Chinese Tony Danza posted:There is, but Duke Plus doesn't have sprites for the new weapons, only models. It's pretty stupid, especially considering the HRP models look like dog poo poo. I really hate how Duke Plus practically requires HRP. Maybe somebody could take screenshots of the weapon viewmodels, and turn them into sprites?
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Jul 28, 2012 03:38
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Jul 28, 2012 23:05
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For a moment there I thought someone had made an RLDoom to complement DoomRL. 
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Jul 28, 2012 23:43
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Holy poo poo and I just defeated Ms The Jerk for the first time:
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Jul 28, 2012 23:49
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Toast Museum posted this in a photoshop thread and some people said they wanted to play it.
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Jul 29, 2012 05:53
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ToxicFrog posted:For a moment there I thought someone had made an RLDoom to complement DoomRL. RLDoom would be loving awesome. 
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Jul 29, 2012 07:17
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misterdoo01 posted:RLDoom would be loving awesome. I've thought this too, but what could you do to make it hard? Since nearly every enemy can be cheesed through a door in some way I'm not sure how you could make it difficult and still have random layouts and stuff. Maybe I'm not creative enough.
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Jul 29, 2012 07:22
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misterdoo01 posted:RLDoom would be loving awesome. I sound dumb as hell. What's the distinction between RLDoom and DoomRL? One of them is the Rogue-like, but what's the other?
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Jul 29, 2012 08:37
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Mak0rz posted:I sound dumb as hell. What's the distinction between RLDoom and DoomRL? One of them is the Rogue-like, but what's the other? Well...DoomRL is a Rogue-like with a Doom theme. I assume that means RLDoom would be Doom with a rogue-like theme. You know, first-person but with perma-death and procedurally generated stuff.
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Jul 29, 2012 08:45
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I'm not really sure how it would work either, but it certainly sounds cool. 
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Jul 29, 2012 09:05
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iD software/Valve are going to be doing a bunch of joint panels at Quakecon in Dallas next week(end), might be worth checking out. I've gone to a few panels over the years and they're always really eye opening and extremely interesting/informative. Quakecon is free. Also, Carmack is going to be demoing this thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYa8kirsUfg
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Jul 29, 2012 09:47
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Hadlock posted:iD software/Valve are going to be doing a bunch of joint panels at Quakecon in Dallas next week(end), might be worth checking out. I've gone to a few panels over the years and they're always really eye opening and extremely interesting/informative. Quakecon is free. Yes all signs point to Doom 4 as the "old ip coming back" hinted on twitter, but drat would my inner-child explode with joy on hearing the announcement of a new Commander Keen (or ROTT as others have speculated; modern ragdoll physics coupled with the Excalibat? I'm throwing away my money already). And in other news, the next version of Brutal Doom will feature, amongst other things, the ability to kill enemies with falling damage and kicked gibs. If that last bit in the video is correct, you could potentially decapitate an enemy with the decapitated head of his friend.
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Jul 29, 2012 09:56
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The Radix posted:Toast Museum posted this in a photoshop thread and some people said they wanted to play it. Holy poo poo! This is great!
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Jul 29, 2012 10:08
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Hadlock posted:iD software/Valve are going to be doing a bunch of joint panels at Quakecon in Dallas next week(end), might be worth checking out. I've gone to a few panels over the years and they're always really eye opening and extremely interesting/informative. Quakecon is free. ChickenHeart posted:Is it just me or has Carmack stopped aging since the late 90's? Speaking of ZDoom WIPs and comedy violence, here's a WIP video from earlier this month (the engine sound is a lot less annoying now) of a unique environmental hazard in a new Reelism map. I should probably work on that mod...
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Jul 29, 2012 10:29
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The Kins posted:Speaking of ZDoom WIPs and comedy violence, here's a WIP video from earlier this month (the engine sound is a lot less annoying now) of a unique environmental hazard in a new Reelism map. I should probably work on that mod... Oh god this looks awesome. Please replace the Internet Machine level with this  EDIT: I mean not that the Internet Machine is super bad or anything. It's just small. I love the freedom of Gutrot Island. EDIT 2: No boss is safe. 
Catalyst-proof fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 12:45
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Fren posted:Oh god this looks awesome. Please replace the Internet Machine level with this  EDIT: Fren posted:EDIT 2: No boss is safe. ☑ Dog Pope ☐ El Cybredemon ☐ Imp Tank ☑ Ms. THE JERK ☑ Player 2 ☐ The ShapeShifter Gotta catch 'em all. The Kins fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 15:15
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Well...DoomRL is a Rogue-like with a Doom theme. I assume that means RLDoom would be Doom with a rogue-like theme. You know, first-person but with perma-death and procedurally generated stuff. We already had a Doom RPG. Maybe something like that. It would be awesome.
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Jul 29, 2012 17:29
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Cream_Filling posted:We already had a Doom RPG. Maybe something like that. It would be awesome. I'm still waiting for a remake of the Doom RPG for PCs. 
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Jul 29, 2012 19:00
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I tried to like the Wolfenstein RPG but that art style is just... just... 
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Jul 29, 2012 19:04
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I've been playing Quake 2 with the Steam KMQuake2/soundtrack fix from the OP in Windows 8 and noticed my mouse acceleration was hosed to poo poo even though I have it disabled in Windows. Apparently, due to the way Windows 7 and 8 implement an old Windows hardware call, you need this registry fix to get 1:1 mouse movement. Just figured this would be helpful for anyone else having the same issue. Also, I've noticed enemies jumping up on crates in single player. I wish modern FPS enemies would try to use the environment like that. 
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Jul 29, 2012 20:01
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Finally got around to starting  A question about the settings: Can anyone tell me what the "collision" setting does under the "N64 Compatibility" section? From the readme I get that it's for accurate collision detection, but all it says is "Collision: On" or "Off." Which setting is which, and which one is the recommended? What are the advantages/disadvantages to each? Semi-unrelated: How exactly does room-over-room works in the Doom engine (be it Doom 64 or through source ports). From what I gather it's just a case of a sort of invisible "elevator" that raises to the upper floor level when you pass a certain trigger, which would explain why it doesn't work when noclip is enabled and that enemies or ally players can't pass underneath it when someone is up there. I'm mostly just curious. Mak0rz fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 30, 2012 |
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Jul 30, 2012 00:11
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Well...DoomRL is a Rogue-like with a Doom theme. I assume that means RLDoom would be Doom with a rogue-like theme. You know, first-person but with perma-death and procedurally generated stuff. Pretty much this. Rather than recreating Doom as a roguelike, create a Roguelike-style TC for Doom. Randomly generated levels and loot, permadeath, level gain, etc. Personally, I would love to play Nethack in first person with a rocket launcher. Mak0rz posted:Semi-unrelated: How exactly does room-over-room works in the Doom engine (be it Doom 64 or through source ports). From what I gather it's just a case of a sort of invisible "elevator" that raises to the upper floor level when you pass a certain trigger, which would explain why it doesn't work when noclip is enabled and that enemies or ally players can't pass underneath it when someone is up there. I'm mostly just curious. Some source ports have built-in support for "true" ROR (with corresponding extensions to the map format). Stuff designed for vanilla doom fakes it in various ways, but someone more familiar with Doom mapping will have to explain how, because the explanations I've read are completely incomprehensible to me. (Fun fact: System Shock, despite having a true 3d engine, used a 2d tile-based map format that didn't support ROR. Instead, they did it by making double-height rooms and then using 3d models for the dividing floors/ceilings. Marathon, meanwhile, had a 2.5D engine with built-in support for ROR, simply by creating overlapping non-contiguous sectors - but while the engine handled it fine, it tended to crash the map editor a lot.) ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jul 30, 2012 |
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Jul 30, 2012 02:21
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Mak0rz posted:Semi-unrelated: How exactly does room-over-room works in the Doom engine (be it Doom 64 or through source ports). From what I gather it's just a case of a sort of invisible "elevator" that raises to the upper floor level when you pass a certain trigger, which would explain why it doesn't work when noclip is enabled and that enemies or ally players can't pass underneath it when someone is up there. I'm mostly just curious. What you seem to be describing is the usage of the bridge object, which is essentially an invisible, solid object of definable size and position. That's what I've got in my map to simulate the Rise of the Triad-style catwalks, and they behave essentially as you've described.
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Jul 31, 2012 05:22
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There are at least 3 ways to make fake 3D rooms in Doom. What Mak0rz is talking about is hard to explain without a diagram, but it looks something like this:  Here you have a hallway with a spiral staircase going up to another hallway above it. It starts off with the floor and ceiling at the level of the bottom hallway, then as you walk over the stairs you hit a trigger point that raises it to the upper floor, or lowers it if you go the opposite way. (Technically I think you need multiple trigger lines.) It works because you can't see the sector as you're triggering it. Another way is to do a teleporter between two rooms, like so:  Then you can walk up the stairs from one room and come out in the one above it. In modern ports you can make a silent teleporter that doesn't reset your position as you walk over the line. Then the third option is to do what Chinese Tony Danza is describing, which involves placing invisible objects that the player can walk over, then faking the visuals with a mesh of vertical textures. The physics for this method won't work in the original Doom, because the sprite collision is 2D.
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Jul 31, 2012 05:50
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These days you can just use 3d floors in zdoom (although it can become kind of a clusterfuck if you want to put much detail in the top floor).
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Jul 31, 2012 08:51
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Komojo posted:There are at least 3 ways to make fake 3D rooms in Doom. A primitive example of the first method you describe is found in Doom II's "Industrial Zone" level. There are sectors that behave both as lifts (the floor lowers) and as doors (the ceiling raises). So if you approach it from a given direction, the floor lowers and opens a passage at your level, then you climb up stairs and trigger the ceiling raising like a door. The problem is that they move back to their original position after a short while, so the trick is too obvious. The Doom wiki references various methods; including portals which haven't been mentioned yet.
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Aug 1, 2012 14:14
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Cat Mattress posted:A primitive example of the first method you describe is found in Doom II's "Industrial Zone" level. There are sectors that behave both as lifts (the floor lowers) and as doors (the ceiling raises). So if you approach it from a given direction, the floor lowers and opens a passage at your level, then you climb up stairs and trigger the ceiling raising like a door. Descent's level format also allowed for portal architecture since space was defined by how rooms linked to each other.
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Aug 1, 2012 14:22
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Segmentation Fault posted:Descent's level format also allowed for portal architecture since space was defined by how rooms linked to each other. This is how Marathon does it, too. The engine allows rooms to clip into other rooms ("5D Space") because of it. Incidentally, abusing this trick would only cause crashes in Forge (the map editor) if you had vertices touching each other. Although actual polygons could overlap each other at will, the vertices of each polygon had to have its own 2d coordinates unless the polygons were supposed to be connected. Moving two disconnected vertices on top of each other confused the hell out of the engine and would often kill the map editor (or the game). Granted, lots of things would crash the editor (haven't saved in a while? crash crash crash), but at least the overlapping bit was usually reliable. Edit for clarity:  This would work just fine in Marathon without any extra effort on the mapper's part, even with all of those polygons at the same elevation. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Aug 1, 2012 |
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Aug 1, 2012 15:12
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I just remembered, Unreal Engine 1 lets you do this too! Here's some example videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwhHneKIjrI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEVSUIECY9Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s4ySkR48cI This is exploited in Yardbomb's Voodoo Shop in The Nameless Mod for Deus Ex to create a room that loops in on itself, but I can't find any good videos showing that off. Now that I think about it, why was it such a big deal that Prey and Portal did portal tech when it existed so long ago right under our very noses? Segmentation Fault fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Aug 1, 2012 |
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Aug 1, 2012 16:39
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Has there been a game that's really done cool things with that sort of weird design and mindfuckery? I know that was the driving basis behind the original Prey and its engine but of course the final game used them much more benignly.Segmentation Fault posted:Now that I think about it, why was it such a big deal that Prey and Portal did portal tech when it existed so long ago right under our very noses? I think it's more the seamless transition that's impressive. They used the Unreal trick in actual levels but they never got rid of that little hitch when you go through it. Instead they dressed it up with other effects so you didn't notice. Also they had to be hard-baked into the world as far as I know.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:44
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Yodzilla posted:Has there been a game that's really done cool things with that sort of weird design and mindfuckery? I know that was the driving basis behind the original Prey and its engine but of course the final game used them much more benignly. So... consoles.  Yodzilla posted:I think it's more the seamless transition that's impressive. They used the Unreal trick in actual levels but they never got rid of that little hitch when you go through it. Instead they dressed it up with other effects so you didn't notice. Also they had to be hard-baked into the world as far as I know.
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Aug 1, 2012 16:56
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Segmentation Fault posted:I imagine some of the more advanced portal tricks might've been too resource-intensive for the 360. The original Prey engine and game design was scrapped waaaay before the 360 was a thing. Segmentation Fault posted:I guess that's true. Though, how come it took so long for us to get smooth portals? Also, why did they end up on engines that used binary space partitioning (id Tech 4 and Source) as opposed to Unreal Engine, which was more accommodating? Dunno. Might just be a coincidence. Human Head is a bunch of ex-Raven dudes and they worked with pretty much nothing but id engines. And of course the Narbuncular Drop team got snatched up by Valve so they used Source.
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Aug 1, 2012 17:02
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I'd argue that BSP engines were more accomodating to the portal technology, and that the portals are actually just new versions of areaportalling that we do for optimization. https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Areaportal for the Source version. But also, I'll admit I have no familiarity with UE so I couldn't tell you if they also do something similar. It probably just came down to whomever had the idea first and the engine they were working in. Prey getting one upped by Portal at the same E3 (or within relatively short time of each other) was a total fluke. Irish Taxi Driver fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Aug 1, 2012 |
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Aug 1, 2012 17:29
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Portal's biggest accomplishments were conceptual, not technological. It's cool enough to be able to walk into a room that looks like it's not actually there or whatever, but making portals portable, and using them to connect a room to itself, and doing physics through them, is a whole other thing.
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Aug 1, 2012 17:38
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Also the "soft walls" of the portal or whatever they called what they had to do to make movement through them smooth so you're not constantly getting stuck on the edge.
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Aug 1, 2012 18:06
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Yodzilla posted:Also the "soft walls" of the portal or whatever they called what they had to do to make movement through them smooth so you're not constantly getting stuck on the edge. That's the sort of thing that you don't even notice as you play; it's implemented so well. One shudders to think how something like Portal would have been handled by another studio.
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Aug 1, 2012 18:19
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RyokoTK posted:This is how Marathon does it, too. The engine allows rooms to clip into other rooms ("5D Space") because of it. I remember the Marathon devs talking about the (fantastic) M2 level The Hard Stuff Rules, and saying that "the Hard Stuff" was not the level itself (which is not particularly difficult) but the process of making it (and, perhaps, what they considered drinking after an entire day of the editor crashing). The level is basically a huge, many-leveled tower, so lots of ROR, and for it to look right it needed lots of overlapping vertices as well - they mentioned that to edit a floor, you basically had to slide the rest of the tower out of the way, saving after each step and praying the editor didn't crash too much. Segmentation Fault posted:Now that I think about it, why was it such a big deal that Prey and Portal did portal tech when it existed so long ago right under our very noses? In Portal's case, a big part of it was the ability for the player to create portals, whenever and wherever they wanted. UE1 and Marathon could do some really neat tricks with portals but it had to be built into the map when it was designed; it wasn't something players could create on the fly.
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Aug 1, 2012 18:53
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Rather Dashing posted:That's the sort of thing that you don't even notice as you play; it's implemented so well. One shudders to think how something like Portal would have been handled by another studio. The thing that drives me nuts about like, quake portal mods, or doom portal mods, is they always shoot a blank textured sphere. That ridiculous Knee Deep in the Dead extended edition has a bit in e1m1 where you see action from another room playing out a camera screen. If they can actually do that in real time, couldn't they use that same method to texture the portals you shoot?
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Aug 1, 2012 19:10
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Red_Mage posted:The thing that drives me nuts about like, quake portal mods, or doom portal mods, is they always shoot a blank textured sphere. That ridiculous Knee Deep in the Dead extended edition has a bit in e1m1 where you see action from another room playing out a camera screen. If they can actually do that in real time, couldn't they use that same method to texture the portals you shoot? Not without a lot more coding to support it as an engine feature. The camera textures in ZDoom are basically the same thing as the camera textures in Duke Nukem 3D in their functionality; but Portal could never have been developed in the Build engine. Besides, it wouldn't even look good, because the camera viewpoint doesn't change with player movement. It's like a TV screen: if you move to the side, you see the same image flattened and skewed, not things that are off to the side of the filmed set. If the viewpoint changed as appropriate, there would be plenty of "hall of mirror" glitches as the dynamic camera moves into a wall.
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Aug 1, 2012 19:23
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Cat Mattress posted:Besides, it wouldn't even look good, because the camera viewpoint doesn't change with player movement. It's like a TV screen: if you move to the side, you see the same image flattened and skewed, not things that are off to the side of the filmed set. If the viewpoint changed as appropriate, there would be plenty of "hall of mirror" glitches as the dynamic camera moves into a wall. To be quite honest most of the 2.5d games look terrible as soon as you start messing with the camera, vertex distortion is a bitch. I'd still take it on the grounds that a huge part of the appeal of portal for me was being able to see where I was going.
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Aug 1, 2012 19:36
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