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Cannot Find Server posted:From the Le Mans rulebook: Like I said, I didn't see the incident, so maybe the dude did something assholish and you were the victim, I don't know. I'm not passing judgement on that, I'm just saying if the guy didn't see you, and was simply following a consistent line, and a wreck occurred, then he isn't really to blame.
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Apr 19, 2012 20:55
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Hey look at this, there's a lot of new posts. It must be something important announced....Oh 
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Apr 19, 2012 20:58
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Symphoric posted:car being passed should maintain their line and not swerve around erratically, while the car passing should do so without affecting the target cars line. No poo poo! So how in the gently caress does going side by side into a corner affect the target car's line if the car passing him is already on the racing line before the corner  Literally every time I've seen two cars in this situation, the car being passed who is not on the preferred line either gives or tries to hold tight. I've never seen them come down on the car attempting to get around them, regardless of whether said car is half in front or half behind them, because it's a dumb move that would end with both cars crashed; nor have I ever seen the passing car penalized in any way for being on the preferred line even if he is not fully alongside the car he is passing before the corner entry. Maybe in lower level SCCA-type events it's against the rules because amateur drivers and all that, but this situation happens pretty much every week in major road racing series' and I've never seen or heard a complaint about it. VVV I do have a Kinect. It was a waste of money, just like the Wii  Although if you could enable just the head tracking and keep driving with a controller/wheel, I'd be all over interior view. Oh well. DEEP STATE PLOT fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 21:03
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Look at these scrubs who don't have Kinect Head Trackingtm whining about cockpit FOV.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:03
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GhostDog posted:Someone should play race director, like those dudes playing air traffic controllers in flight sims.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:04
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This incident took place during one of the goon organized weekly races, correct? Wouldn't this discussion be better suited in its private server thread? It's really not fair to take over the thread with something that only a handful of goons even saw, and can comment on.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:06
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This is why the next Forza needs a "get out of car, throw helmet and fight other player" option.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:08
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Maker Of Shoes posted:This is why the next Forza needs a "get out of car, throw helmet and fight other player" option. Hahah, this would be awesome. Real talk for a moment though; Forza doesn't simulate real world racing rules, it doesn't even try, and so it's not really worth trying to implement the real thing into a game like this. Like in the real world, a lot of drivers get screwed over by other drivers making dumb mistakes. Everyone moves on, and the next week its like nothing even happened. Just saying, this is a video game, lets just relax, you didn't have a couple million dollar car totaled. Your virtual machine is still standing, and in FM4 you can't be knocked out of a race completely unless you are flipped over on simulation damage.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:13
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Cannot Find Server posted:Literally every time I've seen two cars in this situation, the car being passed who is not on the preferred line either gives or tries to hold tight. I've never seen them come down on the car attempting to get around them, regardless of whether said car is half in front or half behind them, because it's a dumb move that would end with both cars crashed; nor have I ever seen the passing car penalized in any way for being on the preferred line even if he is not fully alongside the car he is passing before the corner entry. Maybe in lower level SCCA-type events it's against the rules because amateur drivers and all that, but this situation happens pretty much every week in major road racing series' and I've never seen or heard a complaint about it. Ayrton Senna broke all the rules constantly, but to him it didn't matter because he either made the pass without incident so nobody cared much, or he crashed and hosed his car up bad enough that getting black flagged didn't matter anyway. In lower levels of racing, the level of talent and experience is much lower. Novice drivers get special tags so everybody knows to keep way the gently caress away from them. I think it's fair to say any video game is generally scraping the very bottom of the talent pool. The rules are essentially the same, it's just that bending and breaking them is much riskier.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:16
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silverbullitt850 posted:Yeah, guys, the multi screen option allows you to play with cockpit viewing distances. I turned it off because it has issues with applying liveries in single player mode, but it can change the camera to make you sit ~2x closer to the steering wheel. I kinda hate that about this game too (lack of visibility in interior mode). It's not changing the distance though (unless there's another option I'm unaware of), it's changing your field of view so you're zooming in on the window area which doesn't really help with situational awareness. It would be so much nicer if you could actually change your head position since all the modern cars put you in the perspective of a midget. I said come in! posted:Hahah, this would be awesome. Real talk for a moment though; Forza doesn't simulate real world racing rules, it doesn't even try, and so it's not really worth trying to implement the real thing into a game like this. Like in the real world, a lot of drivers get screwed over by other drivers making dumb mistakes. Everyone moves on, and the next week its like nothing even happened. The damage can get annoying in long races. It doesn't ever make me truly angry (since I can never get near first anyway) but it can be disappointing when you're having a good race and doesn't feel like it adds much to the game unless everyone you're playing with is being really cautious, it feels more like a random chance that your car will get destroyed in the first few turns, at least in goon races. Fortuitous Bumble fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 21:22
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Maker Of Shoes posted:This is why the next Forza needs a "get out of car, throw helmet and fight other player" option. It'd be great! And it'd justify my Kinect! I said come in! posted:Hahah, this would be awesome. Real talk for a moment though; Forza doesn't simulate real world racing rules, it doesn't even try, and so it's not really worth trying to implement the real thing into a game like this. Like in the real world, a lot of drivers get screwed over by other drivers making dumb mistakes. Everyone moves on, and the next week its like nothing even happened. I agree, and if I wanted people to get super spergy about ~real racing rules~ I'd recommend that they play iRacing, as I've said before. This game is generally a lot more chill and I really don't care about 99% of mistakes. Getting taken out on lap 27 or whatever of a 30 lap race by a lapper after being extra careful the entire race just set me off, and I apologize for this terrible derail. Not that I'm even mad at him for it; it's more the people (or more specifically, person) who felt the need to chime in when they weren't even there and decided to make assumptions that they had no right to make (hint: not Symphoric). Discussions about proper passing techniques is fine, regardless of disagreements on the specifics; in fact, I think more in-depth discussions of racing techniques in general would benefit everyone anyway and would be a lot better than derails about one incident. However, suggesting that I made a dangerous pass and asking about my safety score in a game I've never played is just stupid.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:24
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Proper passing techniques are totally something i'm interested in reading about. The few goons with real world racing experience, that have chimed in throughout this thread, posting their experiences, have been a joy to read.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:30
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One of the things I really wished would have appeared in Forza 4 would be training drills on proper passing at speed, amongst other things. Instead Turn10 just gives you a 1-4 rating on your pass depending on how close you were to the other person.  Reading about it isn't the same as doing it, since you really need to learn things as reflexes. I learned very quickly that "car up ahead" isn't "follow that car" when I plowed full speed into someone on a straight on my first night of GTCC racing and was trying to follow other people's lines. Haven't made the same mistake again. 
LiquidRain fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 21:32
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Turning on multi-screen with the "distance between screens" set to 90, you end up sitting a bit further back, which may help a little bit with visibility. Though You lose the ability to do 45 degree free look.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:33
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I said come in! posted:unless you are flipped over on simulation damage. Good edit. Was about to say, "but what about..." Anyway, see Goons? This is why you should race with us. We get angry. Wait, that's more of a reason to avoid us. How about this: Project car LeMons next week! For equality, we're setting a benchmark lap time. The goal is for your car, fully built to be within 1 second of this laptime on new Le Mans. This can be achieved by normal means, 30% power handicap, 45% power handicap, or 60% power handicap. Find your favorite failed project (faux-rarri's are a great example) car online, post up the link, and make your car meet the target time, which will be established hopefully tomorrow. Some examples include Clarkson's Starion (Clitheroe Carpets gets blocked from the storefront by Forza's language filter), a Fiero made into a Faux-rarri, and a 10020423450923-colored GNX with Donks.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:33
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Cannot Find Server posted:Although if you could enable just the head tracking and keep driving with a controller/wheel, I'd be all over interior view. Oh well. You can, I've done it, although I didn't leave head tracking on for long.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:35
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It is required from now on that you add this gamertag to your friends list. He must also be invited to every race.
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Apr 19, 2012 21:37
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Cannot Find Server posted:
That said, if you find yourself continually involved in accidents and you're not playing in pubbie games where headhunting and playing demolition derby is an active part of "competition", then I'd say the blame probably lies with you. The fact that you talk about how you're continually in collisions when passing and not when someone is passing you leads me to believe that you routinely try unsafe passes and try to place the blame on someone else. Symphoric posted:I wasn't in the race so I obviously didn't see it happen, but the way you described it made me think you were lapping some slow dude, you both converged somewhere, and it caused a wreck. Even in cockpit view, if you are actually ahead of that guy, there really isn't any way he wouldn't see you. If you haven't actually passed him yet (so he can see you), the line (whatever line that may be) is still owned by him. Now, I've done real racing and I even instruct for NASA. The general accepted rule is that barring truly unsafe behavior, it is solely the responsibility of the passing car to execute a safe pass. Now, that said, some of the best drivers (Aryton Senna is a perfect example) will place you into a situation where you will have to decide if you will risk a collision and hold your line or if you'll back off, let him make the pass and try to make the position up later. But make no mistake, if he puts you in that situation and you do not yield, he is responsible for the collision. Is it routinely punished? It depends. Sometimes it's just a "racing incident". However, if you're routinely putting your car in positions where you expect the lead car to yield (stuffing your car down in the corner, hoping to get position on the inside and blocking the racing line), I can promise you that you can expect to be banned in short order, especially in lower levels of racing. In upper levels of racing, like F1 and Le Mans, it's expected that everyone is a professional (meaning they won't routinely engage in unsafe behavior) and that sometimes things happen and everyone accepts that risk. Then again, in upper levels of racing, a driver who is involved in several car to car contacts in a season likely won't even have a ride next season, and it doesn't matter who is "at fault". Blocking rules do exist to keep people from engaging in frustrating and dangerous blocking maneuvers during passing. You're generally allowed one move to block. You can't weave all over the track to block someone and you can't pick your racing line and then move around to block a faster car from coming around. But that's different than what you're describing. You're describing racing incidents where the driver being passed didn't see you, not where he moved to block you and caused a collision. You must remember that it is not his responsibility to know where you are and it is not his responsibility to avoid a collision or get out of your way. If you are alongside another car and attempting to pass, it is your responsibility to do it safely and present yourself in such a manner that he can see you as you're executing the pass -- ie, you put your front bumper in front of his. I asked about your safety rating in iRacing because you brought up the game, and I was curious if you were considered a safe driver there or if "other people keep crashing into me!" einTier fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 22:29
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Holy gently caress look at all the sperglords come out of the woodwork here. This is why I don't race Goonspec on Wednesday nights anymore. It's been ruined by too many people whining about being tapped or bumped or whatever other stupid complaint they can come up with. It's a video game, relax. VERTiG0 fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Apr 19, 2012 |
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Apr 19, 2012 22:36
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I said come in! posted:Proper passing techniques are totally something i'm interested in reading about. The few goons with real world racing experience, that have chimed in throughout this thread, posting their experiences, have been a joy to read. Just a quick primer. As was mentioned, the ultimate responsibility for a safe pass lies with the person doing the passing. The responsibility for the driver being passed is to maintain his line -- regardless of where that line goes -- and yield when he is no longer in front. It is a good idea to keep spatial awareness while being passed because the race is still lost even if you were "right" in the collision analysis and because you don't want to be surprised by a driver suddenly appearing in front of you that you must yield to. Here's a pretty good example of that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeefhFY-GKQ From what I remember, no one was technically held at fault. However, McNish (in the Audi) has actually "completed" the pass and presented himself in front of the Ferrari driver. However, at the time they entered into the corner the Ferrari technically had right of way and never deviated from his racing line. Had McNish not been so aggressive early in the race, this never would have happened. By the same token, had the Ferrari driver been a little more spatially aware, he could have avoided the collision entirely. I think the reason this was chalked up to a racing incident is because while McNish technically had the right of way at the moment of collision, it was his responsibility to execute a safe pass. He took a chance and it didn't pay off. You can also watch this, which is some of the best racing I've ever seen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0LHqNAiWPk Both Magnussen (Corvette) and Bergmeister (Porsche) were handed suspensions for this racing incident. Magnussen was handed a probation for their actions. Magnussen was being overly aggressive, as he was frustrated by the fact that Bergmeister executed some superlative (and legal) blocking despite being the slower car. Magnussen did not execute a safe pass (his responsibility) and kept pushing it and taking chances including car-to-car contact in the last corner. Bergmeister pushed Magnussen to the wall and continued pushing even when Magnussen had passed him and was technically required to yield right of way. Pass in the straights if you can. Most beginner racers seem to want to pass in the corners. It's very difficult to set up a safe pass on the straights, and it's easy to dive down in a corner, late brake, take a horrible line, and put both cars and drivers at extreme risk. It's far better to take a very late apex through the corner, use the entire corner for acceleration, and while the other driver is still dealing with track out, pass him on the inside of the straight. Setting it up properly is difficult however, because you may only be able to execute this in one or two places on the track and if you have not closed the distance before the corner, you will not even be able to do it there. Remember, the most important corner on the whole track is the corner before the longest straight. The next most important corner is the one before the second longest straight. Also, Le Mans and F1 can have differing racing rules due to several factors. One, this is the top echelon of racing. Two, Le Mans typically has different classes of cars, with one being significantly faster than the other. Three, F1 has open wheel cars where car to car contact can easily result in cars being launched into the air by tire on tire contact.
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Apr 19, 2012 22:59
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VERTiG0 posted:Holy gently caress look at all the sperglords come out of the woodwork here. Also, I'd vote for a separate Private Game Servers to continue the discussion about the AUGR races. SAEG and GTCC have threads. If no one's made one then I'll make one when I get home from work in like 2 hours.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:00
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VERTiG0 posted:Holy gently caress look at all the sperglords come out of the woodwork here. I would agree. However, if you want to complain about people not being "fully aware" of your passing and "causing a collision", I fully expect you to know all the passing rules and how to execute a safe pass.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:12
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The other thing is I don't think real race car drivers don't have headphones that let them talk to the other drivers like you can on internet racecars, so if you're lapping someone you might want to give them a quick heads up in case they aren't paying attention?
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Apr 19, 2012 23:21
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ANAmal.net posted:The other thing is I don't think real race car drivers don't have headphones that let them talk to the other drivers like you can on internet racecars, so if you're lapping someone you might want to give them a quick heads up in case they aren't paying attention? Thats the trouble some times as well. Forza 4 doesn't have a blue flag to indicate that a leader car is coming up behind you. While a microphone will probably help, having another indicator is great since sometimes with a full 16 player lobby, it can get lost in the chat.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:26
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Ringo Star Get posted:Thats the trouble some times as well. Forza 4 doesn't have a blue flag to indicate that a leader car is coming up behind you. While a microphone will probably help, having another indicator is great since sometimes with a full 16 player lobby, it can get lost in the chat. Track map/radar is a wonderful thing.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:27
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CaseFace McGee posted:Track map/radar is a wonderful thing. Vertigo, that bums me out. I enjoyed having you in our races, Silverstone incident aside. Some people, me included, got a heavy dose of the competitive gene, and occasionally it pokes out while playing Forza. Fortunately, it's a video game and not life.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:35
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CaseFace McGee posted:Track map/radar is a wonderful thing. True, but it just shows a car's position, not if they're lapping you. I usually don't stare at the track map/radar since I don't want to get too focused on it instead of the road.
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Apr 19, 2012 23:46
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The track radar/distance behind thing needs a rework for Forza 5, especially for multiple class racing. It's great to know that I'm in second place in GT2, but how far back is the person in the freaking LMP1 from climbing up my arse?
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Apr 19, 2012 23:51
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Dice racing in 30, gt is bentron
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Apr 19, 2012 23:52
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Wow, I missed quite the thread. I'm not going to weigh in as enough has been said, but I will say one thing - I apologize for any whining I may have done. I'll keep my mouth shut from now on!
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Apr 19, 2012 23:55
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Ringo Star Get posted:True, but it just shows a car's position, not if they're lapping you. I usually don't stare at the track map/radar since I don't want to get too focused on it instead of the road. If a car is coming up on me (or me up on him), I usually take a quick glance at the distances to see if it's someone I'm competitive with. If I know someone might be trying to pass me, I try to give them a wide berth (else I lag-kill them). If GTCC has taught me anything, it's patience. It also helps practicing the night before to figure out where the passing "zones" are on a track. Also, GTCC goes on about bumping, rubbing, and rear ending, but it's usually not race related.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:28
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So where do we find the lap time we are supposed to be tuning our car towards for the GonMons project car race?
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Apr 20, 2012 02:43
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YF19pilot posted:Also, GTCC goes on about bumping, rubbing, and rear ending, but it's usually not race related. I'm gonna make a crew for like me and Howdy and Frago and Phancy and call it the Backmarker Bros, and if you ever finish above mid-field we kick you the gently caress out. There's gonna be a logo and everything.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:47
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ANAmal.net posted:I'm gonna make a crew for like me and Howdy and Frago and Phancy and call it the Backmarker Bros, and if you ever finish above mid-field we kick you the gently caress out. There's gonna be a logo and everything. Hell yeah, bro, except it's already called G2.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:03
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ANAmal.net posted:I'm gonna make a crew for like me and Howdy and Frago and Phancy and call it the Backmarker Bros, and if you ever finish above mid-field we kick you the gently caress out. There's gonna be a logo and everything. Can I join. Thanks to being punted off the track every race, I've gone from midfield to backmarker.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:05
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Maker Of Shoes posted:This is why the next Forza needs a "get out of car, throw helmet and fight other player" option. You jest, but I wouldn't mind the characters approaching each other and have some sort of Tekken-esque minigame where you get to beach the poo poo out of each other for the remainder of the race if the cars are totalled. I'm probably the only one that cares for this.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:23
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Liku posted:You jest, but I wouldn't mind the characters approaching each other and have some sort of Tekken-esque minigame where you get to beach the poo poo out of each other for the remainder of the race if the cars are totalled. I'm probably the only one that cares for this. Surely, all goons would love such a feature.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:26
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Cojawfee posted:Can I join. Thanks to being punted off the track every race, I've gone from midfield to backmarker. I think you're probably too good for us, but you're cool, so gently caress it, why not. Day Man posted:Hell yeah, bro, except it's already called G2. See, the thing is, since roughly when I started with GTCC, I always wanted to be G2, but I showed up too late and I don't want to horn in on what is clearly a very protected label. I made it a point to refer to my Forza 3 overflow lobbies as Group B, because Group 2 (best group 2?) isn't something you just take, you have you earn it.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:29
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I'm so old school I raced GTCC before it became the regular one and this group 2 whatever.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:31
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Liku posted:You jest, but I wouldn't mind the characters approaching each other and have some sort of Tekken-esque minigame where you get to beach the poo poo out of each other for the remainder of the race if the cars are totalled. I'm probably the only one that cares for this. This is literally all I would ever do.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:38
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