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Mega64 posted:To be fair, does anyone really want to identify with a bare-chested street urchin who has brain damage? Corrected  And to answer that question, apparently SE executives thought so. Hence, the street rat.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:19
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Is XII-2 any good if I only got five hours into XIII before putting it down in disgust? I heard it was better, but I'm not sure if that means it's worth playing.
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Jun 10, 2012 23:44
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Die Laughing posted:Is XII-2 any good if I only got five hours into XIII before putting it down in disgust? I heard it was better, but I'm not sure if that means it's worth playing. In every way besides the plot. My favorite gameplay from the series.
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Jun 10, 2012 23:50
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Pesky Splinter posted:Corrected It would've been awesome to have some kind of actual Aladdin character in XII. 
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Jun 11, 2012 00:01
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Krad posted:It would've been awesome to have some kind of actual Aladdin character in XII. And if Princess Also, I knew I wouldn't be able to resist. I have #regharded so hard for the Four Job Fiesta.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:14
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Die Laughing posted:Is XII-2 any good if I only got five hours into XIII before putting it down in disgust? I heard it was better, but I'm not sure if that means it's worth playing. No more running down hallways for segments of in game cutscenes for hours, you unlock the ability to do everything in the battle system very quickly (in XIII I don't think you actually get everything until Pulse), Vanille only has a handful of lines... My experience has been that if you liked the battle system in XIII, you'll generally enjoy XIII-2. And they better give me a XIII-3
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Jun 11, 2012 00:14
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Winks posted:My experience has been that if you liked the battle system in XIII, you'll generally enjoy XIII-2. I would say FFXIII-2 manages to screw up the battle system through awful balance while not actually improving anything else myself. What happens in FFXIII-2 is that you end up so cartoonishly overpowered so early on that none of the faintly interesting things about the combat system ever matter because you kill everything too quickly.
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Jun 11, 2012 01:27
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ImpAtom posted:I would say FFXIII-2 manages to screw up the battle system through awful balance while not actually improving anything else myself. Huh, I never really felt overpowered in my playthrough. I mean, there were only a few random encounters that gave me any trouble and I certainly wouldn't say the game was ever exceptionally difficult, but the bosses and tougher encounters generally put up a good fight, and I thought the endgame was very well done, in terms of difficulty. Was there some monster in particular you picked up, or do I just suck? 
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Jun 11, 2012 01:35
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Spiritus Nox posted:Huh, I never really felt overpowered in my playthrough. I mean, there were only a few random encounters that gave me any trouble and I certainly wouldn't say the game was ever exceptionally difficult, but the bosses and tougher encounters generally put up a good fight, and I thought the endgame was very well done, in terms of difficulty. I think it may depend on the way you go. I went to one of the higher-level areas early and by the time I was through it it felt like nothing else in the game could keep up with me. I really really wanted to like it. I liked FFXIII's combat system a lot. 
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Jun 11, 2012 01:42
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ImpAtom posted:I think it may depend on the way you go. I went to one of the higher-level areas early and by the time I was through it it felt like nothing else in the game could keep up with me. Which one, out of curiosity?
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Jun 11, 2012 02:09
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ImpAtom posted:I would say FFXIII-2 manages to screw up the battle system through awful balance while not actually improving anything else myself. This argument seems weird to me because this happens in FFXIII all the time.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:13
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If you use the paradigm system well and min/max your crystarium, you're going to annihilate pretty much everything even if you're not overleveled. I'm okay with a difficulty curve that allows that though. And I thought the monster system was interesting. I would prefer a theoretical XIII-3 to return to 3 full fledged party members though.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:21
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Azure_Horizon posted:This argument seems weird to me because this happens in FFXIII all the time. Where you could start turning 13 inside out is accessory crafting to start stacking extra stats early on with the crappy materials you find that are otherwise going to go unused anyway. Another way is if you had a deft enough hand to do manual input because a lot of the autoattack ai was inefficient, especially in regards to tricks around AOE and buffs/debuffs. I ended up turned off from FF13-2 in spite of loving 13 for the combat because I felt either overleveled or underleveled at any given moment.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:31
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zedprime posted:FF13 was pretty tightly tuned with seemingly a lot of thought into what stats you were expected to have by the end of the chapter since there were the chapter boss hoops to jump through to advance the crystarium. I skipped tons of enemies as I ran endlessly through hallways and never felt like I faced a difficult fight until I reached Gran Pulse.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:34
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Gaseous Snake posted:I just beat XIII-2 and from what I heard the ending was pretty dark. I mean right now it's playing the song and it looks like everything's going to be a-okay I love how this is the exact thought process I went through during the ending. I also haven't kept up with the DLC side of XIII-2 for a while. Went to look at all the possible DLC and it added up to roughly $45!  Seriously, for all the stuff this game did right, who the gently caress paid nearly double for all the DLC which from what I hear didn't add much to the game itself~
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Jun 11, 2012 02:36
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ShadeofDante posted:I also haven't kept up with the DLC side of XIII-2 for a while. Went to look at all the possible DLC and it added up to roughly $45! The story content all together is $14. The rest would be boss fights and costumes that run around 2-4 bucks a pop. Sazh's is practically worth it alone for Chronobind. Lightning's isn't that great, to be honest, and doesn't resolve anything like some Square dude claimed it did. It does give you Valk Lightning that correctly infused completely breaks the game though, which can be kind of fun. I haven't played or watched Snow's yet, so I don't know how that one is. Winks fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 02:39
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Pesky Splinter posted:Corrected Yeah, originally Ashe and Basche were going to be the main characters. And the game would have been better for it. I also wish FFXII was multiplayer. I'm sure I would have liked it a lot more, then. Didn't even have to be online, you could have done local co-op with a buddy on the couch Secret of Mana-style and I would have loved the game. I was just so used to playing FFXI, playing FFXII felt like playing XI, but much, much lonelier. It's my theory that co-op makes everything better. Many games that would be otherwise totally unplayable are made fun by co-op. Plus, most people don't realize it, but it's not like multiplayer Final Fantasy is a totally alien thing. FFXI actually wasn't the first multiplayer FF. FFV, VI and IX were all multiplayer, too. Most people don't realize that these games even had a 2-player feature, but they did.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:40
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Winks posted:I skipped tons of enemies as I ran endlessly through hallways and never felt like I faced a difficult fight until I reached Gran Pulse. I had to reach a bit to consistently get 5 stars when I played through before knowing about the accessory crafting stuff but maybe I am just a Bad Gamer.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:43
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Yeah, the ending to XIII-2 was really good I thought, except for the to be continued thing it went for. Most of the story was stupid, but the ending was great. I liked most of the light-hearted stuff though, and everything involving the Flan. They're totally my favourite Final Fantasy monster these days, apart from Tonberries I guess. Really, I never got too bothered about the game being quite easy. I just enjoyed trying to find the most ridiculously strong monsters possible to see just how quick I could stomp everything. Then I switched to all chocobos, all the time, because they're great, and more than strong enough to beat everything non-DLC.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:43
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, originally Ashe and Basche were going to be the main characters. And the game would have been better for it. To be fair, the game basically treats Vaan like a supporting character for most of the game. And I liked him, hideously rendered abs aside. He wasn't particularly necessary for most of the plot, but he was likable enough and the only real stupid moment was the whole memetic "ONDORE'S LIES  " scene early on.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:48
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zedprime posted:That isn't really enough info to judge tuning, because of the game breaking possible I mentioned above, the fact that you can generally max the crystarium with a fair amount of battles skipped, and feeling like facing a difficult fight is a subjective thing because every fight is going to feel easy if you just constantly run X/X/Med but it won't really be an acceptable strategy to anyone who values their time. With the exception of probably the very beginning, I never maxed the crystarium. And if you're not swapping your paradigm every 12 seconds or so, you're doing it wrong I don't know how you'd really talk difficulty with a final fantasy game though. I mean, if something's too hard you go back, level up, buy some items, do whatever, and go try it again. The larger impact of skillful play with the paradigm system is what makes me like it so much. The fights don't have to be super difficult (and won't be, because they're targeting an 'average' player) in order for it to be good gameplay.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:49
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McDragon posted:Yeah, the ending to XIII-2 was really good I thought, except for the to be continued thing it went for. Most of the story was stupid, but the ending was great. Yeah, the story was largely pretty stupid (though I thought it was endearingly so most of the time) but the ending and the stuff they did with Noel's timeline was really well done, maybe because it reminded me a lot of Nier, with how dark it was, especially when you were mog clocking the invisible people and they all fell to the ground dead, it just struck me as a very Nier thing to do.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:49
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Cityinthesea posted:Yeah, the story was largely pretty stupid (though I thought it was endearingly so most of the time) but the ending and the stuff they did with Noel's timeline was really well done, maybe because it reminded me a lot of Nier, with how dark it was, especially when you were mog clocking the invisible people and they all fell to the ground dead, it just struck me as a very Nier thing to do. The whole bit with the Dying World really does feel like Yoko Taro snuck into the Square offices one day, in a very good way. It also helps that this is the part of the game where Caius starts actually doing things and giving the game excuses to whip out all the badass versions of his leitmotif.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:54
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Spiritus Nox posted:Which one, out of curiosity? Ah... I can't remember. I think it was one of the early timezones only covered with snow? Maybe I'm misremembering but that's what I seem to recall. Azure_Horizon posted:This argument seems weird to me because this happens in FFXIII all the time. FFXIII capped your levels so while it was possible to become powerful, it was less possible to become quite as ridiculously overpowered as in FFXIII-2 because at least at some point you'd hit a wall while in FFXIII-2 you just keep going.
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Jun 11, 2012 02:55
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ImpAtom posted:Ah... I can't remember. I think it was one of the early timezones only covered with snow? Maybe I'm misremembering but that's what I seem to recall. XIII capped your levels but aside from (a few) boss battles, the game is stupendously easy, about as easy as XIII-2 is. XIII-2 just gives you the benefit of strong monsters to make it faster.
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Jun 11, 2012 03:01
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This Jacket Is Me posted:
To give a good example, this is why a lot of people remember FF7 being grimdark when it wasn't, but had elements they were pretty careful to keep a tone too. Sure, all the fantastic destruction and movie-grade scary poo poo is treated serious, but they are very careful to tone down a lot of the uncomfortably but "mundane" creepy poo poo you run into thru the game, especially Midgar itself which it isn't difficult to imagine a lot grimmer than we actually see (I think a goon LP mentions Wall Market and anything with Corneo for example, being way over the top because otherwise it might feel IMMENSELY creepy). Or the whole subplot with Barret's past. Mega64 posted:To be fair, does anyone really want to identify with a bare-chested street urchin who has brain damage from malnourishment? If it's someone merely saying "I'm older so now I kind of identify more with the older character" that's totally valid, but I think people tend to infer a kind of  sense of maturity in someone who doesn't wanna retroactively be identified as one. I try to be openminded, because nearly every character I found genuinely annoying in FF games comes off to me as *deliberately* written that way, so at least it feels like a consistent characterization. At the very least, there's a last-subplot epiphany where they become better or at least fall out of sight.ALso hopping on the 13 fan bandwagon to say the characters themselves were the most part way more interesting than the plot they were in (though lord knows why they thought I'd wanna dick around with a decaffeinated Lightning who hits way too many JRPG Designated Chick Tropes, especially after they demonstrated they can do a decent female character when they don't write with their dicks.) keet fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 04:49
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That loving Sned posted:A lot of Mother 3's impact depends on you having played Earthbound first, or at least know the whole plot. Disagree, Earthbound is boring as poo poo and I never beat it. Beat Mother 3 in three days, by comparison.
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Jun 11, 2012 07:26
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Gammatron 64 posted:Basically, Hiromino Tanaka is like videogame cancer. Is there somewhere we can go to read about all that this guy specifically did to ruin the FF MMOs as thoroughly as possible? There's a certain appreciation one can find in video game trainwrecks. 
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Jun 11, 2012 07:37
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Azure_Horizon posted:In every way besides the plot. My favorite gameplay from the series. What actually changed for the better in the gameplay? The paradigm system seems entirely the same as in FF13, and the ambush button mashing thing just makes fights easier. In general, I'd like to see some more emphasis on equipment in FF's. With the paradigm system, and the AI always using optimal elements, the player can forget entirely about the differences between water/fire/earth/etc damage types, and in FF13 I ended up with a ton of useless damage-type-specific equipment (as well as bufF/debuff specific equipment) that I would never use because everything is so streamlined. It's sort of funny that actual, gameplay-affecting equipment collecting has gone out with window in favor of non-consequential monster goodie collecting. It's actually not funny, but I couldn't think of any other way to describe it.
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Jun 11, 2012 08:25
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This Jacket Is Me posted:What actually changed for the better in the gameplay? The paradigm system seems entirely the same as in FF13, and the ambush button mashing thing just makes fights easier. Tuning to the AI improved a lot of the smaller issues in XIII, it's faster and more manageable, and monsters provide a lot more variety than the characters did in XIII. On top of larger levels with more ways to tackle them and a lot more free-form gameplay, XIII-2 was just an overall improvement in every way.
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Jun 11, 2012 09:02
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Apparently Squeenix is porting the NDS FF3 remake to the PSP. It kind of makes me just want FF3 remade with the balanced classes in the same 2D style as the FF4 PSP port, though; I prefer their sprite art over their chibi 3D looks that they popularized so much with all the NDS games. I also prefer the faster gameplay in a game that involves so much grinding like FF3 does; it's like playing a turn based strategy game with animations on. Still, I'd love to do a four job fiesta of FF3 if it gets an NA release. I can't stand playing on that small NDS screen anymore and don't really want a 3DS. Minera fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 09:54
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I would have liked FF4 DS a lot more if you could switch to 2d graphics, sort of like what The Dark Spire did. I really need to get a PSP though one of these days so I can have games like FF5 on a portable device (I have a DSI, so no GBA slot), even if that port wasn't as good.
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Jun 11, 2012 10:36
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Himuro posted:Disagree, Earthbound is boring as poo poo and I never beat it. Beat Mother 3 in three days, by comparison. Not quite, I never said that Earthbound was a more fun game, just that knowing the story will help you appreciate Mother 3 more, especially in regards to the main villain.
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Jun 11, 2012 11:58
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Minrad posted:Still, I'd love to do a four job fiesta of FF3 if it gets an NA release. I wonder if that would be easier or harder with the changes in FF3DS/PSP...
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Jun 11, 2012 12:15
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Azure_Horizon posted:XIII capped your levels but aside from (a few) boss battles, the game is stupendously easy, about as easy as XIII-2 is. XIII-2 just gives you the benefit of strong monsters to make it faster. FFXIII is not hard, but the way it was balanced encourage use of more mechanics. The Stagger Bar is nearly worthless a lot of the time in FFXIII-2, as are a lot of the other neat little gimmicks. I think the moment it lost me is when I got to the area with the Behemoth and the game is like "RUN FROM THIS" and it's something I could defeat without trying using only Commando and Ravager and a sentinel monster I'd picked up and barely used. That's sort of my feel about the whole game. "This thing is supposed to be deadly!" and it's exactly as easy as every other mook trash I tore through before.
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Jun 11, 2012 12:31
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This Jacket Is Me posted:What actually changed for the better in the gameplay? The paradigm system seems entirely the same as in FF13, and the ambush button mashing thing just makes fights easier. Paradigm shifting doesn't take loving forever and you're given a ton of options up front, so the fights are designed with more emphasis on planning and quick reaction. There's still a lot of "stagger, murder, repeat" as you approach the end but overall it's much more snappy.
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Jun 11, 2012 12:43
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In Japan, XIII got an international edition which was only released on the Xbox 360. The only changes were the character's dialogue being in English, tweaks to the player character's AI (such as commandos now target the same enemy) and a new easy difficulty. It's a shame that it wasn't as substantially improved as X and XII were, due to them moving straight on to XIII-2. A few small changes, such as being able to choose the party leader, removing the tutorials and unlocking the whole battle system from the start, offering choice in the Crystarium and re-designing the crafting system would have gone a long way to making it a decent entry in the series. Not that it would matter, since the international versions hardly ever get released over here.
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Jun 11, 2012 13:15
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Kyrosiris posted:I wonder if that would be easier or harder with the changes in FF3DS/PSP... I'd imagine easier. The original didn't give a poo poo about balance, as the first five classes you get all get direct upgrades from later classes except the Red Mage, who still becomes one of the worst jobs available by the time you reach the second crystal. Plus there's a lot of jobs that are just plain useless. Imagine getting Red Mage/Scholar/Bard/Warlock. Yeah, good luck with that. Though I'm not a fan of the DS's changes that much, they actually did rebalance all the classes so that even the earlier jobs have their use (Black/White Mages can make better use of lower-level spells than their upgraded counterparts, though why the hell you'd use those late in the game is a mystery). Bard in particular goes from a nonsensical ball of uselessness to a crazy buff machine. Of course, the difficulty is knocked up quite a bit, so that can influence things. So yeah, I don't think a FJF would work nearly as well for FF3. Maybe the DS version, but then that game manages to be even more difficult than the original. It's just too easy to get screwed over badly in either version.
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Jun 11, 2012 13:38
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That loving Sned posted:Not that it would matter, since the international versions hardly ever get released over here. The only ones I can think of is VII (in which they added stuff they didn't have time to implement in the original Japanese release), and then that got ported back to Japan with all the added stuff, and FFX for the PAL regions, where, for whatever reason, the "International" version is the default. Kingdom Hearts almost counts...they added more bosses and music tracks in the Western releases...except they re-released it again in Japan with extra cutscenes, weapons and a story-relevant boss. Ditto for most of the other games, where they add stuff for the Western release, and then they'll add even more for the Japanese re-release. The most obnoxious of which was announcing Birth By Sleep's Final Mix a week before the PAL release. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 14:36
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Mega64 posted:So yeah, I don't think a FJF would work nearly as well for FF3. Maybe the DS version, but then that game manages to be even more difficult than the original. It's just too easy to get screwed over badly in either version. I know for the original you can beat the game using pretty much any wind crystal class solo, except for maybe Red Mage, but I think even they would get some useful attack equipment later in the game and might be able to do it with elixir abuse. For the hell of it I rolled some dice and I got Monk/Scholar/Evoker/Magus. I forgot how many of the FF3 jobs were more or less just upgrades of earlier jobs, so if you wanted to make it easier on yourself you could always give yourself the later "upgrades" of earlier jobs, like Black Belt for Monk and Summoner for Evoker.
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Jun 11, 2012 16:39
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