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Above Our Own
Jun 24, 2009

by Shine

Trump posted:

Have you read the script?
No, but I did find the complete lack of romance in all of Tolkien's work weird and off-putting so I don't really feel like this is a negative change.

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Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

Above Our Own posted:

No, but I did find the complete lack of romance in all of Tolkien's work weird and off-putting so I don't really feel like this is a negative change.

I admit to being confused as to why romance is a necessary ingredient.

ComposerGuy
Jul 28, 2007

Conspicuous Absinthe
I think 10 years ago my late-teens, early-twenties self would have been up in arms about this...but now I find I just don't care that much. It's the kind of thing that's easy enough to ignore and frankly when you ask Hollywood to adapt something, poo poo like this is going to go down nearly every time, so I know that going in.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I wouldn't have been as annoyed about this if they hadn't felt the need to pretty up Kili for it, as I am pretty sure this is the precise reason they did that. Only pretty people for romances, none for guys with awesome beards.

Wendell
May 11, 2003

Viridiant posted:

I wouldn't have been as annoyed about this if they hadn't felt the need to pretty up Kili for it, as I am pretty sure this is the precise reason they did that. Only pretty people for romances, none for guys with awesome beards.

Yeah, that is weak. You'd think Peter Jackson would have free reign to say, "No, go away," to any meddlers, but I guess not.

Trump
Jul 16, 2003

Cute

Wendell posted:

Yeah, that is weak. You'd think Peter Jackson would have free reign to say, "No, go away," to any meddlers, but I guess not.

It's not meddling. They did the same thing with LOTR and it wasn't untill half-way into shooting the scenes of Arwen fighting at Helms Deep they decided it probably wasn't a very good idea and toned the love story down a little.

I mind it's all Philippa Boyens' fault though.

BogDew
Jun 14, 2006

E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

Trump posted:

I mind it's all Philippa Boyens' fault though.
It's not too surprising when you consider from a female perspective there's not much in the narrative for women to latch onto and in today's world going doe eyed for a king is a bit quaint. Arwen at Helms Deep was in no doubt an attempt to make her a bit more than the lonely girl sitting at home vs Eowyn who's pretty much a trailblazer by comparison.

Tokien considered marrying off Eowyn and Aragorn but figured he was a bit too old. He also toyed with the idea of having her killed and Aragon grieving that he never did marry her.

But from that spoiler it kind of appears to be a bit of a joke by way of trying to solve how the hell do you have several dwarves who are mostly background characters not get forgotten beyond "Thorin and the fat one".

well why not
Feb 10, 2009




adding a romance ... I think it's good to differentiate the dwarves, and this should help. Unsurprising that it's got to be the 'Pretty Dwarf', though. It'd be nice if each dwarf was recognizable, I wonder how they'll split them up further, aside from a range of amazing hair.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Considering what we know of Jackson and LOTR, anything he adds will not be so bad as to ruin the movie or the main plot. I just finished my yearly re-read of the LOTR, and Jackson got the major story points all right, and kept to the themes of the book beautifully. Some poo poo he changes might be dumb, but whatever, we are going to get Thranduil's caves and the The Lonely Mountain, and talking trolls, and Goblin Kings and the Men of Dale. Its going to be great and anyone who says otherwise is going to be a spoilsport nerd.

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004

Hopefully it won't actually be a romance at all, but more like the scenes between Gimli and Galadriel in Fellowship of the Ring, most of which were cut(it was almost all in the Extended version), and kept very short to begin with.

Rat Patrol
Feb 15, 2008

kill kill kill kill
kill me now

I said come in! posted:

Hopefully it won't actually be a romance at all, but more like the scenes between Gimli and Galadriel in Fellowship of the Ring, most of which were cut(it was almost all in the Extended version), and kept very short to begin with.

This is pretty much what I'm hoping for. I resent the idea that as a woman I neeeeed a woman shoehorned in as a love interest to be invested in this story. Tolkien didn't write a lot of female characters in his stories, but I already know that and don't need a romance bone weakly tossed my way to make me want to see the movie.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales
It's going to be less a romance and more a gently caress-buddy thing. Like, you'll have Bilbo fighting spiders interspersed with quick cuts of raw dwarf/elf action. All in glorious 48 fps.

Jesto
Dec 22, 2004

Balls.
Nevermind.

Jesto fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Oct 1, 2014

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Inventing a romance for the movie is a solution - not necessarily the best one - to a very real problem, which can be best summarized by asking somebody to describe Kili as he was portrayed in the source material.

Considering that maybe ten of the dwarves have the exact same problem, throwing in a romance subplot to distinguish him might be less a matter of "How can we make this character more interesting?" and more "How can we make this character more interesting with a trick we haven't already used on one of the others?"

DominoDancing
Apr 26, 2008

Each morning after Sunblest
Feel the benefit
Mental arithmetic

Jesto posted:

Literally no one watches Lord of the Rings for the romance subplot of all things. When Arwen comes on screen during that dream sequence or whatever it is I just impatiently wait for to be over so the actual story can progress. Why even bother?

Sorry, wrong. You don't watch it for that and neither do I. You probably won't find a lot of people who watch LotR for the romance plot on these boards. But I can tell you that the movies earned their billion dollars by appealing to "teenage girls" as well. I actually know a couple who wouldn't shut up about Arwen and Aragorn.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

DominoDancing posted:

I actually know a couple who wouldn't shut up about Arwen and Aragorn.

I'll always remember sitting in the movie theater watching Return of the King, and during the coronation when the elves show up and then step aside to reveal Arwen, there was complete silence for a second before one guy in the audience blurted out,"YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!" :)

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

It's really easy to forget that for a lot of people, the films were one of their first encounters with the character. "Aragon's tragic destined romance with his elf lover" helps round out his character and flesh out the scenes with Eowyn.

I know people hate romance and think it should be banned from all films aside from romantic comedies, but LotR is not a film which is hurt by playing up the romantic aspects because they are incredibly important to some of the central characters. It isn't why I watch LotR but I also read the books beforehand. Ending with the Aragorn/Arwen wedding without spending a fair amount of time on it would have been one hell of a failure.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jun 11, 2012

Rat Patrol
Feb 15, 2008

kill kill kill kill
kill me now
I don't think the romance was out of place in LOTR (though I do think it was frequently clumsily handled). Aragorn's relationship with Arwen was a big deal for his character.

I DO however think that a romance is out of place for the Hobbit and it feels like pandering, which I do not like.

Echo Chamber
Oct 16, 2008

best username/post combo
As someone who barely remembered reading The Hobbit in high school; if they're going to add a lot of details that weren't in the book to justify two movies; it wouldn't hurt that romance is simply one of dozens of things that they're adding.

Of course, talk of romance could still be premature speculation. Meh, the Arwen stuff didn't hurt LOTR in my mind.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy
I don't think the Arwen stuff is bad because it already existed in the mythos, even if it wasn't visited heavily in the story itself.

Not only did this particular romance not exist, it's also extremely unlikely to exist. Gimli and Legolas' friendship was supposed to be remarkable, and that only came about because they spent so much time traveling together. Elves and dwarves have bad history, and a big part of Gimli's initial resentment towards Legolas came from Thranduil's treatment of Gimli's father and companions.

Now Kili's going to have a romance with a female elf that what, they just meet on the road or something? Love at first sight? Is he going to fall in love with one of his jailers?

I mean I guess he looks more like an elf than a dwarf anyway so who knows?

Man I am sperging.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Maybe he'll fall in love with her the same way Gimli fell in love with Galadriel. As in, yeah right you wish, dwarf.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

kiimo posted:

Maybe he'll fall in love with her the same way Gimli fell in love with Galadriel. As in, yeah right you wish, dwarf.

Maybe SHE will fall in love with him, and beg him for one hair from his mighty beard?

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007

Jerusalem posted:

Maybe SHE will fall in love with him, and beg him for one hair from his mighty beard?

Yes, let's hope its that.

BONE DOG
Jun 7, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Echo Chamber posted:

As someone who barely remembered reading The Hobbit in high school; if they're going to add a lot of details that weren't in the book to justify two movies; it wouldn't hurt that romance is simply one of dozens of things that they're adding.

Of course, talk of romance could still be premature speculation. Meh, the Arwen stuff didn't hurt LOTR in my mind.

It didn't hurt it, but it was completely unnecessary. At least it was to me anyways. It added a totally forgetable element that just didn't need to be there. Maybe some people require a romantic interest sub plot in every movie that they see but I just don't get it.

It would make even less sense for the Hobbit to have a love story in it than it did for LOTR.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I just realized Gimli and Galdriel both ended up at the Blessed Isles. Gimli standing on the shore, clutching his encased hair, going "So you're saying there's a CHANCE"

TheBigBudgetSequel
Nov 25, 2008

It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

kiimo posted:

I just realized Gimli and Galdriel both ended up at the Blessed Isles. Gimli standing on the shore, clutching his encased hair, going "So you're saying there's a CHANCE"

You are teetering on the dangerous edge of writing a Gimli/Galadriel fanfic.

Nilbop
Jun 5, 2004

Looks like someone forgot his hardhat...

kiimo posted:

I just realized Gimli and Galdriel both ended up at the Blessed Isles. Gimli standing on the shore, clutching his encased hair, going "So you're saying there's a CHANCE"

"There's something I've wanted to tell you since the moment I laid eyes on you."

"Yes?"

"... I ... I desperately want to make love to a schoolboy"

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
I am not a book purist at all and I know the romance stuff in Lotr is not popular with goons but I personally liked it a lot. It didn't take up a lot of time and that scene where Arwen sees her future is really neat. Overall I think the films are stronger with it in

They should have cut out the trees though, my god they were so dumb looking

Dr Snofeld
Apr 30, 2009

kiimo posted:

I just realized Gimli and Galdriel both ended up at the Blessed Isles. Gimli standing on the shore, clutching his encased hair, going "So you're saying there's a CHANCE"

I loved that little aside at the end of the book about how Legolas and Gimli went and had a few adventures before Legolas buggered off west and brought Gimli along, possibly because they'd both be really bored if separated.

Rat Patrol
Feb 15, 2008

kill kill kill kill
kill me now

Jerusalem posted:

Maybe SHE will fall in love with him, and beg him for one hair from his mighty beard?

Oh god and then a sappy "sad elf single tear" at his grave when he dies at the end :barf:

Nilbop
Jun 5, 2004

Looks like someone forgot his hardhat...

Zzulu posted:

They should have cut out the trees though, my god they were so dumb looking

The ... trees? What, Fangorn? The elven city? The ents? I thought the trees looked grand. My only problem was there was absolutely no middle ground between old-but-regular-sized trees in Fangorn or Mirkwood or wherever and the abolsutely gigantic skyscraper sized ones the elven city was built on. I thought it itself looked good, but there should have been some difference in the foliage as we worked our way towards it.

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

Maybe she is a very ugly elf, and she has nothing to lose by pursuing the relationship.

Admiral Bosch
Apr 19, 2007
Who is Admiral Aken Bosch, and what is that old scoundrel up to?

Dr Snofeld posted:

I loved that little aside at the end of the book about how Legolas and Gimli went and had a few adventures before Legolas buggered Gimli

I'd watch that movie

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

The trees in Lothlorien are magic trees from Numenor and Tol Erresea that only Galadriel can grow apparently.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy

euphronius posted:

The trees in Lothlorien are magic trees from Numenor and Tol Erresea that only Galadriel can grow apparently.

I thought it was more that she just hated sharing. I imagine Sam was the first person in Middle Earth she'd ever given a seed to.

Crappy Jack
Nov 21, 2005

We got some serious shit to discuss.

Jesto posted:

I can't wait for the day when a majority women start finding female characters in movies that only serve the purpose of 'The Love Interest' pandering to be incredibly insulting so the practice stops altogether.

Literally no one watches Lord of the Rings for the romance subplot of all things. When Arwen comes on screen during that dream sequence or whatever it is I just impatiently wait for to be over so the actual story can progress. Why even bother?

Unfortunately, Hollywood would just take this as a sign to stop including women in movies at all and just focus entirely on bromances.

Rat Patrol
Feb 15, 2008

kill kill kill kill
kill me now
Haha, I don't think the reason Hollywood panders with two dimensional love interest roles for women because the majority of women aren't tired of it yet. Just like how Hollywood generally either kills, cures, or ignores disabled people despite the fact that disabled people are probably pretty sick of that poo poo (to be fair, It's better than it was, but not great)

I don't think there's a thing women could do to make the bullshit tired old plot devices suddenly stop.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Dr Snofeld posted:

I loved that little aside at the end of the book about how Legolas and Gimli went and had a few adventures before Legolas buggered off west and brought Gimli along, possibly because they'd both be really bored if separated.

One of my favorite sections is how Legolas reluctantly agrees to go into the caves behind Helm's Deep with Gimli, who has been raving about how amazing they are. When he comes out, he's really quiet and introspective because he's basically been shown another form of beauty that he (who is ancient despite his appearance) has been ignorant of for millennia.

Mr. Gibbycrumbles
Aug 30, 2004

Do you think your paladin sword can defeat me?

En garde, I'll let you try my Wu-Tang style
Aidan Turner actually says "I guess he knows nothing can ever happen" in the goddamn quote this news is taken from, so why are people jumping ahead and thinking this is some sort of serious dwarf/elf romance subplot?

This will just be a slightly more drawn-out version of the Gimli-Galadriel thing, and I guarantee it will be played for laughs.

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Above Our Own
Jun 24, 2009

by Shine
But you see they are corrupting Tolkien's master vision

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