|
GreyjoyBastard posted:And since a no-fly zone in Syria is an escalation nobody's terribly willing to make, the FSA pretty much needs to pick up some stylin' AA weaponry from defectors. Or foreign suppliers, I guess, but the whole thing with Afghan Stingers and requiring that used tubes be returned in exchange for a refill was precisely so that as few as possible extremely sophisticated aircraft-murdering missiles would find their way into the hands of people who might be inclined to use them for purposes that aren't killing Hinds. This may be too much of a derail, but when it comes to threats in the big wide world, the whole "Rogue Stinger" situation really got overplayed. The batteries and seeker system on a Stinger ain't the most durable things around, they get hosed up pretty easily rendering the whole launch system pretty useless. If you get a fresh Stinger system they're badass as hell, but after ten years+ of knocking around they're far less sexy. At that point you might as well grab an SA-7 and go to town on some poo poo (see the Mombasa attacks). Anyway, to prevent this getting all military-hardware porny... According to Al Jazeera it looks like Turkey is continuing to be concerned about the fallout from this entire situation. They've apparently accepted 1400 refugees in the past two days and the numbers continue to grow.
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 09:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 23:39 |
|
|
Here's an interesting video, there's been reports of incendiary ammo being used in Syria, and this video shows a massive wall of flame after a building is hit, not sure if they store fuel on top of buildings in Syria though, so it could be that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxA_U07wskQ
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 10:03
|
|
|
Zeno-25 posted:BTW, not only are those Hinds attack gunships, but they're also troop transports as well. When one of those was taken down in Afghanistan back in the day, you didn't just kill the pilot and co-pilot, you also killed the likely ~10 Soviet soldiers on board too. That's not usually the case, pilots quickly learned that having a platoon of soldiers in the back made flying a bitch if they were also fully loaded. Most often they went out without troops after the first two years. They switched to the US route of having troop helicopters (MI-8s) be escorted by attack helicopters (Hinds).
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 12:30
|
|
|
That drat Satyr posted:Does that give grounds for them to place sanctions against Russia? If it does it gives grounds for every country to place sanctions against the US because they are by far and large the biggest dealer of arms to oppressive regimes, now or ever. Corny posted:and are instead manipulated by the evil Zionist-USA World Spanning Empire.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 13:38
|
|
|
Iv'e just put together a quick post from activists in Homs detailing rebel activity there recently, with a few interesting videos and claims.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jun 13, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 13:41
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:The Independent has a piece about Qatar and Saudi Arabia supplying arms to the opposition in Syria that's worth a look. Given reports like these, why are so many posters in this thread so incredulous to the idea that the opposition, particularly if it does wrest power from the Assad regime, may put foreign interests ahead of Syrian interests? It's just confusing to me, "neutral" articles like this one that portray a plucky resistance that just needs a little help from their friends get sage nods, but posters or other commentators who are more critical of the role of the Gulf states (who, of course, are generally US vassals) in the conflict and posit they may have less than benevolent motives are largely dismissed as conspiracy theory, Syrian propaganda, etc etc. I realize this is a complex situation and the line I'm taking here is not the "anti-imperialist crusader Bashar Al-Assad making brave and noble stand against US-Zionist-Saudi-Qatari funded Islamist terrorists" strawman that everyone here loves knocking down and ridiculing, but the way concerns about the nature of the opposition seem to be dismissed out of hand seems to be based largely on ideological bias rather than an honest evaluation of the credibility of such concerns.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 15:24
|
|
|
Sacrilicious posted:Given reports like these, why are so many posters in this thread so incredulous to the idea that the opposition, particularly if it does wrest power from the Assad regime, may put foreign interests ahead of Syrian interests? It's just confusing to me, "neutral" articles like this one that portray a plucky resistance that just needs a little help from their friends get sage nods, but posters or other commentators who are more critical of the role of the Gulf states (who, of course, are generally US vassals) in the conflict and posit they may have less than benevolent motives are largely dismissed as conspiracy theory, Syrian propaganda, etc etc. You'll have to be more specific as to what "foreign" versus "Syrian" interests are. Considering that the rebel's biggest backers are Sunni monarchies, and that Syria is a majority Sunni state ruled by a religious minority, there may not be that much daylight between "foreign" interests and the interests held by Syria's demographic majority. It's clear that Saudi Arabia and Qatar's machinations are part of a proxy war against Iran, anyhow. Saudi Arabia and Qatar fancy themselves as rising regional powers, as does Iran. Iran supports the Alawite regime in Syria, KSA/Qatar support Sunni governments. All of these countries are using Syria as a battlefield against each other.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 15:53
|
|
|
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are hardly vassal states of the US. KSA has dozens of wealthy royals and merchants who essentially run their own foreign policies with their checkbooks. Al Saud and Al Thani fund conservative Islamist groups that are openly antagonistic to the American-Israeli position in the Middle East. The Gulf States and Iran are certainly major sources of regression in the Muslim world and anything they do should be viewed with that in mind. Since the revolutionaries decided to engage in violence (possibly a poor decision) the rebels are massively overpowered, support has to come from somewhere, and these issues of foreign interest were inevitable in any revolutionary situation. The Syrian revolutionary fighters are mostly conservative Sunnis who are violently opposed to Hezbollah-Iranian-Syrian power. I don't see KSA funding the Syrian revolutionaries as any less absurd as the Comte de Rochambeau laying siege to Yorktown; sometimes interests align in such ways. az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jun 13, 2012 |
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 16:16
|
|
|
That drat Satyr posted:Clinton noted as much in her comments Tuesday, saying, “We have confronted the Russians about stopping their continued arms shipments to Syria. They have, from time to time, said that we shouldn’t worry – everything they are shipping is unrelated to [Assad’s] actions internally,” she added. “That’s patently untrue.” So basically Russia are sending weapons on a Assad promise not to use them on his own population? Sure.  And I can't be the only one who was thinking they'd just killed everyone left in the city when Al Haffe was declared 'cleansed' right? I suppose it technically counts as calm when everyone has either fled for their lives or is currently at room temperature.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 17:45
|
|
|
This is an interesting video for two reasons, first to shows a tank captured by the FSA, and second the camera in killed during the filming of the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2gah5iQqLE
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 22:51
|
|
|
 
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 23:09
|
|
|
He DOES cut a dashing pose on the horse (where he can hide his goongut)
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 23:21
|
|
|
EBT posted:He DOES cut a dashing pose on the horse (where he can hide his goongut) Those are two different guys. I'd definitely want the dude with a huge gently caress-off beard in my own FSA cell. Not only does his beard look like it can stop bullets, but he can duel-wield a PKM and an RPG with aplomb. This is basically the dream of every 12 year old MW3 player.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2012 23:35
|
|
|
Germany's FAZ is reporting that the Houla massacre was committed by rebels, not the regime. http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/06/prime-german-paper-syrian-rebels-committed-houla-massacre.html quote:Syrian opposition members who are from that region were during the last days able to reconstruct the most likely sequence of events based on accounts from authentic witnesses. Their result contradicts the pretenses from the rebels who had accused regime allied Shabiha they alleged were acting under the protection of the Syrian army. As opposition members who reject the use of lethal force were recently killed or at least threatened, the opposition members [talking to me] asked that their names be withheld. i know it's not a great source but it's got a translation of the original German article.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 02:41
|
|
|
Roger Nguyen posted:i know it's not a great source but it's got a translation of the original German article. Brown Moses addressed this either on this page or the preceding one. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Moon of Alabama a repository of Phelan-type praise for Qadhafi?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 03:56
|
|
|
Somewhat more coherent, but yes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 03:57
|
|
|
Party Plane Jones posted:That's not usually the case, pilots quickly learned that having a platoon of soldiers in the back made flying a bitch if they were also fully loaded. Most often they went out without troops after the first two years. They switched to the US route of having troop helicopters (MI-8s) be escorted by attack helicopters (Hinds). I remember reading that one tactic was that they would cart a huge rear end load of ammo in the troop compartment, and right before they would fly into a hostile area, they would dump the ammo on some uninhabited/deserted location. They would attack, and use up all their ammo and then fly a short hop back to their cache, reload and then jump back into the fight. I also recall that the Hind was heavily armored and small arms (AK-47) wouldn't bring it down unless you scored a really lucky hit. Early on in the Afghan war, it was known that you wouldn't go at a Hind with anything less than legitimate high caliber AA guns.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 04:09
|
|
|
suboptimal posted:Brown Moses addressed this either on this page or the preceding one. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Moon of Alabama a repository of Phelan-type praise for Qadhafi? There was a link to a national review piece on the previous page but it was broken, i didn't see it addressed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 04:14
|
|
|
Vladimir Putin posted:I also recall that the Hind was heavily armored and small arms (AK-47) wouldn't bring it down unless you scored a really lucky hit. Early on in the Afghan war, it was known that you wouldn't go at a Hind with anything less than legitimate high caliber AA guns. After they stopped carrying troops, they dearmored the troop compartment to be able to carry more munitions apparently.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 04:49
|
|
|
Vladimir Putin posted:I remember reading that one tactic was that they would cart a huge rear end load of ammo in the troop compartment, and right before they would fly into a hostile area, they would dump the ammo on some uninhabited/deserted location. They would attack, and use up all their ammo and then fly a short hop back to their cache, reload and then jump back into the fight. Taliban are told not to touch them except in very selective circumstances. There's just no time to get away. Heli's are devastating in reaction to contact, and they are the last thing the FSA wants to see. If Russia is in fact supplying Assad with them, there's no denying that they are game changing weapons, and that Russia is putting its influence on the war to keep Assad in power. Pretty hosed from a humanitarian perspective. Guess that's Russia for you though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 07:35
|
|
|
Roger Nguyen posted:Germany's FAZ is reporting that the Houla massacre was committed by rebels, not the regime. National Review had an article on the FAZ accusations, and then had the article countering the claims, which for some reason had it's URL change breaking my previous link. There was also this response to the article by activists in the area quote:We write this letter in the name of the residents of the four cities of Houla (Taldo, Kafarlaha, Taldahab, al Tiba al Gharbiya), in response to a disgusting slur published in the weekend in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung German newspaper, which shamefully presented lies as facts in the report written by reporter Rainer Hermann and published on June 7, 2012. The report cast the 108 people who died here at the hands of the regime as conspirators instead of victims. In almost four weeks since this dreadful act of savagery was brought to our village, we have been contacted by numerous reporters from many countries, all of whom have been in search of the truth. None of us recall being contacted by a German or non-German reporter that works for the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. We most certainly have not been contacted by Rainer Hermann or any representative of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. It's also interesting that Mother Agnès-Mariam de la-Croix has seen fit to expose the FSA's supposed persecution of Christians in Syria, but has chosen to remain silent about the shelling of churches in Syria by Assad's forces.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 08:55
|
|
|
Sacrilicious posted:Given reports like these, why are so many posters in this thread so incredulous to the idea that the opposition, particularly if it does wrest power from the Assad regime, may put foreign interests ahead of Syrian interests? It's just confusing to me, "neutral" articles like this one that portray a plucky resistance that just needs a little help from their friends get sage nods, but posters or other commentators who are more critical of the role of the Gulf states (who, of course, are generally US vassals) in the conflict and posit they may have less than benevolent motives are largely dismissed as conspiracy theory, Syrian propaganda, etc etc. Yeah, like suboptimal said, you gotta be more specific with what you mean when you say that the rebels will "put foreign interests ahead of Syrian interests". Yes, parts of the Syrian opposition is being armed by third parties. Yes, numerous other players - the Gulf States, Iran, Russia, the US - are trying to influence the outcome and make sure "their" people end up on top. And yes, a good chunk of the rebels are probably right bastards that I wouldn't have voted for in a democratic election (had I been a Syrian, and had Syria had democratic elections). Having concerns about the nature of the Syrian opposition is a healthy stance to take. If we want to be honest we shouldn't accept a claim just because it happens to fit our world view. But going from "Outside forces are arming Syrian revolutionaries" to "Post-revolution Syria will be beholden to outside forces" is a non sequitur. If this was true the US would, for example, have been the ultimate ruler of Taliban-led Afghanistan - and we all know that simply wasn't so. Likewise, in current day Afghanistan, Karzai - the puppet put in place by the US - isn't exactly playing ball with the west (though he is a corrupt, worthless leader, but that's a separate issue entirely). Yes, a certain gratitude from the new rulers might be expected by these outside forces, but it's quite unlikely that it would extend to more than preferential treatment when it comes to stuff like business contracts and arms deals. This is of course one among many reasons why Russia wants to keep Assad, while the west wants to replace him. Backing the winning side will undoubtedly increase your influence in post-civil war Syria. But I fail to see how this equals that the new rulers will put foreign interests ahead of Syrian interests. What does that even mean? The opposition consists of numerous factions, each with their own vision of the future Syria. I find it unlikely that gratitude towards outside forces will compromise those visions in any major way. If we are worried of undue outside influence, I think we should be watching out for some group of expats being held up as a ready-made "new government" (like the regime America air-dropped into Baghdad), put in place without any local support. As of now, no such group exists in any serious way. Simply arming local rebels is not the same as forcing your will on the Syrian people, especially not if post-Assad Syria becomes a functioning democracy. Mr. Sunshine fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 09:05
|
|
|
I'm seeing reports that Egyptian State TV is saying the entire election has been annulled after a Supreme court decision, locals have any details on that?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 13:45
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:I'm seeing reports that Egyptian State TV is saying the entire election has been annulled after a Supreme court decision, locals have any details on that? nope it's not that at all it's worse 1- Shafiq is scott free and will not be out of the runoff 2- An entire third of the parliament will be dissolved, paving the way for regime loyalists to come back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 14:09
|
|
|
Now I'm hearing stuff along the lines of "Scaf retakes full legislative authority from dissolved parliament and will form constituent assembly Friday". If Shafiq "wins" the election that would mean Egypt has a full on military Junta running things?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 15:08
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:nope it's not that at all it's worse It's not entirely clear if it is a third or the entire parliament might be dissolved according to the verdict. According to Arabiya it's the entire parliament- مصادر في المحكمة الدستورية للعربية: القرار يعني حل البرلمان بالكامل SCAF will be assigning the Constituent Assembly to be writing the constitution. Really one of the worst-case scenarios. SCAF is sure to say that they weren't the people who issued the order though المجلس العسكري: لم نصدر قرارا بحل البرلمان وملتزمون بقرار المحكمة az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 15:08
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Now I'm hearing stuff along the lines of "Scaf retakes full legislative authority from dissolved parliament and will form constituent assembly Friday". If Shafiq "wins" the election that would mean Egypt has a full on military Junta running things? Yes. In fact, now the MB candidate's status is at risk, because the basis for his nomination was "part of a party that has at least 1 member in parliament". Now, since parliament is dissolved, they might as well revoke his nomination. Don't think they will do this because if they do, I think Sabahy would be his opponent since had had 3rd highest votes. And Sabahay is much more popular than the Muslim Brotherhood. Ham fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 15:29
|
|
|
I guess SCAF were really committed to the Turkish model after all, just the bit where the overthrow any democratically elected Islamist government that threatens to take root. People must be furious.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 15:40
|
|
|
Shafiq is talking live, talking about how the ruling today proved that "no authority can monopolize power" "The upcoming elections will enjoy the full protection of the army and security forces" 
az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 15:45
|
|
|
This is even more sinister when you take it in conjunction with the Supreme Court's ruling that military police and military intelligence officers have the authority to arrest civilians for non-military crimes. What a nightmare. Maybe we should change the thread title back to a Felool related pun.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 15:49
|
|
|
suboptimal posted:This is even more sinister when you take it in conjunction with the Supreme Court's ruling that military police and military intelligence officers have the authority to arrest civilians for non-military crimes. Middle East Wars: A merciful revolution is a dead revolution.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 15:56
|
|
|
az jan jananam posted:It's not entirely clear if it is a third or the entire parliament might be dissolved according to the verdict. According to Arabiya it's the entire parliament- ahahahaha gently caress like, i have to admit, by this point i had assumed that egypt would go for one of the worse case scenarios instead of Literally The Very Worst Thing That Could Possibly Happen Short Of A Civil War. i'm guessing there's no way the egyptian people will take this sitting, but there's also no way the army will refrain from attacking protesters this time
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 16:02
|
|
|
What are the chances of this escalating to civil war? This seems a fairly naked proclamation by the powers that be that they are seeking a return to the pre-revolution status-quo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 18:37
|
|
|
Is there concrete proof that Al-Q is involved with the FSA now?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 18:37
|
|
|
Radbot posted:Is there concrete proof that Al-Q is involved with the FSA now? Proof? Is there any evidence or any suggestion of this? There has been some blame put on Al Qaeda for car bombings in Syria, but to suggest they are in coordination with the FSA is a stretch. Even the FSA aren't 'united' in any real sense.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 18:44
|
|
|
I don't think there's any solid proof that the FSA is coordinating with Al-Q, but, I would be hard pressed to believe that there weren't Iraq war veterans moving back over the border to help stir the pot in Syria.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 18:48
|
|
|
TheBalor posted:What are the chances of this escalating to civil war? This seems a fairly naked proclamation by the powers that be that they are seeking a return to the pre-revolution status-quo. Unlikely. One of the reasons why the low-level insurgency waged by Egyptian Islamist militants during the 1980s-mid 1990s fizzled was because there weren't rural areas sufficiently close to major targets for fighters to reconstitute themselves. They had to hide in urban neighborhoods, which made them easier targets for the country's enormous security forces. If you don't count the Sinai (which already has its own mini-insurgency kind of going), then Egypt is a pretty poor place to stage a violent insurrection.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 18:55
|
|
|
Concerning Egypt, is it too far off to see all this as a repercussion to the going-on in Syria? E.g. if Assad can try to resist militarily without international interference, why shouldn't we?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 19:27
|
|
|
Just a quick question: has anything come down the newspipes from Saudi Arabia about that whole turning the Arab League into a EU-style confederation?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 19:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 23:39 |
|
|
So this is a massive bid for restoration of the Mubarak era (sans Mubarak himself)? If Morsy wins the election but SCAF seizes control of everything else and puppets the legislature, does Morsy cooperate with SCAF or does SCAF just off him and claim emergency powers? EDIT: The book on this had better be titled The Eighteenth Brumaire of Mohamed Hussein Tantawi. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 14, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2012 19:58
|
|
