Stargate: "I do not understand why everything in the script must inevitably explode."

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Stargate: "I do not understand why everything in the script must inevitably explode."

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James R: Dec 22, 2006; I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?

The dialling computer is something well worth discussing. We all know that it's cobbled together and not as good as using a DHD.. is this mainly because the dialling computer effectively is manually spinning the gate, rather than when we see a DHD dialling, which is much quicker?

# ? Jul 5, 2012 21:58

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# ? May 3, 2024 18:57

WFGuy: Feb 18, 2011; Press X to jump, then press X again!; Toilet Rascal

It's more that there's tons of data coming in from the Stargate to the DHD at any time, and the SGC computer just sort of stumbled into the correct way to enter a single chevron at a time. They ignore most of the other data (including sometimes-vital safety bits) because generally they just don't know what each part means and they can't parse the safety signals. Also apparently DHDs have some crazy energy source in them that nobody ever mentions again because they can do 'for free' what costs the SGC millions or billions in energy consumed.

I don't know if they've gone into any more detail than that outside the show itself.

Also, on the subject of Christopher Judge, apparently he's a crazy prankster sort that likes to barge into people's trailers while they're sleeping and jump onto them in bed while yelling at the top of his lungs. I'm sure he'd be great fun at conventions if the fans haven't broken him yet.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:09

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

I would imagine that gets tiresome quite rapidly when you're working to a TV filming schedule.

In fact I'd say that's quite prickish.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:14

Mortanis: Dec 28, 2005; It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.; College Slice

We know the DHD does "firmware updates", including stellar drift calculations and the like. I actually liked the idea that the SGC machine is ignoring a bunch of data - it lends a lot of weight to the "humanity is in way over its head" theme that was the first few seasons. It's not like it's all that big of a deal in general - they were designed to be dialed manually in an emergency, much like SGC does.

They've used the "wormhole doesn't want to close" aspect a few times. The puddle jumper with the water world was one (though I think they claimed that was the energy in the water, wasn't it?), and at least once in Universe they held the gate open by sticking a fist into it.

Apparently the Ancients just never figured on wormholes and sunspots, though, in all that self-correcting stuff. Or that time they went through a sun and nearly destroyed it - or was that a result of using the MacGuyver'd DHD?

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:29

GuardianOfAsgaard: Feb 1, 2012; Their steel shines red
With enemy blood
It sings of victory
Granted by the Gods

Mortanis posted:

We know the DHD does "firmware updates", including stellar drift calculations and the like. I actually liked the idea that the SGC machine is ignoring a bunch of data - it lends a lot of weight to the "humanity is in way over its head" theme that was the first few seasons. It's not like it's all that big of a deal in general - they were designed to be dialed manually in an emergency, much like SGC does.

Here's a question, how the hell would you manually dial a Pegasus Galaxy Stargate if you needed to?

quote:

They've used the "wormhole doesn't want to close" aspect a few times. The puddle jumper with the water world was one (though I think they claimed that was the energy in the water, wasn't it?), and at least once in Universe they held the gate open by sticking a fist into it.

Yeah the water planet was due to the energy in the water, and they've said a few times that a gate wont close automatically (at least until the 38 minutes is up) so long as something is going through it (radio signal, someone's hand etc), like when Jack held it open from the SGC's end in Shades Of Grey to stop Maybourne's chums from dialing elsewhere.

quote:

Apparently the Ancients just never figured on wormholes and sunspots, though, in all that self-correcting stuff. Or that time they went through a sun and nearly destroyed it - or was that a result of using the MacGuyver'd DHD?

The whole gate-through-the-sun deal in Red Sky was due to Carter using their dialing computer to override safety systems that were preventing them from establishing a lock.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:39

Syka: Mar 24, 2007; sum n00b or wut?

Mortanis posted:

Apparently the Ancients just never figured on wormholes and sunspots, though, in all that self-correcting stuff. Or that time they went through a sun and nearly destroyed it - or was that a result of using the MacGuyver'd DHD?

Those were both explicitly stated to be because of the dialing computer, I think.

Why they never stole a DHD from a barren planet, I don't know.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:40

GuardianOfAsgaard: Feb 1, 2012; Their steel shines red
With enemy blood
It sings of victory
Granted by the Gods

Syka posted:

Those were both explicitly stated to be because of the dialing computer, I think.

Why they never stole a DHD from a barren planet, I don't know.

I think each DHD worked exclusively with it's specific Stargate, or at least only on a specific planet since they could use the Russian's DHD at one point.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:41

Flatscan: Mar 27, 2001; Outlaw Journalist

Mortanis posted:

Apparently the Ancients just never figured on wormholes and sunspots, though, in all that self-correcting stuff. Or that time they went through a sun and nearly destroyed it - or was that a result of using the MacGuyver'd DHD?

That's all down to the dialling computer. The only time it happens in Atlantis is down to Rodney loving with the DHD programming.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:43

IRQ: Sep 9, 2001; SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

GuardianOfAsgaard posted:

I think each DHD worked exclusively with it's specific Stargate, or at least only on a specific planet since they could use the Russian's DHD at one point.

Nah, the gate bridge means they figured out a way around that. I think by that point in the show they had decided that using their own dialing computer was for some reason more valuable than jacking one and reprogramming it. Or the writers were super lazy by that point, take your pick.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:47

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

It was Walter. He wanted job security so he kept sabotaging any efforts to bring a new DHD to Earth.

# ? Jul 5, 2012 22:57

McSpanky: Jan 16, 2005

GreenNight posted:

Yeah but they also removed the boobs

I bought an old season 1 box set off a friend just to keep those glorious space egyptian boobs, and Apophis' hilarious expression of approval.

As for the DHD, I think it was once mentioned that the SGC still uses the dialing computer because even though they have an imperfect understanding of the stargate dialing system, they still know a lot more about their computer than they do about the DHDs, which are pretty much black boxes outside of what little they've deciphered of Ancient crystal computer technology.

And the dialing computer does come in handy occasionally, like when Sam wrote a faster dialing program to lock out Anubis during his siege with the anti-gate weapon, or when they wrote that virus that Ba'al hosed with and accidentally shut down the entire gate network except for Earth's gate (not using a DHD, natch).

# ? Jul 5, 2012 23:00

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Or it's because the Stargate program is run by the Department of Defense :v:

# ? Jul 5, 2012 23:03

Yaos: Feb 22, 2003; She is a cat of significant gravy.

It's easier to implement their security system with the existing system than implement it by hijacking the signal from a DHD. Later on they had no problem reprogramming DHDs so that's not true either.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:18

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

WFGuy posted:

It's more that there's tons of data coming in from the Stargate to the DHD at any time, and the SGC computer just sort of stumbled into the correct way to enter a single chevron at a time.

They still have to mechanically spin the gate but at least they figured out how to automatically cycle the lock mechanism :haw:

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:30

Kempo Yellow Belt: Jan 5, 2012; Fun Shoe

Instant Sunrise posted:

Or it's because the Stargate program is run by the Department of Defense

Do you mean the same Department of Defense that has a loving space shuttle program?

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:34

IRQ: Sep 9, 2001; SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

truth masseuse posted:

Do you mean the same Department of Defense that has a loving space shuttle program?

Maybe I'm missing the joke but the reason the space shuttle sucked so much dick was that the DoD was involved and wanted it to be a satellite kidnapper and a space truck in addition to, you know, being a shuttle.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:41

Instant Sunrise: Apr 12, 2007; The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

IRQ posted:

Maybe I'm missing the joke but the reason the space shuttle sucked so much dick was that the DoD was involved and wanted it to be a satellite kidnapper and a space truck in addition to, you know, being a shuttle.

These shuttles, are they well armed?

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:44

Kempo Yellow Belt: Jan 5, 2012; Fun Shoe

IRQ posted:

Maybe I'm missing the joke but the reason the space shuttle sucked so much dick was that the DoD was involved and wanted it to be a satellite kidnapper and a space truck in addition to, you know, being a shuttle.

I guess you got me there. I'll need to edit my bad attempt at some humor. Because honestly, nothing good ever came out of the space shuttle program. Nothing. :circlefap:

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:48

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

truth masseuse posted:

Do you mean the same Department of Defense that has a loving space shuttle program?

They are a formidable craft.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:49

Acer Pilot: Feb 17, 2007; put the 'the' in therapist

IRQ posted:

Maybe I'm missing the joke but the reason the space shuttle sucked so much dick was that the DoD was involved and wanted it to be a satellite kidnapper and a space truck in addition to, you know, being a shuttle.

That picture is pretty recent (June 2012), it was all over the news because the DoD or whoever actually has their own secret shuttle program. That's not the same type of shuttle that was just recently retired.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:51

Kempo Yellow Belt: Jan 5, 2012; Fun Shoe

Haywood Japwnme posted:

That picture is pretty recent (June 2012), it was all over the news because the DoD or whoever actually has their own secret shuttle program. That's not the same type of shuttle that was just recently retired.

Air Force runs it. Not sure what private contractors are also involved. Off the top of my head probably Northrop Grumman, Boeing, or Raytheon. Regardless, it falls under the DoD. Was orbiting earth for months before it was spotted by amateur astronomers if I recall correctly. Makes one wonder what other neat stuff the DoD might have its hand in.

e: Also, it is entirely unmanned. So, ya know, Pakistan, you might want to reconsider your position with harboring Islamic extremists.

Kempo Yellow Belt fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jul 6, 2012

# ? Jul 6, 2012 00:54

James R: Dec 22, 2006; I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?

truth masseuse posted:

Air Force runs it. Not sure what private contractors are also involved. Off the top of my head probably Northrop Grumman, Boeing, or Raytheon. Regardless, it falls under the DoD. Was orbiting earth for months before it was spotting by amateur astronomers if I recall correctly. Makes one wonder what other neat stuff the DoD might have its hand in.

There really is a Stargate. Remember the episode with Wormhole X-Treme? Meta!

# ? Jul 6, 2012 01:03

Acer Pilot: Feb 17, 2007; put the 'the' in therapist

James R posted:

There really is a Stargate. Remember the episode with Wormhole X-Treme? Meta!

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 01:10

Kempo Yellow Belt: Jan 5, 2012; Fun Shoe

James R posted:

There really is a Stargate. Remember the episode with Wormhole X-Treme? Meta!

Haywood Japwnme posted:

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

I must verify this with my sources.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 01:17

IRQ: Sep 9, 2001; SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

Haywood Japwnme posted:

That picture is pretty recent (June 2012), it was all over the news because the DoD or whoever actually has their own secret shuttle program. That's not the same type of shuttle that was just recently retired.

Well I'm dumb, or at least uninformed. I had not heard about that. But it doesn't surprise me.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 02:00

Senor Tron: May 26, 2006

WFGuy posted:

It's more that there's tons of data coming in from the Stargate to the DHD at any time, and the SGC computer just sort of stumbled into the correct way to enter a single chevron at a time. They ignore most of the other data (including sometimes-vital safety bits) because generally they just don't know what each part means and they can't parse the safety signals. Also apparently DHDs have some crazy energy source in them that nobody ever mentions again because they can do 'for free' what costs the SGC millions or billions in energy consumed.

I don't know if they've gone into any more detail than that outside the show itself.

I assume that a properly managed Stargate actually requires very little power to function. The DHD delicately manages the gate in a way that a wormhole is easily established. Using a DHD is like opening a doorway, manual dialing is like smashing through a wall.

quote:

Also, on the subject of Christopher Judge, apparently he's a crazy prankster sort that likes to barge into people's trailers while they're sleeping and jump onto them in bed while yelling at the top of his lungs. I'm sure he'd be great fun at conventions if the fans haven't broken him yet.

Already broken, look up the convention video of him learning what furries are.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 02:46

James R: Dec 22, 2006; I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?

Senor Tron posted:

Already broken, look up the convention video of him learning what furries are.

That's right ladies and gentlemen, you've offended Christopher Judge!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aTnhO5b8zk

WHATTT???

# ? Jul 6, 2012 10:22

RembrandtQEinstein: Jul 1, 2009; A GOD, A MESSIAH, AN ARCHANGEL, A KING, A PRINCE, AND AN ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE.

James R posted:

That's right ladies and gentlemen, you've offended Christopher Judge!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aTnhO5b8zk

WHATTT???

Christopher Judge rules

# ? Jul 6, 2012 11:37

JetsGuy: Sep 17, 2003; science + hockey
=
LASER SKATES

IRQ posted:

Maybe I'm missing the joke but the reason the space shuttle sucked so much dick was that the DoD was involved and wanted it to be a satellite kidnapper and a space truck in addition to, you know, being a shuttle.

What? The shuttle "sucked so much dick"? Hahahahahhahahahahahaha

Man, we need people like you on our milestone planning meetings. Seriously, opinions like this are the reason why we can't have the shuttle. To say nothing of the travesty of Constellation being killed.

EDIT:

I'm not joking by the way, public opinion of "NASA being a waste of money" amazes me when the total budget of NASA is literally nothing, like $19B. It's still a favorite target of people and politicians as a "place to cut waste" though. I can't tell you how many times politicians want to cut a specific program just to say they cut a *million* here or there. Yeah, that's really gonna help the trillions of deficit we have, assholes.

We really *could* use more anti-space opinions to understand what we can do better to get people to understand that there's a lot NASA does beyond simple academic interest.

JetsGuy fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jul 6, 2012

# ? Jul 6, 2012 16:32

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

JetsGuy posted:

What? The shuttle "sucked so much dick"? Hahahahahhahahahahahaha

Man, we need people like you on our milestone planning meetings. Seriously, opinions like this are the reason why we can't have the shuttle. To say nothing of the travesty of Constellation being killed.

EDIT:

I'm not joking by the way, public opinion of "NASA being a waste of money" amazes me when the total budget of NASA is literally nothing, like $19B. It's still a favorite target of people and politicians as a "place to cut waste" though. I can't tell you how many times politicians want to cut a specific program just to say they cut a *million* here or there. Yeah, that's really gonna help the trillions of deficit we have, assholes.

We really *could* use more anti-space opinions to understand what we can do better to get people to understand that there's a lot NASA does beyond simple academic interest.

I don't think his opinion is 'space travel sucks', his opinion is 'the shuttle was a badly compromised design'. I actually think he's right on a few points. Military interests in the shuttle design program demanded capabilities (like the ability to put payloads into polar orbits) that came at a serious cost. The shuttle ended up something like 20% over its design weight (I think?)

So I don't think it's an anti-space opinion so much as a 'don't design spacecraft that try to do everything for everyone and end up being inadequate at everything' opinion, though I'm not actually sure how well supported this opinion is.

I still love the shuttle though :allears:

General Battuta fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 6, 2012

# ? Jul 6, 2012 16:44

Kempo Yellow Belt: Jan 5, 2012; Fun Shoe

JetsGuy posted:

What? The shuttle "sucked so much dick"? Hahahahahhahahahahahaha
I'm not joking by the way, public opinion of "NASA being a waste of money" amazes me when the total budget of NASA is literally nothing, like $19B.

Can't underscore this enough. Its contributions to medicine alone are astounding. Yet we still waste money on things like the Osprey(30Billion last I remember) which still is a crap-shoot when taking off and landing.

http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/MedicalBenefits/main.html

Wikipedia posted:

Controversy
The V-22's development process has been long and controversial, partly due to its large cost increases.[41] The V-22's development budget was first planned for $2.5 billion in 1986, then increased to a projected $30 billion in 1988.[25] As of 2008, $27 billion had been spent on the Osprey program and another $27.2 billion will be required to complete planned production numbers by the end of the program.[18]
Its [The V-22's] production costs are considerably greater than for helicopters with equivalent capability�specifically, about twice as great as for the CH-53E, which has a greater payload and an ability to carry heavy equipment the V-22 cannot... an Osprey unit would cost around $60 million to produce, and $35 million for the helicopter equivalent.
�Michael E. O'Hanlon, 2002.[42]
The V-22 squadron's former commander at Marine Corps Air Station New River, Lieutenant Colonel Odin Lieberman, was relieved of duty in 2001 after allegations that he instructed his unit that they needed to falsify maintenance records to make the plane appear more reliable.[18][43] Three officers were later implicated in the falsification scandal.[41]
The aircraft is incapable of autorotation to make a safe landing in helicopter mode if both engines fail. A director of the Pentagon's testing office in 2005 said that if the Osprey loses power while flying like a helicopter below 1,600 feet (490 m), emergency landings "are not likely to be survivable". But Captain Justin "Moon" McKinney, a V-22 pilot, says there is an alternative, "We can turn it into a plane and glide it down, just like a C-130".[38] A complete loss of power would require the failure of both engines, as one engine can power both proprotors via interconnected drive shafts.[44] While vortex ring state (VRS) contributed to a deadly V-22 accident, the aircraft is less susceptible to the condition than conventional helicopters based on flight testing.[5] But a GAO report stated the V-22 to be "less forgiving than conventional helicopters" during this phenomenon.[45] In addition, several test flights to explore the V-22's VRS characteristics in greater detail were canceled.[46] The Marines now train new pilots in the recognition of and recovery from VRS and have instituted operational envelope limits and instrumentation to help pilots avoid VRS conditions.[25][47]
With the first combat deployment of the MV-22 in October 2007, Time Magazine ran an article condemning the aircraft as unsafe, overpriced, and completely inadequate.[38] The Marine Corps responded by arguing that much of the article's data were dated, obsolete, inaccurate, and reflected expectations that ran too high for any new field of aircraft.[48]
The V-22 has a maximum rotor downwash speed above 80 knots, more than the 64 knots lower limit of a hurricane.[49][50] However, it is possible to fast rope from the V-22.[51]
The Osprey has overcome problems such as hydraulic fires in the nacelles, vortex ring state, unarmed landings in hostile territory, and lack of autorotation.[52]

But yeah, the Shuttle program was such a gigantic cluster gently caress that produced nothing beneficial to society. :circlefap:

Kempo Yellow Belt fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jul 6, 2012

# ? Jul 6, 2012 16:44

WFGuy: Feb 18, 2011; Press X to jump, then press X again!; Toilet Rascal

NASA is an incredible thing that should get as much funding as it needs, partly because (to paraphrase the great Neil deGrasse Tyson) when kids want to grow up to be astronauts, we get a whole new generation of inspired scientific minds. However, the space shuttle is terrible, and it's a good thing the decrepit thing's dead. Over-budget, overdesigned, inefficient, and not safe enough. Bring on the next generation.

You can think the shuttle is an atrocious design without being an anti-scientific strawman, thanks.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 17:06

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

truth masseuse posted:

But yeah, the Shuttle program was such a gigantic cluster gently caress that produced nothing beneficial to society.

Nobody has said this in the entire thread :confused:

# ? Jul 6, 2012 17:08

Kempo Yellow Belt: Jan 5, 2012; Fun Shoe

General Battuta posted:

Nobody has said this in the entire thread

IRQ posted:

Maybe I'm missing the joke but the reason the space shuttle sucked so much dick was that the DoD was involved and wanted it to be a satellite kidnapper and a space truck in addition to, you know, being a shuttle.

Wasn't explicit, but seemed implied in his "space shuttle sucked so much dick" statement.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 17:10

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

The reason he's talking about DoD involvement is because a lot of people think that military pressures on the design led to compromises that proved unsafe or an impediment to the shuttle's mission, like unnecessarily huge wings for Vandenberg landings. 'Did not do its job as well as it could have' is not the same as 'never benefited society or worked in any way'.

# ? Jul 6, 2012 17:14

Kempo Yellow Belt: Jan 5, 2012; Fun Shoe

General Battuta posted:

The reason he's talking about DoD involvement is because a lot of people think that military pressures on the design led to compromises that proved unsafe or an impediment to the shuttle's mission, like unnecessarily huge wings for Vandenberg landings. 'Did not do its job as well as it could have' is not the same as 'never benefited society or worked in any way'.

Oh, come on now. I think it's obvious I was using some hyperbole. But for you to equate his "space shuttle sucked so much dick" statement with, "It could have done better", is just as far off the mark.

e: Additionally, had he cited Vandenberg landings, and other specific short comings in the Space shuttle, it would be a non-issue. But let me just make this clear. It all started when I made a joke about the Air Force(DoD) operating their own space shuttle program right now when another poster made a joke about why the Stargate on earth didn't have a typical DHD. Was not even talking about the original space shuttle. Was referring to the X-37B.

Kempo Yellow Belt fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Jul 6, 2012

# ? Jul 6, 2012 17:21

IRQ: Sep 9, 2001; SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

truth masseuse posted:

Wasn't explicit, but seemed implied in his "space shuttle sucked so much dick" statement.

Congratulations on completely missing the point then.

General Battuta posted:

I don't think his opinion is 'space travel sucks', his opinion is 'the shuttle was a badly compromised design'. I actually think he's right on a few points. Military interests in the shuttle design program demanded capabilities (like the ability to put payloads into polar orbits) that came at a serious cost. The shuttle ended up something like 20% over its design weight (I think?)

So I don't think it's an anti-space opinion so much as a 'don't design spacecraft that try to do everything for everyone and end up being inadequate at everything' opinion, though I'm not actually sure how well supported this opinion is.

I still love the shuttle though

Exactly, and I have no idea how that was unclear considering I stated exactly why the shuttle was a failure! In order to fund the thing it became exactly the problem it was meant to overcome. If it was just a shuttle, as had initially been the focus, it would have been fine, but because the DoD had a boner for militarizing space, it had to be made to spec to do things it never should have been doing, such as kidnapping satellites. Specialization of space vehicles should have been the path we took, not making a jack of all trades (and master of none). And then the shambling corpse of the shuttle lumbered on for years, being costly and needlessly dangerous and probably setting back progress had we had sensible spacecraft and let DoD gently caress around with shooting commie nazis out of the sky.

I have no idea how you get "gently caress space exploration" out of that. The shuttle, in practice, was a bad design. Did it result in good science? Yes, of course it did, but it was not the ideal way to do anything. If it was safer, more reliable, or less expensive, then we wouldn't be using Soyuz now, would we?

# ? Jul 6, 2012 18:44