|
I'm going to be honest, the event didn't effect me that much when I was a kid. Considering how much people gush about this scene, that's probably uncommon, but I can't feel like it's that rare. Still, Elentor presented her death superbly! And this releases a very important chain on the thread. A lot of the first disk is leading up to this point, and a lot of the game, in terms of its story, revolves around this event happening. Not being able to bring it up at all made it very difficult to actually talk about the game. So I'm very glad we got to this point. EDIT: Also, an interesting observation on Sephiroth as a villain at this point. I've already brought up a few times how Sephiroth breaks the fundamental physics of the game world and shows abilities we've never seen before prior to this point. Here is where Sephiroth violates our sense of continuity even further. Killing main characters isn't a thing writers are encouraged to do, because it can lead to a lot of backlash among certain types of fans. The same could be said double for playable characters in video games. You're meant to have access to what the player perceives to be their complete party for the entirety of the game. This makes sense, as removing a character is the same as removing an option that the player had before, and people don't like that. For this reason, playable characters exist in this unkillable range (except possibly at the very end of the story), even more than main characters do. Sephiroth shits on that. He breaks what feels like an ironclad rule, that you're going to have access to all of your party most of the time, but especially for endgame. It's a violation of expectations on another level, because I'm sure there are some people who don't even feel like it's a rule. It's so ingrained and so obvious that your playable characters are safe. Just like it's ingrained and obvious that people can't walk through walls, fly, and replicate. The thing is, we expect the latter because this is a fantasy game. Fantasy characters doing fantastical things is normal and expected. Now, when the character starts breaking the story writing "rules" of games, he's violating something we never expected him to. Twiddy fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jun 28, 2012 |
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 05:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 01:35 |
|
|
Wow, your first 2 RPGs were Phantasy Star 2 and FF7??? Of all the unlucky coincidences...was your third RPG Final Fantasy Tactics by chance?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 05:54
|
|
|
Do I have to be the jerk who points out Sephiroth's random gloved and not gloved hands in the CG? And the way some of the positioning seemed off? And the fact that Aeris' body somehow sinks into deep water? I guess I'm saying the amazing-at-the-time CG was actually pretty sloppy. Anyway, it's a really good scene. The Forgotten City is a fascinating setting, and all of the music is fantastic. Oh, and in case the screenshots didn't make it clear: Sephiroth chucked another piece of Jenova at Cloud and co., much like he did on the cargo ship earlier. That's where the boss came from. One last note: Elentor, I am still convinced you're over-levelled. I massively overtrained my party to level 50 or so with the Junon alarm by this point in an old save and your HP seems close to that. Maybe I'm crazy?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 05:58
|
|
|
Semoch posted:I... have a confession. When I picked up FF7, the only other RPG I'd played was Phantasy Star II. In which your plucky orphan sidechick, Nei, is permanently killed off, halfway through the game. This, but with IV. Alys' death is amazingly well handled for a genesis RPG, and I was a huge Phantasy Star fan back in the day, so I didn't really see what the big deal was. I even played FF7, and all I could think of was how much better it was done in IV where you at least tried to save her. And then I went back to it for this LP, and I realized just how well done it really was on its own. It truly is a powerful scene, and only the fact that I already knew (internet!  ) and my own hipsterism dulled the edge of it the first time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 05:58
|
|
|
Twiddy posted:I'm going to be honest, the event didn't effect me that much when I was a kid. Considering how much people gush about this scene, that's probably uncommon, but I can't feel like it's that rare.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 05:58
|
|
|
As much as the music makes this scene (And it really does. I love you Elentor, but your video really misses a lot by not having the music track), the most amazing think to me has always been how much emotion they manage to convey in the crappy lego models right after it. Sephiroth standing there, arms open and gloating, clearly basking in glory after eliminating the only perceivable threat to his plans. Aeris's body limply falling into Cloud's arms, as he rushes to catch her. The way he shakes her a few times before huddling her close to him, as she just limply hangs off his arms. And then he just starts shaking. The individual reactions each character has after the battle with Jenova are all impressive as well, because each one really captures in a few seconds of animation a whole lot of emotions, and they all fit the individual. Yuffie's and Cid's are the two I remember most, partly because they were my main party post-Aeris, but also I think because of the dichotomy between the two. Yuffie breaks down into a sobbing mess, while Cid just looks down at Aeris's body, takes a drag of his cigarette, and exhales out into the sky. The young, naive kid facing death for the first time, and the jaded old pilot who can only look on helplessly. All the while, that music plays on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 05:59
|
|
|
VagueRant posted:Do I have to be the jerk who points out Sephiroth's random gloved and not gloved hands in the CG? And the way some of the positioning seemed off? And the fact that Aeris' body somehow sinks into deep water? I guess I'm saying the amazing-at-the-time CG was actually pretty sloppy. I don't know about HP, but once you learn it's not neccessary to drag every character's HP down by loading them with materia higher than normal hp isn't weird. That's what "gently caress you go level" gate, bosses like Materia Keeper and Demon Wall are for, to show you the proper levels. keet fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jun 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:00
|
|
|
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. But if you think Aeris' theme sounds really familliar, you've probably played FF6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBY8QN1BbPg It's the Aria di mezzo Carattere, also known as the song that plays during the Opera cutscene. I love little callbacks like that. They aren't exactly the same, but both those tunes captures a bitter-sweetness that just wrenches my heart.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:03
|
|
|
I think another RPG game which had very moving death scenes is Digital Devil Saga 2. The whole first game is setting up the characterisations for the second game, then halfway through the DDS2 it just turns into Final Destination: The Game. After that point, I had no idea where the game was heading and it sent me through a complete headspin. Deaths of playable characters aren't really done that often. If the writers want a playable character to be killed off, they usually have it in the tutorial stages like in FFXII or right at the end in like in FFX and FFXIII. It's pretty rare that they do it mid-game, but when they do, it's in a really effective way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:04
|
|
|
penguinmambo: Granted, I ran around with every character filled to the brim with greens and reds, but does the HP drain on Materia actually make that much of a difference? That probably would explain it, what with Elentor just using Cure, Enemy Skill and a lot of physical attacks. Whereas I'd be using all of the summons and a lot of Comet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:06
|
|
|
When I first played through the game, I didn't know that Aeris would die. So it struck hard. I was a teenager, so I got it, even then. It was a terribly sad scene, set up by the beautifully alien City of the Ancients. As for her death, aside from her theme, what really gets to me is her materia bouncing down the steps into the water. It makes a chime-like sound. It really drives home the idea of loss.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:06
|
|
|
ReliableSand posted:I had never literally hated a video game villain till then, nor had a genuine drive to kill said video game villain. I agree wholeheartedly. And the Jenova boss that comes right after was just a punching bag for all it's presence in the story. Who you really want to off is Sehpiroth himself, but instead you get this. But what really killed me was the need to change the discs. You have to literally stop playing the game, return the to the real world, and put Aeris away in order to keep the game going.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:07
|
|
|
As hamfisted and badly written as the Cait Sith (2) death and return scene is, I have to admit that it's a brilliant interactive narrative tool. Not only does it surreptitiously prepare the player for the heavyweight emotional events to come but it also simultaneously provides false reassurance to any player thinking 'see, they wouldn't kill off a main character!', making Aeris' death all the more shocking. They could've managed better translation and timing though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:26
|
|
|
VagueRant posted:Do I have to be the jerk who points out Sephiroth's random gloved and not gloved hands in the CG? And the way some of the positioning seemed off? And the fact that Aeris' body somehow sinks into deep water? I guess I'm saying the amazing-at-the-time CG was actually pretty sloppy. They loaded down Aeris with HP Up materia in an attempt to save her, but forgot to take them off when they 'buried' her.  Regarding the oddities of Sephiroth's inconsistent design... well, depending on interpretation, there COULD be a reason for that, but to go into it would be skirting spoilers. Let's just say it's at least PARTIALLY likely that it was done intentionally, though it's far more likely it was just sloppy CG cinematography.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:33
|
|
|
This scene didn't have a serious effect on me the first time around because I was so convinced that in this fantasy game where people use insane magic and superhuman ability that they'd be able to bring her back to life. As I pushed on through the game I slowly began to realize that probably wasn't going to happen. Subsequent playthroughs probably hit me harder. I love the Forgotten City and its music. Some people complain that the entire game should have been in Midgar but if it had, we would have never gotten such an area and I think that would have been unfortunate. evelynevvie posted:Here's the orchestrated Aeris' Theme that I'm used to. Didn't realize there is more than one version. Yeah I have both of these versions on my music playlist because they're fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 06:56
|
|
|
Honestly, the impact of this death is similar to a game that came out much later, Without Warning on the PS2, as the first character that game kills off is the first one you play as. Normally the first guy you play as is ingrained as the "main" character, so him dying at the halfway point really gets across that anyone can (and does) die in that game. In fact, of the 7 playable characters only 2/3 survive.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:07
|
|
|
Shiki Dan posted:Wow, your first 2 RPGs were Phantasy Star 2 and FF7??? Yeah, after Phantasy Star 2's brutality, I wasn't foaming at the mouth for another RPG experience. Years later, I watched my cousin play a few battles in FF7 and decided to give 'em another try. What a revelation! Then I played FF8. My strategy was to level characters as much as possible. I also thought cards were hard to get and should be hoarded. I drew 300 of each magic. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:11
|
|
|
Goddamnit, Elentor. You are really doing this game justice  Honestly, Aeris has always been my favorite game character. At first it was more because "she's pretty to my 10 year old self, but after multiple play throughs, I really loved how she wasn't just the willowy mysterious girl and that she had some spunk. She really seemed like someone I'd want to be friends with...or at least someone I'd want to go on a world saving mission with.This LP is really convincing me to do an Aeris cosplay, like I've been wanting to do for pretty much ever (before I even knew cosplay was a thing) I know FF costumes in general are pretty over done but...damnit, she's my favorite character 
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:16
|
|
|
I always imagined Aeris dying would be after a long plot epiphany or battle or something. I never thought that it would be this somber and threatening. I've played FFVI to that part everyone says is so shocking because the bad guy basically wins. This feels even more hopeless. The world was already in near ruin. Your party was not stable to begin with. It's facing destruction from someone no one can even begin to understand how to approach or stop.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:22
|
|
|
BioEnchanted posted:Honestly, the impact of this death is similar to a game that came out much later, Without Warning on the PS2, as the first character that game kills off is the first one you play as. Normally the first guy you play as is ingrained as the "main" character, so him dying at the halfway point really gets across that anyone can (and does) die in that game. In fact, of the 7 playable characters only 2/3 survive. Holy poo poo, I can't believe anyone else played that game. Wasn't the first guy to die shotgun guy?
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:23
|
|
|
What really got me about the whole section, beginning to end, was how dead the city and the area around it felt. Like Elentor said in the update, it felt sterile. Nothing lives there now, but you can see that at one point, this was home to people. Real people who lived lives like ours with families and friends and here you are, picking through the remains of those lives trying to find someone important to you. Only to find more death.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:23
|
|
|
Aeris changed after she got to the Temple of the Ancients. Acting like someone possessed with a mission and separating herself from the others. Did she act like the type who preferred to be a loner and do everything by herself after all that she went through? That castle's glass looked like a sort of barrier or encased to handle the depths. I feel like there should have been more to it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:29
|
|
|
Scalding Coffee posted:Aeris changed after she got to the Temple of the Ancients. Acting like someone possessed with a mission and separating herself from the others. Did she act like the type who preferred to be a loner and do everything by herself after all that she went through? I dunno, but the fact you never really figure out how much Aeris knows and the Forgotten City looks like some Linear-B level poo poo adds to the mystery. It's one thing Square never really hosed with later so I assume it's intentional. I'm also 99% sure the weird issues in that FMV are because it was made before the stage was, given how important the scene is an that its using the "high quality" FMV models. The 1% is built into some fan-theory that, due to some dialogue stuff left in the game, they reworked/spliced FMV footage made when Aeris was planned to die in a different location/time in the game. keet fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Jun 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:36
|
|
|
Hongkongaton posted:Goddamnit, Elentor. You are really doing this game justice Also totally serious post, Aeris has the kind of outfit you could pretty much just wear as a real outfit (ie, try to replicate the overall style, not a 100% accurate replica) if people wouldn't get weird about it. keet fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jun 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 07:47
|
|
|
This was the second saddest video game death of my childhood. The most was in Phantasy Star 4 with Alys Brangwin, but possibly because I played it first and I was younger and a bit more naive. Both games did it very well with very similar characters, too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 08:02
|
|
|
It's really embarrassing to admit this, but the thing about Aeris' death that made me saddest wasn't that my favorite character was dead, that the Cetra were officially extinct, or that she'd never get to be with her friends til the end. No, I was sad because it meant she and Cloud would never be together, which was an unbearable thought to me as a typical 12 year old girl.  Anyway, I still get really sad whenever I play through this part. The animations are spectacular. Cloud catches her as she falls, prompts her to move, and when she doesn't, he clutches her close to him before finally releasing his grip and letting her touch the ground, as he shakes uncontrollably with rage and sorrow over her dead body. Even though the game uses text instead of voice acting, the animation during that scene makes it so that you can almost hear Cloud's voice crack when he's speaking. I also like that he and the other characters had a realistic response. It's not the overblown, melodramatic mess that it easily could have been, but instead is a very sincere and heartfelt reaction to the death of his close friend. Likewise, all of the party members have a really touching moment when they pay their last respects to her (except for Vincent, gently caress that guy). Everything about this scene was done so well. And then the rest of the game happens. It's really too bad that the story kind of goes downhill from here. The game becomes considerably less lighthearted than before and devolves into a confusing mess of "deep" anime bullshit, though thankfully it avoids the ham-fisted biblical symbolism that was in vogue at the time. Edit: Also, another big gently caress you to Brady Games for spoiling this for me. I can't even imagine what my response to the scene would have been had I not known that it was coming, and it still kind of pisses me off to this day. Pineapple Salad fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Jun 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 08:37
|
|
|
Regalingualius posted:Also, if I might recommend just a slight change... Could the video that shows the dirty deed being done be changed to one that starts playing Aeris's theme when the materia starts bouncing? That, to me at least, was what totally clenched the scene the first time I saw it; It didn't quite sink in just how sad the scene was until you hear those opening notes. The tension builds as you explore this stale, abandoned citadel, the pressure rises as you go deeper into the abyss, chasing Aeris to try to understand her purpose, and to face Cloud's demons. Then just as you think you've won... A flash in a moment and it's over, and the silence falls, broken only by the clink of Aeris's materia echoing around the room. And the scene, too, resonates in a moment of soundless anguish. As emotional as the music is, it's unnecessary. This scene hit me hard as a 9-year old kid, not just because I'd come to think of Aeris as one of the team (and one of the best, with her really handy limit breaks), but because I'd realised that even with all she'd been through, and all she'd come to understand about her place in the world, she wanted to do her bit to save it. Aeris was amazing. And now she's gone. Not gone in a kind of "It's okay, we can bring her back" kind of way, but really, truly, gone. ... Sephiroth's going to get a buster sword in the neck.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 08:58
|
|
|
revtoiletduck posted:I love the way Sephiroth basks in the glory of stabbing a girl in the back. And I love the way that he still has a ton of fangirls because of his gorgeous hair and ~mysteriousness~. I don't remember how I was spoiled for Aeris' death. I think it was kind of an osmosis thing that I picked up from offhand comments online. But that doesn't ruin the fact that even though I've never played the main game and possibly never will, I am seriously sad right now. Because at this point in the game, if Cloud's the only hope this world's got, they are seriously screwed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 08:59
|
|
|
FFVII was the first JRPG I ever played. In fact me and my brother spent all of our savings to get PS1 just for this game, despite that we'd only tried it for about 30 minutes at a friend's house. The story drew us right in, to the point that whenever one of us was playing ahead of the other, the other would stay out of hearing range altogether to not get spoiled in the slightest. It was amazing, considering that we sometimes had to use Finnish-English dictionary to understand what was going on, that we wanted to stay unspoiled so much. Then my friend who just had bought a game before us blurted during school lunch: Did you see Aeris die already? Thank goodness I had just played past this part the previous day but I still could punch that guy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 09:22
|
|
|
That was nicely presented, Elentor. Aeris' death never affected me having played FFVII much later than the others, but it's nicely done - a bit clunky, but has a charm about its clunkiness nonetheless. It's easy to see why it's still presented as one of the most shocking character death scenes in a game, ever. It's so sudden and unexpected to do that to a PC, and not have the ability to resurrect them in a sidequest or something. (Unless of course you max out 4 revive materia, breed a Silver Chocobo, and fly it to the City of the Ancients and dump all 4 into the water below. )*I mean her death has become so well known, that it's pretty much the first thing people talk about when this game comes up. And it affected people so much, that they'd spread rumours about bringing her back, or using a cheating device to add her back into the party, because they couldn't let her go. It does a good job of though of making Sephiroth a villain, with a good reason to hate, rather than his somewhat currently nebulous motives at doing something with the Planet and Meteor. *the internet circa 1998 Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jun 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 09:46
|
|
|
Pretty much the only thing I remember about seeing this scene as a kid is thinking something to the effect of, "Woah, the bad guy actually killed the hero's girlfriend and there's more discs. Anything can happen in this game and it is awesome."
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 09:53
|
|
|
Seriously though, Elentor, if you haven't already played ahead, please head back to town to buy some Phoenix Downs. Aeris is just too powerful and important of a character to lose after all of this. But either way, you should play the game as you best see fit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 10:01
|
|
|
quote:You know I could have sworn there was a room in Chrono Cross with this exact same layout, in a mysterious ancient water themed temple at that. flocons de mais posted:I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. But if you think Aeris' theme sounds really familliar, you've probably played FF6. It's not quite the same, but it is the progression I kept expecting to happen in Aeris's theme but never did.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 10:25
|
|
|
For some reason when I played through (for the first time) a few years ago I stopped at the point of enterring the forest. I don't know if I studdenly got a massive uni project to work on, but I never realised until now that I was so close to this fabled point in the game. Thanks Elentor for showing me what I forgot to go back and see.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 10:45
|
|
|
I remember being twelve years old and having dreams about that scene after seeing it. It was easy for an angsty pre-teen to see himself as Cloud, and Aeris as the first girl they had a crush on. After spending a childhood stomping goombas and defeating robot masters, it was time to grow up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 10:55
|
|
|
I'm glad you guys enjoyed this update. I had a simple goal since the LP started. To present the game as if you're playing it for the first time. But I know most readers already played it and the ones who didn't already knew about this spoiler. Nevertheless, the point is to show the game as if you're playing it for the first time. Even if you have already played it before. I'm glad I succeeded to some extent. Either way, I'm glad we're past this. We are now starting the mystery zone. Everything from here on is a mystery to people who haven't played the game. And while Aeris' death is a major plot point, it's not the only one. poo poo is only starting and as someone already put it, the game only gets more and more intense from now on. Remember guys, the No Spoilers rule is still active. We're past the big spoiler but the plot has barely started. Don't talk about future events, avoid talking about the EU and don't give any hints towards might or might not happen. simplefish posted:Holy gently caress, you beautiful bastard Elanator. Thank you for your kind words. I'm puzzled at how you managed to insert two As in my name though! And yes, I agree. The music in this entire arc of the game is very strong. penguinmambo posted:The worst part? The bed thing was a really creepy detail when you think about it. There are so many details in this game. It's absolutely crazy. Also, whose is possessive. Think of it as 'from whom' .Silver Falcon posted:Man, I kept expecting you to do a cliffhanger or something but nope. Nope, nope, we are just plowing ahead. I'm sure by now you guys must have realized I cut my updates intentionally to leave it in a cliffhanger, but I think this one had to be raw. I kinda told you guys I wouldn't split this update though. Macaluso posted:It's finally here I already went in detail about the jet. We even talked about how many airplanes there are on the game! About the change... I was trying to do something different with combat mechanics but it just wouldn't work out. I tried it twice with Tifa, Barret, Cloud; Red, Vincent, Cloud; Yuffie, Vincent, Cloud - but it never worked. I got really frustrated because the nearest Save Point with a PHS was far away (the one down there doesn't work) and I was really tired of reloading, so I decided to save it for another boss that's more accessible and/or I don't have to watch a lot of cutscenes every time I have to try it. The party we got was the last party I used in this case. I apologize for any oddity. Brainamp posted:
I... I did it. I... I created a FF7 thread with over 8000 replies with at least one soul not being spoiled that Aeris dies. VagueRant posted:One last note: Elentor, I am still convinced you're over-levelled. I massively overtrained my party to level 50 or so with the Junon alarm by this point in an old save and your HP seems close to that. Maybe I'm crazy? Uh? You can... well, read today's update. There's a screenshot of the menu showing Cloud. He's level 34, pretty far from 50. I'm anything but over-leveled. Green materia and Summon materia can reduce your HP by a whole lot. For example, with a lot of Summon and Magic materia, Cloud's HP goes from 1854 to 1210. That's over 600 HP, about 1/3 lost! Elentor fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jun 28, 2012 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 11:01
|
|
|
Strange, I remembered the first disk change coming later on After the showdown in the crater, with Tifa waking up in Juno being the first scene of disk 2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 11:04
|
|
|
Elentor posted:I... I did it. I... I created a FF7 thread of over 8000 replies without at least one soul being spoiled that Aeris dies. Yeah, you've won, time to end things. LP's over, close the thread, you've accomplished your goal. seriously though, fantastic update. I was spoiled as to Aeris's death (I was nine at the time, my older brother was a dick. He also spoiled the twist in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince) but not as to how so it was still pretty shocking. I'd already played FFIV though so it wasn't, like, A Thing, oh my god they killed a PC how could they do this, but it did incite me in future RPG plays to stick to only using my favorite characters because what if the plot kills them and I regret not spending time with them? Twelve years later, I'm only just now breaking myself of that habit. (I'm also breaking myself of my item hoarding habit, you should see how I'm downing Elixirs in FFV like a teenager and a twelve pack of Coke but that's a different story.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 11:08
|
|
|
I can't help it. Before the boss battle, the scene kind of feels to me like it tries too hard and it doesn't affect me much. But after the battle, when your party members just silently mourn her death in their own way? Extremely effective. By far the most powerful part of the entire scene as far as I'm concerned. It makes them all very human and relatable. (except Vincent, that douche)
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 11:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 01:35 |
|
|
ZeusJupitar posted:Strange, I remembered the first disk change coming later on After the showdown in the crater, with Tifa waking up in Juno being the first scene of disk 2. I think that's the third disc.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2012 11:21
|
|