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RADmadness posted:Wolf Ring should also be removed or dropped to be just as negligible as hawk and leo rings. And hornet should only work for parries. Many balance problems solved right there. As it stands, the Wolf Ring is the only way to make most light armour pvp builds work. So I'm not sure what you think nerfing it would solve. All that'd happen is people would switch to the superior Dark Wood Grain Ring and just wear heavier armour to get even more poise than the Wolf Ring offers. If you have any appreciable END the wolf ring is a straight downgrade from the Dark Wood Grain Ring. Presumably you want the hornet ring nerfed because you think backstabs are OP, but high damage backstabs are a pretty integral part of Dark Souls pvp because they let you properly punish bad players, heavy weapon users or momentary vulnerabilities. Personally I would like to see the backstab window lowered to what it was in Demon's Souls and see the Wood Grain Ring nerfed or removed entirely in favour of some other mechanic to give you the flip. I kind of think the FaP ring is boring too and just giving everyone its stats permanently and then removing it from the game would open up builds a lot more. vv: From what I've seen, when people say someone "warped" around them to BS, 9/10 times they're just using a backstab technique you don't know how to counter. Like running at you locked on so they snap around to your back as they pass you. Read fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 00:06
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Read posted:
Their also pretty great for warping around your target to one shot them.
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Apr 20, 2012 00:08
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Fibby Boy posted:Their also pretty great for warping around your target to one shot them. Read already covered it, but yeah, that's actually really easy to pull off on players who aren't expecting it or don't know the trick. This works great with weapons that have solid sprinting attacks, like the rapier, which also has a good crit value; use those a couple times, then once the host expects it, he'll go to block or counter and you've got your opening.
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Apr 20, 2012 00:37
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Alright, so what is the secret to not getting two shot in pvp? it seems like every time I get engaged by an invader I get steamrolled
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Apr 20, 2012 00:50
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So not being to familiar with the PVP in dark souls. What do I lose when I die exactly, is it permanent? Or do I simply reach my bloodstain and its like nothing happened.
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Apr 20, 2012 00:50
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Alteisen posted:So not being to familiar with the PVP in dark souls. If you're invaded, you lose nothing more than normal. You leave a bloodstain and can retrieve it as if you'd died any other way. All you lose is the humanity spent to become human. If you're invading through a red eye orb, cracked or otherwise, when you die as a black phantom you leave a bloodstain in the place where you got the message you were invading another world, but you remain human. To my knowledge, in any other form of phantoming (summon signs, invading a gravelord, darkmoon invasions) you lose nothing at all when you die.
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Apr 20, 2012 00:54
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Rascyc posted:It's very easy to get summoned into the Burg on a new game+ no matter your SL. My level 100+ characters have been summoned into the burg against newbies quite a few times. This seems unlikely. There's restrictions in place where players can only summon others within a certain range of their level - summoning a newbie into newgame+ is going to get them killed, and summoning a level 100+ into Burg will allow them to tank the game for them. Darkwraiths can invade anyone above them, and Darkmoons can invade anyone with indictments against them, but that's invading though. He said summoning. It might have just been a low level player, for example I have a level 6 that has reached as far as Kiln.
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Apr 20, 2012 01:08
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Dark Souls certainly brings people together. I had a very fine sunbro assist me on my new character for both Taurus Demon and Gargoyles. I figured I'd roll in the medallions as soon as possible, but hooo. Right before the armored boar I was invaded by someone dressed as the Lady of the Darkmoon. I got off some sick parries, he cheered for me, I cheered back--and he owned me. Darkwraiths have no honor. WHY DID I DO THAT.  Still, that's the first time I've had successful parries/really tried to parry in PvP and that was a great feeling.
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Apr 20, 2012 01:14
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Is there any way to sneak by the boulder-throwing enemies just outside Quelaag(?). Keep getting stuck or falling down in their line of sight.
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Apr 20, 2012 01:44
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Oh my god, gently caress dukes archives, and lost izalith is so much worse. These are the stages I'll think about whenever I feel like replaying DS and then quickly lose all desire to do so.
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Apr 20, 2012 01:46
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My brother and I were co-oping through our SL1 characters and were trying unsuccessfully for two days to summon each other in the Tomb of the Giants. Then, he remembered he hadn't placed the Lord Vessel yet.  Here's a few neat details that most people don't know: The kick animation changes to a Muay Thai style knee attack when you've equipped a fist weapon (like a bare hand or Caestus)! And, if you equip a shield in your right hand, it gets its own special kick animation too which is more of a shield push (causes knockback just like a kick)! The More You Know.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:13
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dahlis posted:Is there any way to sneak by the boulder-throwing enemies just outside Quelaag(?). Keep getting stuck or falling down in their line of sight. I have never fought these guys. I think I managed to avoid them buy basically hugging the wall to the right the entire time I run there from the bonfire.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:14
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Alteisen posted:Oh my god, gently caress dukes archives, and lost izalith is so much worse. These are the stages I'll think about whenever I feel like replaying DS and then quickly lose all desire to do so. Hahahahahahaha. Just wait.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:26
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Read posted:
If that's the case then I want the next souls game to have dedicated servers for pvp. At least with that I won't be upset when I get backstabbed since I'll know I hosed up. Tired of having my opponent swing his fuckoff weapon at me, miss, go into the recovery animation, then warp and stab me for all my health during that animation.
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Apr 20, 2012 02:41
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Spent all day getting summoned for Quelaag on my new character. I'm playing a bit of an odd one; points evenly spread between FTH INT and END and using Magic Weapon to buff a +10 Hand Axe. Out of 25 or so summons I'd say a little over half were successful  I had to stop after one guy summoned me 3 times and kept getting one shotted halfway through the fight by Quelaag's explosion. I hope he figured it out eventually! Anyway, Blighttown is pretty lively right now if you're in the SL25 range (on 360).
The Duke fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 02:46
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So which sold more units, 360 or PS3? I'm just curious which has a more crowded online group.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:07
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Speedball posted:So which sold more units, 360 or PS3? I'm just curious which has a more crowded online group. Pretty sure PS3 did due to the existing Demon's Souls fan base.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:10
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60 hour Dark Souls rehost is done, now they're live streaming 60 hours of Demon's Souls. http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv88315259
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Apr 20, 2012 03:19
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I really, really wish they would do something about the PvP lag. I can only play for about 15 minutes of PvP before I get too frustrated with teleporting backstabbers. The thing about lag though is, it reduces my patience for cheesy builds and farmers to zero. Not only do I have to fight, I have to fight against the server. Well, at least the occasional parry/riposte one shot kill is pretty satisfying. My main guy is sitting at SL 109. He's got 14 FTH, and I'm considering pumping that to 30 for Sunlight Blade. Worthwhile? I know 120 is generally considered to be a good SL cap.
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Apr 20, 2012 03:22
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Read posted:vv: From what I've seen, when people say someone "warped" around them to BS, 9/10 times they're just using a backstab technique you don't know how to counter. Like running at you locked on so they snap around to your back as they pass you. I've definitely seen people warp large distances to get a backstab from outside of my weapon reach (and I use weapons with a lot of range, MLGS and Great Scythe mostly) but I don't know how much of it is lag and how much of it is buggy backstabbing. I don't agree with the fact that backstabs are necessary or are even a good thing for pvp though. A tiny bit of lag makes them exponentially more powerful, there are all kinds of awful glitches like double backstabs (by the same person) or being backstabbed by two enemy players at the same time and taking damage for both. I've had fights where I backstab someone and literally do zero damage to them (and fights where someone backstabs me for zero damage), I've had fights where someone kills me with a single backstab even though I have over 1200 hp. I've had people warp from large distances (presumably lag) in to a backstab, and there's a huge community of annoying pvpers who do nothing except circlestrafe and fish for a backstab, making most builds useless for pvp. Backstab trades or two guys fishing for a backstab isn't just lame but it's also really boring, the fun fights are the one where neither party even bothers with a backstab unless they get a great opportunity. I think the whole system is pretty unacceptable in pvp because it's a boring one-button victory for the winner and incredibly frustrating for the loser. If the backstab area was reduced to the size it was in Demons Souls and backstab bonus damage was cut in half (or even further), and the netcode was fixed, I think they'd be alright, but as they stand now a backstab build makes fights really boring and also makes most builds useless, so everyone who's really "serious" about pvp runs the same few builds because it's the only real way to deal with the hornet/wood grain fishers that make up most of the "pvp community". The way backstabs work now is also frustrating because it's a radically different style of play than what the game emphasizes otherwise, there's no way to learn how to deal with it short of dying repeatedly to it (and unlike dying elsewhere in the game, it's frustrating, not fun). It's not even a matter of losing to backstab fishers because most of them are frankly really bad at the game and if you can avoid getting tagged by the BS they fall apart and die to a couple of weapon swings, the implementation of backstabs just ensures that they sap all of the fun out of pvp unless neither party is concerned with them. Then again, I feel pretty much the same way about some spells in the game (and not WoG/TWoP like a lot of people complain about). Things like Firestorm are just dumb because, yeah it's pretty much useless, but you can just hide around a corner where the enemy needs to move (i.e. if they're in a hallway) and wait all day, casting it as they get close, and there's absolutely nothing that they can do about it short of standing around waiting until the enemy phantom black crystals (because people who camp corners like that will never take the initiative because it removes the crutch strategy they're relying on to get kills). Edit: I mean, I get where you're coming from and in theory, yeah, I agree, but the implementation is too bad (in my experience) for it to work in practice. Blunt Force Trauma fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 03:45
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I'm having a tough time getting through the swamp part of Blightown. Where can I find some poison resisting armor?
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Apr 20, 2012 03:56
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Detective No. 27 posted:I'm having a tough time getting through the swamp part of Blightown. Where can I find some poison resisting armor? There's a ninja suit (Shadow Garb) in Blighttown that has very good poison resist. It's back on the wooden platforms on the way in somewhere. Some other things that might help you: Return to the Undead Asylum and get the Rusted Iron Ring (lets you move at normal speed in the swamp, you'll need a key that can be found on a corpse at Firelink Shrine, you'll see it on your way up to the birds' nest where you return to the undead asylum) Buy a bunch of poison-clearing moss from the female undead merchant in the Burg aqueduct. The shortcut out of Blighttown (up the waterwheel) is actually very fast if you just follow the torches. Look for a torch, climb the ladder next to it, repeat. You'll be up or down in no time. Make sure to grab the chest at the top if you didn't start with the master key. Blunt Force Trauma fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 03:57
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Detective No. 27 posted:I'm having a tough time getting through the swamp part of Blightown. Where can I find some poison resisting armor? The set the pyromancer starts with has the highest poison resist I believe, the Dark Souls wiki is being a dick right now but I'm pretty sure you can find it in the world somewhere. Failing that just bring a bunch of purple moss from the merchant in the tunnel. edit: you can actually find the Tattered set in Blighttown, haha. The Duke fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 04:02
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Detective No. 27 posted:I'm having a tough time getting through the swamp part of Blightown. Where can I find some poison resisting armor? Even great poison resisting armor usually won't get you through enough of the swamp to avoid a poisoning. It's best to just accept your fate and be poisoned, it barely hurts you anyway. If you're not convinced probably the best overall light armor set in the game (the pyromancer's starting gear) is in the swamp down there -- from the bonfire run basically straight out the tunnel across the swamp to the far wall and look around near there a bit and you'll find a body with the pyro clothes and some kind of toxic mist spell or something on it. Those clothes also have massive toxin resist, pretty good fire resist, have decent physical resists and are light as a feather and look pretty good. Perfect for Blighttown. What does suck (because the poison isn't really an issue) is the slow movement through the bog. You can fix that by going back to the Undead Ayslum (google) and getting the Rusted Iron Ring. Blunt Force Trauma posted:I get what you're saying but without backstabs Dark Souls PVP would just be a boring slugfest between two long ranging and/or fast sweeping weapons and everyone would have gigantic shields and there'd be literally no way to fix that other than turtling. And BTW turtles would be invincible. Havel's shield plus probably Lit Estoc or Sliver Knight Spear would be every not-constantly-dying build. Dark Souls (and Demon's Souls) is all about the shield. It's the essence of being successful at the game (or at least learning how to be -- you can transfer to a roll ninja later but everyone learns how to not die through using a shield well) and all the backstab is is a response to the shield mechanic. It's literally your only reliable tool for fending off a greatshield user and since every player who gets even to Anor Londo has been forced to master the shield mechanic you really need some kind of counter to it to make PvP interesting. raton fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 04:05
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Blunt Force Trauma posted:I've definitely seen people warp large distances to get a backstab from outside of my weapon reach (and I use weapons with a lot of range, MLGS and Great Scythe mostly) but I don't know how much of it is lag and how much of it is buggy backstabbing. Bolded what I'm responding to. If you backstab someone for zero damage they're either hacking (360 only to the best of my knowledge) or more likely they hit you just as you backstabbed them. This is an intentional feature of the game, you can cancel a backstab by hurting your opponent just as they're about to get it. Even if it doesn't stagger them. Taking a one hit kill from a backstab at 1200 HP isn't really a bad thing? Backstabs are supposed to be very powerful high damage attacks. I cannot think of a single build in the game that is made useless by the existence of backstabs, the only things they make useless are "spam R1" which isn't a build it's just poor effort on the part of the player. Maybe backstabs seem boring to you, but getting a backstab on a competent player is quite difficult and can be really rewarding. It's not nearly as simple as you make it out unless you're playing against bad players. Not to mention the visceral thrill of the backstab animation. I consider myself a fairly "serious" PvPer and I run a huge variety of builds, some of which I've never seen anyone else use. It's pretty standard in all PvP games that there'll be one or two builds which are recognized as being very powerful and a lot of people will use them. That's just human nature. The way to deal with backstabs is just to be careful and attentive, watch what your opponent is doing and be spacially aware. As for firestorm or gravelord sword dance camping corners, it's pretty easy to just bait them into using it and then backing off till they run out of casts or rushing them and hitting them in the lengthy casting animation. e: I do agree that being backstabbed is really frusterating sometimes, and I totally get where you're coming from. I think they should really shrink the BS area and do a better job of teaching the player about the mechanic in the game. vv: +15 over Enchanted. Even with moonlight arrows and 40 INT the enchanted bow +5 is still not that great. I can post the actual stats with Large Arrows and Moonlight equipped respectively, 40 DEX and 40 INT, if you'd like. Read fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 04:05
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The pyromancer's set is down in the swamp, near the wall opposite the way you came down. Running a dex/int character. Am I better off making the Black Bow an enchanted weapon, or +15 normal?
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Apr 20, 2012 04:06
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Thanks! I'm playing Pyromancer so I have to make sure I still have the clothes. Probably not!
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Apr 20, 2012 04:10
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Zodar posted:The pyromancer's set is down in the swamp, near the wall opposite the way you came down. Normal -- Enchanted doesn't work right. But you're a mage so why bother. raton fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 04:12
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Read posted:e: I do agree that being backstabbed is really frusterating sometimes, and I totally get where you're coming from. I think they should really shrink the BS area and do a better job of teaching the player about the mechanic in the game. Yeah, this is basically how I feel, I just feel stronger about it than you do. I agree with most of what you're saying, but between backstabs not working right (either by actually not working right, or just appearing to not work right because of lag or whatnot) and people making backstabs their sole focus in a battle, it just becomes more than I want to deal with, and instead of PvPing in the forest or the kiln like I used to, I just hang around in human form and wait for invaders, since they usually give me much more fun and varied fights. I just feel like Backstabs should be a thing that you do when the enemy makes a mistake and leaves you an opportune opening, not something that you run in circles waiting for.
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Apr 20, 2012 04:14
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Blunt Force Trauma posted:I just feel like Backstabs should be a thing that you do when the enemy makes a mistake and leaves you an opportune opening, not something that you run in circles waiting for. Yeah, this is how I wish it was ):. Sheep-Goats posted:Normal -- Enchanted doesn't work right. But you're a mage so why bother. Enchanted works fine if you use Moonlight Arrows. Just like a Lightning Avelyn will work if you use Lightning Bolts and Fire Bows work with Fire Arrows. Pretty easy to test if you're so inclined.
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Apr 20, 2012 04:17
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Blunt Force Trauma posted:Yeah, this is basically how I feel, I just feel stronger about it than you do. I agree with most of what you're saying, but between backstabs not working right (either by actually not working right, or just appearing to not work right because of lag or whatnot) and people making backstabs their sole focus in a battle, it just becomes more than I want to deal with, and instead of PvPing in the forest or the kiln like I used to, I just hang around in human form and wait for invaders, since they usually give me much more fun and varied fights. People complain about "lagstabs" but the lagstab is an actual thing in Dark and Demon's Souls -- it's countering a backstab with a backstab of your own and it's in the game specifically to kill those people who are just circlestrafing you continually. Basically if they come in counterclockwise you hold back and left on your movement stick to circle clockwise and move back a bit -- you end up behind them as they pivot to make their stab on your screen. Now the trick is that on his screen he is also pretty much simultaneously behind you (on his screen it looks like you're jamming your shoulder into his chest like a moron while he slips behind you) so at this point whoever hits R1 first gets the backstab, and if you hit it at pretty much the same time only one of you gets it but no one gets hurt. This is the true lagstab and it's a perfect counter to lazy backstabbing, just pivot behind their axis and press R1. It doesn't work against people who are switching things up and going for more artful backstabs, but it definitely works against the lazy folks. Anyway, watch these two videos and then you'll be on my and Read's side of the fence. The technique I mentioned above, the "actual lagstab" is the first one gone over in the second video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpZeX-RCat8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp6k4830a0 raton fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 04:20
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Oh, I've seen those videos - but I still don't agree that backstabs are well implemented. I mean, I understand how they work, I just disagree with them working that way and disagree with their power and them being such a large focus on backstabs in pvp. Like I said, it's not that I lose to backstab fishers any more than other players, it's just that they're really not fun at all to fight and I'd rather just quit to the system menu than actually fight one. Dying to a backstab fisher just feels like dumb bullshit, dying to someone else feels like you were bested in combat, even if they kill you with a backstab. Blunt Force Trauma fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 04:30
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Well I quit. I thought the hard hitting trash mobs in the archives where bad, the giant demon asses in izalith, the darkness and bottomless pits in the tomb of the giants. Now I'm in the crystal cave, giant rear end butterfly attacking me, need to use arrows or long range spells I assume, my faith is 12 so spells are out without mass grinding, I have arrows and the dragon slayer bow but I can't get a shot off without eating a hit, if I take the full brunt of one its spells, ONE SHOTTED. So gently caress this game, it was great and challenging up till anor londo, then it seems they ran out of ideas and went from challenging to horseshit, arbitrary crappy difficulty. So I give up, I'm done, Dark Souls has won.
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Apr 20, 2012 05:36
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Alteisen posted:So I give up, I'm done, Dark Souls has won. Those butterflies are completely avoidable, and honestly I thought the only way to aggro them was by hitting them first. Post-Anor Londo areas are kind of a low point for the game though, but only Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith feel like a slog whenever I do a playthrough.
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Apr 20, 2012 05:39
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EC posted:My SL1 build just made it through New Londo and lowered the water without dying. I've yet to do that on any other build. I should be. Read posted:Bolded what I'm responding to. If you backstab someone for zero damage they're either hacking (360 only to the best of my knowledge) or more likely they hit you just as you backstabbed them. This is an intentional feature of the game, you can cancel a backstab by hurting your opponent just as they're about to get it. Even if it doesn't stagger them. I agree with this 100%. Alteisen posted:Well I quit.  Don't attack them unless you want to fight them, they won't aggro
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Apr 20, 2012 05:40
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Alteisen posted:Well I quit. Seriously, ignore the butterflies, and they'll ignore you. I personally really like the crystal caves. The sound of the snowflakes hitting the invisible walkways is really soothing, and it was a nice break from the rear end in a top hat crystal hollowed in the archives proper.
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Apr 20, 2012 05:46
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They don't agroo? REALLY? Ugg. Now I'm really upset. I guessBefore I go, what the hell is this thing? Never seen it before. 
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Apr 20, 2012 06:01
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Alteisen posted:They don't agroo? REALLY? Ugg. Now I'm really upset. That's a vagrant. They come from when other players lose/drop a bunch of items/souls/humanity. Think of them as cute little treasure chests. 
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Apr 20, 2012 06:09
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They're also hella rare so consider you finding one right now a sign that you cannot quit so easily, mortal.
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Apr 20, 2012 06:52
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Yea I ignored the butterflies and actually made it to the bottom. Cut off seath's tail, which tail? He has 3. Doesn't matter now though, he's dead.
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Apr 20, 2012 07:30
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