! <3 <3 - TwoDougies1Cup

Pissflops posted:

Portsmouth can get hosed however.

This I can agree with

# ? Mar 3, 2012 23:13

The Hausu Usher: Feb 9, 2010; Screaming is the only useful thing that we can do.

Maybe if Rangers announced their intent 2 weeks or so earlier they could have sold all their players legit? I dunno, even if they didn't announce their intended administration in January they could have quietly encouraged bids for their players? ...OH But Craig Whyte's intention is to sink the club, inherit the big assets & then rent Ibrox/Murray Park out to nu-Rangers for some steady income he can pass down to his kids - so this point is moot anyway.

Is it really true that if a player has his contract cancelled he can't join another club until the new window? Because this would make for some hilarious compensation package struggles over there.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 14:11

greazeball: Feb 4, 2003

Portsmouth supporters, remember this name: Majid Pishyar :siren:

Complete fuckwit blowhard scum who's left a trail of destruction through Austria, Switzerland and likely Portugal soon. Process of leaving club in ruins takes approximately 4 years.

A second club in Switzerland's ten-team top league has gone bankrupt this week (also don't forget FC Sion, who were fined and docked 36 points after their CL ineligible players/lawsuit fiasco). FC Servette were promoted at the end of last season and haven't paid their players since Christmas. They play in a 35,000 seat stadium built by the city of Geneva for the Euros in 2008. When Pishyar took control of the club in 2008 they had no debt and assets of �2.2 million.

He'd previously wrecked Admira Wacker, then in the Austiran 2nd division (references on his CV at that time were �1.2 unpaid to Rapid Vienna for a sponsorship deal) before moving on to Geneva, home of his investment company 32 Group. Everywhere he goes he gives the "league champions in 4 years, Chapions League winners in 10" speech and then fucks off after none of this magically happens. His Portuguese team, Beira Mar, are already in need of cash.

He'll have time on his hands again soon and obviously will be warming up his League and European Champions speech, so watch out for this scumbag!

# ? Mar 4, 2012 14:32

MattWPBS: Jun 17, 2004; I am the law, but an easily bribed kind of law.

The Saurus posted:

It's the job of the law to deal with their actions, forcing them to release all their assets for nothing which actually reduces their ability to pay their tax bill falls under the heading of cruel and unusual punishment imo.

There's two things at play here. One is that Rangers can't sell players to other clubs in Scotland due to the transfer window being closed, the other is that Rangers are going to have to make some employees redundant due to not having enough money coming in. Not being able to sell players means having to keep paying wages, making people redundant means you don't have to. This isn't them not being able to convert their assets, this is them being able to reduce their outgoings.

# ? Mar 4, 2012 18:11

Allyn: Sep 4, 2007; I love Charlie from Busted!

Pissflops posted:

If a club can't pay a player's wages, the player will have to find an alternative source of income, or wait until the transfer window opens. I don't think free agents - for whatever reason - can be signed outside of the transfer window.

quote:

Players who are out of contract and do not have a club can be signed outside of the transfer window if they are unattached free agents when the window closes.

Just a little note, BBC Scotland has an article up which says this isn't actually the case:

quote:

Players who have been made redundant are usually treated as having been unemployed during the previous transfer window.

What if the player cancels their contract with the club?

If a player cancels his own contract with a club, then he would not be able to sign for another club until the transfer window opens in the summer.

Which is good; at least players aren't getting punished for a club's failures. They would still be restricted by the free transfer deadline, however, but I think that's in March/April for England -- I'd imagine it's the same for Scotland.

As for the Rangers mess, they've apparently had the players at the training ground all day to try and get paycuts sorted out. The players apparently wanted wage deferrals rather than cuts, which the administrators rejected out of hand. They're now trying to work out paycuts on a player-by-player basis. Meanwhile, Gregg Wylde and Mervan Celik both agreed to voluntary redundancy without any remuneration package. Pretty nice gestures from them.

# ? Mar 6, 2012 20:35

Ho Chi Meeeeee: Jun 13, 2008; let me shovel out your brains
hang my image in your skull
so I can be the vision
in your nightmares from now on

We have lost only �3.9m this last year and we are on track to breaking even and making a profit for the first time in ages. Mike Ashley may finally be winning me over.

# ? Mar 9, 2012 09:25

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Martin Samuel was banging on in the Mail last week how Newcastle fans are still really pissed off over not spending the �35m off Carroll. Even though we've now got Ba and Cisse because supposedly the money has just gone to wages for the new contracts for Krul/Colo

# ? Mar 9, 2012 10:04

ydaetskcoR: Apr 29, 2008

I keep telling people he's actually done wonders for the club, especially seeing how hosed we were under Shepherd.

Then of course he goes and opens his big fat gob or does something ridiculously lovely and I start screaming for the fat oval office's head.

Also, what the poo poo is going on here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/22/real-madrid-holiday-resort-uae ?

Are Real mad? I thought the insane property market in the UAE (and China) had collapsed already.

# ? Mar 22, 2012 20:43

peanut-: Feb 17, 2004; Fun Shoe

I doubt they're putting up any of the capital. Probably just got some revenue or ownership rights in return for use of the name.

# ? Mar 22, 2012 22:41

Fists Up: Apr 9, 2007

El Hefe posted:

Marca published a graphic today comparing ticket prices and attendances across England, Spain, Italy and Germany.

http://www.marca.com/2012/03/02/multimedia/graficos/1330720526.html

apparently Genoa has the 3rd most expensive tickets in Europe what the christ

What are these figures coming from? Average season ticket? Because some of those spanish ones seem really high and I would have thought the english ones are low.

# ? Mar 22, 2012 23:13

belgend: Mar 6, 2008; me when The Club do another win

Some newspapers over here publicized a list of the annual average wages of clubs in Belgium, and it surprises me how much of a difference there is not only with the big European clubs, but also with small clubs (albeit from big leagues). There are 2.Bundesliga teams with about double the wage salary the biggest paying club in Belgium. It's madness really

# ? Mar 28, 2012 20:45

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Football Finances, come buy Portsmouth

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17598239

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17598239 posted:

Pompey Supporters' Trust spokesman Scott Mclachlan says it needs to raise �8m to save Portsmouth. The PST recently launched a share scheme inviting Pompey fans to deposit a refundable minimum of �100 into a protected account. If sufficient numbers respond, the PST will undertake due diligence and develop an offer to buy the club.

"We would need �8m to buy the club but that does not have to all come from shares," Mclachlan told BBC Solent. The PST scheme is supported by Portsmouth North MP Penny Mordaunt while administrator Trevor Birch described the move as a "sensible way forward".

So far Mclachlan says it has had hundreds of applicants, but admitted this would need to run into thousands for the scheme to be a success.

"We think it is going well but it is early days to start counting numbers," added Mclachlan. We've got to spend the next three of four weeks convincing people this is a viable option. We've had hundreds so far and there is no shame in that figure. The majority will look at the details and decide whether they can contribute themselves. There are probably going to be people across Hampshire and abroad who cannot afford that number but they can look to go in with a syndicate. But the initial reaction is very positive."

Portsmouth are currently in administration and facing relegation to League One but are in danger of going out of business if a buyer cannot be found in the summer.

"We need to put as much money in the pot as possible to go to Trevor Birch and convince him that we are credible," said Mclachlan. The �8m we need can also come from local businesses or from high-network individuals or from partners who can only go so far and want the fans to be involved. This should be a community club, but there is a lot of work still to be done. We are pleased that the city is embracing this and that more people are getting involved. This is a football club in dire need of some TLC and I'm sure the city will rally around to make this happen."

Was Swansea's version of the fan-owned club similar or did they go for the German 49-51 style? I can't think of a completely fan owned club that high up the table.

And speaking of German owned football clubs;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17614317 posted:

Rangers' administrator received four "best and final" bids for the club by its 1700 BST Wednesday deadline.Former Rangers director Paul Murray's Blue Knights consortium is joined by interested parties from Germany, the United States and Singapore.
Joint administrator David Whitehouse said: "Following our announcement on 30 March, that best and final bids for control of Rangers Football Club should be submitted by 5 April, I can confirm we have received four bids by close of business.
"The bids are structured in various ways, but I would describe them as positive and constructive. The administration team will now analyse these bids over the forthcoming days and hold discussions with relevant parties to gain further understanding of the details of their bids.

The bid from Germany is the biggest surprise, with the group or individuals involved having avoided the headlines until now. Indeed, prominent German-based Rangers fan David McAllister, the prime minister of Lower Saxony, told BBC Scotland that he had heard nothing of a bid from his country and that he personally is not involved.
Club 9 Sports had long been regarded as the likely bidder from the United States and Kennedy, who had his own offer rejected last week, said he feared for Rangers' future should the company, which previously failed with attempts to be involved with Tranmere Rovers and Sheffield Wednesday, win control. However, while it revealed on the eve of the deadline that it had been advising interested consortia from the US and UK, chief executive Jon Pritchett told BBC Scotland: "Club 9 Sports is not involved with the bid from the American investor.

Kennedy said he would not bid against the Blue Knights, the group led by Murray that has joined forces with Ticketus - the company that was sold millions of pounds of future season ticket sales by present owner Craig Whyte.
Murray stressed: "We are determined to try to save the club in its current form. We strongly believe there is value to be gained from the financial and football benefits that a CVA can deliver that would be immediately lost if the club went into liquidation. We are confident in the strength of our bid and the consortium's unique ability to rapidly return financial stability to the club with the support of Ticketus. As a Rangers fan first and foremost, I want to bring a swift end to the current uncertainties that are clouding the club. Our bid can deliver this."

The Singapore bid is being fronted by Bill Ng - who is apparently a billionaire but who knows, an American investment firm that was once Club 9 Sports but isn't, a German bid nobody had heard about before at all and the Blue Knights. Yippee.

# ? Apr 5, 2012 07:59

Scienide: Sep 29, 2006; Gunplay...

This thread has been a little quiet. This is an interesting (and thankfully brief) article about how Liverpool have fallen behind the rivals through a lack of financial acuity:

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2012/04/questions-over-fsgs-slow-progress-on-liverpools-stumbling-block-a-new-stadium/

# ? Apr 13, 2012 16:03

Eric Cantonese: Dec 21, 2004; You should hear my accent.

Scienide posted:

This thread has been a little quiet. This is an interesting (and thankfully brief) article about how Liverpool have fallen behind the rivals through a lack of financial acuity:

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2012/04/questions-over-fsgs-slow-progress-on-liverpools-stumbling-block-a-new-stadium/

It is unfortunate that there has not been much of any progress made on the stadium, but a large part of that is because all of the construction and redevelopment options are financially grueling and it's harder than it would have been back in 2007 or so to get someone to splash out that much money up front for the naming rights. I'm not sure if fans can reasonably get upset about the stadium situation just yet.

# ? Apr 13, 2012 16:15

belgend: Mar 6, 2008; me when The Club do another win

Belgian press condemns the constant bailouts of La Liga clubs (done mostly by banks to try and keep up a national/regional prestige) and calls for a more equal TV distribution rights and FFP governed by the EU. The argument is given that the European taxpayer is basically paying for a competition where 90% of the teams are virtually bankrupt. (This is doubly irritating for a country who tries its best to keep all clubs financially healthy with a very severe license system.)

The report (in Dutch) here: http://www.deredactie.be/permalink/1.1277147

belgend fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Apr 18, 2012

# ? Apr 18, 2012 21:26

The Clit Avoider: Aug 11, 2002; El Profesional

Fat Guy Sexting posted:

The Singapore bid is being fronted by Bill Ng - who is apparently a billionaire

Sounds familiar. Bill Ng has a personal wealth estimated at �40m. The "billionaire" is coming from the fact he's part of a Singaporean consortium and some particularly devious (or misguided) hack has used that to tie in Peter Lim.

There's nothing to suggest Lim is involved, and nothing to suggest Ng has anywhere near that sort of funding at his disposal. Or even a tenth of it.

# ? Apr 19, 2012 00:43

Fists Up: Apr 9, 2007

belgend posted:

Some newspapers over here publicized a list of the annual average wages of clubs in Belgium, and it surprises me how much of a difference there is not only with the big European clubs, but also with small clubs (albeit from big leagues). There are 2.Bundesliga teams with about double the wage salary the biggest paying club in Belgium. It's madness really

Whats the average person earning the belgian league?

# ? Apr 19, 2012 01:06

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Guess what's the richest club in the world.

And it's not Manchester City.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17769654

It's Manchester United.

# ? Apr 19, 2012 15:24

Redundant: Sep 24, 2011; Even robots have feelings!

quote:

The top teams on the pitch are going to continue to get richer. This year's Champions League payout will be higher than 2011 for the 32 tournament teams.

Woooo, Monopolyball!!!!

I wonder who the richest club in the world is when debts are struck off. United obviously have their debt concerns from the takeover, Spanish clubs are shockingly run, Arsenal have the stadium debt still, you get the idea. I aren't entirely sure how significant these debts are any more though.

# ? Apr 19, 2012 15:31

Modus Trollens: Sep 12, 2010

vyelkin posted:

Guess what's the richest club in the world.

And it's not Manchester City.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17769654

It's Manchester United.

thats worth not "richest"

# ? Apr 19, 2012 15:47

Healbot: Jul 7, 2006; very very very fucjable
very vywr very

Pretty sure Messi, despite all his earnings, still has not amassed a million billion trillion dollars.

# ? Apr 19, 2012 16:08

sweek0: May 22, 2006; Let me fall out the window
With confetti in my hair
Deal out jacks or better
On a blanket by the stairs
I'll tell you all my secrets
But I lie about my past

Fists Up posted:

Whats the average person earning the belgian league?

I saw these stats the other day, it's like �100,000 to 200,000 a year in Belgium?

# ? Apr 19, 2012 17:32

belgend: Mar 6, 2008; me when The Club do another win

Fists Up posted:

Whats the average person earning the belgian league?

The average is �210k/year, max average is Club with �407k/year (mostly because of a smaller squad), min average is OHL with �40k/year (but they just promoted this year).

e: The best paid players usually earn around the �1-1.5m/year mark.

e2: Other averages are here http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3423343&pagenumber=6&perpage=40#post401996924

belgend fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Apr 19, 2012

# ? Apr 19, 2012 17:40

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

Redundant posted:

Woooo, Monopolyball!!!!

I wonder who the richest club in the world is when debts are struck off. United obviously have their debt concerns from the takeover, Spanish clubs are shockingly run, Arsenal have the stadium debt still, you get the idea. I aren't entirely sure how significant these debts are any more though.

Define debts I guess, technically Chelsea have 0 debt.

# ? Apr 19, 2012 20:37

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# ? May 4, 2024 05:22

Healbot: Jul 7, 2006; very very very fucjable
very vywr very

Dudley posted:

Define debts I guess, technically Chelsea have 0 debt.

Chelsea are not a rich club.

# ? Apr 19, 2012 20:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Ray Parlour > Football Finances, come laugh at portsmouth

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