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kimbo305 posted:Some reviewers have said the FR-S suspension is set up to be livelier for that boy drifter feel. Who was it that got a slower lap time out of the FR-S compared to the BRZ because it was a bit squirrelier to drive? Pobst at Motor Trend. It was like a second off. On that note, it'll also be good to see the times between the 86 and the BRZ, in markets where Toyota is selling the car.
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Jun 12, 2012 07:25
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This video is the wrong way around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7vN5eSAHcw
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Jun 12, 2012 13:02
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Finally got a test drive in it today. When I first got in the car I was once again taken aback by some of the interior quality. It is...not the best, but it is serviceable. I kind of felt like a let down from what all the hype has been about. But, once I put it in first gear and took off none of the interior bits mattered anymore. Hell, they could have filled the interior with live angry bees and it still wouldn't have mattered. This thing drives so loving great it is just unbelievable. The drive was miles ahead of what my mustang can put together, and I really love the poo poo out of my mustang so that's saying something. It's so good that I am going to probably trade the mustang in even though I just bought it. (yes yes, terrible financial decision). The steering and handling really are this car's bread and butter. I purposefully ran over some bumps to see how it would do and the FR-S handled them better than the mustang. There was no dip in the front when you came to a stop and the brakes were solid (I even did a full slamming stop from about 40 to 0 and it held well) Ok, negative points go to the shifter. The throws are long compared to the mustang. It almost feels like an eternity to get from 4th to 5th gear, and sometimes if you don't handle it right the 5th to 4th transition can get stuck in between the gates. I don't know if this was just an issue with that particular car or not but a shorter throw shifter is def. a mod you will want to invest in. The transmission itself was fantastic, smooth engagement points and excellent clutch feel. And the revs dropped quickly when you took your foot off the gas, there was no leisurely wait to get the revs back down to a reasonable speed when you accidentally over-rev. Another negative was the seats. They were super supportive but they can start to wear on you if you're a bit wide like me. I am assuming that they will loosen up after a bit and I'd expect them to cradle you like a baby after that. Great car, buy one if you can.
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Jun 12, 2012 23:34
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I drove the FR-S today (of note to Calgary AI'ers - it was the early demo car that got wrecked a few weeks back), and I have to admit that while it is a decent car, I was left pretty underwelmed by certain aspects of it. I found the seats and the driving position to be excellent; the seats were comfortable and very supportive, and everything fell to hand as it should have; someone clearly did their homework on the ergonomics of the car. The shift action and clutch were great, which was a huge surprise to me, as neither Toyota nor Subaru have excelled in this area before. My only issue with the transmission was the 4-5 shift; for whatever reason, the feedback just completely disappears here and while I never missed that shift, it never really gave me much confidence either. As for the handling and the steering, they're pretty good, but with a few caveats. The steering weight was good, but I found that the on-center feel was really lacking, and the feedback was, for lack of a better way to put it, largely non-existent. My E46 has far better feedback; hell, even the F30 328i I drove last week was better in that department. Apart from that, I found the road manners and the handling of the car to be really quite nice otherwise. Now for my biggest criticism; the engine. It's awful. It doesn't want to rev all that happily, it doesn't make a nice noise and for an engine layout that should achieve nearly perfect balance, it was unbelievably coarse. Granted, I drive a car with about the most refined engine ever made, but the FR-S was so rough I honestly thought it had a set of bad engine mounts. The power delivery was alright, I guess, but the engine really does feel overwhelmed by the chassis. More power - much more power - is needed here, as well as a dose of refinement. I understand that we're not looking to BMW levels of refinement, but could we at least get Honda levels of refinement?
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Jun 13, 2012 01:50
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MrChips posted:Now for my biggest criticism; the engine. It's awful. It doesn't want to rev all that happily somehow I don't think you actually drove a FR-S
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Jun 13, 2012 03:13
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I didn't realize they still had test drive cars open. I guess they're not going to be selling that one to people after its little incident - wonder if I can get a few minutes with it. South Pointe?
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Jun 13, 2012 03:53
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emoltra posted:somehow I don't think you actually drove a FR-S Well I hate to offend your tender sensibilities, but I did, and I stand by my opinion of how disappointing the engine is. Sure it revs out to 7400 rpm, but winding the motor from about 3500 rpm to redline feels like your flogging it to within an inch of its life. A BMW S54 revs happily, a Honda K20Z revs happily, this engine doesn't even hold a candle to either of these for responsiveness or high-rpm manners. Seat Safety Switch posted:I didn't realize they still had test drive cars open. I guess they're not going to be selling that one to people after its little incident - wonder if I can get a few minutes with it. Yep, I was in the area, thought what the hell and went over to have a go. Walked right in and away we went.
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Jun 13, 2012 03:58
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MrChips posted:Well I hate to offend your tender sensibilities, but I did, and I stand by my opinion of how disappointing the engine is. Sure it revs out to 7400 rpm, but winding the motor from about 3500 rpm to redline feels like your flogging it to within an inch of its life. A BMW S54 revs happily, a Honda K20Z revs happily, this engine doesn't even hold a candle to either of these for responsiveness or high-rpm manners. Because you are revving it to within an inch of it's life, and boxers aren't exactly known for their smooth exhaust note. I didn't find an issue with it, but I can see where some people might want more refinement from their engine. Rabble fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jun 13, 2012 |
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Jun 13, 2012 04:41
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Will there still be some left to buy in a month or so? My dad can't get the cash together until mid July and his credit is lovely enough that he doesn't want to get a loan.
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Jun 13, 2012 05:22
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MrChips posted:Now for my biggest criticism; the engine. It's awful. It doesn't want to rev all that happily, it doesn't make a nice noise and for an engine layout that should achieve nearly perfect balance, it was unbelievably coarse. That's disappointing to hear, I was really hoping this engine was going to remind me of the H22 in the Prelude, which pulled so smooth and powerfully to the red-line that you never really wanted to shift. But after seeing that really strange torque curve this engine has, I'm not surprised. I am surprised to hear you say the engine is coarse. My old EJ25 idled so smoothly at 500 RPMs that I would occasionally try to start the car again if I came back to the car after leaving it running.
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Jun 13, 2012 05:22
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Sinestro posted:Will there still be some left to buy in a month or so? My dad can't get the cash together until mid July and his credit is lovely enough that he doesn't want to get a loan. There will be. They're currently coming in on several shipments and getting sold as they come (but most are preordered). People make it sound like there's a certain number until November and if you haven't ordered one you're hosed, but that's just not the case. Might be harder to find once word spreads more about them though. It also depends on your location. Dealerships get them based on how many WRXs they sell, so the northeast has a shitton while the southeast has much fewer.
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Jun 13, 2012 17:17
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The Big Jesus posted:There will be. They're currently coming in on several shipments and getting sold as they come (but most are preordered). People make it sound like there's a certain number until November and if you haven't ordered one you're hosed, but that's just not the case. Might be harder to find once word spreads more about them though. It also depends on your location. Dealerships get them based on how many WRXs they sell, so the northeast has a shitton while the southeast has much fewer. If you want a BRZ you're going to have to stalk the dealerships, find out when cars are supposed to be coming in and hopefully jump on a car that someone backs out from and hope you don't get slapped with an asinine markup. Otherwise all of the preorders have been filled to the best of my knowledge. It simply isn't the case that you'll find one sitting on the lot, if you do the dealer probably wants $35,000 for it or something. FR-S's will be easier to come by. Again just blow up dealers' phones and you should be able to find one. Scion dealers are also charging pretty awful markups despite "pure price" (it basically just means they have to advertise that they're selling the car for $rape and they have to stand by the price for 30 days)
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Jun 13, 2012 17:37
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My local Subaru has a Premium and Limited BRZ both unspoken for, both auto.
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Jun 13, 2012 17:44
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Rabble posted:This thing drives so loving great it is just unbelievable. The drive was miles ahead of what my mustang can put together, and I really love the poo poo out of my mustang so that's saying something. It's so good that I am going to probably trade the mustang in even though I just bought it. (yes yes, terrible financial decision). If you love the Mustang why not stick with it a little longer and see if they announce a turbo version of this thing. You'll feel silly if you trade a practically new car for another new car and end up being jealous of the version that comes out less than a year later.
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Jun 13, 2012 17:58
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davebo posted:If you love the Mustang why not stick with it a little longer and see if they announce a turbo version of this thing. You'll feel silly if you trade a practically new car for another new car and end up being jealous of the version that comes out less than a year later. Is there any rumors at all on this? Every official word I've heard categorically denies a turbo?
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Jun 14, 2012 14:49
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Ecstatic posted:Is there any rumors at all on this? Every official word I've heard categorically denies a turbo? Subaru has already said that the BRZ STI for next year will not be turbocharged or AWD. They haven't said it won't be supercharged, though...
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Jun 14, 2012 14:52
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davebo posted:If you love the Mustang why not stick with it a little longer and see if they announce a turbo version of this thing. You'll feel silly if you trade a practically new car for another new car and end up being jealous of the version that comes out less than a year later. That's what I ended up doing. They lowballed me on the trade in and didn't want to negotiate on it so I walked. I'll try again in a few years once the hype has died down. The biggest difference is in the steering. While the mustang wants so desperately to go in a straight line, the FRS will happily hold any turn for as long as you want. Of course, I can't speak for a mustang with the performance package (or an eibach pro-kit, which I absolutely want) so this could be a moot point. The FRS has about 1000 pounds on the mustang and I'm sure that also helps its handling comparison. --- I'm a little disappointed that I couldn't get the FRS but I know I'd miss all the interior bits that the mustang has over the FRS. I feel like in a couple of years I'll be able to make a deal on a BRZ (or FRS if they upgrade) with comprable interior quality for cheap. It's only a matter of time before these are sitting on dealer lots.
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Jun 14, 2012 15:45
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Just got back from a BRZ testdrive. Dealership (Flemington Subaru) had two limiteds with the 6 speed, Black one is bought, blue one is being ridden like the town bike but is up for grabs. Lots of fun to drive and I loved the interior and styling - time to go have a look at the FR-S. RE: the engine, I currently drive an 05 NA legacy with a MT so it was plenty rev happy for my needs
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Jun 14, 2012 20:38
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Sigma X posted:Subaru has already said that the BRZ STI for next year will not be turbocharged or AWD. They haven't said it won't be supercharged, though... No they've ruled out supercharging it too.
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Jun 15, 2012 00:01
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My understanding is that they'll further tweak the existing engine to squeeze out some more horsepower out of it.
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Jun 15, 2012 00:03
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If they ever do put out a FI version, it's going to be some years out. I'd say 4-5, for a mid-life refresh at least.
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Jun 15, 2012 00:06
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Yeah, I think this car will still out as a low cost RWD sport coupe and eventually Toyota will bring it back as a revived Supra.
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Jun 15, 2012 00:08
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DerDestroyer posted:Yeah, I think this car will still out as a low cost RWD sport coupe and eventually Toyota will bring it back as a revived Supra. This will never happen
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Jun 15, 2012 00:12
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Bovril Delight posted:This will never happen What about reviving the Supra then? I really miss the MK.III
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Jun 15, 2012 00:28
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Bovril Delight posted:This will never happen
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Jun 15, 2012 01:25
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Every year there's 1000 articles about how Toyota is totally really for sure bringing the Supra back. Like no lie bro. And it's never happening.
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Jun 15, 2012 02:28
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Rhyno posted:Every year there's 1000 articles about how Toyota is totally really for sure bringing the Supra back. Like no lie bro. I love how they registered the Supra trademark not too long ago just to tease the auto community. It is a wonderful way to bring good attention back to the Toyota name on-the-cheap. "Breaking news about Toyota's Dick Burglar posted:If they ever do put out a FI version, it's going to be some years out. I'd say 4-5, for a mid-life refresh at least. This is my thinking too. Subaru is building a new plant in the U.S., it would make sense for them to hold off on expanding the BRZ/FR-S lineup until it is complete. Moving the production of lower margin vehicles to the U.S. would leave them in a position to produce a high-margin replacement domestically. They would be stupid not to produce a turbo version eventually, considering they sold a loving year supply of these things at launch. oRenj9 fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 03:02
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oRenj9 posted:They would be stupid not to produce a turbo version eventually, considering they sold a loving year supply of these things at launch. But they sold a year supply of them without a turbo engine. Why would they bother with a total re-engineering of the entire car and/or engine? If Toyota finally does release a Supra, it will continue the evolution of the brand where it left off with the Mark IV. In other words, it will be overpriced, over-engineered, and overweight, probably shitted up with some bullshit hybrid stuff and a fat, nasty V6 adapted from a transverse design. Also, it will probably be pretty ugly which, combined with the high cost, will make sales pretty bad.
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Jun 15, 2012 03:49
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Same thing if they ever revived the MR2. It would be some fat as gently caress hybrid that completely ruins the image of the original.
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Jun 15, 2012 03:57
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Bovril Delight posted:Same thing if they ever revived the MR2. It would be some fat as gently caress  
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Jun 15, 2012 04:30
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Bovril Delight posted:Same thing if they ever revived the MR2. It would be some fat as gently caress hybrid that completely ruins the image of the original. Well seeing as gazoo racing made a concept mr2, which was based on the ZZW30 chassis and had a v6 hybrid powertrain youd be right. What they should do is keep it nice and lightweight with a simmilar powertrain to the ft86. Keeping it inline with the ae86/aw11 and then i'd have no loving clue which car to buy. Oh man now i'm dreaming of a low cog mid engined boxer mr2 with double wishbone suspension......
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Jun 15, 2012 04:35
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The FJ Cruiser isn't that bad. The only problem is that it was quite heavy in comparison (safety standards will do that), and because it was so expensive (but not out of line with other SUVs) no one really wanted to take it into the bush where it might get beat up.
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Jun 15, 2012 15:59
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Cream_Filling posted:But they sold a year supply of them without a turbo engine. Why would they bother with a total re-engineering of the entire car and/or engine? The hype is going to die down after a couple of years. Plus I see there being new competition down the road. The new MX-5 will be coming out, and Im sure Chevy will have put out that ugly 130R thing at some point. The Subaru and Toyota are going to need to evolve at some point.
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Jun 15, 2012 16:31
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Forgive me for only reading the last 20 pages or so, will the BRZ lend itself as readily to WRX/Sti swaps as previous Subarus?
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Jun 15, 2012 16:41
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Owsla posted:Forgive me for only reading the last 20 pages or so, will the BRZ lend itself as readily to WRX/Sti swaps as previous Subarus? According to the folks at Subaru, the engine bay is pretty much crammed full as it is hence no future turbo option for the STI build of the BRZ. Take that as you want; but short of some serious chopping and cutting I'm not really seeing it happen. However I'm no Subaru expert so I can't honestly say it would be impossible to swap anything out motor-wise.
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Jun 15, 2012 16:51
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Owsla posted:Forgive me for only reading the last 20 pages or so, will the BRZ lend itself as readily to WRX/Sti swaps as previous Subarus? It's nearly impossible, so, no.
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Jun 15, 2012 16:51
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Devyl posted:According to the folks at Subaru, the engine bay is pretty much crammed full as it is hence no future turbo option for the STI build of the BRZ. Take that as you want; but short of some serious chopping and cutting I'm not really seeing it happen. However I'm no Subaru expert so I can't honestly say it would be impossible to swap anything out motor-wise. Which was a load of bullshit because aftermarket groups are already developing turbos. Edit: vvvvv of course, what do you expect them to say? "Oh yeah, turbo version next year but don't let that stop you from buying all these first gen models." I've heard reports that Subaru is already developing a factory turbo for the new engine and replacing toyota's D4S system with a more traditional method. Rabble fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 15, 2012 |
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Jun 15, 2012 17:17
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Thanks, appreciate it. I'm sure someone will figure out a way to jam some FI in there eventually. It would have been nice to just plug in the Sti powerplant but it's not a deal breaker. edit: ^ ahh, yup
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Jun 15, 2012 17:22
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There is an absolute shitload of room in the engine compartment once you remove the air filter box. Room definitely isn't a problem as far as a turbo / supercharger is concerned, the compression ratio is what will be the limiting factor. Someone has already swapped in a V8 IS-F engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUPCwolLrsY
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Jun 15, 2012 18:02
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Frederic Aasbo also has a 2J laid up in one.
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Jun 15, 2012 18:13
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