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Horatio is the best race. Whats that, I made a new Colony? Let me just clone my high level Administrator, and set him up there, should allow them to get production/science up several times faster then any other race. You destroyed my fleet? Well, good thing I had a few extra clones of my General on hand, here are two more large fleets led by the same man. You are sending everything you have at me? I'll just clone a ton of new units specifically for this fight, then dismiss them all afterwards. And they gain food/population/industry so quickly due to their basic bonuses/starter tech, I'm always at max capped population planets by turn 20-25 or so, and by turn 50-75 I'm really pushing industry. My Dust gain is far behind the Empire, but it doesn't matter because my adaption comes through brute forcing everything with waves of clones then actually adapting. Also all my ships look like gigantic double helix dongs.
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May 16, 2012 05:30
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Rookersh posted:Horatio is the best race. The cloning combined with the food bonuses, extra pop on smaller planets and such really snowballs. More food = more pop = more ind/sci/dust. Especially if you manage to get a Governor/Agriculture and Commander/Pilot hero in your initial 3, you're set for the game. I have a Horatio save at turn 84 that hangs when I hit the end turn button simply because of all the poo poo it has to calculate (I assume).  edit: Just read about an interesting fleet tactic on the official forum: the destroyer zerg fleet. Apparently due to the way combat is calculated (each ship fires on only one enemy ship per phase) you can just stack mobs of cheep destroyers with no armor, just filled to the gills with guns (which they get a discount on!) and steamroll bigger ships. If the other guy can bring 5 cruisers then you can bring 13 destroyers in the same size fleet. They blow your ships up easier but only 5 per phase at most (overkill damage goes poof) and your flying gunbags will blow up more industry investment in his CRs than he will to your DEs. Gonna try this tomorrow. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 07:18 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 05:47
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Endless Space: Every Race is Overpowered
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May 16, 2012 07:47
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So a friend bought me a copy of this game, and at first I thought it was really cool but after playing SotS I can't stand the amount of finicky micromanagement it insists on. Does anyone think they'll end up making it so you don't have to build a million pointless things at every single new system? It seems really cool, it has some cool race ideas, etc., but it's just not fun to waste hours having to mash every decent upgrade on every single planet, remembering order to build them in, etc. etc. They aren't choices, they're just mandatory busywork, and I no longer have patience for games that waste my time.
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May 16, 2012 08:01
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Rookersh posted:Horatio is the best race. What? That's what cloning means? I thought it was just .2 stat increases somewhere in the math I can't see. How do you actually clone people? (what research lets you have more than 3 heros, if such a thing exists?) I wanted to play a race of all the same guy. It's a really funny conceit. e: ok found the clone thing, but is it only heroes you can clone? Also I learned that if you aren't humans you have to rush destroyers or you will loving die to destroyers who will take no damage and sit on your only source of titanium. As humans I always skipped over them until I needed them to boost my command cap. Krinkle fucked around with this message at 10:35 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 08:46
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WarLocke posted:edit: Just read about an interesting fleet tactic on the official forum: the destroyer zerg fleet. Apparently due to the way combat is calculated (each ship fires on only one enemy ship per phase) you can just stack mobs of cheep destroyers with no armor, just filled to the gills with guns (which they get a discount on!) and steamroll bigger ships. If the other guy can bring 5 cruisers then you can bring 13 destroyers in the same size fleet. They blow your ships up easier but only 5 per phase at most (overkill damage goes poof) and your flying gunbags will blow up more industry investment in his CRs than he will to your DEs. Gonna try this tomorrow. In theory, I suppose, this is where missile launchers come in: They have a long fire/reload cycle, so presumably your ships will pick new targets if their target from the start of the round has already been destroyed. I haven't tested this at all so I don't know if the launchers do switch targets, but it'd seem to be a good counter to getting zerg'd. Are beams otherwise just the be-all, end-all of weaponry? I'm consistently getting murdered by Hissho fleets with about two-thirds of my MP and all they seem to use is beams. Trying to counter that by retrofitting with a lot of shields doesn't seem to do anything, they just slice through my battleships and dreadnoughts like they aren't there 
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May 16, 2012 09:58
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This zerg strategy seems a bit odd to me, possibly because I'm fighting with dreadnought fleets halfway across the galaxy, so when I pump out a fleet, I want to to stick around for a while when it reaches it's destination. Also, I've noticed that ships do tend to aim for just one ship, they tend to miss a lot I've had battles where my beam/kinetic dreads were pumping out so much firepower their missed fire killed one of the other ships in line. It's also been really annoying to watch half a fleet disappear at the end of a battle because some of the damage apparently took forever to register. In short, I'd like for combat to look a bit more... physical, for kinetics and missiles to have more of an immediate impact. I'd love to be able to tell the difference between a hit and a miss just by looking (sometimes it shows up, but half the time the camera is resolutely zoomed in on the smallest ship in the enemy fleet) Also nice would be a kind of SOTS type visual indicator of how damaged a ship is. I've lost track of the times I've had a bright shiny fleet at the end of phase three and then half of them start to lilt and break up. I would also dearly love beam lasers. Because beam lasers are just the best thing.
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May 16, 2012 11:02
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BlondRobin posted:So a friend bought me a copy of this game, and at first I thought it was really cool but after playing SotS I can't stand the amount of finicky micromanagement it insists on. Does anyone think they'll end up making it so you don't have to build a million pointless things at every single new system? It seems really cool, it has some cool race ideas, etc., but it's just not fun to waste hours having to mash every decent upgrade on every single planet, remembering order to build them in, etc. etc. I, uh, kinda doubt they'll get rid of the building system entirely, and I'm not really sure I'd want them to, since a lack of colony management was one of the things that bugged me about Sword of the Stars - your colonies being functionally identical aside from resources and size. Customization of each colony is fun (and important - building EVERYTHING is costly and wastes resources). That said, I wouldn't mind being able to set up "building templates" where I can get the basics (as I see them, anyways) set up automatically. Also I'd really like to be able to queue up an exploitation for a planet I'm going to colonize in advance.
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May 16, 2012 11:12
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Any news on when the patch will go live? I really want to get the victory conditions working.
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May 16, 2012 14:14
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Yeah but until they tune the dust/production formulas it doesn't matter much since you can outpace any of the maintenance costs without any trouble at all.Tomn posted:I, uh, kinda doubt they'll get rid of the building system entirely, and I'm not really sure I'd want them to, since a lack of colony management was one of the things that bugged me about Sword of the Stars - your colonies being functionally identical aside from resources and size. Customization of each colony is fun (and important - building EVERYTHING is costly and wastes resources). If it helps there's really not as many buildings to make anyway in comparison to some other games like GalCiv.
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May 16, 2012 14:24
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I still love MoO1 in that regard for its simplicity with only one "Planet" per system. This game is rather manageable though build-queue/order wise.
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May 16, 2012 14:29
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I just figured out that you "buy out" stuff to produce, that will make getting fleets quickly a lot faster.
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May 16, 2012 14:38
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I have a Sophons game near turn 200 that's been really enjoyable. If you spawn away from Cravers and Hissho, you can expand freely and tech past the competition easily. After stomping a rival Sophons civilization, I turned my attention to a nearby Horatio cluster (that's what you get for downgrading me from 'warm' to 'friendly'!). I parked an 18/18 dreadnought & battleship fleet on each of their systems and got ready to siege. The soon-to-be enemy had four or five 3/7 or 5/7 fleets grouped up in a pair of systems so I sent an additional two 18/18 fleets to each of them. When everything was in place I declared war, spammed all the siege buttons, and reached for my  hat. Everything went well for a few turns: my dreads were chewing through any resistance with minimal losses, two weak systems had already fallen and I was so sure of victory that I was inspecting all the worlds in the remaining enemy systems for unscanned moons (seriously AI, why don't you do this?). Out of nowhere, 19 7/7 enemy fleets show up at their main staging system. I won the early battles easily but I lost a ship every other fight. The battle results page showed full losses on the enemy side, but every dead fleet was replaced immediately: the planet never had less than 19 hostile fleets on it. I don't know if the game bugged or old Horatio was sitting on a giant pile of dustbux, but he eventually ate all of my invasion fleets. I resigned in disgust when he started moving into my territory. e: TheCosmicMuffet posted:I've lost fleets to trying to click around and merge after a launch or whatever. And what's weird is that the AI is a little lazy, so it doesn't necessarily kill you fresh ship before you can merge it into the orbiting fleet--and for that reason, I'm encouraged to try, and then I lose a ship occasionally to a one-sided fight. You can move ships directly from the hangar to any fleet in-orbit. From the galaxy view, click on the ship in orbit icon so you see the fleet list. At the bottom, it will say 'hangar: 1'. Click on that, the freshly-made ship will show up in the box to the right. Drag the ship onto the 'Fleet Alpha' bar in the fleet list. ploots fucked around with this message at 15:05 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 14:48
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turevidar posted:Out of nowhere, 19 7/7 enemy fleets show up at their main staging system. I won the early battles easily but I lost a ship every other fight. The battle results page shows full losses on the enemy side, but every dead fleet was replaced immediately: the planet never had less than 19 hostile fleets on it. I don't know if the game bugged or old Horatio was sitting on a giant pile of dustbux, but he eventually ate all of my invasion fleets. I resigned in disgust when he started moving into my territory. I like how the enemy can somehow see every fleet that you have, enough that building a single ship can suddenly shift them from being friendly towards you to being suspicious of your WARLIKE BEHAVIOR, and yet they can hide all these ships apparently in their cavernous anus until such time as they need them, without any of the rest of the galaxy being aware of their existence. What, me, bitter? No!
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May 16, 2012 15:04
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Krinkle posted:e: ok found the clone thing, but is it only heroes you can clone? All the food/population bonuses are the generic Horatios being cloned like rabbits, I guess. To clone an actual hero, go into the Academy screen as if you were going to hire a new one, but instead click on one you already have. There will be a "Clone (X Dust)" option there. e: Didn't they say all these instantly-built never-ending AI fleets was a bug?
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May 16, 2012 15:20
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Craven are awesome, they have a tech that gives 3+ fleet size for each ship type researched; with a 2+ bonus on top of each NEW ship type researched - meaning that the maximum fleet size you can have (including all relevant upgrades) is 26. I'm cranking out full fleets of cheap (50 prod) destroyers every turn and demolishing everything. Also, they have a tech that cuts 'locust-points' by 50%: craven-players should rush for this as it extends the lifespan of planets considerably.
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May 16, 2012 16:10
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Honestly all of the races seem fantastic, but the AI isn't specialized enough to take advantage of their racial abilities yet.
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May 16, 2012 16:17
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WarLocke posted:edit: Just read about an interesting fleet tactic on the official forum: the destroyer zerg fleet. Apparently due to the way combat is calculated (each ship fires on only one enemy ship per phase) you can just stack mobs of cheep destroyers with no armor, just filled to the gills with guns (which they get a discount on!) and steamroll bigger ships. If the other guy can bring 5 cruisers then you can bring 13 destroyers in the same size fleet. They blow your ships up easier but only 5 per phase at most (overkill damage goes poof) and your flying gunbags will blow up more industry investment in his CRs than he will to your DEs. Gonna try this tomorrow. This sounds eerily similar to how goons are getting military kills in EVE Online...
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May 16, 2012 16:32
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Rascyc posted:Honestly all of the races seem fantastic, but the AI isn't specialized enough to take advantage of their racial abilities yet. Only one I haven't figured out is Hissho. Horatio? LOOK AT ALL MY PEOPLE! Population/Industry Exploitation, followed by waves of max level heroes handling every job, since they seem to get around the hero cap through clones. Rather then adapt to situations they just brute force everybody with more Horatios. Empire? MONEY! Problem has come up? Just instabuild several fleets to handle it. They changed something? Just instabuy a ton of new upgrades to your fleet to adapt to this issue. It doesn't matter what your foes do, because you can just buy your way out of it. Cravers? Look at my gigantic death fleets! Yay by conquering stuff I get increased industry, so I'll just warpath my way across the milky way, and be able to pump out ships on my newly conquered planets within several turns. Only thing that can stop me once I'm on the warpath is stealing my planets from me and holding them, since my home planets have been totally depleted of resources. Sophons? Completely outtech everyone. If you play your cards right, you'll have lasers and deep space mining while most of the races are still using basic weaponry/just starting to expand. Hissho are honorable warriors with katanas.  I wonder how multiplayer will turn out, and if it'll ease some of these things down. Like I wonder if the Empires ability to adapt so quickly will counter the Sophons ability to pump out new ship types, or if the Horatios just sheer numbers/comeback ability/growth will be a counter to the Cravers deathfleets.
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May 16, 2012 16:52
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Tomn posted:Customization of each colony is fun (and important - building EVERYTHING is costly and wastes resources). Building "everything" is- sure, there are some exceptions- but mostly it's things like "xenotourism agency! costs a tiny amount of dust, but will produce at least equivalent if not more on almost any colony!" Similarly, every straight output building? It's either worth the cost (in which case you'll always want it, assuming you can pay for it) or it's not. It's not like some worlds get percent boosts and they'll only be worth it there. A tiny handful of the buildings are good in specific cases, i.e. they only boost certain worlds, but those are few and far between. And most of them are just straight output buildings. That's not customization. I wouldn't mind if they were actual choices, or customization, but they're not as far as I can tell. Rascyc posted:Wait for this upcoming patch and see if the governor AI will take care of the busy work for you? I don't know, it sounds like you are done with the 4x genre in general. After SotS, I'm not sure why a game has to drown you in busywork. Most of this could easily be done by a governor AI, but those tend to be awful, insisting on building spearmen forever. I'm not sure I'm done with the 4x genre, but I guess I am if this has to be part of every 4x because Civ did it. Thanks anyway, tho.
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May 16, 2012 16:54
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Rookersh posted:
Well that's obviously going to be a matter of fine-tuning balance, but right now 90% of the customization of your empire and what you can do is the tech tree (especially when it comes to combat), which means that it looks like the Sophons would have a major advantage. I think there needs to be a fair bit more work done to really differentiate the different races.
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May 16, 2012 17:00
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Rookersh posted:since they seem to get around the hero cap through clones.
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May 16, 2012 17:09
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Rookersh posted:Only one I haven't figured out is Hissho. Hissio are 2 step. 1) My ships are better then your ships 2) Invasion FIDS bonus Normally in my Hissio games once I start rolling and invade a planet or two the game is pretty much over because my super fleet and general now have enough experience to be a real pain to kill and my FIDS bonus starts flying up at the speed of light. The small fleet of Destroyers would make this less effective, but given the racial bonus's the Hissio are the best at doing it themselves.
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May 16, 2012 17:37
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The patch is live  Was about 213 MB  As you can see, there is a warning when you end your turn with no research selected. I enabled the turn lock option, so I was unable to proceed to the next turn (I tried several times) until I started research. There still aren't any warnings about empty system construction queues, though. Fleets have a new system action button for interception duty. Edit: Drag-n-drop construction queues work pretty well, just drag an item over another one and it will take its place, pushing everything down.
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May 16, 2012 17:40
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awesome!
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May 16, 2012 17:52
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Interception fleet orders, construction queue reordering, unassigned research alerts, turn lock, victory condition customization, and general AI improvements? I was going to spend tonight messing with Skyrim modding but I GUESS NOT NOW.
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May 16, 2012 17:59
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toasterwarrior posted:This sounds eerily similar to how goons are getting military kills in EVE Online... I tried this today and while it works pretty well it's a drag on your industry because you have to keep replacing ships. Still, 11 UE Destroyers would reliably take out 5 Hissho Cruisers and only lose 2-4 ships per fight. Not sure how much of that was a tech imbalance though. Rookersh posted:Horatio? LOOK AT ALL MY PEOPLE! Population/Industry Exploitation, followed by waves of max level heroes handling every job, since they seem to get around the hero cap through clones. Rather then adapt to situations they just brute force everybody with more Horatios. I thought cloning was just for getting a class combination you liked and/or suddenly getting another leveled up hero, but the cap was the same (ie, if you cap at 3 heros, that's either 3 unique heroes or 1 hero cloned twice). No?
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May 16, 2012 18:24
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BlondRobin posted:Building "everything" is- sure, there are some exceptions- but mostly it's things like "xenotourism agency! costs a tiny amount of dust, but will produce at least equivalent if not more on almost any colony!" Similarly, every straight output building? It's either worth the cost (in which case you'll always want it, assuming you can pay for it) or it's not. It's not like some worlds get percent boosts and they'll only be worth it there. A tiny handful of the buildings are good in specific cases, i.e. they only boost certain worlds, but those are few and far between. And most of them are just straight output buildings. Beyond that, there's a lot of choices of what improvements you build. There's also a lot of choices on what you do with an entire system (analogous to what improvements you build on what panels in Civ). The real issue right now is that monetary costs of improvements/colonies/ships/heroes is rather low and can be offset extremely easily, so it seems like you are always building stuff (including ships) everywhere simply because "why not?" Like I said before, that's a tuning issue. They'll work on it. I hope. I'm personally in the camp that I hope they get rid of the "conversion" stuff and just make sliders and tune from there. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 18:30 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 18:28
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I really feel the urge to play a new space 4x game. Can anybody tell me please, on a scale ranging from Sword of the Stars 2 to Master of Orion 2, how playable is this beta version already? 
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May 16, 2012 18:54
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Tarquinn posted:Can anybody tell me please, on a scale ranging from Sword of the Stars 2 to Master of Orion 2, how playable is this beta version already? This is the closest contender to the Master of Orion 2 throne that I've seen. I hope that I do not eat those words later, but that is my initial reaction. Still needs some work, but it's an alpha for chrissake.
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May 16, 2012 18:56
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Tarquinn posted:Can anybody tell me please, on a scale ranging from Sword of the Stars 2 to Master of Orion 2, how playable is this beta version already? The alpha of Endless Space is at least as playable as Sword of the Stars (1) was at release. e: Well, SotS had multiplayer at release but I think ES is actually less buggy overall in comparison. WarLocke fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 19:02
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Tarquinn posted:I really feel the urge to play a new space 4x game. The most noteworthy thing to say about Endless Space is that it's a pretty safe game. The only area I'd say the game is taking a risk on is the spin they're doing on combat. Beyond that, it's really taking a lot of the staples and doing a complete facelift/quality of life upgrade. The game is going to get referenced to MoO2 a lot because it feels so simple to play but remains compelling and fun. Lack of good AI (although it will still do some mean things to you until you learn the fundamentals) and some tuning issues on resources are the two biggest warts I can think of from the 4x angle. Some people complain about aspects of the combat engine from the cinematic point of view (camera controls, etc) as well. Honestly for what, 22 bucks, it's at least a couple dozen hours of fun game play. I don't know this company in particular but I think they are doing that thing that every small game company should probably do to simply feed themselves when starting out - picking up a neglected niche and just doing it loving right.
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May 16, 2012 19:08
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The Output -> Dust icon has been changed and there appears to be a few minor icon changes across the board. The devs for this are seriously impressing me.
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May 16, 2012 19:47
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When playing the Horatio i managed to get one lad up to lvl 12 with good planetary bonuses, i then deleted all my other early low level copies of him and immediately cranked out 6 brand new lvl 12 heroes. By turn 150 i had eleven hero clones running my empire.  If this game isn't a contender for replacing MOO2 when finished i don't know what is.
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May 16, 2012 20:21
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Yeah, the Hissho are basically the locomotive, once you get that baby going it becomes a nightmare to stop. Your ships all get tons of bonuses to fighting, they even get better at fighting while they are not fighting by playing video games.
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May 16, 2012 20:48
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Rookersh posted:
Hissho are basically moderate Carvers. Slighlty weaker deathfleets and a slower start, but no resource depleting to worry about.
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May 16, 2012 20:57
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New faction announced! The Amoeba! Fills the 'diplomatic race' slot. From the link, and also note the mention silicanoid rock monster faction: quote:The Amoeba is the oldest known race in the Endless Space universe after the sentient mineral species known as the Harmony. Evolving from a very simple single-celled organism on a planet without a molten core and therefore no plate tectonics and little to no evolutionary adaptation, the Amoeba simply evolved slowly, over time, growing and developing their communal knowledge.      It's also worth noting that they have a contest to design Amoeba heroes, just like they did for a few previous factions. Get your own little block of text into the game!
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May 16, 2012 21:01
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Oh wow, those look different. Hoping their alignment is evil because evil space amoebas would be hilarious.
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May 16, 2012 21:03
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New Games2Gether stuff as well, remember to keep voting on stuff, last week was Hissho designs/Sophon Heroes, week before was Pirate designs/Sophon heroes, this week is Amoeba Designs/what feature to add next, razing/autoexplore/retreat. If goons all got together and voted on specific things, we could get the more important stuff in the forefront, like EVERYONE SHOULD BE VOTING FOR RETREAT RIGHT NOW. http://endless-space.amplitude-studios.com/Games2gether
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May 16, 2012 21:07
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posted:The Amoeba is the oldest known race in the Endless Space universe after the sentient mineral species known as the Harmony. Amoeba sounds cool but Harmony better be included after this tease. I want to play as some talking rock salts. Bonus points if ship combat is just them slowly calcifying their enemies.
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May 16, 2012 21:12
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