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Harley is gonna be water cooled soon 
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May 21, 2012 02:55
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Aren't the vrods water cooled?
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May 21, 2012 02:59
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They don't count, it's liquid freedom
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May 21, 2012 03:01
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Yeah, I mean ALL of them. V-rod is a separate model line of its own.
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May 21, 2012 03:04
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Z3n posted:Aren't the vrods water cooled? They are, and they're the bastard child of Harley's lineup. They're actually looked down upon by Stereotypical Harley people.
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May 21, 2012 03:08
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There's some patent drawings floating around of H-D's water cooling solution for the non-V-Rod models, they're basically just going to be water cooling the heads and tucking the radiators pretty much totally out of sight. Air-cooled engines are not long for this world anyway, emissions standards will kill them off sooner rather than later.
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May 21, 2012 03:11
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2ndclasscitizen posted:There's some patent drawings floating around of H-D's water cooling solution for the non-V-Rod models, they're basically just going to be water cooling the heads and tucking the radiators pretty much totally out of sight. Air-cooled engines are not long for this world anyway, emissions standards will kill them off sooner rather than later. I'd make fun of Harley's future water cooled heads with finned air cooled cylinders, but that's exactly what my Ducati is. It's still idiotic though.
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May 21, 2012 03:17
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Gotta love it when marketing departments don't "get" social media
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May 21, 2012 05:57
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redscare posted:Gotta love it when marketing departments don't "get" social media When the parody has jumped the shark (based on the last batch of pseudo-tweets, it clearly has) does the thing parodied become cool again? Allow for the possibility that they figured negative/jokester attention was still attention, and everyone who has gone back to the well has repeatedly placed eyeballs on at least three versions of the HD logo, an eagle, a skull, and a bunch of ill-advised US-centric sloganeering that is at odds with the company's global strategy. That's a net marketing win, actually.
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May 21, 2012 07:15
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Marv Hushman posted:Allow for the possibility that they figured negative/jokester attention was still attention, and everyone who has gone back to the well has repeatedly placed eyeballs on at least three versions of the HD logo, an eagle, a skull, and a bunch of ill-advised US-centric sloganeering that is at odds with the company's global strategy. I don't think any competent marketer actually believes that "any press is good press," especially when marketing a name that has as much traction as HD. Even among controversial campaigns, the negative attention has to remain on the ad, not the product. When your product is being trashed in your campaign without spin or control, no amount of silver lining makes sense.
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May 21, 2012 09:04
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I remember hearing somebody commenting critically on an HD marketing thing a few years ago, can't remember the details, but there was some HD internal memo about leveraging their brand image or something, and the guy said, "You already have a customer base who tattoos your logo into their skin. How much more leveraged can you get?"
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May 21, 2012 14:16
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If you guys are willing to believe a "I know a guy who knows a guy" story, those water cooled head ideas have been floating around Harley for years and have repeatedly been shot down. Emissions probably will eventually force it, but I wouldn't expect it any time soon.
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May 21, 2012 17:46
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GlazedMcGuffin posted:I don't think any competent marketer actually believes that "any press is good press," especially when marketing a name that has as much traction as HD. Even among controversial campaigns, the negative attention has to remain on the ad, not the product. When your product is being trashed in your campaign without spin or control, no amount of silver lining makes sense. The campaign started in March. Are you suggesting that they haven't noticed after 2+ months, or that the merry pranksters at CA were the first to exploit it? I love a good joke, and some of the above are first rate. I'm even game for taking it a step further and contacting their people to find out what on earth they were thinking. As Rev says, this isn't for the converted. Maybe it's for the eventually converted. Sooner or later, you tire of looking like Colonel Stapp in a fetal position, or looking at the 20-year old tarp-covered pile at the back of the garage that houses the big red machine and the testicle jar, assuming you were allowed to keep either. At that point, I don't where else these people would go--all of the bored millionaires trying to make a go of iconic, retro and boutique brands will have moved on to running Napa Valley vineyards with clever names.
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May 21, 2012 19:02
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Deeters posted:If you guys are willing to believe a "I know a guy who knows a guy" story, those water cooled head ideas have been floating around Harley for years and have repeatedly been shot down. Emissions probably will eventually force it, but I wouldn't expect it any time soon.
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May 22, 2012 00:43
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Their big seller in Europe is already liquid cooled, so there's that.
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May 22, 2012 01:06
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What effect does water cooling have on emissions? Don't get it.
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May 22, 2012 10:48
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Backov posted:What effect does water cooling have on emissions? Don't get it. An air-cooled engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and will fluctuate, depending whether you're sitting still and idling or riding at speed. Stable temperatures are better for predictable emissions and faster engine-warmup is much better for catalytic converters.
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May 22, 2012 13:07
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What's the appeal of air cooled? History, easier mechanics, or something else?
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May 22, 2012 13:31
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To me it seems like a no brainer - air cooled all the way. Radiators suck. Water pumps suck. All that poo poo sucks and not having to deal with it on motorcycles is fantastic.
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May 22, 2012 13:45
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KARMA! posted:What's the appeal of air cooled? History, easier mechanics, or something else? No need to worry about coolant, water pumps etc., that's pretty much it. Plus finned engines look cool.
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May 22, 2012 13:59
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Backov posted:To me it seems like a no brainer - air cooled all the way. Radiators suck. Water pumps suck. All that poo poo sucks and not having to deal with it on motorcycles is fantastic. Unless, of course, you want performance out of your bikes.
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May 22, 2012 14:12
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KozmoNaut posted:An air-cooled engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and will fluctuate, depending whether you're sitting still and idling or riding at speed. Right, but it's more than just stable emissions...a hot engine produces more nitrogen oxides, and a cool engine more hydrocarbons. NOs are significantly more toxic than HCs, and harder to clean up in a catalytic converter. I do kind of like that with an air-cooled engine there isn't an instant-overheat failure mode (coolant loss), though. In that sense they're more reliable, yes?
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May 22, 2012 16:03
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Z3n posted:Unless, of course, you want performance out of your bikes.  "Performance" - horsepower is cool and all, but for a street bike I kind of just want it to be comfortable and fun.
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May 22, 2012 17:29
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Sagebrush posted:Right, but it's more than just stable emissions...a hot engine produces more nitrogen oxides, and a cool engine more hydrocarbons. NOs are significantly more toxic than HCs, and harder to clean up in a catalytic converter. The failure mode for an air cooled bike is a warped head, so...no, they're not. You can run a water cooled bike without a good amount of coolant for a long time (don't ask me how I know), but eventually it'll croak. If you don't keep air moving over the fins of an air cooled bike, eventually it'll cook the engine block, which was the original justification for lane sharing. clutchpuck posted:
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May 22, 2012 17:44
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The difference is Air cooled bikes love freedom and hate cagers and liquid cooling bikes are for fanny-pack wearing europeans and those shifty asians.
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May 22, 2012 21:21
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Can't have a rice burner without water.  (Has anyone else ever heard that phrase used? I only heard it when I was a kid...)
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May 22, 2012 21:24
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That's a little too clever to catch on with True American Hogriders®.
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May 22, 2012 21:28
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What has this thread turned into 
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May 22, 2012 22:47
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^^^^^^ For a while it really was doing an admirable job as a safe space for the CA Harley owners, but I guess the urge to invade was just too strongZ3n posted:Can't have a rice burner without water. It's funny, because when the term "rice burner" was invented, all the Japanese bikes were air-cooled too.
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May 22, 2012 22:48
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It was this threads destiny to devolve into harley loling
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May 22, 2012 22:48
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Olde Weird Tip posted:It was this threads destiny to devolve into harley loling We were doing fine until that terrible attempt at social media marketing via twitter.
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May 22, 2012 23:12
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I posted about my bike on the internet but everyone started making fun of me #stereotypicalharley
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May 22, 2012 23:38
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clutchpuck posted:
This is a perfectly reasonable statement, but Harley has to have bragging rights on horsepower and displacement over those gol-durned metric cruisers so they keep making their air-cooled engines bigger and heavier to compensate
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May 23, 2012 01:18
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May 23, 2012 02:56
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Sagebrush posted:^^^^^^ For a while it really was doing an admirable job as a safe space for the CA Harley owners, but I guess the urge to invade was just too strong No one is safe from the long, stereotypical unfeeling touch of Harley's marketing arm.
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May 23, 2012 03:26
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I feel bad, cause if Harley people invaded a BMW thread, I'd want to stab them all with a drive shaft. So here's a Harley I like http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2010/11/17/harley-sportster-cafe-racer.html
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May 23, 2012 03:26
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Snowdens Secret posted:This is a perfectly reasonable statement, but Harley has to have bragging rights on horsepower and displacement over those gol-durned metric cruisers so they keep making their air-cooled engines bigger and heavier to compensate Actually the Japanese makers took the lead on the displacement wars about a decade ago. Yamaha makes an 1854cc engine. Suzuki also makes an 1800. Kawasaki makes a 2000cc engine for their Vulcan, they largest on the market. Harley's largest is an 1800, and it was just released in the last couple years as an option on the "CVO" bikes.
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May 23, 2012 04:08
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Would. angryhampster posted:Actually the Japanese makers took the lead on the displacement wars about a decade ago. Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Rocket_III
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May 23, 2012 04:11
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:I feel bad, cause if Harley people invaded a BMW thread, I'd want to stab them all with a drive shaft. Hot drat, where do I sign up? 
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May 23, 2012 04:20
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Holy crap I've never heard of this. To be fair though -- I was only referring to twins.
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May 23, 2012 04:29
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