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I actually used Flash Sweat very recently to try and get past the dragon so I could sunbro in the Depths. No noticeable change in damage, but I got past it anyway.
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Jul 19, 2012 00:00
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Zombie Boat posted:Trying to get avelyn is the first time I have actually been pissed off at this game. Seriously gently caress that. I found a way of getting it quite easily. Equip enough stuff to make you fatroll, then as soon as you turn the crank to rotate the stairway, sprint down the stairs and off the ledge. Don't pause, just run right off and you should make it. Watch out for the archers!
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Jul 19, 2012 00:11
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Zombie Boat posted:Trying to get avelyn is the first time I have actually been pissed off at this game. Seriously gently caress that. Avelyn.avi, and just another one of those Dark Souls experiences.
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Jul 19, 2012 00:31
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My latest battle with Smough using the Lightning Zweihander felt very symmetrical. Two guys using huge slow lightning weapons exploiting openings. I felt awesome when I beat him.
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Jul 19, 2012 00:41
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I stumbled onto Queelag for the first time ever today, entirely by accident. With one estus. Without finding the lower blighttown bonfire first, so I was saved in the Depths(skipped the bridge bonfire, nuts to respawns). I won on my first try and felt hard. I had to chug my last estus and eat a humanity with maybe 4 hit points left, but I won. I love this loving game.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:33
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What's the name of that psychological phenomenon where it's extremely hard for a person who understands something to comprehend how it might be hard for someone? You know, like how multiplication is second nature for pretty much everyone but we all had to spend weeks learning it at some point in our lives? Because it's weird finishing off, say, Queelag, with no problems, and remembering that she took me at least six tries my first time around, and I nearly snapped my Dual Shock 3 in half in frustration at the time. Not to mention Sen's Fortress.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:36
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Yeah Queelag took me 4-5 tries my first time. I was very stubborn about learning her attack patterns. Though I think I died when she had 1 sliver of health left on the second try.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:40
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I'm seriously stuck with my heavy warrior build and could use some advice. Going into this game blind has left me deep in with little options it seems. I'm in Anor Londo trying to kill S&O. I've been using the stone armor, +2 Grass Crest Shield, and a +4 Black Knight Sword. I am Level 48. Stats that aren't base: 12 Att (I have a +11 Pyromancy Flame which is seemingly useless.) 25 End 32 Str 18 Dex I'm wearing the Havel's Ring and Ring of Favor and Protection so my load is under 50% S&O really feels like a battle of luck for me. I've gotten to their combo form twice, one with each, I seem to have an easier time with Giant O. I tried going human to get help but all it got me was repeatedly invaded. I found Solaire using my last humanity. He's how I got to Giant S, who promptly butt slammed me into oblivion.
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Jul 19, 2012 01:57
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Pyromancy is actually pretty useful on either of them, provided you can find a window to lob a fireball. Obviously easier said than done without a summon to keep them distracted.
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Jul 19, 2012 02:30
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riznar posted:I'm seriously stuck with my heavy warrior build and could use some advice. Going into this game blind has left me deep in with little options it seems. That's actually a really good setup, I don't have much advice to offer other than fight them until you learn their patterns. If you have a shield with better lightning resist though, that might help a bit (Eagle Shield is probably the best shield to use here).
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Jul 19, 2012 02:38
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Keep them both on screen at as much as possible when they're both alive. That makes it easier to dodge, because Ornstein is a massive douchebag who will charge you when you try to engage Smough. Shield their attacks and then slap them with your sword 1handed, since it's generally faster to defend again. Remember that the Grass Crest Shield blocks around 95% or physical damage, so you should be fine with it but a heavier shield like the Eagle Shield that Jonjonaug mentioned could do you well, too. If you keep having trouble, drop your white sign in the bonfire room. You'll be summoned almost every time within minutes, then learn them in a safe manner by being a white phantom for others, as well as gaining liquid humanity and souls for it. Use the souls to further upgrade your equipment if you can.
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Jul 19, 2012 02:45
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riznar posted:I'm seriously stuck with my heavy warrior build and could use some advice. Going into this game blind has left me deep in with little options it seems. I don't know what pyromancies you have, but a few are actually very useful for them. I just beat them on my Pyromancy only run, and did it solo. If you can get it chaos storm took out about half of S' health. also it may take some grinding, but I'd suggest upgrading your shield and sword more if you can. Worst case, just hang around waiting for summons. It's usually pretty quick there.
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Jul 19, 2012 03:03
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As other people said, keep both of them in your vision. With Pyromancy, I'd say take down Smough first with Fire Orb/Great Chaos Fireball. Once Smough is dead, hug Ornstein's legs and use Combustion/Great Combustion. Also, I'd say switch to something you can move faster in. The biggest thing that killed me against Ornstein and Smough early on is not being able to get away from both of them. edit: Basically, with the exception of Quelaag and any of the bosses in Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith, you can't go wrong with Combustion/Great Combustion. Hits like a truck if your flame's upgraded, fast as hell, and since most of the bosses can be trivialized by snuggling all up close and personal with them, the pitiful range shouldn't be a problem. The Betrayer fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 03:07
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The Betrayer posted:Also, I'd say switch to something you can move faster in. Seconded, strip off pieces of the armor until you can flip/fast roll. If you're intent on staying heavy for role playing purposes then you might have to rely on the help of other phantoms, that way there are a couple targets for the bosses to chase instead of just dogging you the whole time.
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Jul 19, 2012 03:13
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Well that was anticlimactic but I'll take it. I decided to try using dung pies, since I'd defeated the first giant enemy I encountered like that before. But when I got to Giant Orstein he(she?) immediately began spamming lightning bolts nonstop and not moving otherwise. So I shot like 50 arrows from behind a broken pillar and won that way. Edit: Holy poo poo I just met Gwynvere  , and teleport YAY!
riznar fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 03:48
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Dr Snofeld posted:What's the name of that psychological phenomenon where it's extremely hard for a person who understands something to comprehend how it might be hard for someone? You know, like how multiplication is second nature for pretty much everyone but we all had to spend weeks learning it at some point in our lives? Because it's weird finishing off, say, Queelag, with no problems, and remembering that she took me at least six tries my first time around, and I nearly snapped my Dual Shock 3 in half in frustration at the time. Not to mention Sen's Fortress. Your words, they feed my ego. But really, I can't believe I didn't die. I roll around in Elite Knight armor with Astora's Straight Sword, backed by a Zweihander. Astora's wasn't doing much damage, so I went to swapping between two-handing the Zweihander for hits and shielding when she was spewing fire or swinging her sword. I wound up spending most of my time underneath her taking hits where possible, but she did some burst bullshit that nearly ended me, then followed through with magma spit that brought me to single digit health. My last estus and one humanity later, I had to cat and mouse my way back underneath her for the last five or six hits.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:04
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riznar posted:S&O really feels like a battle of luck for me. I've gotten to their combo form twice, one with each, I seem to have an easier time with Giant O. I tried going human to get help but all it got me was repeatedly invaded. I found Solaire using my last humanity. He's how I got to Giant S, who promptly butt slammed me into oblivion. I'm not sure what weird cosmic imbalances made you feel that buffed Ornstein is easier, but it's basically as close to objectively wrong as it gets. Buffed Ornstein has all of Buffed Smough's tools plus a grab, projectiles, three times the range and attacks that come out a whole lot faster. Do yourself a favor and learn how to dodge Smough's pathetically slow moves.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:06
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Heavy neutrino posted:I'm not sure what weird cosmic imbalances made you feel that buffed Ornstein is easier, but it's basically as close to objectively wrong as it gets. Buffed Ornstein has all of Buffed Smough's tools plus a grab, projectiles, three times the range and attacks that come out a whole lot faster. Do yourself a favor and learn how to dodge Smough's pathetically slow moves. From my first couple playthroughs(where I thought the same) it's the butt slam. If you get greedy and don't save enough stamina to roll, it'll catch you every time, and usually oneshot.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:23
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DiscreteContinuum posted:From my first couple playthroughs(where I thought the same) it's the butt slam. If you get greedy and don't save enough stamina to roll, it'll catch you every time, and usually oneshot. Not sure what you're saying; both Ornstein and Smough have the exact same buttslam move.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:30
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Heavy neutrino posted:Not sure what you're saying; both Ornstein and Smough have the exact same buttslam move. I had only fought each once when I posted. A single instance of each is likely to have weirdness. The buttslam did indeed oneshot me. I'm trying to white phantom the spot now since my Ornstein's AI broke. riznar fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 04:34
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Ornstein's buttslam has a much smaller radius, and does less damage (or at least it does less damage at the same distance out since the overall size of the attack is smaller). Also, Super Ornstein's attacks can be blocked easily so long as you're watching out for the hugely-telegraphed grab and projectile (and butt slam obviously), and if you don't want to block, you can just dodge underneath his legs to be safe from everything he does except the butt slam and grab. Hell, if you're underneath his legs and just barely behind him, you can even attack him during his attack animations with virtually no threat to your well-being (again, so long as you're aware of the grab and butt slam). For whatever reason, Smough is not large enough even in super form to run under. Also, he crushes blocks easily, so you're forced to dodge basically everything he does. He might be slow, but he gives the player a lot less options defensively, and he hits so hard that the punishment for a single mistake is much higher. Those factors, to me, make him a harder boss. They both give you huge openings and have glaring weaknesses in Super form, though, so really it's the easiest part of the fight by far no matter which one you choose to save for last. I'd just argue that Super Orn is simply easy, while Super Smough is easy but more punishing if you gently caress up. lesbian baphomet fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 04:39
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^^^When he jumps back before doing the stab(grab), just roll towards him and he can't hit you. Alternatively, just get stabbed at the same time as another phantom, for whatever reason that causes it to do no damage.Heavy neutrino posted:Not sure what you're saying; both Ornstein and Smough have the exact same buttslam move. You have no idea what you're talking about. Smough's buttslam has a wider blast radius. I sunbro AL all the tiime, usually naked for the boss battle. It takes two flips to get out of Smough's buttslam and a half second jog and a single flip to evade Orn's Also, Smough has more than one move that can attack right in front of him, whereas O has only the buttslam that's easier to dodge. Ornsteing you can dodge all but the buttslam with a forward roll. Smough has a balls buttslam as mentioned, and a move or two that can be dodged with a sideways roll, and one or two you can dodge with a forward roll. The only time I can see the argument for fighting Smough is if you cheese with range and a pillar, or you only use stabbing weapons. Nasgate fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 04:48
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Out of boredom, I was going through the old trailers, and I came across this one. Interestingly, they're using the Elite Cleric's set in it. It's probably meaningless and the footage was taken on a developer's kit version, but still, felt it was worth pointing out.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:53
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Nasgate posted:^^^When he jumps back before doing the stab(grab), just roll towards him and he can't hit you. Alternatively, just get stabbed at the same time as another phantom, for whatever reason that causes it to do no damage. I mean I suppose it would kill you outright if you were running around with less than full health during the boss fight, but then I'd have to wonder what the gently caress you're doing running around with less than full health during a boss fight. Nasgate posted:The only time I can see the argument for fighting Smough is if you cheese with range and a pillar, or you only use stabbing weapons.
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Jul 19, 2012 04:56
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Well, I stand corrected on the rear end slam. I still think Ornstein is a lot harder though as he gives you much less of an opening, has a weird combination of long rear end windups and extremely quick attacks that makes him really hard to roll dodge (it's true that you can't really shield block Smough, but why in heavens would you try to -- his attacks are pathetically slow and you get much more time to beat on him by dodging his attacks with a forward roll) and unlike Smough he seems to respond instantly to you getting in melee range with either the rear end slam, the grab or a backstep. His jump-spear attacks that hit you from half the room away make it hellishly hard to find space to Estus back up, and his combos go on forever. It might be because I always play dodgy characters with <25% encumbrance, but I've had much less of an issue with Smough.
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Jul 19, 2012 05:17
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Ornstein has a deceptive attack range, which I think is what intimidates a lot of people against him. He has a long attack range and his dashes can make him a pain to escape from, so people fighting him in the way that you'd traditionally fight the Big Scary Guy are giving themselves a much harder time than they need to. For a new player who isn't phantoming beforehand or taking hints from another source, Smough is naturally going to be a much easier fight just because he's nothing new, strategy-wise. You have to be confident fighting Super Ornstein -- if you're right next to him or under him, he's nearly harmless and can be attacked almost constantly. Once you understand how to do that, he becomes very easy, since it becomes more about staying below his spear's minimum range than reacting to and avoiding his actual attacks. All you really need to watch for are two specific special attacks that are pretty obvious. Overall, the strategy for Super Orn is pretty similar to the strategy for Four Kings: stay close, keep attacking, watch out for the area attack and grab. He's just a lot less punishing and difficult than the 4K themselves, though to be fair, he's also basically the first time a lot of players will encounter a boss that demands that sort of change in their playing style. lesbian baphomet fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 05:34
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^HeavyNeutrino^ don't run away to heal, either heal right after dodging his butt slam, or chug that estus with your head in O's nuts. ^^Moonwalk^^ I think it's pretty awesome that the giant spear wielding guy;s weakness is close range, since that's the actual weakness of spears. Mighty Dicktron posted:Out of boredom, I was going through the old trailers, and I came across this one. Interestingly, they're using the Elite Cleric's set in it. God I wish that darkwraith with two claws was a starting class, that would have been the coolest option. I was also just watching trailers and just realized that the thumbs up animation in the Prepare to Die DLC trailer was also in the original announcement trailer. It also got me thinking about who had the job to play through the game with different characters and attempt to die in the most epic ways possible for these trailers?
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Jul 19, 2012 05:40
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Mighty Dicktron posted:Out of boredom, I was going through the old trailers, and I came across this one. Interestingly, they're using the Elite Cleric's set in it. I really hope Prepare to Die/the DLC adds the Elite Cleric armor, because I so want it but don't want to hack my poo poo for it.
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Jul 19, 2012 06:09
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They'll probably add it in officially along with Magesmith armor. Well hopefully anyway.
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Jul 19, 2012 06:30
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I'm hoping for more gestures to spam.
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Jul 19, 2012 06:45
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HOLY poo poo, after nearly 200 hours total I finally encountered my first working Gravelord. The Black Phantoms didn't even spawn until the red eye orb just happened to pick a Gravelord who is Gravelording. Pyromancy seems to make the Tower Knight into a crispy little bitch  and the Balder Knight is just like any other Balder Knight and can't hit you if your on the stairs lower than him and constantly interrupting attacks.
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Jul 19, 2012 08:20
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I've been playing around with Iron Flesh on my 'Supertank' character, and despite the slow movement it's actually pretty fun. My guy is rocking the Steel Armour with Black Iron hands and Feet, so while I'm heavy as gently caress, I've got solid poise and with the RoSP I barely take any damage from hits. With Iron Flesh Activated, I don't even get pushed back at all, even from powerful Boss Attacks. It's downgraded Titanite Demons from 'annoying' to laughable, shrugging off attacks that would have drained huge stamina before. I'm not sure how well this strategy will serve me when I get to O&S, but I guess that's what summons are for.
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Jul 19, 2012 08:28
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So I've been working my way through the beginning of the game and I'm currently at the Undead Burgh and I'm simply wondering when I can start getting some new armour for my wanderer? I've seen the chainmail set from the first merchant but I haven't found anything else yet.
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Jul 19, 2012 09:03
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The chainmail isn't the only armor available, but the other armor you'd have to go out of your way to get - since you don't know the game very well as of yet, that's pretty much impossible. At this very moment, the chainmail set is an upgrade to your current wanderer set - it's still light as hell but it has better poise than the 0 that the wanderer set has. If you've noticed you get staggered when you get hit and that's annoying as gently caress, the chainmail set should help with that. After you ring the first bell, you'll have much better access to armor, including the Elite Knight Armor, Balder Armor (Albeit without kickass cape), the Adventurer Armor when you get to the merchant who sells it, and the Eastern Set (Which is probably light enough to keep you in a high-speed build if you have enough endurance; it's only about 5lbs heavier than the Chain set), and the Stone Set (Which has huge poise but is heavy as hell). Those last two will require a 20k soul investment OR killing an optional miniboss to get to them, though, but you'll need to go to that area eventually anyway.
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Jul 19, 2012 09:13
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Dr Snofeld posted:What's the name of that psychological phenomenon where it's extremely hard for a person who understands something to comprehend how it might be hard for someone? You know, like how multiplication is second nature for pretty much everyone but we all had to spend weeks learning it at some point in our lives? Because it's weird finishing off, say, Queelag, with no problems, and remembering that she took me at least six tries my first time around, and I nearly snapped my Dual Shock 3 in half in frustration at the time. Not to mention Sen's Fortress. I remember how I found Pinwheel on accident (maybe at SL 15 or so?, I don't remember), no flasks or Souls to heal, and just dominating his rear end, never knowing what sort of bad poo poo could happen to me in that fight. This was on a fatty knight character that absolutely hated the Catacombs because of pesky... everything. Edit: and I do realize that Pinwheel is absolutely easy, but after having been dying a million times running through the Catacombs in my first playthrough, I had a very big "gently caress yeah" moment when I cleaned his clock. Mr. Doom-Baddy fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 09:15
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While stats and equipment are important, take heart that this isn't really Diablo or something where you're going to be getting loot all the time. Aside from a few weapons and items here and there, most of the armor and weapons in the game come from a random corpse in a random corner of a random room somewhere and there's exactly one set per playthrough. You can get through the game with practically any armor (rings are more important though), though if you've found it, occasionally switching out can soften the blows a little (such as poison resist gear for Blighttown). Don't really worry about getting new armor. Also bear in mind that except for certain (imo) rather gimmicky sets of armor and build combinations, you're not going to really want to rely on your armor absorbing blows for you. That's what your shield, and more preferably, dodging is for. Upgrading your shield and weapon and learning to dodge is bounds to be orders of magnitude more useful that getting new armor. Unless you just find your armor ugly, in which case look at the Dark Souls wiki and peruse the walkthrough around the burg and you should be able to find a set sooner or later to change into.
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Jul 19, 2012 09:17
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What Jsor says is 100% true, for any and all new players. Literally everything in this game is viable for PvE. You can beat the game without ever switching out of Scimitar+Wanderer Set if that's how you want to go through it; just keep current on upgrading them and they'll serve you well for that. You only hit any snags when you get to PvP, but that's not something you need to worry about too much until you're more experienced. However, there's a caveat to the "anything can work" rule there. That is that, while anything can work, you might not have the skills required to make it work. That's where knowing what actually makes a given item good comes into play. Poise is one of those things - that's THE most important stat on any given armor piece, followed by resistances. Likewise, stability is the most important stat on any shield, followed by how much it blocks (You want a higher number for physical blocking, etc). For weapons it's a little different, since they don't tell you how much poise damage those do or anything like that, but a rule of thumb is that you can make any weapon work for you if you keep it as upgraded as you can. With weapons, your main focus should be looking at their movesets and whether you like them, followed by the scaling on the weapon - the higher the letter grade, the more damage the weapon gains from your relevant stats. Once you get good at dodging, parrying, backstabbing, and other key concepts of the game, though, things like poise and stability stop being nearly as important, and what becomes important is whether or not you like the items you've got and want to wear or wield them. You want to develop the skills to avoid taking hits in the first place, and once you've done that, you don't need things like poise or stability, although it's still a good idea to keep a decent shield on you just in case. Shima Honnou fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 09:29
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Jsor posted:Unless you just find your armor ugly, in which case look at the Dark Souls wiki and peruse the walkthrough around the burg and you should be able to find a set sooner or later to change into. Thanks for answering my question so quickly, Shima and Jsor. EDIT: The Elite Knight set looks pretty drat ballin' and if I'm not mistaken it's the armour set that is used in the promo material and on the front of the game box. Sylphosaurus fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 09:35
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Shima Honnou posted:However, there's a caveat to the "anything can work" rule there. That is that, while anything can work, you might not have the skills required to make it work. That's where knowing what actually makes a given item good comes into play. Poise is one of those things - that's THE most important stat on any given armor piece, followed by resistances. Likewise, stability is the most important stat on any shield, followed by how much it blocks (You want a higher number for physical blocking, etc). For weapons it's a little different, since they don't tell you how much poise damage those do or anything like that, but a rule of thumb is that you can make any weapon work for you if you keep it as upgraded as you can. With weapons, your main focus should be looking at their movesets and whether you like them, followed by the scaling on the weapon - the higher the letter grade, the more damage the weapon gains from your relevant stats. Honestly, for shields I find passive effects more important than anything. Grass Crest Shield 4 Lyfe.
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Jul 19, 2012 09:40
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Just so you know, magic (Pyromancy, Sorcery, and Miracles) are on a sort of charge system, similar to older versions of D&D or the first Final Fantasy game on NES. You get a set number to use until you rest at a bonfire - in the case of a Pyro's starting fireball spell, you get 8 charges. The advantage to pyromancy is that you never need to raise any stat other than Attunement to use it, though, the scaling (Called MagAdjust when it's a spell) is all done straight off the pyro flame. This actually makes pyromancy a good backup for a melee fighter, not to mention it has some decent buffing spells. The pyro starts with an axe that has a two-swing combo, a decent weapon, but if you find you don't like it the Undead Male Merchant in the Burg sells a variety of weapons, including the scimitar that wanderers start with, a dagger that sorcerers start with, a shortsword that hunters start with, a rapier, a spear, and a reinforced club - which looks like a baseball bat with nails in it You also have immediate access to the Estoc, the Falchion and Murakumo (Via skeleton drops in the graveyard, pretty rare though and they're hard to kill at the beginning), the Zweihander, the Winged Spear, and the Morningstar, if you find those particular items - just gotta explore and possibly take some risks to do that. But, what's Dark Souls without risk? EDIT: Sylphosaurus posted:EDIT: The Elite Knight set looks pretty drat ballin' and if I'm not mistaken it's the armour set that is used in the promo material and on the front of the game box. Yes it is, the Elite Knight is sort of the mascot for Dark Souls. You'll also notice that your friend in the Asylum wears it. You can find his shield and sword later if you explore enough or look it up, although it might take a bit of "convincing" to get both of those particular items. Shima Honnou fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jul 19, 2012 |
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Jul 19, 2012 09:46
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