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Denethor was awful too. A real shame too because Sean Bean's Boromir is probably the best performance and the best written character in the movies.
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Jul 22, 2012 04:22
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Vigilance posted:Denethor was awful too. A real shame too because Sean Bean's Boromir is probably the best performance and the best written character in the movies. Denethor was awesome! The best thing about ROTK. I seem to remember from somewhere (Tolkien's Letters?) that Faramir in the book is quite literally Tolkien's voice or "Mary Sue" in that story. (not really Mary Sue since Beren is his Mary Sue character).
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Jul 22, 2012 04:49
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FrakkinCylon posted:I may be alone in this sentiment, but I really liked David Wenham in the role. I'm astonished that people pay him real money to appear in films.
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Jul 22, 2012 08:48
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I was really annoyed the first time I saw how movie Faramir acted, but after watching the extras I did see their point about it destroying the menace of the ring if Captain Smug announced he wouldn't pick it up if he found it on the ground.
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Jul 22, 2012 11:40
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bitterandtwisted posted:I was really annoyed the first time I saw how movie Faramir acted, but after watching the extras I did see their point about it destroying the menace of the ring if Captain Smug announced he wouldn't pick it up if he found it on the ground. Also that literally everyone in Gondor loves him, speaks ill of Denethor since they prefer Faramir, Faramir kicks all kinds of rear end every time he is onscreen, refuses the ring straight up, and then for some reason Denethor does not like him. It would be confusing to a film audience as to why Aragorn and not Faramir should be King.
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Jul 22, 2012 17:28
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That's a fascinating angle. I'll never be able to unsee that about Faramir now.  I can see why they did what they did in the movie, though: to make him Boromir's opposite, arc-wise. Boromir started out seeming like a stand-up guy who gradually got more and more creepy and then finally broke. Faramir is introduced seeming like an rear end in a top hat but he then eventually comes around and becomes a sympathetic character. Maybe the screenwriters thought the Mary Sue thing was too obvious to be plausible on-screen, and/or just too goody-two-shoes.
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Jul 22, 2012 19:25
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Wank posted:Denethor was awesome! The best thing about ROTK. In the movie he just went crazy. In the book he wasn't crazy and had in fact a stronger mind than Saruman because he resisted Sauron. The movie would've been much better if they had shown Denethor saying that he too had a palantir.
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Jul 22, 2012 19:37
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I always thought the whole Captain Awesome thing was to show he was a worthy replacement of Aragorn for Eowyn's affections. But frankly the Romance At The Houses of Healing felt a little forced even in the book. I did always wonder if non-book readers were left confused about Eowyn's lack of closure on her devotion to Aragorn. In the book she was practically at restraining order level but still that subplot never really went anywhere. I love Aragorn! Don't we all, lady. Step aside for your new Elven Queen. Hope you don't harbor any resentment.
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Jul 22, 2012 19:41
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I was able to buy the romance dealie between Faramir and Eowyn in the book because it was a courtship that took several weeks to play out.Wank posted:Denethor was awesome! The best thing about ROTK. I really hated his death scene in the film. The book did it pretty much perfectly; he's seen the armies that Sauron has, he knows that the army laying siege to Minas Tirith is just a fraction of Sauron's power, and that they have nothing to gain by fighting him, so he chooses to die amongst the kings of the past. Movie version? "Oh no, I am on fire! I guess I better run several miles so I can fall to my death from the top of the tallest balcony in the city!" gently caress poetry, gently caress character motivation, screw the written word, people wanna see an old man burning while he falls to his death because that's more "epic." Love the movies but with some scenes, yeah, yeah I get where Chris is coming from.
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Jul 23, 2012 03:25
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I just hate how stupid Denethor seems in the movies. That scene with him eating the grapes and looking disgusting, his death scene, etc. In the books he's nearly as smart and wise as Gandalf and is as much as Aragorn a living representation of the old men of Numenor. Basically he's a huge badass. I didn't at all get that impression from movie Denethor.
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Jul 23, 2012 03:42
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He isn't stupid in the movies, he's just an rear end in a top hat. I'm glad I don't watch movies with most of you.
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Jul 23, 2012 04:43
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I haven't read the books since I was a teenager so I only remembered basic details of the story. So from a only knowing the non-Fellowship characters by the movie standpoint, Denethor came off as an insufferable chump. I couldn't at all buy that this guy was somehow masterminding running this huge city that was keeping the hordes of Mordor away from the rest of the planet. The actor playing Theoden was very convincing as someone slowly realizing the odds were against him but still wanted to go down fighting, so Jackson could handle getting this sort of performance, but Denethor, I just didn't understand why anyone was tolerating him at all in any scene.
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Jul 23, 2012 04:46
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Geekboy posted:He isn't stupid in the movies, he's just an rear end in a top hat. He's stupid and an rear end in a top hat in the movies. I just remembered another really dumb Denethor moment in the movies. Him refusing to light the beacons to signal for help.
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Jul 23, 2012 06:42
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I thought it was quite clear that Denethor got increasingly insane and was more concerned with keeping himself and his bloodline on a throne he's merely keeping warm. It isn't verbatim with the books, but that doesn't mean it's a bad reinterpretation of him.
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Jul 23, 2012 13:47
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Szmitten posted:I thought it was quite clear that Denethor got increasingly insane and was more concerned with keeping himself and his bloodline on a throne he's merely keeping warm. It isn't verbatim with the books, but that doesn't mean it's a bad reinterpretation of him. It's a bad reinterpretation because it doesn't tell how he got crazy. In the books he got increasingly depressed because he was mind dueling with Sauron on a regular basis. In th book he's just an insane rear end in a top hat, in the books he's a good guy worn down by the enemy and his actions though wrong are understandable.
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Jul 23, 2012 15:23
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Alhazred posted:It's a bad reinterpretation because it doesn't tell how he got crazy. In the books he got increasingly depressed because he was mind dueling with Sauron on a regular basis. In th book he's just an insane rear end in a top hat, in the books he's a good guy worn down by the enemy and his actions though wrong are understandable. The movie keeps enough of the plot in his dialouge that im pretty sure they were planning on the Palatir reveal. Denethor repeatedly makes reference to not being blind, and knows of Aragorn before anyone could have told him.
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Jul 23, 2012 17:27
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Out of all the major characters in the films Denethor was certainly the one that could've benefited from a little more screen-time, with Faramir running a close second. I'm also one of those geeks who was aching when they heard about the cut Aragorn-Annatar duel that got replaced by a giant troll out of nowhere. It just would've capped off Aragorn's story so well!
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Jul 23, 2012 17:38
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There is a new Hobbit production video, not sure if there is a non-facebook version yet though : http://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ
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Jul 23, 2012 17:41
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Nilbop posted:Out of all the major characters in the films Denethor was certainly the one that could've benefited from a little more screen-time, with Faramir running a close second. I'm also one of those geeks who was aching when they heard about the cut Aragorn-Annatar duel that got replaced by a giant troll out of nowhere. It just would've capped off Aragorn's story so well! Haha me too, it would be he single most changed thing from the books, but gently caress it Aragorn vs Sauron would have owned.
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Jul 23, 2012 17:44
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Oasx posted:There is a new Hobbit production video, not sure if there is a non-facebook version yet though : http://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ I'm always amazed that I can enjoy these production videos more than most actual tv shows or movies. They're just so incredibly well done and have so much heart and care put into them.
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Jul 23, 2012 18:23
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Oasx posted:There is a new Hobbit production video, not sure if there is a non-facebook version yet though : http://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ This is the best one yet, those sets are beautiful. Dale and Beorn's house are going to be amazing on the big screen.
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Jul 23, 2012 18:26
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Vid 8 is now on the tubes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1IqqN2yaZw
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Jul 23, 2012 18:30
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Only thing that kept bugging me in the video is how the Dwarves' nose prosthetics are so rigid. I can see that coming off at limiting their expressions enough that it bothers me on screen when they're so prevalent.
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Jul 23, 2012 18:30
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Oasx posted:There is a new Hobbit production video, not sure if there is a non-facebook version yet though : http://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ THEY SHOWED THE GIANT! THEY SHOWED THE GIANT! HOLY poo poo! HOLY poo poo! EDIT: Rest of the vid was pretty great, too. It didn't have much of a theme so it was kind of a organized mess, but it feels like that's what the final days of shooting was like so I'm cool with it. SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 18:34
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Oasx posted:There is a new Hobbit production video, not sure if there is a non-facebook version yet though : http://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ Didn't realize Comic Con showed an exclusive new trailer for the movie, until I saw this. When is the rest of the world going to get to see that trailer?
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Jul 23, 2012 19:21
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I said come in! posted:Didn't realize Comic Con showed an exclusive new trailer for the movie, until I saw this. When is the rest of the world going to get to see that trailer? New trailer coming in September. However, the comicon footage was something different (it was 12 minutes of footage from the film) and probably won't be released to us. Anyway, that production video was unbelievable. So much new stuff shown. Dale looks incredible. Not sure how I feel about the design of the Stone-giant though, although I must admit he was definately a giant and also definately a stone, so I dunno what I was expecting really. Edit:  I loved this bit:  Mr. Gibbycrumbles fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 23, 2012 |
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Jul 23, 2012 19:39
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Guess who turned into a sobbing baby at the Brazilian guy who was SO STOKED to be at Comic Con. Why the hell is it not December yet?
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Jul 23, 2012 19:58
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Interesting that they built such a big set for an intact Dale. I guess they must have a lot of interpolated stuff happening there in pre-dragon times - Tolkien didn't write much about that, so that'll be new land. (Presumably it's not for fully rebuilt Dale long after Smaug's death.)
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Jul 23, 2012 20:07
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I wonder who they blurred out towards the end when Peter says his speech.
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Jul 23, 2012 20:10
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Btw - that Elf woman in my earlier post - is that Tauriel? She fits the bill (red hair), but I can't tell if that's Evangeline Lilly or not...
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Jul 23, 2012 20:12
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:I loved this bit: Hahahah that is all sorts of 
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Jul 23, 2012 20:22
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Oasx posted:I wonder who they blurred out towards the end when Peter says his speech. That last scene seemed to be between Ian McKellen and Sylvester McCoy, so I'm guessing the big brown blur was Radagast.
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Jul 23, 2012 20:49
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Those shirts that say "Andy's Flying Serkis" are awesome.
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Jul 23, 2012 21:50
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Whoa I just realized something. Are Orcs immortal? They're just twisted elves after all. In the off-hand chance they don't die in combat these hideous beasts live forever right?
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Jul 23, 2012 22:21
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Man I dunno how many times I've told people "duh the stone giants are just a metaphor for the bad weather, silly  " but that big guy there looks pretty cool. I'm okay with it  kiimo posted:Are Orcs immortal? They're just twisted elves after all. In the off-hand chance they don't die in combat these hideous beasts live forever right? I don't think we have much evidence one way or the other. You could say "they're elves after all and probably inherited the immortality" but also just as well claim "they obviously lost physical stature and intelligence so the immortality probably went too".
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Jul 23, 2012 22:27
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I'm not sure it's addressed directly but didn't at least Azog live for a long, long time?
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Jul 23, 2012 22:28
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kiimo posted:Whoa I just realized something. Tolkien says in Morgoth's Ring: quote:They could be slain, and they were subject to disease; but apart from these ills they died and were not immortal, even according to the manner of the Quendi; indeed they appear to have been by nature short-lived compared with the span of Men of higher race, such as the Edain. However, there are a few passages in his novels where it is alluded that some orcs have had rather long lifespans, e.g. Azog was killed at the Battle of Azanulbizar in 2799, while his son Bolg was killed at the Battle of Five Armies in 2941. Thus, Bolg was at least 140 when he was slain.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:36
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In the LOTR movies it was definitely a thing that the orcs had a short shelf life and were falling apart towards the end. I don't remember if it was supposed to be all the orcs or just the Uruks, though.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:53
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It's so awesome that they threw us this little bone in the diary. PJ knows how to keep the fans happy.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:59
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That giant looks amazing, I had completely forgotten that section of the book and now I'm absolutely stoked to see it.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:09
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