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The Grimace posted:WOW. I've been playing the game in Story and Arcade mode on Easy to get the hang of things, and I'm only just now actually starting to do well on that difficulty setting- but then I went to try Score Attack, which apparently isn't linked to the difficulty setting. I can barely even get one hit in on the enemy. Don't feel too bad. Basically, Score Attack is to the rest of P4 Arena as Shin Megami Tensei games are to other JRPGs. It's designed to be soul-crushingly difficult.
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Aug 14, 2012 16:50
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There goes all of that self confidence I built up.
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Score Attack is like Blazblue's Unlimited Mars mode, where the difficulty is just a notch over the hardest difficulty. You need to get really good at blocking/evading and punishing because the CPU knows exactly what you're doing and reads it like a book. One thing I don't get about the fighting game community is when people say you don't learn anything by fighting the CPU. Sure, you don't learn mind games which make up a very important aspect of all competitive gaming and I won't dispute that, but if you can beat the CPU in score attack mode and that's how you cut your teeth before going online then you're obviously doing something right. 
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Aug 14, 2012 17:09
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I've only gone through a few of the true endings but: (spoilers for any persona game) The dude at the end isn't named, but I agree with you guys that it's probably Nyarlathotep. Who else could it be, though? Izanami, who was more involved specifically with Shadows and the midnight channel itself? After all, the midnight channel disappeared when she was defeated - if she's still around she could bring it back. The fact that it was a man's voice means nothing. Then again, whoever it is knows about the Kirijo group. Izanami and Nyarlathotep both weren't really involved with any of that stuff. They could have learned about this stuff through Labrys, although the being also seemed to know about Nyx, which Labrys wouldn't know about. There were also some suggestions about a person involved who is a human and can't enter the TV world. I'm not so sure about "Can't". Given what we know so far, and what we know about how Arcsys makes their poo poo, Takaya seems like a good candidate to team up with one of these godly beings. He knows about Nyx, he's been through a lot of this poo poo already, and his plot thread was never resolved since everyone forgot about him for a while when the dark hour disappeared. It's implied that he didn't have long to live anyway, but a godly being could easily help him out with that. He'd also be the kind of character arcsys would love to include in the sequel, since he has a persona already and a style way different from everybody else. Basically, none of the villain candidates I know about would know about Nyx and how they "repelled a god" so they could pretty easily bring in Takaya to resolve that discrepancy. gently caress I'd love Takaya in a sequel even if only for the special interactions vs. Akihiko alone. Spiffo fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 17:16
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Spiffo posted:Spoiler Stuff There's one problem with it being Takaya, the guy mentions he doesn't have a Persona. Which leads me to think of Ikutsuki instead. Yeah I know last time we saw him he was shot and fell off a part of Tartarus, but again divine intervention of sorts could keep him alive, he fits as well - he knows about the Kirijo group stuff and even kept lots of it secret from Mitsuru and was also pretty crazy about Nyx as well. .
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Aug 14, 2012 17:25
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(Persona Spoilers)Pretty sure Takaya is dead. Some people have floated the idea it's that officer that hires Naoto to look into the Shadow Operatives. It could also be someone not in the game at all, of course, but I don't know anyone in P3 or P4 that'd be a good fit for Eerie Voice. Also the Eerie Voice doesn't talk about past stuff the investigation team or S.E.E.S. has done, does it? Also Arcsys doesn't really have anything to do with the story.
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Aug 14, 2012 17:25
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Something to keep in mind: The crazy things that the Kirijo Group were doing are very, very consistent with the horrible things SEBEC was up to. And we know who was ultimately behind THAT.
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Aug 14, 2012 18:05
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Oh, thank god for explaining that about Score Attack.  I've been trying really hard with the Challenges to step up my game, but I'm still having a lot of trouble. Still, I hope to get a lot better at the game. It's a blast, as long as I'm not playing against an opponent that can read my every move like in Score Attack.SA Forum Goons posted:Spoiler Ending Stuff The worst part about all this is we have no idea how long we have to wait until a new game will come along and we can find out the answers. God, I'm too excited already. As for Nyarlathotep, that's my first guess as well- but some things don't add up with him being the Mysterious Voice. I don't think he would have much of an issue working directly with a "human" to reach his own ends. He has done it plenty of times before, and will continue doing it for eternity. Unless he is specifically controlling the human who dumped Labrys into the TV- but we also know that Mysterious Voice is incapable of using a Persona. He may not be able to use a Persona, but either he or his human partner have mind manipulation powers. This could imply that his human friend has a Persona, but then why wouldn't he just send him to enter the television for this experiment? There are just so many ways that this could go that it feels like there's no way to solve this right now. I guess to sum things up... 1. Can't use Persona 2. Is not "human." 3. Is collaborating with a human who may or may not be able to use a Persona 4. Knows secret information about both the Midnight Channel and Nyx Event 5. He (or the human) possess mind control prowess.
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Aug 14, 2012 18:20
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How do we know that the human doesn't have a persona? Did the investigation team / SEES assume so, or was it explicitly said by big bad spirit? Also, Takaya's plot thread is never resolved. The SEES team purposely leaves him alive. What happens to him is never addressed. It's assumed he died because of the whole "has to take persona suppressant drugs" thing, but there are ways around that (either master your own persona, or intervention from a powerful being (the latter is how Yu got his, after all) Cityinthesea posted:Also the Eerie Voice doesn't talk about past stuff the investigation team or S.E.E.S. has done, does it? In Akihiko's story, he says that his skills are impressive, and no wonder he was able to repel a god. This is pretty explicitly referring to their fight against Nyx. The pool of people / beings who are aware of the Dark Hour and the fight against Nyx is probably pretty small, meaning the being is either connected to it, or knows someone who was. Spiffo fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 18:34
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Spiffo posted:How do we know that the human doesn't have a persona? Did the investigation team / SEES assume so, or was it explicitly said by big bad spirit? In at least one of the endings it says something along the lines of "I do not have a Persona and cannot enter the TV."
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Aug 14, 2012 20:08
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DarkHamsterlord posted:In at least one of the endings it says something along the lines of "I do not have a Persona and cannot enter the TV." Oh, well if that's a quote from the mystery human dude then that narrows it down to pretty much just Kurosawa or someone we've never heard of, doesn't it? Also, how many people have joke endings? I've heard people talking about joke endings but I haven't encountered any so far.
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Aug 14, 2012 20:12
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Spiffo posted:
the Eerie Voice is different than the Malevolent Entity, I don't think the Eerie Voice is even in Aki's story. He's only in the Investigation team's stories (minus naoto).
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Aug 14, 2012 20:14
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There are two dudes involved here: Eerie Voice is the guy who kidnapped Labrys. and Malevolent Entity is the being working with EV and seems to be the main instigator. It's interesting to note that ME is voiced by Patrick Seitz.
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Aug 14, 2012 20:21
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Cityinthesea posted:the Eerie Voice is different than the Malevolent Entity, I don't think the Eerie Voice is even in Aki's story. He's only in the Investigation team's stories (minus naoto). The eerie voice is the one that controls labrys, right? I got confused about who you were referring to each time (since neither of them are named) I just theorized it because there aren't any known candidates for the Malevolent Entity that would know about Nyx and S.E.E.S. However, there is a small pool of people from P3 who are aware of the events (Kurosawa and Takaya could have told him, and if it's true that Takaya is ruled out by virtue of his persona, then...) I still want to see Takaya in a sequel though. edit: wait, though. you need a persona to push someone into the TV in the first place. That would rule out Kurosawa, if anything. Spiffo fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 20:23
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Gearhead posted:It's interesting to note that ME is voiced by Patrick Seitz. How come? I checked his history on his wiki page and it didn't list a Persona character or something like I'd have expected, his only series credit seems to be Devil Survivor: OC.
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Aug 14, 2012 20:28
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Technique/education question: what's step one in learning practical meter-burning non-auto combos? Challenge mode? That would be great, but it seems difficult to figure out how damaging they are. Is there a reference someplace that has auto-combo damage compared to some of the challenge mode combos?
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Aug 14, 2012 20:28
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Zombies' Downfall posted:How come? I checked his history on his wiki page and it didn't list a Persona character or something like I'd have expected, his only series credit seems to be Devil Survivor: OC. He's also the voice of Nyarlathothep in the P2 remake. 
Gearhead fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 20:29
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Antillese posted:Technique/education question: what's step one in learning practical meter-burning non-auto combos? Challenge mode? That would be great, but it seems difficult to figure out how damaging they are. Is there a reference someplace that has auto-combo damage compared to some of the challenge mode combos? Challenge mode can definitely help you build a foundation and understand some of the setups, and the Dustloop forums have sections for each character where people have outlined some basic and advanced combos. I don't think they always share how much damage they do numerically, though. For that you'd have to experiment on your own.
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Aug 14, 2012 20:36
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Spiffo posted:edit: wait, though. you need a persona to push someone into the TV in the first place. I just got this game a few days ago and I'm really digging it. I've never played an Arcsys fighter so this is very different for me. Having trouble deciding on which character to learn but that's because I like almost everyone. Leaning towards Akihiko although Chie also looks really fun for rushdown.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:24
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Gearhead posted:He's also the voice of Nyarlathothep in the P2 remake. He also voiced Philemon in the P1 remake.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:29
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The Dirtyness posted:I've been playing through Persona 4 again for the past few months and unless something has changed in Arena I don't think this is the case. Namatame doesn't have a persona - he doesn't face his other self after you defeat his shadow. He was given the potential by Izanami, though, and had he been more aware of what he was doing he totally could have used a persona. Probably. Yu and Adachi could without a fuss. Everyone else only got that ability when they got personas, and they were pretty explicit about the whole "now that I have a persona, I can go in like you can" thing. The whole Namatame thing was handled pretty sloppy, frankly. It would have been cool if he summoned a persona in order to "save Nanako" rather than that fakeout last boss fight. All the themes and concepts they left half-explored is a discussion for another thread though. Point is he was going crazy so he never got the chance to summon one, otherwise his situation was the same as Yu's and Adachi's - they never faced their other selves either.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:31
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Spiffo posted:The eerie voice is the one that controls labrys, right? I got confused about who you were referring to each time (since neither of them are named) Also, it's probably not canon but in the Persona 3 novel it's implied he was the one that told Mitsuru's grandfather about the shadows and guided him to instigate the Fall. As for Labrys being put in the TV, she herself has a Persona so I'd imagine she could literally be tossed in regardless of who's tossing her. So how do you unlock more title options? I barely have any more than I started with. Ham Ham Ham will have to do for now.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:31
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posting up a storm here but I just wanted to add:Hitlersaurus Christ posted:As for Labrys being put in the TV, she herself has a Persona so I'd imagine she could literally be tossed in regardless of who's tossing her. edit: and in fact your post completely disassembles the logic behind my theory edit2: my online title is Furious Action After Midnight AWWWW YEEAAAAH!! Spiffo fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 21:34
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Antillese posted:Technique/education question: what's step one in learning practical meter-burning non-auto combos? Challenge mode? That would be great, but it seems difficult to figure out how damaging they are. Is there a reference someplace that has auto-combo damage compared to some of the challenge mode combos? I'm not that great at fighting games so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt, but for nice B&B combos I look at the basic auto-combos and try to see if I can make additions or permutations to it. Like with Chie's basic combo, after the 2nd A I add a 5B, 2B, and 5C before going into Rampage then adding a C Black Spot after Skull Cracker then going for the God's Hand. I don't know any references for damage, I just experiment and go for the idea that any damage is good damage.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:35
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Also, it's probably not canon but in the Persona 3 novel it's implied he was the one that told Mitsuru's grandfather about the shadows and guided him to instigate the Fall. The damndest things can be canon, Labrys herself has a stray mention in a single track of a drama CD before this game.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:35
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Gearhead posted:The damndest things can be canon, Labrys herself has a stray mention in a single track of a drama CD before this game. Well, at least we know Trinity Soul isn't canon since the games already contradict it. If it was Akihiko couldn't be part of the Shadow Ops, not to mention we've seen adults summon personas. (Yes, adults not being able to use personas was a thing in Trinity Soul. It was kind of pretty terrible aside from the kickin' rad soundtrack from the Gurren Lagann/Soul Eater guy)
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Aug 14, 2012 21:41
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Well, at least we know Trinity Soul isn't canon since the games already contradict it. If it was Akihiko couldn't be part of the Shadow Ops, not to mention we've seen adults summon personas. (Yes, adults not being able to use personas was a thing in Trinity Soul. It was kind of pretty terrible aside from the kickin' rad soundtrack from the Gurren Lagann/Soul Eater guy) You need to re-check Akihiko's true ending. He goes back to college to become a cop, even hoping to work his way up the ranks Although it is true that Mitsuru wants him to keep in contact with both so they can pull him into missions. If he loses the ability to summon his persona though she can't really help that, can she?
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Aug 14, 2012 21:44
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I mean, adults being unable to summon persona would contradict Persona 1-4. Aside from the badguy in Persona and like half the characters in Persona 2, Adachi is definitely an adult at least physically and I got the impression Takaya was a twentysomething. Even with the changes between 1/2 and 3/4 (like how only one special person in 3 and 4 can change their persona), that'd be a weird piece of lore to add now.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:51
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Spiffo posted:You need to re-check Akihiko's true ending. He goes back to college to become a cop, even hoping to work his way up the ranks Well, he said cop or politician. Cop is much more likely. However, Trinity Soul specifically has him mention that in the same year as the incident with Nyx (which is never explicitly mentioned aside from saying Personas have been useful in the past) he formed a team with the main character's brother and the guy that was sort of implied to be Ken that was meant to cover up and prevent Personas. Then there's also the fact that Atlus themselves said it wasn't canon in the P3P artbook, so yeah. While we're on the subject, the new Naoto spinoff novel with the robot guy who turns into her motorcycle was almost immediately rendered non canon. P4G spoilers: There's an epilogue that takes place one year after the game's end (same timeframe as the book) and Naoto looks nothing like the design used in the book.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:54
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Zombies' Downfall posted:Even with the changes between 1/2 and 3/4 (like how only one special person in 3 and 4 can change their persona), that'd be a weird piece of lore to add now. Well, in Persona 1 and 2 they are given the power of Persona by Philemon, while in Persona 3 and 4 they aren't given it by anyone, except for the main character in both.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:56
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CharlestonJew posted:I'm not that great at fighting games so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt, but for nice B&B combos I look at the basic auto-combos and try to see if I can make additions or permutations to it. Like with Chie's basic combo, after the 2nd A I add a 5B, 2B, and 5C before going into Rampage then adding a C Black Spot after Skull Cracker then going for the God's Hand. How does one go about figuring this out? Trial and error? Looking at the frame data?
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Aug 14, 2012 22:00
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Well, Nyarlathotep would know all about SEES and the investigation team since he's half of the collective unconscious. Like Philemon, he's always watching. He may have been defeated in Persona 2 and is likely weaker because of it, but he can never be destroyed. If Erebus can regenerate in a single year, then Nyarlathotep probably can as well to an extent. Eh I have my doubts about these things... I think everyone is forgetting that the mysterious people did all of this to get at the Investigation Team and not at the ex-SEES people. I mean Laybris' shadow was doing everything they wanted in drawing the Investigation Team into the TV world and everything got screwed up because no one intended for the Shadow Ops guys to come to Inaba and figure out the TV world. Seems way more likely that it was another Adachi style of cases where the bad guy is going after personal objectives. It just doesn't seem Nyarlathotep's style given his plans in the other games. It's always been larger and more about society as a whole. This time it seems to be entirely personal against the Investigation Team and guiding Laybris' shadow into a situation where it could do the most damage to them and only them just seems unlike other Persona bad guys. Let's also not forget that the bad guys weren't transforming into anyone or anything like Nyarl has done before. It seem to straight up be just an illusion like putting a piece of paper over a tv screen. If Nyarl could just show up and look like someone there wouldn't be a need for Laybris' ability to make illusions. randombattle fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 22:01
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Spiffo posted:I've only gone through a few of the true endings but: (spoilers for any persona game) Wasn't Nyarlathotep involved with the Nanjo group? Which pretty much turned into the Kirijo group later on? Also the person at the end of P4A apparently has the same voice actor as his Persona 2 version in both Japanese and English, kind of much for just a coincidence. FSLink fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 22:09
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randombattle posted:Eh I have my doubts about these things... I think everyone is forgetting that the mysterious people did all of this to get at the Investigation Team and not at the ex-SEES people. I mean Laybris' shadow was doing everything they wanted in drawing the Investigation Team into the TV world and everything got screwed up because no one intended for the Shadow Ops guys to come to Inaba and figure out the TV world. Fair point about him, however, I disagree that it had to be personal. If the motivation was to draw out powerful shadows by reverting personas, the investigation team would be targeted because of their personas, not because of anything personal like revenge. The reason it had to be cruel fighting and suffering for the sake of suffering was because of Shadow Labrys - that was her MO (and one perfectly suited for the real villain). It makes sense to target a group of kids with powerful personas than to target the former S.E.E.S members and risk any further fuckery that comes from the name Kirijo.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:10
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FSLink posted:Wasn't Nyarlathotep involved with the Nanjo group? Which pretty much turned into the Kirijo group later on? Also the person at the end of P4A apparently has the same voice actor as his Persona 2 version in both Japanese and English, kind of much for just a coincidence. The Kirijo group broke off from the Nanjou group and seems to have become more popular and influential. I don't think Nyarlathotep was specifically involved in the Nanjou group. He manipulated Kandori, the head of SEBEC, but the stuff Kandori did was mostly of his own volition. Nyarly just gave him a helping hand IIRC. Also you might wanna fix those spoiler tags.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:16
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Antillese posted:How does one go about figuring this out? Trial and error? Looking at the frame data? http://www.dustloop.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?172-Persona-4-Arena I guess it varies by character, but the Yu Narukami threads I've been looking at have tons of good info and damage numbers for everything. You might as well try all of them, you can copy the damage numbers down yourself while you're learning them if you think it makes a huge difference. Seems to me you have to make a lot of combo decisions situationally, based on spacing or counterhits when you're actually playing, rather than learning the most efficient combo and always landing it.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:17
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Combo damage is shown at the bottom of the combo counter. Tiny white numbers, may be hard to see on a smaller TV.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:26
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randombattle posted:Let's also not forget that the bad guys weren't transforming into anyone or anything like Nyarl has done before. It seem to straight up be just an illusion like putting a piece of paper over a tv screen. If Nyarl could just show up and look like someone there wouldn't be a need for Laybris' ability to make illusions. So I take it you haven't finished Aigis's Story Mode yet? Because the Malevolent Entity flat-out transforms into a Shadow version of Aigis, complete with copying all her moves and her Persona for the final battle of her Story mode. Mind you, this is after Labrys has obtained her Persona and been rendered unconscious, so it can't be relying on her illusion powers to be doing this. And creating Shadow Self duplicates of the protagonists to attack them was part of Nyarlathotep's M.O. back in Persona 2: Eternal Punishment.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:31
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W.T. Fits posted:So I take it you haven't finished Aigis's Story Mode yet? Because the Malevolent Entity flat-out transforms into a Shadow version of Aigis, complete with copying all her moves and her Persona for the final battle of her Story mode. Mind you, this is after Labrys has obtained her Persona and been rendered unconscious, so it can't be relying on her illusion powers to be doing this. And creating Shadow Self duplicates of the protagonists to attack them was part of Nyarlathotep's M.O. back in Persona 2: Eternal Punishment. It does the same thing in Mitsuru's story mode too. And shows up as Chie's shadow in hers as well.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:36
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Antillese posted:How does one go about figuring this out? Trial and error? Looking at the frame data? Trial and error. Also watching a shitton of tournament videos and learning a few things about the moves. It's been linked before but the Dustloop forums are a huge help to anyone wanting to learn more about the game, they've got a thread dedicated to posting hundreds of good Arena matches. I couldn't tell you the first thing about the frame data in this game, after seeing your character do the same moves over and over again you get a good feel for how long the animations last and when you can start making inputs.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:43
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Cityinthesea posted:Well, in Persona 1 and 2 they are given the power of Persona by Philemon, while in Persona 3 and 4 they aren't given it by anyone, except for the main character in both. Well there's still a certain blue butterfly that shows up a lot in 3 and 4  TheJoker138 posted:It does the same thing in Mitsuru's story mode too. And shows up as Chie's shadow in hers as well. Actually, "Shadow Chie" was just another Shadow Labrys illusion, like Nanako in Yu's storyline.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:19
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