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Draile posted:Anyone have a good spot to find a Utopia Crocus in Mechonis Field? Found mine on a ledge across a narrow gray pipe near the bulkhead to outside.
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May 12, 2012 13:43
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Anhedonia posted:Just finished the game, this is probably the best RPG I've ever played. I loved the story, the characters, the game mechanics and the ending, just epic. Hopefully more games like this will come out, even though I didn't play it 'legit' I did buy it just to support the devs. Hopefully an HD version will come out in the future on another system. I meanwhile have had the reverse experience. Having seen the pre-end game events unfold (unpackage might be better really), it drastically lowered my opinion of the game. The game had some likeable characters, and a neat set up, but it's clear now that Takahashi never really learned anything from Xenogears or Xenosaga and doesn't understand that having some good ideas isn't good enough. The execution matters. And if your story doesn't work without huge stilted expository dialogue scenes, and lots of them? You should probably start over. Now I'd just call it an average game. Shame really. I was hoping it could be better than the run of the mill JRPG drivel. Edit: Unoriginal One posted:Pretty sure you can make the giant ski jump without movement gems, just make sure you're pushing forward the whole way and work on the jump timing, and you'll eventually slam into the climbable cliff face. Tossing a couple on just in case can't hurt, mind you. This is correct. I did it with nothing but skill linking Riki's little 5% move speed boost, which is pretty negligible. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 12, 2012 |
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May 12, 2012 13:50
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Captain Oblivious posted:I meanwhile have had the reverse experience. It didn't affect my opinion of the game so much, but I have to agree about the general trajectory of the story. I was surprised from reading this thread that so many people say "it starts out really bog-standard but don't worry, because after X point (usually Prison Island), it starts picking up steam and never lets go until it's just a big rolling avalanche of insanely original storytelling." For me, storywise, the opening of the game, up through the events at Colony 6, was amazing. They eschewed or twisted a lot of usual JRPG tropes in a lot of neat ways. The speechless Mechon were compelling villains, in that they were so alien and yet had these strange little quirks of personality. They had real menace to them, with an underlying sense that things weren't quite as they seemed. The characters were relatively realistic and grounded, and the whole thing felt very personal, like anything could happen, and like the story progression was happening very organically. By the time Alvis was introduced, though, the game had sort of lost all that. The characters started becoming less realistic and falling more into JRPG archetypes. I'm not sure when "Reyn is super-dumb" became a thing, but it didn't really mesh with his early characterization and it felt cheap, and the other characters got worse too. Shulk went from a really smart and compelling protagonist to an audience stand-in whose main role was to REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID BUT WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END? A lot of the story elements started to come completely out of left field, as well. As with most of my criticisms of this game, I'm not saying it's bad. It was still an entertaining story and I was still playing to see the next part, but it started off better, and it could have been better, and it's just disappointing that it lost what made the early part surprising and special as it went on. By the end it was just a generic anime plot with a lot of references to gnosticism thrown in it (wait, is that redundant?).
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May 12, 2012 18:40
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Do any Heart-to-Hearts expire? I ask because I notice that (mid-game spoilers)Alcamoth is made up entirely of Timed Quests so I am sure *something* happens there eventually. Will I be able to do those Heart-to-Hearts in that zone after whatever it is that happens, happens?
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May 12, 2012 19:32
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You can always go back to a heart to heart. Some just become more difficult to get to.
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May 12, 2012 19:39
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So I think I've finally got all the charactes (7), what are some fun teams to try out? I've mostly been rolling with Shulk, Dunban, and Sharla. I feel shoehorned into having a tank (Reyn or Dunban), Healer (Sharla), and Shulk incase I run into something I need Monado powers for. Help me be less boring!
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May 12, 2012 19:58
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Hey, honest question here, why is this game being hyped as "the only good jrpg in like 10 years" when it seems like nier did it all first and better? Is it just because it's on the wii and wasn't released in america for a while so it built up this mystery?
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May 12, 2012 20:13
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I just got to Sword Valley and suddenly being "overleveled" up to 50 doesn't seem so overleveled. I love it, I can't go more than 100 yards without running into a miniboss.
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May 12, 2012 20:49
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Hackan Slash posted:So I think I've finally got all the charactes (7), what are some fun teams to try out? I've mostly been rolling with Shulk, Dunban, and Sharla. I feel shoehorned into having a tank (Reyn or Dunban), Healer (Sharla), and Shulk incase I run into something I need Monado powers for. Try playing as Melia - she hangs back from the fighting and flings spells. A popular idea is to gem her staff with Electric Plus gems and upgrade her Volt spell to do extra lightning damage. She can be devastatingly effective, and tends to stay out of melee range to draw less aggro. She also has some similar skills to Shulk - her Mind Blast art is like Shulk's Purge. I haven't tried it yet, but her Reflection art might be a damage shield. darealkooky posted:Hey, honest question here, why is this game being hyped as "the only good jrpg in like 10 years" when it seems like nier did it all first and better? Is it just because it's on the wii and wasn't released in america for a while so it built up this mystery? Maybe because Nier was more like a Western/European RPG than a JRPG in terms of style? I don't know. Chronojam posted:I just got to Sword Valley and suddenly being "overleveled" up to 50 doesn't seem so overleveled. I love it, I can't go more than 100 yards without running into a miniboss. I got there at about level 48. Suddenly, I'd gone from "overlevelled" to "underlevelled" really quickly.
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May 12, 2012 21:30
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Try playing as Melia - she hangs back from the fighting and flings spells. A popular idea is to gem her staff with Electric Plus gems and upgrade her Volt spell to do extra lightning damage. She can be devastatingly effective, and tends to stay out of melee range to draw less aggro. She also has some similar skills to Shulk - her Mind Blast art is like Shulk's Purge. I haven't tried it yet, but her Reflection art might be a damage shield. It is, reflects all physical and ether damage except for Talent Arts. It's really good.
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May 12, 2012 21:37
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darealkooky posted:Hey, honest question here, why is this game being hyped as "the only good jrpg in like 10 years" when it seems like nier did it all first and better? Is it just because it's on the wii and wasn't released in america for a while so it built up this mystery? Because while Nier had fantastic presentation, story, music, characters and voice acting, the gameplay was mediocre and the sidequests were, for lack of better term, a huge troll on the player. (I'm basing this off of The Dark Id's LP, though, so maybe the gameplay isn't so antiquated)
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May 12, 2012 21:40
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Try playing as Melia - she hangs back from the fighting and flings spells. A popular idea is to gem her staff with Electric Plus gems and upgrade her Volt spell to do extra lightning damage. She can be devastatingly effective, and tends to stay out of melee range to draw less aggro. Don't stay too far out of melee range, gotta abuse that hilarious Spear Break -> Starlight Kick combo. 
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May 12, 2012 22:07
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Suaimhneas posted:Don't stay too far out of melee range, gotta abuse that hilarious Spear Break -> Starlight Kick combo. This. It's amazing seeing Melia drop-kick some armored giant and watch it come crashing down. The perfect beginning to a dazey-chain, and you'll likely start a chain attack right after to keep the target stunlocked.
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May 12, 2012 22:24
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So how am I meant to beat this (spoilers for boss fight late into the game) second fight with Gadolt at Agniratha? My whole party is a level above him and I'm just getting murdered. I've tried this fight about five times now and I got him down to quarter health once because Fiora was filling the chain gauge up fast enough to constantly revive another party member so they could hit him three more times before getting destroyed by one of his super attacks that he spams every ten seconds. The huge spike in difficulty from this one boss is really irritating and I'm getting ready to just grind until everybody is in the mid 70s so they can dodge his bullshit attacks.
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May 13, 2012 00:05
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Bonaventure posted:It didn't affect my opinion of the game so much, but I have to agree about the general trajectory of the story. I was surprised from reading this thread that so many people say "it starts out really bog-standard but don't worry, because after X point (usually Prison Island), it starts picking up steam and never lets go until it's just a big rolling avalanche of insanely original storytelling." For me, storywise, the opening of the game, up through the events at Colony 6, was amazing. They eschewed or twisted a lot of usual JRPG tropes in a lot of neat ways. The speechless Mechon were compelling villains, in that they were so alien and yet had these strange little quirks of personality. They had real menace to them, with an underlying sense that things weren't quite as they seemed. The characters were relatively realistic and grounded, and the whole thing felt very personal, like anything could happen, and like the story progression was happening very organically. This is an excellent summation of the problems this game has. Takahashi has been finding excuses to pointlessly shoehorn in hollow Gnosticism references for what, a decade now? It is like he is masturbating in front of me. Dude needs to move on and grow as a writer. Step 1) Read up on "Show, don't tell". Goddamn. Edit: I would be less frustrated if I didn't know he could do better. The first third or so of the game demonstrates as much, as Bonaventure says. All this poo poo is frustrating precisely BECAUSE the game starts off so strong and then throws most of its strengths out the window. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 00:34 on May 13, 2012 |
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May 13, 2012 00:22
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Captain Oblivious posted:This is an excellent summation of the problems this game has. Takahashi has been finding excuses to pointlessly shoehorn in hollow Gnosticism references for what, a decade now? It is like he is masturbating in front of me. Dude needs to move on and grow as a writer. Yeah I agree. Love the game but the story and characters really took a weird turn for the worse during the second half of the game. How does the story/gameplay of Last Story hold up by comparison? I'm eyeballing that one at the moment but I haven't heard nearly as much positive about that as I had heard about Xenoblade. My wife wants a big plushie Riki doll, I guess nothing like that exists though. :I
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May 13, 2012 00:42
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Calaveron posted:Because while Nier had fantastic presentation, story, music, characters and voice acting, the gameplay was mediocre and the sidequests were, for lack of better term, a huge troll on the player. Trying to fight endless hordes of imps with your sword can get a little stupid but the bossfights are excellent, and when the game turns into ikaruga with swords it's really something else. The fighting in this game just feels like a mix between wow and ff12, both games not really known for fun, engaging gameplay. The sidequests in nier are bad, I'll give you that. Problem is the sidequests in this game are the same mmo-grade poo poo but they also make you over-leveled (which makes the fighting even more boring). Nier at-least has the decency of making fun of you for doing the sidequests. Each his own, I guess.
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May 13, 2012 00:44
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Yeah I agree. Love the game but the story and characters really took a weird turn for the worse during the second half of the game. I haven't beaten it yet, but Last Story is pretty entertaining, has an original combat system but that makes the game really easy, and the pacing is all over the goddamn place. Like, the game is divided into 30 chapters and you've been playing for three hours and well, it's kinda slow and nothing important has happened I'm probably still in the tutorial area... wait, I'm in chapter 11 already?
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May 13, 2012 00:48
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Yeah I agree. Love the game but the story and characters really took a weird turn for the worse during the second half of the game. Here's something out of the big Japanese art book. I can't read Japanese but I think it's just a fan creation. However, this is another thing I've found. Maybe you can make your own! I really want one eventually too.
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May 13, 2012 00:53
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:How does the story/gameplay of Last Story hold up by comparison? I'm eyeballing that one at the moment but I haven't heard nearly as much positive about that as I had heard about Xenoblade.  But basically, The Last Story, to me, seems like the gameplay has more Action RPG elements, and I find it a definite change to Xenoblade; I prefer it, to be honest. The game's quite easy because of it (not least of all because it's just fun to fight, so you gain levels easily). The story, though... it's not particularly "anime" to me (I don't watch anime, though), but it isn't really there quite so much? I'm not even ten hours into it (off-and-on playing it since I bought it), but the plot thus far seems pretty simplistic; nothing to write home about. quote:My wife wants a big plushie Riki doll, I guess nothing like that exists though. :I As for the game's story: I do agree that at a point, the story does weaken out a bit. Stuff that I wanted to see in the "main game" was relegated to the Heart-to-Hearts (e.g. humanising Mumkhar), and the characters themselves weaken a little. I didn't really have a problem with it, though; for anime, it was good enough. More show would have been ace. Also: was there any "deeper significance" to (very definitely final area spoilers!) the ghostly Faces before the final battle, or were they just there to spice it up?
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May 13, 2012 00:56
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Allan Assiduity posted:Also: was there any "deeper significance" to (very definitely final area spoilers!) the ghostly Faces before the final battle, or were they just there to spice it up? Feels to me it was just a reminder of how powerful you had become. They did do something exactly like that for Star Ocean 4.
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May 13, 2012 01:07
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Allan Assiduity posted:Largely because it probably won't get an NA release But xSeed has already announced they're bringing The last Story over.
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May 13, 2012 01:16
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Calaveron posted:Feels to me it was just a reminder of how powerful you had become. They did do something exactly like that for Star Ocean 4. Volt Catfish posted:But xSeed has already announced they're bringing The last Story over. 
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May 13, 2012 02:00
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Allan Assiduity posted:That sounds pretty good to me. Alternatively, I could see it as foreshadowing of the final boss' final form. The Faces are Homs working in unison with Mechon to act as one, whereas the final boss is, well, what it is.
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May 13, 2012 02:13
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I just finished Galahad Fortress. Definitely a huge moment. Seven!(Plot stuff, post-Galahad fortress) Kinda a bittersweet moment there. Things are never going to be the same for Seven again. The game surprised me when Seven expressed some of the same thoughts I was having - that the old Seven was basically dead. And the "double-edged Monado" is slowly killing Shulk, too, I can tell. He can tell. While I was in Galahad fortress, I noticed a Self-destruct switch in the turbine room. I didn't try it. Will I be able to go back there at some point? I got enough of the quest collectible to complete the future-quest, but not enough to also fill in the Collectopaedia. I have a save-game just before the end. I also didn't finish exploring Sword Valley, I was impatient to move the plot along (and I couldn't kill the surprise Fortress Mechon behind Gate 3, even though I was a level below it. Will I be able to go back there? Do Auras affect the entire party, or just the caster (or does it depend on the aura)? What are the recommended arts for Seven? Seven is clearly geared toward physical attack combos. But what does Seven's "Ether Absorb" art do? EDIT: Oh, and adding a "Quick Step II" Gem to Riki let me reach the wall, but I still can't find out how to get to the second landmark the Nopoon want me to sight-see from. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 03:56 on May 13, 2012 |
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May 13, 2012 03:50
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Chip Cheezum posted:So how am I meant to beat this (spoilers for boss fight late into the game) second fight with Gadolt at Agniratha? My whole party is a level above him and I'm just getting murdered. I've tried this fight about five times now and I got him down to quarter health once because Fiora was filling the chain gauge up fast enough to constantly revive another party member so they could hit him three more times before getting destroyed by one of his super attacks that he spams every ten seconds. The huge spike in difficulty from this one boss is really irritating and I'm getting ready to just grind until everybody is in the mid 70s so they can dodge his bullshit attacks. I just beat him at level 69 using Melia, Seven and Reyn. What I did was Summon a wind and then two lightning elements, topple him with the Spear Break/Starlight Kick combo and then unload on him. Repeat a few times and you should be golden. There's another boss fight right after that took me two tries to beat, but I used basically the same strategy.
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May 13, 2012 03:55
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I just finished Galahad Fortress. Definitely a huge moment. Man, that's unfortunate about the self destruct button; there's actually pretty good loot in that room when that button gets pressed!
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May 13, 2012 03:56
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darealkooky posted:Hey, honest question here, why is this game being hyped as "the only good jrpg in like 10 years" when it seems like nier did it all first and better? Is it just because it's on the wii and wasn't released in america for a while so it built up this mystery? Nier isn't really a JRPG. There's leveling up and stuff, but the tropes are pretty different and the gameplay is miles away. It's not trying, in any remote way, to be a Final Fantasy or Dragon-Quest style game. Xenoblade has all the features of a JRPG and is, I would say, a much more polished game than Nier. (I still love Nier way more but let's not get into that) It's a complete package, and it does a lot of things right that more recent games haven't. You can meaningfully compare and contrast it with say, Final Fantasy XIII - I don't see how you could do that with Nier at all. Endgame spoilers: While I wouldn't say the story is anything more than "pretty adequate" I'm not as annoyed at the end as some others in this thread. The characters were pretty likeable, it was a big epic thing, and even the expository scenes weren't anything like Xenosaga length. I just found myself chuckling in mild approval at where it went. I mean, what kind of JRPG would it be if the whole thing didn't work its way round to killing God eventually? At least the whole thing had the guts to just have a legitimate happy ending.
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May 13, 2012 04:02
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I just finished Galahad Fortress. Definitely a huge moment. Just don't finish Mechonis Field and you can go back to those two places. After that? Not so much.
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May 13, 2012 04:14
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I liked the story for the most part. I did find it kind of dumb/absurd that (post game spoiler) the universe was destroyed by a scientific experiment, with a new one being made that happened to allow Zanza to play God. I knew Alvis wasn't normal in any way but his identity was a bit over the top to me. The old over-the-top Xenogears excess was starting to show though. NG+ is a bit pointless for anything but a speed run though. Was kind of hoping for a Tales styled NG+ complete with special additional bosses. Might try to blitz through it but for the most part, there's not a lot of a reason to go completionist on NG+.
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May 13, 2012 04:34
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:What are the recommended arts for Seven? Seven is clearly geared toward physical attack combos. But what does Seven's "Ether Absorb" art do? Max out speed shift and link every single critical skill from Dunban to wreck everything in your path and have chain attacks coming out the rear end. Other than that I use power drain, second gear, that daze move that i can't remember the name of and spear break which is really good on toppled/dazed enemies. Seven's plot related art is also ridiculous and a mainstay if you're going for topple/daze/second gear/spear break. Marogareh fucked around with this message at 04:39 on May 13, 2012 |
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May 13, 2012 04:35
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:EDIT: Oh, and adding a "Quick Step II" Gem to Riki let me reach the wall, but I still can't find out how to get to the second landmark the Nopoon want me to sight-see from. You have to travel for quite some time across an incredibly tiny sliver of land along the crest of an ice mountain. It doesn't look like you should be able to walk on it, but you can. The path is actually on the mini map, so that helps find it a little.
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May 13, 2012 04:40
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:What are the recommended arts for Seven? Seven is clearly geared toward physical attack combos. But what does Seven's "Ether Absorb" art do? In addition to the previously posted advice: Take the time to work towards Seven's fourth skill tree, there's some overwhelmingly nasty stuff in there. As for Ether Drain, she does have a couple of Ether techs, and I believe the Gun and Cannon talent attacks run off of it as well. Not recommending it by any means, but it's there. I should also mention that the regen aura skill might be worth looking into, as once you've got her properly set up she'll easily pull aggro off of everyone but the actual tanks(and even they can have a hard time keeping up in threat), and it'll give you something to switch Speed Shift off if she does start taking a beating. Between the regen aura, snagging Critical Drain from Dunban, and her rather hefty agility she'll be able to stay up for quite some time.
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May 13, 2012 06:42
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Thanks a ton for the advice on 7th. They're already a little death factory, but it'll be good to have even crazier power with the right skill set-up. Right now I'm just doing the same thing I did with Dundun and pumping them with Agi and Str gems to hold aggro. Seems to be working so far! Also need to go back and work on getting some more manuals since I'm really lacking on some chars and they seem hard to find. Also, I'm in Agniratha or whatever the Mechonis capital is. Is there a good point around here that I should start going back and working on those fourth skill tress/old quests before I get to the point of no return or have I already passed that point? I know they pretty much state in the dialogue the Abandon All Hope point, but I'd like to get some more stuff hammered out before then if there are any other major timed events before it.
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May 13, 2012 07:24
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Axel Serenity posted:Also, I'm in Agniratha or whatever the Mechonis capital is. Is there a good point around here that I should start going back and working on those fourth skill tress/old quests before I get to the point of no return or have I already passed that point? I know they pretty much state in the dialogue the Abandon All Hope point, but I'd like to get some more stuff hammered out before then if there are any other major timed events before it. Right now would be a good time to do anything you want to do in your current area or either of the two that preceded it. You won't get locked out of any important quests (or even very many unimportant ones) by finishing the place, but you will be locked out from some unique monsters which you may want to farm for their arts manuals. (Not to mention the affinity coins from their first-time kills.) If nothing else, hit up Synchronized Gaheris in Central Factory, a little northwest of the Central Warehouse Lift landmark. Kill it, save before opening the chest, then savescum the chest-opening (or alternatively, don't, and just kill it a lot of times) until you get the advanced art manual for Ether Drain.
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May 13, 2012 08:48
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Regarding Seven, does she have intermediate arts manuals besides one for backstab? Everything else of hers is at novice level except for spear break, which I've found the advanced manual for. I'm sitting on a ton of AP for when some arts open up.
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May 13, 2012 20:12
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While everyone is talking about Seven I will ask: I JUST got Seven and I've been having everyone use their anti-mechon stuff I got before Galahad Fortress (except for Reyn cause I accidentally sold it  ), but I've been getting equipment that has better damage ratings. I rarely ever have Shulk in the active party, much less play as him, and am wondering at what point is it safe to use regular weapons without constantly running into mechon that are invulnerable to all my poo poo? I'm on the Fallen Arm, which I think is a part of Mechonis, and I figure something has got to give.
Fun Times! fucked around with this message at 21:09 on May 13, 2012 |
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May 13, 2012 21:07
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Fun Times! posted:While everyone is talking about Seven I will ask: I JUST got Seven and I've been having everyone use their anti-mechon stuff I got before Galahad Fortress (except for Reyn cause I accidentally sold it
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May 13, 2012 21:52
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:While I was in Galahad fortress, I noticed a Self-destruct switch in the turbine room. I didn't try it. Will I be able to go back there at some point? I got enough of the quest collectible to complete the future-quest, but not enough to also fill in the Collectopaedia. I have a save-game just before the end. Once you collect all your characters and meet up at the plot point you can pretty much warp back anywhere. I think those areas are open up until the end of the next area after the one you are in. That is, if you count Fallen Arm as one area, you should probably clear those areas before the plot point at the end of the next area map - it will be called Mechonis Field. This point in the game is where you should try to collect or do as much as possible in one go because the game will not let you get back to them if you go more than one or two areas ahead. I was in the same boat as you with the M104 Reinforcement Monster because it just spams those multi-hit attacks and AoE attacks nonstop. You should do quests in the area you are in to level up because once you kill the M104 there is a unique monster version of it further along that path that is like level 57 or something.
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May 13, 2012 21:58
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97 hours, and 82 levels later, I'm done. I skimmed a little bit of Tephra Cave before heading off to the final area, and I'm kinda looking forward to screwing around with the high level stuff, but I knew the final boss was 80ish, so I headed into the Bionis at about 79. I've got to thank Louisgod for making the thread suggesting the pre-orders though because while the game was on my radar, I didn't have any idea about the limited run until his thread. It was definately worth the 50 bucks, and it was the first time I've sat down and finished a game on the Wii since No More Heroes 2. I do have one huge question though, (Everything below is like last moments of the game spoilers DO NOT READ unless you've allready beaten the game.)If I understood the ending right, Meyneth and Zanza were on a space station above what I'm assuming was an uninhabited planet(Earth?), and whatever the hell Zanza did to create life on the planet somehow reset the entire universe, not just that planet? Alvis being a god kinda surprised me. I kinda figured as soon as he helped Shulk reign his mind back in from space that while he was a disciple based on Dickson and Lorithia's reactions to him, and that he had to have some kind of long-term game in mind, but I wasn't expecting him to be the actual Monado instead of Zanza. I was betting he just was the knowledge/philosophy equivalent to Dickson's urge for power, and Lorithia's urge for immortality. Furthermore, since he is a god himself, and since Shulk and Co. let him live, doesn't that leave the potential for the world to end and be reborn again?
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May 13, 2012 22:26
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